Sage & Demon Census

I prefer sage, a lot of the spells are better with sage.

Sage is always going to be better for a psy cause like everyone already pointed out the added effects are much better. If you can get Bubble of Life book you're good to go, its good in PVP and PVE which mass purifies and heals. Just a friendly advice, don't get Red Tide book or worry about it since it still sucks at lvl 11. Biggest waste of coins I ever made b:surrender

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

I like how everyone here is all like "sage da best." and "Only viable build is sage!"

Demon is also a very good build. Demon Landslide and Demon Tide Spirit would make you pretty scary in pvp. Not to mention glacial shards having a higher proc rate and earth vector aoe being 78% bigger than sage's.

Crit rate is still just a chance and the duration on those skills is laughably low, like enough time to benefit from one cast low.

4 seconds from Landslide at a 30% chance to proc. Landslide isn't a skill I see all Psys throwing out every chance it cools and on top of that, you're forced to sacrifice range to get in close enough to hit someone with it.

Tide Spirit has a nice duration of an amazing 15 seconds, but it is a two spark cost, which means that you'll have fewer defensive options immediately available to you and that is two sparks you now need to build back up to be at full power.

And from my math, earth vector's aoe increase range from six meters to eight meters isn't a 78% increase in size. More like a 33-34% increase in size.

But nobody has said sage is the only viable path. People have said it is the BETTER path, as in a Sage Psychic is more useful overall than a Demon.

Demon is still a choice you can make, it's just that people like the sage skills more, and for good reason.

Ellantria - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And from my math, earth vector's aoe increase range from six meters to eight meters isn't a 78% increase in size. More like a 33-34% increase in size.

well your math is wrong.

Landslide doesn't knock back in pvp or even duels. I guess you could do it for the damage, but most psychics I see try to kite melee classes anyways and a 10 meter cast isn't very good.

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Let's see, 99% of the pkers are sins. Sins are melee. Landslide.

Why would you use this?

The only place I would ever think of using is with Wizzies/Clerics

Landslide interrupts channelling, sins already have low channelling on skills.
If you're so close to a sin that you'd use landslide, wouldn't it better to use Earth Vector or Psychic Will or even soulburn.

Heck even if you don't even have the 1 Chi even using Glacial Shards is better as it has a chance of doing a negative effect rather than just damage. Specially if you have demon glacial shards. Heck even sage is good an extra couple seconds of freeze.

Demon Landslide lol even if you somehow get the extra crit rate, you'd only be able to pull off 1 skill. And you'd be dead cause the sin would've ran that 10 meters in less than 2 seconds.

*facepalm* please go read what Landslide does.

The only thing it is good for in PvP is interrupt casting and damage.

Other than that it isn't really useful vs meele because you have to be within 10 meters to cast it.

If you're fighting someone 10 levels lower than you or you have +12 gears or they have NPC gears, then yeah you can use Landslide and go ahead and one shot them.

Under no circumstance should you use this skill against meele enemies or someone who is decently geared because by the time you finish casting Landslide, if they aren't dead then they've reached you and you will soon be dead or eating alot of charm.

And to say you can cast 2 skills while getting the extra critrate is just plain stupid.

You have an extra 4 seconds of increased critrate. No way you can pull of 2 skills because even if you do manage to click the second skill by the time it finish casting, you're 4 seconds of increased critrate would be over.

yaoming36 wrote: »

*facepalm* please go read what Landslide does.

The only thing it is good for in PvP is interrupt casting and damage.

Other than that it isn't really useful vs meele because you have to be within 10 meters to cast it.

If you're fighting someone 10 levels lower than you or you have +12 gears or they have NPC gears, then yeah you can use Landslide and go ahead and one shot them.

Under no circumstance should you use this skill against meele enemies or someone who is decently geared because by the time you finish casting Landslide, if they aren't dead then they've reached you and you will soon be dead or eating alot of charm.

And to say you can cast 2 skills while getting the extra critrate is just plain stupid.

You have an extra 4 seconds of increased critrate. No way you can pull of 2 skills because even if you do manage to click the second skill by the time it finish casting, you're 4 seconds of increased critrate would be over.

Mage is right. Your wrong.

You do realize landslide is our hardest hitting attack - so a psy can do it to deal large amount of damage or that+the benefit of interrupting a cast. (vs melee= psy.will followed by a combo of landslide and any attack based on the situation is enough to kill a person or do insane amount of damage and freeze/slow down to gain some distance)

Our next bext attack is crystal light and it's awesome, but anyway...regarding the topic:

I find it funny how people say demon is good for people who can't cash shop much. Yes, some skills benefit more from a hard cs sage rather than the demon counter-part. However, demon has a lower survivability than a sage psy and some of his skills are designed to fight rather than be tactical (aka a demon Soul of Vengeance), so let's not be too hasty about classifying demon as a cheaper direction for the psys.


