Demon Seekers
S/T/N - Dreamweaver3
Posts: 1 Arc User
I've noticed people are liking sage, and also on Demon vs Sage Seeker threads are basically...
Persuading seekers to go sage by comments as strong as telling a fat kid in an ice cream shop to pick chocolate cone with sprinkles.
Im not going sage, and I have my reasons. Some say demon BM is the only way to go, as some say sage Seeker the same.
Not for me. The best BM in the game I was told was sage. Yea he had like +12 everything but still he was good. I know anyone with +12 gear is going to beat someone endgame with +2 gear, also depending on skills and strategy.
Im going to put my plan/strategy - at least some of it - out there for seekers who want to go demon but hear much controversy about sage being the way to go.
100 celestial sage seeker skill - somthing like takes 25% less damage. ok cool seekers already have nice defense... Do you want to stay and tank then eventually die after taking a while to kill something.. OR
100 celestial demon seeker skill - add 25% attack speed ...
For the people who "LOL" "FLAME" LMFAO" "ROFL" ect. about APS seekers.. Dont be scared ok just hear the truth.
Unrefined swords have higher physical damage than unrefined Daggers (for those sins who laugh at aps seekers) and unrefined FISTS (for those bm's who do the same)
A seeker with 4 aps can nearly equal damage if not put more dps than a 5aps sin/bm.
Refine your rank gear to +12, use your celestial demon skill with around 2.8/3 aps on a seeker... you'll hit hard, and you will be happy with the additional aps as +25% IS NICE. Considering you cant constantly spam battousi , some attack speed for those sparks to use your skills seekers are made for will be nice, while increasing the DPS.
Demon seeker vortex stuns, 2 sparks. use 1 spark to stun, vortex, lock / own any in PvP. D/w about the Mana drain if you have herbs to replinish yourself and have good timing when the drain begins.
Just my input on why Im going Demon, hope some find this useful, I have nothing against any comments, just throwing out there - 1 who plays their class, can play it well. 1 who masters their class with enough research and time put into the game, will play it better. Pick your class wisely, do not let anyone tell you what to pick. b:victory Duces
Persuading seekers to go sage by comments as strong as telling a fat kid in an ice cream shop to pick chocolate cone with sprinkles.
Im not going sage, and I have my reasons. Some say demon BM is the only way to go, as some say sage Seeker the same.
Not for me. The best BM in the game I was told was sage. Yea he had like +12 everything but still he was good. I know anyone with +12 gear is going to beat someone endgame with +2 gear, also depending on skills and strategy.
Im going to put my plan/strategy - at least some of it - out there for seekers who want to go demon but hear much controversy about sage being the way to go.
100 celestial sage seeker skill - somthing like takes 25% less damage. ok cool seekers already have nice defense... Do you want to stay and tank then eventually die after taking a while to kill something.. OR
100 celestial demon seeker skill - add 25% attack speed ...
For the people who "LOL" "FLAME" LMFAO" "ROFL" ect. about APS seekers.. Dont be scared ok just hear the truth.
Unrefined swords have higher physical damage than unrefined Daggers (for those sins who laugh at aps seekers) and unrefined FISTS (for those bm's who do the same)
A seeker with 4 aps can nearly equal damage if not put more dps than a 5aps sin/bm.
Refine your rank gear to +12, use your celestial demon skill with around 2.8/3 aps on a seeker... you'll hit hard, and you will be happy with the additional aps as +25% IS NICE. Considering you cant constantly spam battousi , some attack speed for those sparks to use your skills seekers are made for will be nice, while increasing the DPS.
Demon seeker vortex stuns, 2 sparks. use 1 spark to stun, vortex, lock / own any in PvP. D/w about the Mana drain if you have herbs to replinish yourself and have good timing when the drain begins.
Just my input on why Im going Demon, hope some find this useful, I have nothing against any comments, just throwing out there - 1 who plays their class, can play it well. 1 who masters their class with enough research and time put into the game, will play it better. Pick your class wisely, do not let anyone tell you what to pick. b:victory Duces
Post edited by S/T/N - Dreamweaver3 on
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Comments
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I thought the most Seeker could get with a sword was 3.33aps even after spark. Also demon vortex is only a 15% stun chance iirc, I wouldn't count on that. I think the reason most people are saying Sage is the increased proc rate for debuff skills, extra damage on gemini and the sage unfetter. Demon has some useful skills to, and a higher attack rate is nice but not essential to the class0
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Have fun spending over9000m for optimal aps gear/refines.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dysk is my tasty chimichanga.
