Psychics....

Bellefleurs - Raging Tide
Bellefleurs - Raging Tide Posts: 733 Arc User
edited April 2011 in Archer
As an archer, how do you handle them?
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Post edited by Bellefleurs - Raging Tide on
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  • Fiorrello_ - Raging Tide
    Fiorrello_ - Raging Tide Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    shooting them seems to work pretty good

    i like to use the pointy part of the arrow
    patience is a virtue
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Toss a vicious or serrated to drop their retaliation without **** yourself over, metal combo during psy will (or flat out stun/aim low since having blazing up means you'll still do elemental damage through it), and if they're using soulburn, you better interupt it or kite til it wears off.

    This only applies to the ones with mid-teir gear and below. When they start racking up the refines and getting a crazily high soulforce, they change to an opponent that you do NOT fight 1v1 unless you wanna get yourself killed.
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Fiorrello_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    shooting them seems to work pretty good

    i like to use the pointy part of the arrow

    LMAO

    wow.
    Entertaining, but actually it's not that simple.
    What kossy mentioned is true, but I would recommend to have an antistun up when going after a psy.
    They will likely throw a stun at you or have soul of stunning up.
    Also is good to keep as far as you can to better be able to kite them if they get a seal on you or that annoying soulburn.

    Many psys that I've seen this far haven't much strategy outside of that.

    And lucky for archers, the physical immune is easily bypassed with our metal attacks...I hate too say, but many archers do not think to use metal attacks when a psychic throws up phys immune.

    Also, as always, kiting is very important. Some archers say they don't believe in kiting mages/anyone who uses ranged weapons. I say, if you don't believe in kiting, play a different class.
  • Fiorrello_ - Raging Tide
    Fiorrello_ - Raging Tide Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    alright in all seriousness i like to open up with a wings of grace because most psy's seem to think they can oneshot you with a lv59 skill or get you to stun yourself on their soul of stunning.

    after that though a serrated arrow or even a stunning arrow works pretty well. a normal attack or two can hit pretty hard on a black voodooed psy's. after all archers do great spike physical damage.
    patience is a virtue
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Dunno how to kill a highly geared Psy but to survive just run to the SZ b:cute
  • grimreaperhc
    grimreaperhc Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Stun > Normal attacks always worked for me b:puzzled
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  • Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear
    Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    GrimReaperHC wrote: »
    Stun > Normal attacks always worked for me b:puzzled


    they can relfect stuns, and that have that skill that makes them immune to dmg for what is it 10 secs?

    i usually have Winged shell up then use wings of grace, stun, demon QS, fists, spark and more fists

    to try and get max invunrability time if they have thet dmg immune skill up, you have to out last it to win..
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  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    they can relfect stuns, and that have that skill that makes them immune to dmg for what is it 10 secs?

    i usually have Winged shell up then use wings of grace, stun, demon QS, fists, spark and more fists

    to try and get max invunrability time if they have thet dmg immune skill up, you have to out last it to win..

    If you mean Psychicskill23.gif, your metal skills will still do full damage on them (and so will sage frost arrow, if your available metal skills are all cooling off and you have time to be taking a shot).

    And, personally, I would stay 30m+ range on them (so I would not be using fists). I generally assume that if I let a psychic get close to me I have a good chance of winding up dead. I do not think I have ever fought one with full +12 armor though -- if I did, I expect I would be totally outclassed (my own is +5, except for some lower refines on some of my ornaments).
  • Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear
    Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If you mean Psychicskill23.gif, your metal skills will still do full damage on them (and so will sage frost arrow, if your available metal skills are all cooling off and you have time to be taking a shot).

    And, personally, I would stay 30m+ range on them (so I would not be using fists). I generally assume that if I let a psychic get close to me I have a good chance of winding up dead. I do not think I have ever fought one with full +12 armor though -- if I did, I expect I would be totally outclassed (my own is +5, except for some lower refines on some of my ornaments).

    ive only ever done a few close range fun duels, PvP id expect theyd be a bit of a pain lol
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    A well refined psy will have a high chance to seal, which is more annoying than the stun. I'd STA a well-geared Psy first, the fewer shots needed to kill it the better IMO. Do try to stay at max range and be ready to move things get ugly. Freeze is useful against a psy where it would fail against a wiz.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Archers are probably one of the best classes for dealing with psychics due to their range and high physical dph. If they psychic will use some metal skills. Burn a soul of retaliation with quickshot. Kite if they have soul of stunning up or just stun them first. Stay at max range and if you get sealed fall back.

