Change the rules for INI edits

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  • Cadeal - Dreamweaver
    Cadeal - Dreamweaver Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    The hair is worth a crusade!

    You reminded me of the squirrels from JD with that.

    "I'd die to protect my hair!"
  • Fluxal - Dreamweaver
    Fluxal - Dreamweaver Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    frankieraye wrote: »
    Editing game files has always been against the rules, and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon-

    Nothing personal, but I have always hated hearing this answer from anyone, related to anything. A "thats the way it's always been" attitude has never taken any company to soaring new heights.

    However, in my opinion:

    Firstly, it's not all the aesthetics thats the problem. If they allowed free editing of the ini files, it directly circumvents the usefulness of a makover scroll, which is a paid product, which should definately NOT be allowed. Why would anyone ever buy another makover scroll if they could freely edit the ini files at their leisure? This is not going to happen.

    Secondly, there are always people who are going to take limitations and exclusions to the extreme. If they allowed editing of any ini game files, some people will claim ignorance and modify files that do affect game physics. Balance could quickly get out of control beyond the GM's ability to counteract it. The last thing you ever want in a controlled game environment is loss of control, PWI cannot afford to take that chance.


    On the other hand, if this has been allowed in the China version of the game, then maybe a "We'll look into it" attitude would be more accepted by the PWI community.
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  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Fluxal - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Nothing personal, but I have always hated hearing this answer from anyone, related to anything. A "thats the way it's always been" attitude has never taken any company to soaring new heights.

    However, in my opinion:

    Firstly, it's not all the aesthetics thats the problem. If they allowed free editing of the ini files, it directly circumvents the usefulness of a makover scroll, which is a paid product, which should definately NOT be allowed. Why would anyone ever buy another makover scroll if they could freely edit the ini files at their leisure? This is not going to happen.

    Secondly, there are always people who are going to take limitations and exclusions to the extreme. If they allowed editing of any ini game files, some people will claim ignorance and modify files that do affect game physics. Balance could quickly get out of control beyond the GM's ability to counteract it. The last thing you ever want in a controlled game environment is loss of control, PWI cannot afford to take that chance.


    On the other hand, if this has been allowed in the China version of the game, then maybe a "We'll look into it" attitude would be more accepted by the PWI community.
    Why would editing ini files for appearance affect makeover scroll usefulness?
    You still have to get one if you want to change your appearance even after you edit files.
    Also by that logic, hypers wouldn't have been introduced because it can be argued that they made esotericas obsolete(count how many on your server have never heard of one).

    Anyway...makeover scrolls are DQ reward items, cheap ones too. They are already free.

    Secondly, what imbalancing modifications are you speaking of and why bring them up here? This issue concerns character editing for appearance, not exploitations. Loss of control? What does that mean?
    Why not only ban the modifications that are used as exploitations?
    Example, tiger form can be glitched with claws to make claws usable in tiger form.

    Do they ban tiger form? no. because that isn't whats harmful
    But they do ban using claws in tiger form, because that is the specific harmful act.
    See what I'm saying?
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Secondly, what imbalancing modifications are you speaking of and why bring them up here? This issue concerns character editing for appearance, not exploitations. Loss of control? What does that mean?

    Through INI modifications you can make a character difficult to see or difficult to click on.
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  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Through INI modifications you can make a character difficult to see or difficult to click on.

    I assumed that issue had already been covered.
    Seeing how this can be abused it would make sense to not allow it specifically but as for harmless modifications...I believe they should be allowed.

    It's really not that drastic of an issue anyway, we do have a T filter.
    and those all class fowl pets are used for the same reason, by the logic currently implemented those should be banned too right?
  • Yukkuri - Heavens Tear
    Yukkuri - Heavens Tear Posts: 624 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    frankieraye wrote: »
    The reasoning behind the multi-client rule change was not "to be more like China", but to account for the fact that modifying game files was no longer necessary to multi-client.

    Editing game files has always been against the rules, and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon-

    If I may ask, why not at least add the Advanced Makeover Scroll. Personally, the only change I'd make to my barb can be easily achieved by using such legit item. This is, if the company is so bent over on said rule. I really don't see anything wrong from doing it as long as it's completely reasonable (non reasonable examples are already on this thread).
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  • Bellarie - Raging Tide
    Bellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    frankieraye wrote: »
    The reasoning behind the multi-client rule change was not "to be more like China", but to account for the fact that modifying game files was no longer necessary to multi-client.

