Give the GMs/Company a break. At least this once

RADD_RATT - Harshlands · April 2011

Hudini - Harshlands wrote: »

ok so you RFKCINGWITME, i was just making sure.

lol...............

Vincinator - Raging Tide · April 2011

Hudini - Harshlands wrote: »

So after offering OP gear they take it away....thats balance? RUFCKINGWITHME?

They didn't "Take away OP gear after offering it". They gave option to people to get some.

And now took out the "means" to get it temporarly. Those who have R9 pieces won't have them magicly deleted. THAT would have caused major QQing.

No need to go either "Oh they will NEVER come back" and go spend 150k DQ points on makeover scrolls to have a fix next week or so (never know)

In this case..patience is a virtue..

And i'm beeing told to cooldown in other threads..geez..

Dpicic - Harshlands · April 2011

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

I see so much GM hate in this thread....... I think that's why it looks like the GM "don't care" about the community. It's because of the flaming.

If you were a GM like Frankie getting multiple flame threads being called "A fail GM" or GMs fail at their job and are to lazy and don't care about the community" all because of 1 change in game that the community doesn't like, what would do? Because if you were in the GMs shoes I know you won't be happy getting all of those hate messages. b:scorn

Cut them some slack, because Raging and QQing doesn't solve anything..... It just start more problems..... b:surrender

(I know I'm going to get flamed for this..... )

hmmm..I see u guys dont know...but let me tell u a little secret..
GM's are b:quiet masochistsb:mischievous
they do stuff like this so that we can flame them ...and they LOVE ITb:sin

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · April 2011

_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There was no hurt to the economy.. you can buy dq and get medals, making them a tradable item via dq items anyway. You know not what you speak of.

The problem with this logic is that you are getting both the dq points AND the money, not just one or the other the way it was meant to be. Want the item? You lose out on the profit you could have from marking up dq items. Want the money? You don't have dq points to get the item. People were selling them for a profit so clearly selling the rank items was more profitable than selling marked up dq items for some people. That isn't okay, you pick one or the other is the way its meant to be. Exploiting the glitch is a bannable offense anyway.

angellicdeity · April 2011

Many of you in support for GM's don't understand. Likely you haven't been here long enough to know whats happened over the years, but the GM's run out of their credibility a long time ago. The only GM that was really, really active was the old one from 2008/2009, Snakefist I believe. He was the only GM who would honestly try and build a relationship.

Anyways to the point:

They've put a rank sale and people bought chips for tokens only to find lack of Medals. People spending hundreds of dollars have found out it was absolutely worthless as they cannot make their gear. They darn well have a right to be angry and flame to their hearts content.

In most western nations there are laws to protect consumers from this kind of activity. Especially since it was advertised that the chips were to make Rank 9 gear. In court Perfect World Entertainment would probably loose. Though I doubt people are going to sue over a mere 100 bucks.

The reason the GM's are not going to stop hearing about this issue and continue to get flamed is simply because they didn't put the Medal of Glory into the cash shop. They removed the only method of obtaining them and put a rank 8/9 sale on... Biggest and dumbest mistake ever.

The people who exploited the glitch are sitting pretty charging ridiculous sums for the few medals. People who charged zhen to buy rank 9 gears get shafted as they cant actually get the gear without the medals that are very scarce to come by.

Fluxal - Dreamweaver · April 2011

I played a lot of other big games before this one, from the likes of EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard, etc...

Regardless of anything else, I have a lot of respect for PWI that such a thing as GM's have even been implemented.... In other big games, such a thing simply does not exist. No spokesperson from other big games will enter into a debate on the forums, no other games will actually listen to all the bantering in the community, reply, react, and make an honest effort to fix things. We have it good here, real good.

I, for one, am happy just to have an outlet for game issue feedback. In the end, PWI sure has to do whats best for business, but at least here we have a chance to be part of the solution.