    Alot of R9 psychics are in permanent white voodoo but an R9 bow's attack level is a hard counter to defense levels. You probably can't beat R9 psychics if you aren't R9 yourself but against equally geared psychics archers do well.
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  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    A well refined psy will have a high chance to seal, which is more annoying than the stun. I'd STA a well-geared Psy first, the fewer shots needed to kill it the better IMO. Do try to stay at max range and be ready to move things get ugly. Freeze is useful against a psy where it would fail against a wiz.

    You'd probably end up STAing yourself. I like to have soul of ret up for archers because most are brainless and start out with stunning arrow. Also, if we DO get STA'd, most psys would throw up a psy will purify it and rendering your physical attacks useless.

    Asterelle is correct. Although my soul of stunning lasts for 10 seconds whereas your stunning arrow lasts for 6?
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »
    You'd probably end up STAing yourself. I like to have soul of ret up for archers because most are brainless and start out with stunning arrow. Also, if we DO get STA'd, most psys would throw up a psy will purify it and rendering your physical attacks useless.

    Asterelle is correct. Although my soul of stunning lasts for 10 seconds whereas your stunning arrow lasts for 6?

    archer's stunning arrow is like 3.5 secs (4.5 if sage).. according to ecatomb anyway :P
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  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    archer's stunning arrow is like 3.5 secs (4.5 if sage).. according to ecatomb anyway :P

    Yeah, I just checked also. Seems much longer in actual pk lol.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »
    Asterelle is correct. Although my soul of stunning lasts for 10 seconds whereas your stunning arrow lasts for 6?

    Ya I wouldn't attack a top geared psychic while soul of stunning is up unless I anti stun first. If their stun is only like 5 seconds or so then it doesn't matter as much (though still best if you have anti stun up).
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    if archer stun lasted as long as a roar...well it'd be pretty damn long.
    MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »
    You'd probably end up STAing yourself. I like to have soul of ret up for archers because most are brainless and start out with stunning arrow. Also, if we DO get STA'd, most psys would throw up a psy will purify it and rendering your physical attacks useless.

    Asterelle is correct. Although my soul of stunning lasts for 10 seconds whereas your stunning arrow lasts for 6?

    That's assuming I'd STA someone with Soul of Ret on. A great advantage of archers is probably that they can kill cheaply. Neither STA nor stun costs chi, and have 1/2 the cooldowns of the likes of Soul of Stunning/Soul of Ret and Psy Will. Archers can always kite around to come back when favorable to attempt a kill with normal shots. Psychic Will would potentially mess a BM hard since they are well within your range when cast, but an archer should know better than to keep shooting.

    Archer weakness, other than suck defense, is that their channel times cannot compete with caster channel times. A wizard will seal before an archer can stun or block with WoG due to those having shorter chan times (not only b/c wizards have -chan gear), for example, same with cleric sleep. Hell with -chan gears on, people can disable archers before they can even put up Winged Shell. Archers have to survive until they can get a window of opportunity, this is either before someone has a chance to attack, or between their disable cooldowns.
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  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Alot of R9 psychics are in permanent white voodoo but an R9 bow's attack level is a hard counter to defense levels. You probably can't beat R9 psychics if you aren't R9 yourself but against equally geared psychics archers do well.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 psys can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are.

    And that's not just for archers. There is plain out no class that I can see standing a chance against an r9 psy.

    With SoS, about 1/4 of all your attacks will seal you, not to mention SoR is going to be dealing some pretty decent damage.

    And kiting a psy isn't an easy thing to do. We're talking about what, a 1.5m difference in range? That's one step. In the time it takes you to stop and go through the animation of firing a normal attack the psy would be in range.

    Between insane defense levels, high phys res, and crazy hp from refines, I doubt you could kill a psy before his charm ticked if you were kiting him.
  • Cheze - Lost City
    Cheze - Lost City Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 psys can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are.

    And that's not just for archers. There is plain out no class that I can see standing a chance against an r9 psy.

    With SoS, about 1/4 of all your attacks will seal you, not to mention SoR is going to be dealing some pretty decent damage.

    And kiting a psy isn't an easy thing to do. We're talking about what, a 1.5m difference in range? That's one step. In the time it takes you to stop and go through the animation of firing a normal attack the psy would be in range.