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Demon BM > Sage BM. End of story.S/T/N - Dreamweaver wrote: »Not for me. The best BM in the game I was told was sage. Yea he had like +12 everything but still he was good. I know anyone with +12 gear is going to beat someone endgame with +2 gear, also depending on skills and strategy.S/T/N - Dreamweaver wrote: »100 celestial sage seeker skill - somthing like takes 25% less damage. ok cool seekers already have nice defense... Do you want to stay and tank then eventually die after taking a while to kill something.. OR
100 celestial demon seeker skill - add 25% attack speed ...
Umm that's triple spark at 89. Do you even play this game?
You can't get to 4 APS on a Seeker. The most you can get to is 2.86. You'll be way behind BM and Sin in terms of DPS.S/T/N - Dreamweaver wrote: »Unrefined swords have higher physical damage than unrefined Daggers (for those sins who laugh at aps seekers) and unrefined FISTS (for those bm's who do the same)
A seeker with 4 aps can nearly equal damage if not put more dps than a 5aps sin/bm.
Refine your rank gear to +12, use your celestial demon skill with around 2.8/3 aps on a seeker... you'll hit hard, and you will be happy with the additional aps as +25% IS NICE. Considering you cant constantly spam battousi , some attack speed for those sparks to use your skills seekers are made for will be nice, while increasing the DPS.
Yeah it has 15% chance to stun every time the AoE ticks. Which means you'll stun every 7 hits, that's 21 seconds. You think people will sit there and wait for 21 seconds in PvP for you to stun them? And it only stuns for one second so....S/T/N - Dreamweaver wrote: »Demon seeker vortex stuns, 2 sparks. use 1 spark to stun, vortex, lock / own any in PvP. D/w about the Mana drain if you have herbs to replinish yourself and have good timing when the drain begins.0 -
Heres a really easy simple comparison of APS seeker vs Non APS seeker
Aps
attack dmg: 21053-25417
Pdef: 11448
MDEF 3067
attack speed: 2.86
Attack level: 46
Defense level: 56
http://pwcalc.com/036d877d19b1d331
VS
non aps
Attack dmg: 24984-29634
Pdef: 14388
Mdef: 4575
attack speed: 1.11
Attack lvl: 114
Def Level 85
http://pwcalc.com/3f2430beac580091
Not only does a Non aps build deal roughly 4k more damage from weapon alone; but also has more defense and higher attack level essentially dealing 58% more damage and taking 39% less damage as per attack level alone. Finally in closing it also has a chance for DOUBLE DAMAGE.
APS seeker isnt like an APS sin bm barb or archer. As an APS seeker you're WAAAAY to limited in your options, and you're limiting your options of fighting to almost strictly auto attacks. Seekers are skill throwers, not auto assaulters.0 -
GO whatever you want. You don't need to convince other people as to why you made your choice.0
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_Belgarion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »I thought the most Seeker could get with a sword was 3.33aps even after spark. Also demon vortex is only a 15% stun chance iirc, I wouldn't count on that. I think the reason most people are saying Sage is the increased proc rate for debuff skills, extra damage on gemini and the sage unfetter. Demon has some useful skills to, and a higher attack rate is nice but not essential to the class[/QUOTE
For me the increased Proc rate for the Debuff Skills are nearly ueseless, because
I can perma Debuff right now. Its just needs 1~3 Attacks to trigger.
So I prefere the Demon Enhancements.0 -
demon bm isnt always better then sage bm wish alot of ppl were smart enough to see that0
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and btw must have said this on at least 6 forums already. although it isnt a neccesity for seekers, aps helps with any melee class. thats a fact0
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supertroyman1 wrote: »and btw must have said this on at least 6 forums already. although it isnt a neccesity for seekers, aps helps with any melee class. thats a fact
If seekers had more "melee" enhancment skills like all other melee classes do, this would pose as truth..
People really need to realize seekers are really in a nutshell a heavy armored wiz/psyc
Also BM in the endgame of all endgame is by far better than a sage BM... They my do well in a diverse world of mid to lowend geared content. But in the end, the Demon BM would be the one on top..0 -
If seekers had more "melee" enhancment skills like all other melee classes do, this would pose as truth..
People really need to realize seekers are really in a nutshell a heavy armored wiz/psyc
Also BM in the endgame of all endgame is by far better than a sage BM... They my do well in a diverse world of mid to lowend geared content. But in the end, the Demon BM would be the one on top..
I disagree, but you, like every other demon bm are welcome to their short sighted opinion.Good intentions are like peeing yourself in dark leather pants, you get warm feelings inside, but it doesn't show.0 -
^^^
nevermind....PvE BM
b:shutup0 -
supertroyman1 wrote: »demon bm isnt always better then sage bm wish alot of ppl were smart enough to see thatHaden - Dreamweaver wrote: »I disagree, but you, like every other demon bm are welcome to their short sighted opinion.