SilverCleric - Lost City · April 2011

angellicdeity wrote: »

Many of you in support for GM's don't understand. Likely you haven't been here long enough to know whats happened over the years, but the GM's run out of their credibility a long time ago. The only GM that was really, really active was the old one from 2008/2009, Snakefist I believe. He was the only GM who would honestly try and build a relationship.

I haven't really heard of Snakefist, but I have heard of a old GM named Eatwithspoons... and he was probably the most best GM ever known by the community back in the day. I do understand what your talking about since I'm a 2 year veteran myself (and yet I'm still not at lvl 100+ >_>) and I seen what many mistakes PWI done to this game, but it's the same routine over and over: Something gets added/change to the game that the community doesn't like, the community flames to their hearts content and then ether two things happen... ether the issue doesn't get resolve and over time people stop complaining and adapt to the change or on a rare occasion the GM changes it back to normal with in a few days to a week or more. This situation is going to go ether those two ways, so pretty much you guys just have to wait and see if anything happens or not.

Anyways to the point:

They've put a rank sale and people bought chips for tokens only to find lack of Medals. People spending hundreds of dollars have found out it was absolutely worthless as they cannot make their gear. They darn well have a right to be angry and flame to their hearts content.

In most western nations there are laws to protect consumers from this kind of activity. Especially since it was advertised that the chips were to make Rank 9 gear. In court Perfect World Entertainment would probably loose. Though I doubt people are going to sue over a mere 100 bucks.

The reason the GM's are not going to stop hearing about this issue and continue to get flamed is simply because they didn't put the Medal of Glory into the cash shop. They removed the only method of obtaining them and put a rank 8/9 sale on... Biggest and dumbest mistake ever.

The people who exploited the glitch are sitting pretty charging ridiculous sums for the few medals. People who charged zhen to buy rank 9 gears get shafted as they cant actually get the gear without the medals that are very scarce to come by.

^ My statement is in red...

_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver · April 2011

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The problem with this logic is that you are getting both the dq points AND the money, not just one or the other the way it was meant to be. Want the item? You lose out on the profit you could have from marking up dq items. Want the money? You don't have dq points to get the item. People were selling them for a profit so clearly selling the rank items was more profitable than selling marked up dq items for some people. That isn't okay, you pick one or the other is the way its meant to be. Exploiting the glitch is a bannable offense anyway.

Many people were making profit on marking up the dq items. I think you have failed logic. Seriously dq points in increments of 35 were selling for 11k. It just also happens you can move 1 item faster than 667 (30p) or 572 (35p). So 20k points / 35= 572 (rounded up)*11k= 6.29mill and medals sold for 5 mill.

Edit

Yes now they are making HUGE profits from selling the medals no longer obtainable. That is a fail on GM part. I have already stated 5x in other threads proper way to handle this. Make each lvl 100 character only able to obtain a max of 19 medals. Problem solved.

Hudini - Harshlands · April 2011

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The problem with this logic is that you are getting both the dq points AND the money, not just one or the other the way it was meant to be. Want the item? You lose out on the profit you could have from marking up dq items. Want the money? You don't have dq points to get the item. People were selling them for a profit so clearly selling the rank items was more profitable than selling marked up dq items for some people. That isn't okay, you pick one or the other is the way its meant to be. Exploiting the glitch is a bannable offense anyway.

You apparently have as much knowledge about in game economy and merchanting as someone who never played the game before. Honest to god people, if you dont know anything about either then dont post here.

Restecp - Sanctuary · April 2011

Personally, although I may not agree with all the recent changes, I believe the devs and GMs are doing their best to keep this game playable. I also appreciate the Mods presence in the forums. As a previous forum moderator myself, (for OTHER games...) I understand how frustrating it can be to watch flame thread after flame thread pop up. And I must say, the mods of THIS forum must have the patience of saints.

