Clerics

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary · April 2011

This is an excerpt from the NiteDream Advice to the Noobie

About Clerics

34. Clerics

This isn't about how to be a Cleric, it is about what a Cleric can and cannot do when you are in a squad with them.
A Cleric is your healer, you all know that. They provide Buffs, Purify and, Heaven forbid, Revive. They can use Seals to reduce the target's Physical Defense, or Magical Defense. They can Sleep a target and if no one attacks, it is passive for those seconds. They can also Stun/Freeze a target but it can still attack, just not move (that's the time to RUN!). And they can do a surprisingly large amount of DD damage.
The trouble with a Cleric comes in the form of Healing Agro. What's that? A prime example would be the Barb dies or loses agro because a DDer overdoes it. The Cleric, not aware of the change in agro heals the new agro holder . . . guess who has agro now . . .
Okay, now the whole 'party wipe' thing. Just because the party is wiped, it does not mean it was the Cleric's fault for not healing. Everyone has to understand a few basic truths about a squad.

1. The Barb/Tank is the PRIMARY target of all the Cleric's attention. They will NOT be able to answer every cry for healing because of this fact.

2. A Cleric will be aware of AOE attacks and will counter the damage with their Chromatic Healing as soon as they can.

3. A Cleric in a BB must be protected from MOBs by anyone except the Tank! Losing a BB is easy but getting it back is a huge pain in the butt. When that Bubble goes up, if you want to live, keep things off the Cleric.

4. Not every Cleric has experience with every boss or MOB. Heck, Pole has killed me five times because no one told me about his Debuffs. Once I found that out and Tad figured out how to read Pole's attacks, it got simple! If you know something, make sure the Cleric does too!

5. If you aren't the Tank and draw agro, don't scream for healing, a wise Cleric should ignore you until you lose agro. Another thing, run toward the Cleric, not away! Run toward the Tank, not away . . . odds are he's trying to get agro back and if you are out of range, you are out of luck.

6. Remember this too. If YOU die, the Cleric can Revive you with very little XP lost to you. If the Cleric dies, not only does she have to go all the way out and run all the way back in but she also loses the maximum amount of XP just for dying.

7. If your Cleric dies and it is not a party wipe, don't start in on something new. She's trying to get back as soon as possible but we are the slowest running class in the game. Be patient. If you are still engaged with the boss, run around to buy time for the Cleric to get back. I've seen Tad and Dash do this in a Trench run where they were the only ones left alive. They ran around with a boss and a bunch of MOBs on their tails until I got back, then I was able to run in and Revive the others. After that we rescued the two Barbs. A fun and interesting run.

8. Unless you've played a Cleric for a while, you really have no idea how busy they are in a fight. In one TT1-1 run, fighting the last boss, the one in the pit with the invisible walls, I was the only Cleric and was stunned watching squad chat. It wasn't that it was mostly in German, it was that everyone else could actually CHAT while fighting! I couldn't get in two words without missing something vital, I was too busy keeping an eye on everyone's hit points as well as my own. In something like Eyes or Pole, its worse, I have to worry about Purify too. No, we don't have a MACRO for healing! Too many variables!

9. Almost forgot this one . . . USE YOUR OWN DAMN POTS AND HEALING ABILITIES! Just because you have a Cleric does not relieve you of the responsibility to HELP YOUR SELF! And shut up about healing just because your HP drops a little!

10. Last note. I have heard Clerics being called 'lazy' for using a Blue Bubble. Yes, it is easier, a lot easier and yes, I'll pop one up in a heartbeat but it isn't because I am lazy, it is because I can heal the entire squad at once. Don't make judgments on us unless you've been one and even then, everyone is different.

Thistle Thoughts: Never **** off the Cleric!

endlesstorture · April 2011

Cleric at 100+ is hard to get in squad, Dont make a healer, it sucks end game. pwi kill healers

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary · April 2011

endlesstorture wrote: »

Cleric at 100+ is hard to get in squad, Dont make a healer, it sucks end game. pwi kill healers

Your opinion is noted and ignored.

CocteauTwin - Lost City · April 2011

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your opinion is noted and ignored.