I'm sorry but it's the cold hard fact. Only thing sage BM is good for is buffing others. PvE wise, demon wins with 5 APS and ability to CC GS and DB for much more added damage. PvP wise, Roar never miss and shorter c/d, longer stun with Bash, longer debuff on HF, bell + marrow for short burst of both def. Better stuns, better debuffs, more balanced defense, yeah we are the short sighted once.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »I'm sorry but it's the cold hard fact. Only thing sage BM is good for is buffing others. PvE wise, demon wins with 5 APS and ability to CC GS and DB for much more added damage. PvP wise, Roar never miss and shorter c/d, longer stun with Bash, longer debuff on HF, bell + marrow for short burst of both def. Better stuns, better debuffs, more balanced defense, yeah we are the short sighted once.
*sighs* better heal, better HF, better defense, 5.0 able on sage, better damage, roar always misses against will anyway, higher elemental damage, better shadowless, *sighs again* fire debuff, better marrows, better long term bell, longer cyclone meaning a sage bm can 5.0 longer than a demon.
The major difference between sage and demon is that demon can spark and hit 5.0 1 level before a sage can, but ultimately they both can get it so dont fool yourself.
However this is a seeker discussion, thanks for getting side tracked.Good intentions are like peeing yourself in dark leather pants, you get warm feelings inside, but it doesn't show.0 -
Cadeal - Dreamweaver wrote: »Heres a really easy simple comparison of APS seeker vs Non APS seeker
Aps
attack dmg: 21053-25417
Pdef: 11448
MDEF 3067
attack speed: 2.86
Attack level: 46
Defense level: 56
http://pwcalc.com/036d877d19b1d331
VS
non aps
Attack dmg: 24984-29634
Pdef: 14388
Mdef: 4575
attack speed: 1.11
Attack lvl: 114
Def Level 85
http://pwcalc.com/3f2430beac580091
Not only does a Non aps build deal roughly 4k more damage from weapon alone; but also has more defense and higher attack level essentially dealing 58% more damage and taking 39% less damage as per attack level alone. Finally in closing it also has a chance for DOUBLE DAMAGE.
APS seeker isnt like an APS sin bm barb or archer. As an APS seeker you're WAAAAY to limited in your options, and you're limiting your options of fighting to almost strictly auto attacks. Seekers are skill throwers, not auto assaulters.
Curious to where you got the Defense and Attack level differences from... Anyone can use a calculator and add +2 defense gems in their gear when using the tool to do so.0 -
i wanna persuade everyone else to go demon seeker so i can selfishly be the lone sage one lol b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan0 -
Oh ok, you added a +35 Strength Tome on your sage example, and a +9 Str tome on your demon example.. Not sure if you know but Strength adds to your physical attack creating more dps... b:bye0
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Haden - Dreamweaver wrote: »*sighs* better heal, better HF, better defense, 5.0 able on sage, better damage, roar always misses against will anyway, higher elemental damage, better shadowless, *sighs again* fire debuff, better marrows, better long term bell, longer cyclone meaning a sage bm can 5.0 longer than a demon.
The major difference between sage and demon is that demon can spark and hit 5.0 1 level before a sage can, but ultimately they both can get it so dont fool yourself.
However this is a seeker discussion, thanks for getting side tracked.
Better heal? You are counting on the 20% chance on Sutra?
Better HF? You get 2000 fire damage over 6 seconds. That's 500 damage over 6 seconds after PvP reduction and PRE-fire resistance reduction. That's better than 50% more time of 2X damage amp?
Better defense? You get 30% more on your Marrow while demon keep 30% on the def you are giving up with Marrow. Demon is more balanced so you don't get one shot by phy attack from Archer while using magic Marrow.
Yeah if you enjoy keep spamming Cyclone. Demon =>macro => eat a sandwich while staying 5.0.
Better damage? You get 15% weapon damage from mastery. But you get 135% weapon damage worth of fire damage from demon DB instead of 100%. Using CC DB means demon will have 35-15% =20% weapon damage over sage per hit.
And Roar also miss random people in TW when it's not demon. I always laugh at sage for missing Roar on me in 1v1.
Higher elemental damage? From? You are not saying to actually cast DB fully without CC are you? That's a great use of 2 sparks.
Better Shadowless? I can resist every cast from a boss by timing triple spark + lvl 1 Shadowless. For what is sage Shadowless needed?
Demon Fissure is much more useful in TW. 30% fire debuff is nice for HA, but you have less fire damage from DB anyways.
Marrow goes to the better def discussion. Sage marrows are too extream and leaves you vulnerable to the other type of attacks.
Yeah Bell's the only good thing. Even then short burst of high def from demon Bell is equal useful, saved my squad many times.