In short, if you can't be bothered reading all that, Thankyou PWI team for doing a decent job. b:cute

With that out of the way, I must ask that you please do not flame me and keep your arguments valid. b:surrender

Hudini - Harshlands · April 2011

Restecp - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally, although I may not agree with all the recent changes, I believe the devs and GMs are doing their best to keep this game playable. I also appreciate the Mods presence in the forums. As a previous forum moderator myself, (for OTHER games...) I understand how frustrating it can be to watch flame thread after flame thread pop up. And I must say, the mods of THIS forum must have the patience of saints.

In short, if you can't be bothered reading all that, Thankyou PWI team for doing a decent job. b:cute

With that out of the way, I must ask that you please do not flame me and keep your arguments valid. b:surrender

excuse my last post to you please, it was apparently threatening and insulting. You see my issue with your opinion here is that it is based of minimum time around this company, while I understand your sympathy for the forum mods here trust me it is well misplaced. Welcome to the boards friend.

CheetahWoods - Raging Tide · April 2011

ya that 2x drop+ peeps buying dq @ 300coin/dragon pt and up was sweet.

i farmed the **** out of 81/91 and sold it all.

my logic was: cash is king, and cash is now

i'm laughing all the way to.... wait, i'm AT the bank. then they pulled those medals. i didnt vend my 20+ stacks of dq i farmed and boy am i glad.

in the x months until something happens, that cash will work magic and multiply itself many times over the next few months.

i will temporarily lay aside my plans for generating approx 1billion coins for the purchase of r9 as my endgame goal.

at first i was bummed. then i hit a stage of retrospect....i actually have been freed of a long arduous journey in accumulating my R9 resources.....just started buying zen to start the push, hey that gets put on hold now too because MAYBE i cant have R9..we dont know...the wise "pro at life" will sit in the bushes watching, making no solid commitments until situation is stabilized and KNOWN

now that i have no endgame plans, i have an @ssload of cash to have fun with

west arch in RT is catshop heaven..heh..i scored a:
sensoid wand(beautiful colors, matches my toons outfit) it was ref+5 and had 2 sapph gems in it. i was in the mood, so i overpaid and bought it for $30mil, but i didnt have to dck with it, so yeah!! score!!

bought 2 champ scrolls for 20 and 22mil rspectively. yup, no 19mil horsecrap for me..i was on a roll. i was SHOPPING!!! full boat or gtfo..booowaaah1!!!!
SPEAKING of rolling...my lil AH mgr L31 rolled the scrolls..1st one: 2socket heaven w/6mag = SHT waaah i lost 6mil.....Shalomar rolls the second: 4 sockets!! 5 mag(oh well)

wheeeeehaawwwww..grab 1 gold ..who cares it is 890k..only need one for tinky stones.
score immac cits..presto: ready to wear +4refine and 4 immac citrines..off to main...

did i say i was making money like a freak? i'm loving this game right now. now that i have R9 and TW out of my brain. i can focus on pwning the economy fulltime.

opportunistic bastrds like myself LOVE TIMES OF CHANGE.

i have an advantage over most of you from playing prior mmo's like this and specifically studyingthe economy mechanics for my fun and profit.

also, the world of gamers and game info is not stupid. in the big scheme of things, if PWi is as crippled as the qq'rs make out, it will indeed get a black smudge and die. BUT you cant predict jack sht. if these folks make the right dynamic moves at the righrt time, the game will continue to live

there are other companies busting their @sses to fill the void that WoW basically left as of couple years ago when it just got too old. makes for lots of things to watch..
there are hungrier companies out there that are going to eat PWi's lunch very soon.
no doubt.

but i dont give a rats patootie. my toons have nice stuff and look good.
strike a pose.