+1 b:victory

Clerics have awesome buffs, they are awesome healers (Mystics don't even come close, they may be good enough to heal themselves, but in squad... nah) and also awesome DDs. Tempest isn't much weaker than BIDS and Razor Feathers is great against Arcanes. Combine DPH skills with debuffs and you'll get a killer machine. Sure they are squishy, but that goes to every ranged class. I was going to play a Cleric but chose Seeker for its great AoEs and versatility. But I think I'll make a Cleric alt some day.

Clerics are not obsolete, even if 5 APS + Bloodpaint era. Even if 5 APS noobs don't invite Archers, Clerics, Wizards, Barbarians and Venos anymore (Mystics and Seekers also won't be invited because they're not godly 5 APSers) that doesn't mean anything. I would prefer to do a run in 3 hours with non-APS people than in 15 minutes with them b:chuckle

My personal advice (I will do so too): Do not squad with 5 APS people. Do not invite 5 APS people to guild. Do not go 5 APS. EVER.

endlesstorture · April 2011

Dont fall in love with 1 class, its bad for your gaming experience. How can you say Cleric is a fair class? Its one of the worst class in this game because they cant get into squads and cant DD.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver · April 2011

endlesstorture wrote: »

Cleric at 100+ is hard to get in squad, Dont make a healer, it sucks end game. pwi kill healers

im still wanted

idk what version you playingb:chuckle even with sage bp sins b:bye

CocteauTwin - Lost City · April 2011

endlesstorture wrote: »

Dont fall in love with 1 class, its bad for your gaming experience. How can you say Cleric is a fair class? Its one of the worst class in this game because they cant get into squads and cant DD.

Clerics can DD and can 1shot... b:surrender If you want compare them to 5 APS Sins/Barbs, then yeah, they can't DD. And so can't Wizards, non-APS BMs, Barbs, Venos, Archers, non-APS Sins, Psychics, Mystics and Seekers. I think you never saw good Cleric in PvP.

BarbLord - Raging Tide · April 2011

And yet another rant of a cleric, seriously you clerics seem extremely good at ranting, also most people on these forums aren't complete morons so your rant will lead to very little if nothing
And I am not saying there aren't alot of idiots around or that being a cleric is easy or even that you did not have some valid points there, just that this rant will lead to nothing at all

However I agree never to **** of a cleric, so while I am in the same squad with them I generally won't if they are the only healer even if they are quite fail, afterwards however I may decide to avoid squading them again
Either way rant all you want I doubt it will do much

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · April 2011

Meh - a lot of the content of that post is only partly true anyway, or sounds like it was written 2 years ago.

vristion · April 2011

awwww the memories of still being a 9x cleric.. when it was still some fun,

/retired-rerolled

Sabella - Harshlands · April 2011

endlesstorture wrote: »

Cleric at 100+ is hard to get in squad, Dont make a healer, it sucks end game. pwi kill healers

LOL just LOL.
I never have a problem finding a sq if I want one...maybe you were just a fail cleric. As far as end game, I out dd a ton of ppl an do pull aggro if I really want to...best thing about pulling aggro as a cleric is...I can heal myself.

truekossy · April 2011

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Meh - a lot of the content of that post is only partly true anyway, or sounds like it was written 2 years ago.

This sums up my thoughts on things here.

Fishlips - Harshlands · April 2011

its a hard job being at cleric and other dont know . they think it funny at end if bh or fc to pk a cleric for s&g. i know alots of cleric that stop playing them for that alone. i am one that stop playing cleric's let the pker heal and res ppls. no need for cleric in a pvp server close down bh and fc and do away with mobs and get exp for pking other.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver · April 2011

I do feel that the DDing power of clerics are becoming more unimportant as the newer classes are given greater advantages and at even lower levels. Today i can hit up to 50k damage on my VIT!!!! Mystic at lvl60. Thank you soul absorb for being sooooooo good...and making mad at the same time.

As far as squad dynamics goes, that thread gets a A+ for accuracy, noobs may have well...noob problems but these are the situations even pros have to deal with. Respect your cleric for they do all the heavy lifting, even if your a Tank. Keeping someone else alive is harder then keeping yourself alive, you don't know how much they can take, and you don't know what they will do.