Longer Cyclone? How about you take into account of the time it takes to use Cyclone? You need to spark every 15 seconds anyways. 5 seconds of extra time of 5.0 without spark bonus is still going to get out DPS by demon who sparks every 15 seconds.0 -
Ok why do so many noob seekers think that by going demon they can achieve 3.33+ aps??? I mean if you actually put it in the calculator the max you can get is 2.86 with current gear...And besides why would I want to bash someone with 2.86 aps when they are hitting me at 5.0????(Assuming end game PvP)I would rather an additional 25% damage reduction of all damage then maybe one hit with Gemni slash or at least put them near death.0
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S/T/N - Dreamweaver wrote: »Oh ok, you added a +35 Strength Tome on your sage example, and a +9 Str tome on your demon example.. Not sure if you know but Strength adds to your physical attack creating more dps... b:bye
Added the +9 tome because all that was the "best" example of what was available for interval tomes. In order to achieve maximum APS something like it is needed.
Edit: nitpicking0 -
mmm.. DB ? drakes bash? draw blood? demon bane xD? CC? no idea xD
anyway, i planned on getting demon before, but after equipping the gears needed for it, i took the sage path.. me being 3 vit base, would prefer higher def. and higher dph.. i can hit 2.50 with sage spark and im happy with it.. and btw seeker can hit 3.33, but with a rare oht sword with mediocre damage..0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Yeah if you enjoy keep spamming Cyclone. Demon =>macro => eat a sandwich while staying 5.0.
Makes me want to rerole a BM.b:bye0 -
Cadeal - Dreamweaver wrote: »Heres a really easy simple comparison of APS seeker vs Non APS seeker
Aps
attack dmg: 21053-25417
Pdef: 11448
MDEF 3067
attack speed: 2.86
Attack level: 46
Defense level: 56
http://pwcalc.com/036d877d19b1d331
VS
non aps
Attack dmg: 24984-29634
Pdef: 14388
Mdef: 4575
attack speed: 1.11
Attack lvl: 114
Def Level 85
http://pwcalc.com/3f2430beac580091
i tried to do comparison, if u spent about same amount of money for each build
non aps
HP 13 926
Pdef. 10 975
Mdef. 5 737
Physical Atk. 9 684-11 896
Crit 25%
APS 1,11
ACC 3100
Eva 1850
Attack lvl. 69
Def lvl. 54
http://pwcalc.com/96ee19a66126b6b4
VS
aps
HP 12 694
Pdef. 12 191
Mdef. 4 118
Physical Atk. 7 833 - 9 862
Crit 20%
APS 2
ACC 3580
Eva 2096
Attack lvl. 38
Def lvl. 52
http://pwcalc.com/52e6ae99efa5ebd5
IMO non-aps seems still better0 -
S/T/N - Dreamweaver wrote: »A seeker with 4 aps can nearly equal damage if not put more dps than a 5aps sin/bm.
i stopped readin right there.....a seeker with 4 aps is a hacker. does not exist0 -
was it capped by the game, or the gears?Tomoe_ - Sanctuary wrote: »mmm.. DB ? drakes bash? draw blood? demon bane xD? CC? no idea xD
anyway, i planned on getting demon before, but after equipping the gears needed for it, i took the sage path.. me being 3 vit base, would prefer higher def. and higher dph.. i can hit 2.50 with sage spark and im happy with it.. and btw seeker can hit 3.33, but with a rare oht sword with mediocre damage..[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan0 -
Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »was it capped by the game, or the gears?
my bad.. -.05 int was a unique add on.. so it's just a mere estimation with a stength-genie now i think xD0 -
there is only 1 reason to go demon... and that is becuase your ganna have absolutely no competition in getting the skillbooks.
on the other hand since no one in thier right mind goes demon Seeker and you need to MAKE the skillbooks becuase they dont drop from mob, it will be HARDER to get them becuase there wont be any sellers. and you would have to make them yourself.
Demon Seeker=Fail
end of storyKilling level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.0 -
were physical nukers with metal dmg flexibility... why dyu think we have so many aoes? our skills consist of mostly base dmg+%weapon dmg+flat dmg ---> not that different than that of a wizards or psychics
even if u want aps... sins/bm will still out dd you and you would need to invest in all the interval gears and there arent many -interval swords out there i would think
vortex's stun is like wizards lvl 11 dragons breath with the low chance to stun... maybe useful for pve but for pvp no one in the right mind would sit there in the middle of ur vortex
and imo seekers defense isnt that great.. we lack immunity to negative effects with the exception of SAGE unfetter and even that is only 4 seconds immunity
if you wanna go demon aps seeker go ahead... but dun say we didnt warn ya b:shutup0 -
"we lack immunity to negative effects "
CC quid pro---unlimited0 -
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"you cant use quid when you are stunned or silenced. "
What does that have to do with the statement? You do realize stun/silence isnt the ONLY negative effect?
Also Sage has 100% chance to antistun, and will be able to reset again for another Antistun......0
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