now i have things to do ingame: cheetahWoods rides his hellfire in trunks and flippy flops by the BH platform and TROLLS THE HELL out of all those poor schmecks crying for a bh barb. totally fun, totally free..gotta make ur own fun

im making a ton of L87 robes to see if i can craft a nice robe since even the epic ones are garbage ?galemark? moonshade? useless tauren thing..naw i want a sawed off wing trophy. my cleric wants : magic/HP and runfast on her robe. galemark is hp+runfast...already got that made +wood res so >galemark

i have now made 102 robes..think of it..612 reinforced leather, 408glaze, 408azureworm silk. well the dodo's in the ah trashed the price of glaze heh..i sucked up 1k glaze heh
i have the azure (cyan jade/charcoal)from farming all that dq..and the chipmunks behind east barrier are crying...still.

wtf..i was only here at the forums to verify that the jones and dragon point pages were down and i get sucked into one of THESE threads

Michael_Dark - Lost City · April 2011

Restecp - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally, although I may not agree with all the recent changes, I believe the devs and GMs are doing their best to keep this game playable.

That's nice, but apparently you don't understand how things work at PWI.

I have no grief against PWI GMs, but PWE developers and PWI management suck and are responsible for a horrible lack of consistency and continuity as a separate version of the game that has done almost nothing beneficial in the last 2+ years...

AlysonRose - Heavens Tear · April 2011

As I posted in the maint thread like 1 min b4 they took out the mdeals, I really love the new divine contracts. Everyone I know loves them too.

They are easily my favorite thing to come from either of the last 2 expansions apart from my psy and mystic. Its content that almost all lvls can do, all classes, builds, and gear lvls can do, on their own if they wish to, and they didn't even really have to add much to the game to make it work.

Yet they went and added tons of new quest mats, made a whole new system of rewards that all pretty much rock, and its pretty uncomplicated compared to some of the systems in the game.

Its still not perfect as actually refreshing quests if you'd rather use your rewards for more quests than trade for goodies isn't possible unless you are low level, but I look forward to that change in the future.

If in other posts this week I sounded like I don't like the game anymore, well here is one thing that I think they did wonderfully.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · April 2011

"The problem with this logic is that you are getting both the dq points AND the money, not just one or the other the way it was meant to be. Want the item? You lose out on the profit you could have from marking up dq items. Want the money? You don't have dq points to get the item. People were selling them for a profit so clearly selling the rank items was more profitable than selling marked up dq items for some people. That isn't okay, you pick one or the other is the way its meant to be. Exploiting the glitch is a bannable offense anyway.

Hudini - Harshlands wrote: »

You apparently have as much knowledge about in game economy and merchanting as someone who never played the game before. Honest to god people, if you dont know anything about either then dont post here.

_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Many people were making profit on marking up the dq items. I think you have failed logic. Seriously dq points in increments of 35 were selling for 11k. It just also happens you can move 1 item faster than 667 (30p) or 572 (35p). So 20k points / 35= 572 (rounded up)*11k= 6.29mill and medals sold for 5 mill.

Edit

Yes now they are making HUGE profits from selling the medals no longer obtainable. That is a fail on GM part. I have already stated 5x in other threads proper way to handle this. Make each lvl 100 character only able to obtain a max of 19 medals. Problem solved.

Where in the post did I say how it affected the larger in game economy? I'm saying that if you vendor DQ items you CANNOT turn around and sell the dq item you just vendored. IF you sell the DQ ITEM to someone, they aren't going to sell it right back to you for less than they paid for it. So you physically DO NOT get the dq points for that EXACT DQ item. That is how it's supposed to work. When you kill a mob and come across a specific DQ item you are supposed to EITHER get dq points for vendoring the item OR coin for selling it to another player. Some people do not have the hardware to run a cat shop continuously and don't like the auction house for whatever reason. For those people selling the medals in one shot for 5 mil is more profitable than selling individual items because the time they lose making coin whatever other way they do things isn't worth the extra one mil or so it takes to sell off the dq items. I know plenty of people like this and the in game economy has a multitude of different transaction types going on at any moment.

Also you're example brought up another exploiter. The person BUYING the medals. If you sold your DQ coin, you're supposed to be locked out of the only current viable way of obtaining a medal. You are not supposed to have one, period. So if you sold those items for 6 mil coins and then bought a medal for 5, you've unfairly obtained an item for the dq points system and made a profit.