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary · April 2011

BarbLord - Raging Tide wrote: »

And yet another rant of a cleric, seriously you clerics seem extremely good at ranting, also most people on these forums aren't complete morons so your rant will lead to very little if nothing
And I am not saying there aren't alot of idiots around or that being a cleric is easy or even that you did not have some valid points there, just that this rant will lead to nothing at all

However I agree never to **** of a cleric, so while I am in the same squad with them I generally won't if they are the only healer even if they are quite fail, afterwards however I may decide to avoid squading them again
Either way rant all you want I doubt it will do much

Actually, I don't rant. I do not offer this to vet game players and care nothing of their opinions. I offer this for the new player, like the one I brought into my faction yesterday with THREE days play time. Everyone can knock themselves out telling me just how useless this is but to the new players I hope it provides a few answers. QQ until your heart's content.

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary · April 2011

endlesstorture wrote: »

Dont fall in love with 1 class, its bad for your gaming experience. How can you say Cleric is a fair class? Its one of the worst class in this game because they cant get into squads and cant DD.

Making assumptions? While I am a cleric, mainly, I have also tried every class except the new seeker, and that only because of limits on my time. I have at least one of each class at 62nd level or higher except for the Mystic.

Aubree - Dreamweaver · April 2011

Even with their healing abilities, clerics are the weakest class in the game. Defense and offence.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · April 2011

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Even with their healing abilities, clerics are the weakest class in the game. Defense and offence.

How so?

I very strongly disagree with you on defense. They can't tank physical things, but a cleric's strongest point is magical defense. Something that would oneshot a BM (sans Marrow Magical) will not oneshot a cleric, assuming it's a pure magic damage, and assuming the same HP (which is, more or less, stupid).

I've seen Clerics solo things at lower levels that no other class could even think of soloing, other than a Herc/Veno or Nix/Veno.

Anyway... I must download and read, TY Thistle. b:victory

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver · April 2011

Thoughts on this list...even though you don't give a damn. ;X

1. Bull. The entire squad is a priority, unless they prove they're beyond our help (i.e. some random DD with highly refined weapon, but armor 20 levels outgrown unrefined and unsharded, that doesn't ever make even the slightest attempt to defend themselves via skills, pots, or genie). Every member is another wall between you and the mobs, and if you treat them right things run SO much smoother.

...Unless they just suck gratuitous amounts of *** in general. In which case, by all means let them die if you want. I tend not to, but I've thought about it. After all, can't out-heal a 1-shot... >.>

2. Truth...but I can't help but think this point is hypocritical when compared to your first listing.

3. Also true...but a Cleric should also be prepared to defend themselves with Genie skills if and when possible. But again...unless the squad sucks, this should be obvious to anyone who's been the victim of BB failing suddenly and the squad wiping. =/

4. Fun fact: squads tend to lean towards lenient and understanding if the Cleric actually seems to have their back (not all the time, but more often than not). But why waste the effort when the Cleric is an *** that won't put their necks out for the benefit of the whole squad, won't listen, or is just being rude/pompous/asinine when you try to teach them something?

I seem to recall an old saying from a forum once...

"Newbs can be taught, but Noobs should be shot."

5. I half agree. Yes the victim should run towards the tank when possible. But no, they shouldn't be ignored unless there's absolutely no chance that our heals will save them in time. Sure, we can just pick them up after the coast is clear...but party morale still tends to suffer after deaths. And then things just start to suck unless you're working with friends...

6. True enough...but I find it much easier to get others to defend me by reminding them that I'm slower than molasses, and if I die more than once they're all going to have to suffer a significant wait period while I run back.

And god forbid I die in a rushed TT...because if the squad wipes while scrolls are on cooldown and they want a rez, I won't hesitate to kill every...single...mob...because I won't risk another death just to pick them up off the floor. XD

7. I don't even see why this is a problem. If people want to rush off and continue clearing while they wait, let them. So long as they realize they've no longer any Clerical backup. If they die and @#$%, then just ignore/blacklist them, because they're clearly unobservant
dopes to realize the Cleric isn't even in the general vicinity. =/

8. Ehhhhhhh...I'll agree to an extent, but TBH I think a lot of Clerics are waaaaaaay too over dramatic about the difficulty of our job. And to be fair, Prima Donna Clerics tend to create most of their own hassles. If we do our job right, everyone else can do their jobs right...and the world is a better place for it.

