Sage skillspammer - possible or fail?

I'll try to answer a bit longer then Olbaze :P But I got some trouble with what you mean. Non-aps, would that mean no-int at all with chill on all the time? And skill spamming = no normal hit at all? Maybe you could make an example build on calculator.

To try to answer:
For some things, dph > aps. Being able to 1 shot mob is really usefull if you grind a lot. Gather, rift, gather, rift, etc is really nice. (but do you grind a lot?) On bosses however, normal attacks are nice cause they don't need mp. Hence, aps build being more relaxed to play. Personally, I wouldn't spam skills on some world boss for like 10min. So wether it's good or not, depends on what you want to do with it. The uber-major downside of not having an aps build, is that EVERYONE will consider you suck and are a total moron before you even started w/e you wanted to do in squad. 90% of the ppl ingame don't look further then aps figure. A person with 4+ aps is automaticly considered awesome, and someone below 2.5 as bad DD at 100+. They will never ask you for your phys att or att lvl. Talking out of personal experience here, if you don't have an awesome aps build, you'll have to proove yourself.

About aps and pk, I always considered dph just as effective as aps. Most seem to be reduced to sleep out of stealth > spark > stun > poke to death. But seal > dragon strike > random other skill if not dead yet works just as fine.

To conclude : play as you like. If you go for non-aps, you must hit really hard. I wouldn't recommand to go totally no -int. It is handy in some situations, even if just to avoid to be kicked out of squads. Personally I balanced dph and aps to a lvl I like. Many 5 aps find it hard to accept a 2.86 aps outdamages them, but it shows dph is also an important factor that is often forgotten.

I agree with Empu. Its a good idea to have some -int gear, but its not the only way Sins can deal damage. We have some very hard hitting skills, especially if they crit. Finding a balance between the two that works for you is the key.

From my experience, there are times when APS and DPH have come in very handy and its definitely worth it to be able to use them both to your advantage.

To provide a bit more light on things, APS really shine when it comes to self healing with Bloodpaint. Before any -int gear, BP really didn't help that much in keeping my sin alive. After just a few pieces of it, I rarely ever need to pot anymore. As for DPH, why worry about mobs even hurting you when you can one shot them with something like Headhunt or Slipstream? (I found it much easier to one shot mobs when I was doing some of the new Earthguard quests just after the expansion came out then it was to actually fight them with auto attacks.) Each one has its uses and I think Empu said it best:

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally I balanced dph and aps to a lvl I like. Many 5 aps find it hard to accept a 2.86 aps outdamages them, but it shows dph is also an important factor that is often forgotten.

Indeed b:avoid

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Why do you have to be sage for a skillspammer?

I think main answers would be spark (demon sparks 25% att speed becomes useles, unless it also has increased channel which I never noticed), chill and bp. Demon only has slipstream that somewhat suits better for skill spamming. For all the other skills, it doesn't really matter that much.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

The only time I'd think about facerolling my skills is if they nerf aps to 3.33, and I got this

b:avoid

You probably underestimate lvl11 skills. A few days ago, I was goofing around with some friends using lvl15 npc daggers in duel. I could still 2 or 3 hit lvl100 LA class with chill and sage skills. Imagen what a sin with r8 daggers, 30%+ crit and 65 att lvls at least can do.
Now I don't know how it would do on high hp bosses, when aps really finds it's use (and imo the only real use of it), but It would be nice if someone actually tried it.

Thank you all for informations, I'll surely try that Sin on, maybe I'll stick with it and I'll surely be keeping you informed, Empu b:chuckle

And to the question of reason for going Sage:
- Spark - 25% DMG reduction > useless 25% APS increase
- more chance on Focused Mind
- more chance on Tidal Protection
- Shadow Escape's purify
- Bloodpaint!
- Deaden Nerves's longer duration
- Chill of the Deep b:victory
- Power Dash

Of course there are also reasons for going Demon, but Sage seems more like skillspammer, at least for me. Cheers b:thanks

i say relying on aps for pk isnt good because it dulls ur killing abilitys and makes u lazy
nowadays all i c is invis, run over, head hunt 3 spark auto till dead
the seconde something goes wronge they get scared and haul ***
not saying its bad just dont get cocky

Comment removed.

I've leveled a sage sin and am now working on a demon sin. I also consider myself a skill spammer, alot more than most sins at least, so here's my experience:



I have a 5.0 bm, aps gear, and the ability to farm Nirvana, and of course LOVE bloodpaint. I also recognized very quickly Sin's damage potential to be quite a bit higher than even 5.0 BMs. What I didn't quite recognize was their squishiness.

So, I built my Sin on the opposite account my BM so I could self paint. Sins have awesome skills and I found myself constantly using them and getting frustrated at other sins who didn't utilize them and instead spam sparked. In my head it came down to sort of the same thing as the OP is thinking "Demon spark spammer, or Sage skill spammer." I decided on sage for three reasons: I wanted sage paint for my bm and to increase my sins survivability, as well as take a support roll. I wanted dmg reduction and perma spark to increase my survivability. I used my skills a ton and didn't want to become just a spark spammer.

So I made a Sage Sin and I kind of regret that culti, mostly because of the easy aps of demon. Aps aren't everything but endgame, there are very few skills that increase dmg output more than spark spamming so you will eventually stop skill spamming for dmg. It becomes more situational. (bolded and colored because its the point of this post, if you don't read anything else.)



And not to get into the whole "sage vs. demon" thing, but if you are thinking Sage skill spammer vs. Demon spark spam, here are some skills demons use around their sparks.

Wolf Emblem: Lets say demon is "better" but sage is more useful as a permanent buff. With a good squad, very few bosses last longer than a minute (alot don't last 1 demon HF length) so this is more bang for your buck.

Shadow Escape: Lets face it, as a demon Sin you can purge yourself of negative effects every 12 seconds with triple spark anyways. Shadow Escape is better for pvp, tw, and pvm.

Knife Throw: 100% chance to interupt as long as it lands a hit. Sage depend on Throatcut which costs a spark and takes 2.4 seconds to cast. Knife Throw is 1.1 seconds and no cost, which is great for soloing.

Rib Strike: Reducing a targets hp by 10% is easy enough without the sage version of this skill using just damage, or ask a archer, veno, or bm with Deicides to do it. For soloing (and for 100% of the bosses hp) demons slow effect rules.

Maze Steps: An instant skill that increases your evasion by 80%.

Subsea: 15 second amp skill, 15 second spark. Coincidence? I think not.

Chill of the Deep: If it matters to you, you can be 5.0 with fists and Chill on.

Headhunt: 6 second stun x 5 aps= 30 attacks... Try not to kill someone with 30 attacks, lol.

Shadow Teleport: See above comment, except this one is basically a ranged at 25 times.

Condensed Thorn: Wanted to add this in. Channel cancel it for 10 seconds and base aps. Thats 12 attacks anf barely worth it. Do the same thing at 5... 50 attacks (I know CC time and graphics will make it less. Same with my stun calculations, but its still very close). Now. Same thing with Powerdash for 8 seconds too.

My point of listing skills out was to show how hormoniously aps and skills can live together. It doesn't always have to be only auto attack, or only skill spamming.

sage sins can e very pro. we can still basically perma spark( just need a chi skill in between)and some of the skills r better for skill spamming as long as u have the order right and can lock perfectly.

common demon sin argument-i can just 3 spark and aps u to death
no skill required so still kinda fail

both sides work just depends on who the player is