    Editing game files has always been against the rules, and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon-


    Then perhaps it's time for the character creation content to be reviewed and modified to allow for more customization. After all, the customization is one of PWI's biggest selling points.
    You could at least suggest it to the devs for us.
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  • Vinat - Sanctuary
    Vinat - Sanctuary Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    frankieraye wrote: »
    The reasoning behind the multi-client rule change was not "to be more like China", but to account for the fact that modifying game files was no longer necessary to multi-client.

    Editing game files has always been against the rules, and I don't foresee that changing anytime soon-

    The "be more like china" analogy was to the removal of the medals (and various other changes which i didn't mention, such as DQ nerf for the non-existent gold farmers in PWI). The multi-client analogy was to the arbitrary rule changes. They're two separate parallels.

    As for everyone wondering "where to draw the line?" Simple: hair, eyes, and colorings. And again I'll compare this to the new multiclienting rule. You can now pretty much effortlessly open as many clients as your computer can handle, but that didn't stop the GMs from coming up with a rule limiting it to 2 clients per individual player (and not even computer). SO still, just because I can open 10 clients on each of my computers, this doesn't mean it's "allowed." If ini editing for hair or eye texture or skin/lip/hair/eye color were to be made "legal" that does not necessarily mean that making super skinny or super fat characters would or should be allowed.

    And ty blood, for letting the trolls know I'm not just a jerk b:kiss For everyone's edification, my repeated ticketing of this one person was more to test the GMs to see if they'd do anything about a heavy cash shopper breaking the rules, because I know a few not so heavy cash shoppers who were contacted in-game by a GM and told essentially "get another makeover scroll and change your character or you will get banned."

    The response I was repeatedly given was "that is head fashion, you can buy it in the boutique by pressing O", to which I had to reply to point out that in the screenshot I sent in, I had the person's view gear screen open, and they had no head fash equipped. Seems that the GMs don't even know the difference between boutique hair and TB or EG hair.
  • Bellarie - Raging Tide
    Bellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The "be more like china" analogy was to the removal of the medals (and various other changes which i didn't mention, such as DQ nerf for the non-existent gold farmers in PWI). The multi-client analogy was to the arbitrary rule changes. They're two separate parallels.

    As for everyone wondering "where to draw the line?" Simple: hair, eyes, and colorings. And again I'll compare this to the new multiclienting rule. You can now pretty much effortlessly open as many clients as your computer can handle, but that didn't stop the GMs from coming up with a rule limiting it to 2 clients per individual player (and not even computer). SO still, just because I can open 10 clients on each of my computers, this doesn't mean it's "allowed." If ini editing for hair or eye texture or skin/lip/hair/eye color were to be made "legal" that does not necessarily mean that making super skinny or super fat characters would or should be allowed.

    This. +666b:sin
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  • Arhil - Heavens Tear
    Arhil - Heavens Tear Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Fluxal - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Nothing personal, but I have always hated hearing this answer from anyone, related to anything. A "thats the way it's always been" attitude has never taken any company to soaring new heights.

    This I agree with x1000.
    Firstly, it's not all the aesthetics thats the problem. If they allowed free editing of the ini files, it directly circumvents the usefulness of a makover scroll, which is a paid product, which should definately NOT be allowed. Why would anyone ever buy another makover scroll if they could freely edit the ini files at their leisure? This is not going to happen.

    Except that it doesn't. You can freely edit a new character for what, 3 days I think it is? After that, you must buy a makeover scroll to make any changes to it. Editing the .ini files doesn't affect this at all, as your character data is still being stored on the server. Editing the file won't do anything unless you get a makeover scroll to make the changes get stored. If anything, allowing ini edits would INCREASE the sales of makeover scrolls from all the people who've wanted to, but didn't.
    Secondly, there are always people who are going to take limitations and exclusions to the extreme. If they allowed editing of any ini game files, some people will claim ignorance and modify files that do affect game physics. Balance could quickly get out of control beyond the GM's ability to counteract it. The last thing you ever want in a controlled game environment is loss of control, PWI cannot afford to take that chance.

    Same thing applies here. There's a lot of checks & doublechecks going on between the server and the clients. Unless you have some magical way of editing the files on PWI's servers, there isn't a whole lot you can change on the client side that's going to affect balance, aside from the already-known issues like flyhacks/bots/etc. which PWI already deals with all the time.

    On the other hand, if this has been allowed in the China version of the game, then maybe a "We'll look into it" attitude would be more accepted by the PWI community.

    And this I agree with as well. It would be nice to see PWI take some initiative and start looking for ways to satisfy their playerbase HERE, rather than simply playing 'follow-the-leader' with the Chinese version.