9. I don't know about you, but unless they go running off before I can drop a heal on 'em, there's no reason I can't keep the whole squad topped off. Especially when they're the ones eating pretty much all of the repair costs. >.>

10. Though there are plenty of cases where BB is the smart play, in a majority of situations it IS lazy. Especially when the Cleric has a charm on, and you KNOW they went AFK when they stay in the bubble for 2-3mins after the coast is clear.

Last Thought: Good squads take care of good Clerics. And good Clerics take care of good squads. Keep an open mind and a level head until the job is done, even if the start of a run is a bit rocky. Because at the end of the day. if every one of your BHs/TTs/FCs ends in disaster, the common denominator might just be closer than you think. ;O

~END RANT~

Aubree - Dreamweaver · April 2011

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

How so?

I very strongly disagree with you on defense. They can't tank physical things, but a cleric's strongest point is magical defense. Something that would oneshot a BM (sans Marrow Magical) will not oneshot a cleric, assuming it's a pure magic damage, and assuming the same HP (which is, more or less, stupid).

I've seen Clerics solo things at lower levels that no other class could even think of soloing, other than a Herc/Veno or Nix/Veno.

Anyway... I must download and read, TY Thistle. b:victory

Wait till end game. You know then. Just wondering how many clerics have made vids doing something awesome? I see a lot of other classes. As for magic def, psy's and wizards have more.

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary · April 2011

Thanks for the comments, Lady Xel. I am only offering the advice to new players. Given time we have all learned how to alter our play style to fit the squad. Personally I agree, the entire squad is important and nothing gets me more upset than having ANYONE die. I will try everything in my power to keep everyone alive but new clerics, heck, new players don't often have the experience we have in combat. Experience that allows us to anticipate and react swiftly without hesitation. New player don't have the battlefield awareness and so I advise them to concentrate on the tanker. Also, their spells are limited in not only power but scope as well as their lacking MP control experience.

Thistle Thought: Take ALL advice into account even if it sometimes seems contradictory. As my father says, use every advantage you can get!

Futurelord - Dreamweaver · April 2011

I for one agrees with Thistle's signature.

Haden - Dreamweaver · April 2011

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary wrote: »

Too many variables!!

Hello Mordin Solis :P

Saeidon - Heavens Tear · April 2011

I accept that this is a guide aimed at new players, but I feel that while generally it captures much of what a cleric is about, there are still elements that are either incorrect, or misleading to newer players.

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary wrote: »

And they can do a surprisingly large amount of DD damage.

They do a moderate amount of DD durig the lower levels. For anyone who plays the game long enough to care about any guide however, a clerics DD is pitifully low, to the extent that it can be neglected entirely.

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary wrote: »

The trouble with a Cleric comes in the form of Healing Agro. What's that? A prime example would be the Barb dies or loses agro because a DDer overdoes it. The Cleric, not aware of the change in agro heals the new agro holder . . . guess who has agro now . . .

I'm not sure if you misunderstand how healing aggro works, or if this paragraph is badly worded. Either way it doesn't give a particularly good description of healing aggro.

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary wrote: »

5. If you aren't the Tank and draw agro, don't scream for healing, a wise Cleric should ignore you until you lose agro. Another thing, run toward the Cleric, not away! Run toward the Tank, not away . . . odds are he's trying to get agro back and if you are out of range, you are out of luck.

In principle, this can be true at times. But I wouldnt put it out there for clerics to avoid healing those who are not the tank if they draw aggro. From other things you've said I am sure you dont really believe this either. So I'm not sure why its there.

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary wrote: »

6. If the Cleric dies, not only does she have to go all the way out and run all the way back in but she also loses the maximum amount of XP just for dying.