Here is the comparison of sage/demon skills:



Aqua Impact *
Demon: Has a 20% to reduce opponents chi by 30.
Sage: Slows target by 50%.

I use crystal light, glacier shards and vector primarily to cc opponents, so demon version is actually pretty good - even though the 20% chance is painful.


Spirit Blast *
Demon: Additional damage is increased by 361.
Sage: Upon a successful hit, has a 20% chance to gain 30 Chi.

In TW I'd rather go with demon version because it's more reliable - you won't really get to shoot Spirit Blast 10 times in a fight for that 20% chi gain chance to make a difference.


Black Voodoo *
Demon: Defense level is reduced by 3 points less.
Sage: Attack level is increased by an additional 3.

White Voodoo *
Demon: Has an effect that reduces your channeling time by 3%.
Sage: Defense level is increased by 5 more points.


This depends a lot on play style and this is why you cant say demon psy is cheaper than a sage, because the benefits of each direction when it comes to Black and White Voodoo as well as the answer to possibilities of different play styles as a psy lie within these two skills.



Landslide *
Demon: Has a 30% chance to add an effect that increases your critical hit chance by 50% for 4 seconds.
Sage: Cast Range is increased by 3 meters.

People praise demon version, but it's actually not That Great for pvp. You are not meant to fight at close range, and even if by some chance you get to cast this skill - you probably won't have enough time to even properly benefit from the +crit chance, provided that it actually procs...

Demon version is awesome for pve, but in pvp only situation in which you could benefit from it is nuking cata barb and having enough room to breath such close range.

Sage version is not useless in pve, it comes in handy, but far from being great as the demon version. As for pvp, you simply don't get to use this skill all that often and when you do, it's most likely in situations where your enemy is next to you - so the extra range changes nothing.

Point being that for pvp, none of the versions are life changing in combat, even though given the nature of situations in which you get to use landslide - I'd go for demon version.


Torrent *
Demon: Duration is reduced by 3 seconds.
Sage: Additional damage is increased by 1,200.

Sand Trap *
Demon: The duration is reduced by 3 seconds.
Sage: Increases the additional damage by 1200.

Both are good, I'd prefer sage version for duels but in TW demon version seems more convenient.


Bubble of Life *
Demon: Reduces cool down by 5 seconds.
Sage: Dispels negative statuses.

Sage version is great for pve and even though the demon version didn't appeal to me at first, I can say now there were some situations where I missed that cooldown.

Regarding TWs, you won't really use aoe heal all that much. The range thing is annoying and it takes too much time to cast it while in combat, so if you need to purify yourself, you'll actually mostly use other ways of doing it - the most obvious one being psy.will.


Aqua Cannon *
Demon: Has a 50% chance to deal additional 4518.8 Water damage over 6 seconds.
Sage: Has a 30% chance to immobilize target for 3 seconds.

Both could have their uses in tw, but the issue is range - so you won't really use it often, as you're probably dead in the next 1-2seconds if you're that close to enemies that you can actually use this skill.

For GV I'd obviously prefer demon version.


Glacial Shards *

Demon: The chance to immobilize is increased to 75%.
Sage: The immobilize duration is increased by 2 seconds.

The 75% sounds nice but does it make it reliable? No. That's why sage version is better. You will trust your glacier freeze equally and when it does freeze, extra 2seconds come in handy. If it was higher percentage of chance to freeze, I'd probably prefer demon version - but this way, no thanks.


Sandburst Blast *
Demon: Has a 20% chance to lower target's Earth defense by 20% for 8 seconds.
Sage: Effect range is increased to 10 meters.

Demon version is better, both for pvp and pve - hands down, no discussion needed.


Empowered Vigor *
Channel 0.8 seconds
Cast 2.2 seconds

Demon: Healing effect of skills is boosted by 5% and that of potions is increased by 10%.
Sage: The cool down time of Health charm is reduced by 1 more second.

Sage version is better obviously, not even worth debating it since you'll be charmed in TW.


Diminished Vigor *
Demon: The healing effect of skills is reduced by 5% more; that of potions is reduced by 10% more.
Sage: The cooldown of Health charm is increased by 1 more second.

Sage version way better once again.



Disturb Soul *
Demon: Duration time is increased by 3 seconds.
Sage: Increases the channeling time of the skill by 100%.

Not the skill on top of your priority list when you face any class, but still I'd go for sage version because it wastes less time and in most cases your target will never get to feel those extra 3seconds of debuff.

Tide Spirit *
Demon: Adds an effect that increases your critical hit chance by 20% for 15 seconds.
Sage: The channeling speed time is increased by 3 seconds.