    Between insane defense levels, high phys res, and crazy hp from refines, I doubt you could kill a psy before his charm ticked if you were kiting him.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 wizards can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With stone barrier, they can have over 10k p def and m res selfbuffed.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 sins can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With over 9000 control skills, they can stun lock you for 3 hours.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 archers can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With adv purge, they'll purge you and one shot you.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Barbs can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With r9 armor, they'll have over 40k hp and 80 def lvls and one shot you with arma.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 BMs can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With GOF, they'll zerk crit you for 20k.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Venos can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With pdef, mres break, they'll one shot you for 15k+.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Clerics can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With 30s sleep, they'll 3 spark and one shot you with plume shot.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Cheze - Lost City wrote: »
    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 wizards can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With stone barrier, they can have over 10k p def and m res selfbuffed.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 sins can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With over 9000 control skills, they can stun lock you for 3 hours.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 archers can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With adv purge, they'll purge you and one shot you.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Barbs can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With r9 armor, they'll have over 40k hp and 80 def lvls and one shot you with arma.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 BMs can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With GOF, they'll zerk crit you for 20k.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Venos can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With pdef, mres break, they'll one shot you for 15k+.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Clerics can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With 30s sleep, they'll 3 spark and one shot you with plume shot.

    lol I see you're picking on Fizban too!
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  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Cheze - Lost City wrote: »
    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 wizards can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With stone barrier, they can have over 10k p def and m res selfbuffed.
    An r9 psy can slow their channeling, has more control skills, and can keep up with a wizards DPH. Oh and the same m def selbuffed, not to mention more defense levels, but that's neither here nor there.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 sins can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With over 9000 control skills, they can stun lock you for 3 hours.
    Unless of course SoS procs (which it should about 1/4 of the time at +12). At that point the psy can begin pounding you with attacks, stun you, and drop you. Oh and let's not forget that you may very well kill yourself on their SoV.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 archers can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With adv purge, they'll purge you and one shot you.
    Which would be great if you can get by SoStunning/Retaliation. Then there's the ever looming SoS proc. Then it's just a matter of that LA standing up to a little magic damage.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Barbs can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With r9 armor, they'll have over 40k hp and 80 def lvls and one shot you with arma.
    Tbh I'd like to see this fight. I doubt the barb can win, but it'd be interesting to see if he could lose.

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 BMs can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With GOF, they'll zerk crit you for 20k.
    Seen them lose too much to even explain how to beat them...

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Venos can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With pdef, mres break, they'll one shot you for 15k+.
    Veno? Really?

    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 Clerics can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are. With 30s sleep, they'll 3 spark and one shot you with plume shot.
    lolcleric
    Your a sin ffs, don't even pretend they can't be beaten...

    Responses in red.

    Btw, I was lying for the barb one. I wouldn't want to see the fight, that'd take to long. I'd just like to know the result b:cute
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Responses in red.

    Btw, I was lying for the barb one. I wouldn't want to see the fight, that'd take to long. I'd just like to know the result b:cute

    I've actually seen a few r9barb vs r9psy

    TBH it actually looked like it depended on the players and not just the class. But I will say, an r9 barb can be killed by an r9 psy without too much of a scuffle in some cases.
  • SilverCleric - Lost City
    SilverCleric - Lost City Posts: 1,969 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    they can relfect stuns, and that have that skill that makes them immune to dmg for what is it 10 secs?

    i usually have Winged shell up then use wings of grace, stun, demon QS, fists, spark and more fists

    to try and get max invunrability time if they have thet dmg immune skill up, you have to out last it to win..

    No, is not immune to ALL damage, its just physical damage. (Psychic Will is the name) So your metal skills can still hurt psy's.
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  • Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear
    Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »
    No, is not immune to ALL damage, its just physical damage. (Psychic Will is the name) So your metal skills can still hurt psy's.

    thats why i put a "?" :P

    cheers for the info
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  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Are you insinuating that r9 +12 psys can be beaten in a 1v1 situation? Because you're wrong if you are.

    And that's not just for archers. There is plain out no class that I can see standing a chance against an r9 psy.

    With SoS, about 1/4 of all your attacks will seal you, not to mention SoR is going to be dealing some pretty decent damage.

    And kiting a psy isn't an easy thing to do. We're talking about what, a 1.5m difference in range? That's one step. In the time it takes you to stop and go through the animation of firing a normal attack the psy would be in range.

    Between insane defense levels, high phys res, and crazy hp from refines, I doubt you could kill a psy before his charm ticked if you were kiting him.

    I think you have either jumped to conclusions or made some assumptions or... something....

    So, anyways, Asterelle tanks harpy wraith, how intimidating do you think rank 9 psychics can be for someone like that?

    Second, seal probabilities come from refines, and not from rank 9 gear.

    Third, seals are fine if you kite them when you are sealed, or if they are frozen out of range of you, or if you have seal resistance up or.. you also have some other options.

    Also, a 1.5m difference in range sounds like level 10 winged blessing. If you are fighting a level 101+ character with level 10 skills, I can see how that might be a problem for you.

    And for damage, well.. you might do better if you got a better weapon?
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I think you have either jumped to conclusions or made some assumptions or... something....