8. Unless you've played a Cleric for a while, you really have no idea how busy they are in a fight.

9. Almost forgot this one . . . USE YOUR OWN DAMN POTS AND HEALING ABILITIES! Just because you have a Cleric does not relieve you of the responsibility to HELP YOUR SELF! And shut up about healing just because your HP drops a little!

All of this is so true.

Thistle_grey - Sanctuary wrote: »

10. Last note. I have heard Clerics being called 'lazy' for using a Blue Bubble. Yes, it is easier, a lot easier and yes, I'll pop one up in a heartbeat but it isn't because I am lazy, it is because I can heal the entire squad at once. Don't make judgments on us unless you've been one and even then, everyone is different.

But... there is nothing wrong with doing it because you are lazy. As you mentioned before, clerics normally have to do a hell of a lot more work than others, so **** it, why not take the chance to relax when you can?

btw, I played a cleric for about 2 years as my only char. This wiz is a new project, switched to because I wanted a new challenge.

MageMERC - Harshlands · April 2011

Half of this argument is already occurring in the thread "best class in game' with more dribble by endless. Seriously dude have your testicles dropped yet?

Anyway, if I could be bothered Id stand in the middle of arch and count the number of chat messages asking for clerics - probably 10 a minute or more. Apparantly we are still wanted everywhere by everyone..........

But as anyone with half a brain knows, every class is good to play or squad with when they do a reasonable job. Thats all.

Me - 89 cleric, 84 veno, 59 and 35 psychic (for the correct level wraith attacks), 54 sin (wrong build- dumped); 40 mystic, 40 seeker, 40 sin (love the new multi-clienting rules), 59 Barb. Still love playing the cleric........

Manostra - Harshlands · April 2011

On Higher Levels the Clerics Job become more boring, SADLY!

No RB , no Physical debuff, almost never purify, People have awesome gear and tons of hp and they are charmed wich dosnt make it more interesting for the cleric.

PWI is missing content for awesome geared, high refined and full g11+ sharded R9 People.
We need dungeons where this people feel like they are Noobs again with white gear. Where Heal matters and only good Teamwork can keep you alive.

tweakz · April 2011

Now that I'm playing a Cleric, I'm wondering why I ever wasted time leveling a Wiz.

Wiz 2 hit AoE combo of BIDS and Hailstorm isn't significantly better than Tempest and Razor Feathers. In some cases where mag def or water def is higher; cleric wins.

Wizard only gets one heal that: Ch 4.5s, Cast 1.2s. Cleric's Iron Heart takes 1s ch, 1s cast along with many other heals.

Wiz mag debuff (undine) only works for the elements it uses, while Cleric's Elemental Seal works for all elements.

Wiz gets an almost useless 1-1 water buff that only works for phys atks, while clerics get a bunch of great AoE party dmg, def, and recov buffs.

Sure, a wiz has continuous AoE that's only useful at high levels in RB and is now outdone by Seekers that can use Blood Paint.

I'd be much more worried about Wiz's than Clerics.

Despite people looking at and drooling over high 1-1 dps; mag classes are still viable DDs when used properly. Thankfully there are a few Barbs like Badboys on Heaven's Tear that make good use of them, and I think some Seekers may just bring AoE back to the game.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver · April 2011

tweakz wrote: »

Now that I'm playing a Cleric, I'm wondering why I ever wasted time leveling a Wiz.

Wiz is "only" in Endgame usefull and more "survivable". They are great heal support as well (bh3-3 if no second cleric). Dont understimate wizzes. They are way better DD in endgame then a Cleric (pve and pvp).

Other then this...

As Cleric you have to be prepared to any kind of situation, no matter who has agro.
A Cleric with experience knows that sins and archers are most potential agro stealer (wiz rarely, they learned very early what it means to get one-shot) and keeps always an eye on them. .

as for holy path and beeing slow. 80% of squad members use holy path generally as well, so can a cleric. Its called "adaption" to any kind of situation and to any kind of squad.

And guys...stop spamming AOE-Heals, till you channel it 2/3 of squad is dead by the end. use wellspring on squishies and IH on HA users. i m really tired of clerics who spamm AOE heals even tho there is only ONE Tanker and a boss without AOE.

Clerics

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