Insane demon skill which makes most players think twice before going for sage. However, Tide Spirit lasts for only 15seconds...and this is supposed to be one of demon psy's strongholds. However, the sage version is not that bad at all...so the advantage demon version has here isn't all that great - 15seconds of +crit vs 9/15second of "insta-cast"?

I say they are both good. as you can't really say sage version is ****.


Red Tide *
Demon: The bleed damage is increased to 1.2x Soulforce.
Sage: Has a 50% chance to cost only 1 Spark.

Both versions are cool. It depends on how frequently you use red tide and what you want to accomplish with it. Obviously this is one of the examples where a high refined demon gains a lot more than a sage.


Aqua and Earthen Spirit *

Demon: Critical cast chance is increased by 1%.
Sage: Damage is increased by 25%.

Most psys go heavy on buffing up +mag attack and neglect crit, so sage version is a safe choice for your damage output to benefit the most. However, both ways are actually pretty good and it comes down to balancing your gear.


Soulburn *
Demon: Cooldown is reduced by 5 seconds.
Sage: Duration is increased by 2 more seconds.

In the situations where you'll use soulburn, you probably won't get to benefit from the reduced cooldown. Whereas the sage version is obviously sick. Extra 2seconds on this skill and on psy.will are one of the greatest benefits of being a sage psy.


Psychic Will *
Demon: Has a 20% chance to cost no Spark.
Sage: The immunity duration is increased by 2 seconds.

As said above, the extra two seconds sage psy gets are awesome. The demon version is laughable and pointless - 20% is way too low and even if it did proc, in situations you use psy.will, you probably won't be looking for that extra spark and already have a combo to survive in your head which isn't reliant on demon psy.will costing 0sparks.


Earth Vector *
Demon: Effect range is increased to 8 meters.
Sage: Has a 50% to cost no Spark.

You will use Earth Vector a lot, both in pvp and pve - so the sage version wins this one easily. Saving a spark is incomparable to gaining extra 2meters of range - in most causes you won't even benefit from those extra meters.



Soul of Vengeance *
Demon: The reflected damage is increased by 4% of caster's Soulforce.
Sage: No mana cost when reflecting damage.

Demon version is obviously better. Though the sage version is pretty cool and allows you to buff tanks with SoV. However...it's plausible that demon version would be better for GV due to mana regen which would prevent any mana issues for the barb.


Soul of Stunning *
Demon: The fixed Stun time is increased by 1 second.
Sage: Every 4000 Soul force you have will increase the Stun time by 1 second.

Sage version is better, though it obviously takes time for it to gain advantage over the demon version.



Soul of Silence *
Demon: The chance of silence is 1.2x that of the LV10 version.
Sage: The silence time is increased to 5 seconds.

They are both painful. Since there is no internal cooldown on the silence proc, demon version is actually pretty nasty as it allows you to have higher chance to silence than the sage version.


Soul of Retaliation *
Demon: Reflects damage equal to 0.6x Soulforce.
Sage: Heals the caster by 15% of Max Health.

Even though the heal sounds nice, given the situations when SoR is used, you'd actually benefit more from the demon version. Mostly because in most cases SoR makes you lose very little hp to begin with.



Tide Form: *
Demon: Increases Defense Level by an additional 3.
Sage: Increases Swim speed by an additional 20%.

You don't use Tide Form to get extra defense, you use it to swim faster - so obviously sage version is better.

im demon, I chose demon for landlside, (the extra crit bonus allows for 2 skills to be cast) aqua cannon(the extra dmg is awsome, or will be once i get itb:chuckle) and galcial shards and earth vector, sandburst blast, also SoV extra 4% dmg , now reflects 2k+ on mobs in FC, and can 3-4 hit lower lvl mages and sinsb:victory
however I also chose demon for red spark, and beacuse it sounded cool xD

Besides. I am a demon and i never have a chi prob. if i use a chi skill i normally rebuild it before the skill cools down so idk what u guys talking about

LittIewg - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its so funny when sage psys pm me just to say things like ''Omfg your a demon psy?wtf is wrong with u,omg omg raaage'' I Dont understand why EVERY psy has to go sage. Because some skills are better?Yeah the purify on bubble and the extra heal on retal are great,But the same thing can be said about demon landslide,demon earth vector,Demon glacial shards,Demon aqua cannon,etc. So please,Just because a few psys choose to go the path of demon doesnt meen you have to go rage rage,Not everyone has to follow the path of sage,My advice would be to stop listening to every oneminded psy that claims sage is just GodLike. Demon is nice,And so is sage. Now can the ''Omg whos better,Sage or demon psy? Convo be ended.''

I'd trade sage bubble and sor for demon landslide and tide spirit any day.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nevertheless Demon is also a viable choice. I guess psychic is as balanced as wizard when it comes to the choice sage/demon.

+1 on that

Keshy.... get off of forums.


but GRATS ON 90!!!!!!!!:D