    Bottom line though, I agree with what everyone else is saying here. "Simple" edits like eyes, hair, etc should be allowed, and "extreme" modifications such as the super-skinny/large should not be.
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  • FateMakerr - Heavens Tear
    FateMakerr - Heavens Tear Posts: 953 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I vote no.

    Why?

    Because there's enough forum QQ already, and "Skinny char QQ" would just be another load to deal with..
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  • Astraea - Raging Tide
    Astraea - Raging Tide Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    i really don't see why they cant just add a simple option in the character creation that allows someone to input HEX codes for certain colors or to allow to a certain extent skin/eye/hair textures.
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  • Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,161 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I vote yes. I don't see the harm. It would be one thing if we had advanced makeover scrolls that allowed changes that right now can only be obtained via editing the INI files... but we don't. lol
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  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It depends on the kind of editing. The game would look pretty ugly really fast if you allow characters with extreme proportions but I don't think anyone really minds earthguard / tideborn hair or eyes.

    Edit: example of what I don't want to see http://i.imgur.com/21dPZ.png
    i want to see those running around =o
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  • sleepcat
    sleepcat Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I don't believe changing character width makes them more difficult to click on. If that were the case, then clicking on a barb in true form or someone on a mount would be much easier. Of course, super skinny characters are still more difficult to see, but the point most people are making is that they're more difficult to click on.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    sleepcat wrote: »
    I don't believe changing character width makes them more difficult to click on. If that were the case, then clicking on a barb in true form or someone on a mount would be much easier. Of course, super skinny characters are still more difficult to see, but the point most people are making is that they're more difficult to click on.

    Have you ever tried clicking on someone riding the ancient boa? A very fat character would obscure the relatively small clickable area you have to target. You wouldn't even be able to see their name if the head is too big.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It depends on the kind of editing. The game would look pretty ugly really fast if you allow characters with extreme proportions but I don't think anyone really minds earthguard / tideborn hair or eyes.

    Edit: example of what I don't want to see http://i.imgur.com/21dPZ.png

    Thats.....disturbing. b:cry
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  • Yukkuri - Heavens Tear
    Yukkuri - Heavens Tear Posts: 624 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    example of what I don't want to see http://i.imgur.com/21dPZ.png

    What a lovely Eldritch Abomination. b:embarrass
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  • Larkray - Dreamweaver
    Larkray - Dreamweaver Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I vote yes. People who have seen me in game know how my character look. Have I been banned? Well I'm still here aren't I? b:chuckle If it really bugs you that much that you don't know how to yourself that you must report others, just message me any time :) Anyway, a friend of mine has literally told a GM in PM about her tideborn hairstyle on her archer, to f*** off that she was not spending money on something as trivial a fix as that, that if they banned her she'd quit. My friend still plays today (this conversation was about 2 months after tideborn release.)
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  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i want to see those running around =o

    Is it wrong of me that I want to see These running around?
  • MistaBwanden - Sanctuary
    MistaBwanden - Sanctuary Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Is it wrong of me that I want to see These running around?

    I vote yes just because I want to see those.
  • Woneo - Harshlands
    Woneo - Harshlands Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Is it wrong of me that I want to see These running around?

    Epic.
  • Jellytoast - Sanctuary
    Jellytoast - Sanctuary Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I vote yes just because I want to see those.

    Agreed. b:laugh
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  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    *bumps*
  • ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver
    ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I can name names of faction leaders on Dreamweaver server that everyone knows has edited their ini files yet nothing has ever been done about it. Its time to start enforcing game rules GMs.
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I can name names of faction leaders on Dreamweaver server that everyone knows has edited their ini files yet nothing has ever been done about it. Its time to start enforcing game rules GMs.

    Umm, if they do that in regards to this, there goes a good 35-40% of the player base
  • Psytrac - Dreamweaver
    Psytrac - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,488 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Umm, if they do that in regards to this, there goes a good 35-40% of the player base
    and that is why they won't
    I'm a guy, not a woman, that is all
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  • Jennalicious - Sanctuary
    Jennalicious - Sanctuary Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Psytrac - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    and that is why they won't

    Which sucks, because if they don't, then what's stopping the rest of us from doing it?

    I agree, either enforce the rule on everyone or no one.
  • sleepcat
    sleepcat Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Have you ever tried clicking on someone riding the ancient boa? A very fat character would obscure the relatively small clickable area you have to target. You wouldn't even be able to see their name if the head is too big.

    Trying to click on boa riders is so depressing. :(
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