    So, anyways, Asterelle tanks harpy wraith, how intimidating do you think rank 9 psychics can be for someone like that?
    Yeah your right, being able to solo a mob is definitely the same as PvP

    Second, seal probabilities come from refines, and not from rank 9 gear.
    Sorry, I suppose I was jumping to conclusions. Here I was thinking that someone that spent $1k on r9 would get it to more than +2 with mirages.

    Third, seals are fine if you kite them when you are sealed, or if they are frozen out of range of you, or if you have seal resistance up or.. you also have some other options.
    Oh for sure, seals aren't the end of the world, but they're darn annoying. If you just ticked a psys charm, then get sealed, then 6seconds of opportunity are gone.

    Also, a 1.5m difference in range sounds like level 10 winged blessing. If you are fighting a level 101+ character with level 10 skills, I can see how that might be a problem for you.
    Didn't know what you were trying to say here. All I was saying was that a psys 28.5m range isn't much less than an archer's 30m range...

    And for damage, well.. you might do better if you got a better weapon?lolwut?

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  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    You know the drill, read what I bleed

    Ok, if you are going to make it hard for me to quote you, then I will not quote you.

    Personally, though, I have 34m range with my bow (and 36m range with my crossbow, if I want to just land a status effect or something). I believe Asterelle has 32m range.

    Also, I can imagine a lot of r9 psychics with +10 refines and not so many psychics with all +12 refines. Some might even have +5 refines. But ok, you do not see how this can be relevant, and I am not sure if I am capable of explaining this to you. Also, full rank 9 means one piece of unrefined gear, and if you refine your rings you cannot wear your rank rings.

    Also, yes, you are right, PvP has a lot of randomness in it that PvE does not have. But... I am not sure how you get from that to an auto-win situation.

    But I will agree with you that seals can be annoying, among other things.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Kiting doesn't mean that you are outranging them and still firing. It means that you are running out of their range while sealed. When the seal wears off you move back into range. This isn't really possible for melee classes to do but is easy for archers who engage near max range.

    High defense levels work very well against normal opponents but they are hard countered by R9 attackers. My JoSD-sharded R9 psychic friend likes to PK in white voodoo with 129 defense level and 3 attack level.

    How well will that do against my 96 attack level and 63 defense level? She has 33 more defense level than my attack level which reduces my damage by 28%... I have 60 more defense level than her attack level which reduces her damage to me by 42%. Psychics dont have any hax pdef self-buff like wizards, mystics, or venos and psychic will only lasts 8 seconds. If psychics cant rely on their defense levels for damage reduction they become squishy very fast.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Miss an opportunity, keep moving and survive til you can try again. That's the whole game of playing archer. Archers don't really need much chi to kill you, but uses chi mostly defensively. That means an archer can go on the offensive again and again as long as his/her defense holds up. Archer vs psy or bm vs psy, for once i'd bet on archer.
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  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Kiting doesn't mean that you are outranging them and still firing. It means that you are running out of their range while sealed. When the seal wears off you move back into range. This isn't really possible for melee classes to do but is easy for archers who engage near max range.

    High defense levels work very well against normal opponents but they are hard countered by R9 attackers. My JoSD-sharded R9 psychic friend likes to PK in white voodoo with 129 defense level and 3 attack level.

    How well will that do against my 96 attack level and 63 defense level? She has 33 more defense level than my attack level which reduces my damage by 28%... I have 60 more defense level than her attack level which reduces her damage to me by 42%. Psychics dont have any hax pdef self-buff like wizards, mystics, or venos and psychic will only lasts 8 seconds. If psychics cant rely on their defense levels for damage reduction they become squishy very fast.

    I don't know what DaKillinator is talking about. If I'm only self-buffed, R9 archers are a pain to deal with. Thankfully, most of them are idiots and don't know how to do anything other than quickshot and auto-attack and stun. (Yes, I'm talking to you Viet. We all know you just farm lowbies all day for your 20k pk kills.)

    And I really hope your R9 psy friend uses dots + soulburn frequently as those aren't affected by atk/def lvls. Or at least switches to black voodoo when you get stunned or something. . .

    I agree with Quilue as well. Archers fare much better against psys than BMs. BMs make me laugh.
  • StormDragoon - Sanctuary
    StormDragoon - Sanctuary Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    The only problem here is that you have to base everything on equal gear. I'd honestly want to see a full r9 +12 archer vs psy, all based on skill.

    If with self buffs only I'd wonder how it would go. Because if archer is buffed and purges psy, there is clearly an advantage. On my personal opinion sometimes that fight will be based on crits because the seal can proc so often you need either luck or a string of crits to win as an archer. As for psy, if damages done to archer are "relatively" low will be based on a crit at 51-60% hp.

    I agree also what everyone said an archer can safely kite a psychic if equally geared as soon as the seal procs and only close in to the offensive when it's safe.

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