I'm not arguing the effects on the economy here. What I'm saying is it took advantage of the DQ points systems original intention, which was a way to give you something to do with the DQ items besides just selling them off to other players for the all but obsolete DQ Quest. They were meant to offer rewards (similar to the way the DQ quest offers rewards) for people who did with the GMs wanted with them rather than merch them that was only obtainable as a reward for doing things the way GMS wanted you to do them. Whether or not they had a large impact on the economy is irrelevant.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver · April 2011

Kieve - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Simply put:

NO.
Now for the logic -

First off, this whole "PWE is a business" excuse needs to die. Immediately, if not a year and a half ago. It comes up every time they do something boneheaded (especially if the vast majority of the community sees it as "greedy") and is basically a carte-blanche excuse for the company to do whatever the hell they want to whoever's left in-game. As a way of thinking, this is absolutely unacceptable.

MMOs are not designed to be a "revolving door" business. An intelligent company looks for ways to keep existing customers, encourage them to continue subscribing / buying points (zen) / playing their game. The fundamental difference is in how customers are treated. Here, it's been blatantly clear for a very long time that PWE as a company looks primarily to its bottom line, considers its "players" only in so far as their purchases are concerned, and more or less has the business philosophy of a mosquito - suck it all dry, and move on to the next victim. An intelligent company, on the other paw, regards its customers as players and seeks to encourage them to continue playing the game. From this viewpoint, it's less about the cash flow and more about creating an experience people will enjoy and continue paying for.

To be fair: I'm undecided on the issues right now, and I certainly support giving the forum mods and admins (especially Frankie) the benefit here - obviously, they're not the decision-makers for the company, and it's pointless to direct any rage at them. But it needs to be made clear:
Just because PWE "is a business" does not excuse them for treating players like dirt.

Is that happening here? I don't know. I simply want this godawful excuse to die.

I agree with most of this.

However, frankie is quite literally the only contact we have with the company at large. If some jackass from another department decided to make something universally seen as "moronic" a new law (which has been done twice this week alone), and frankie's job is pretty much to report said law to the public...who do we lash out to?

Answer: we lash out as far as we can reach, which in this case is the CM (frankie).

Frankie himself is far from being innocent, to be fair. He's deliberately misled, ignored and even tried to deflect information away, and in some cases, flat out lied. He's also unresponsive/highly elusive and doesn't engage the community at all.

Spoons was fired for being human, frankie replaced him because he's a robot.

Faisk - Heavens Tear · April 2011

Illuminatos - Sanctuary wrote: »

Some people in this game need to understand when changing or adding codes to a program you can unwillingly and unknowingly effect other codes of the program. The dq/dp rewards scheme has been altered (rank 9 medal removed) to stop people whom where exploiting a code variable that allowed them to make them tradeable.This variable had the potential to take an already rigid economy and shake it to the highest its ever been. Logical thinking would show that they infact removed them to attempt to keep the economy from peaking, an act or i should say an attempt to look after the games players.

Also has anyone even coincidered the possibility that once the problem has safely been resolved that they will reinstate the rank 9 badges to the Dp system. Or have you all been to busy E-raging about the company capitolising on us or accusing them of being money hungry. I will not deny that some out there has become a really wealthy people because of this game but hey it is a buisness. Plus this is a free game if they didnt make some form of profitt how could we enjoy the new perks the new expansions or the new items..... Answer: we couldnt. the game would have failed with in the first year.

All im saying is those raging about this can coincider 2 things.. 1) It's a game for petes sake, not reality. 2) Buisness is all about profitt, and to the company PWI is buisness. The better they do the better it gets for the gamers.

I personaly say well done to them for stoping Exploiters from capitolising. Just as they stop those random few from exploiting a glitch that was allowing players to duplicate coin, after the introduction to the raging tide update. Have faith people.

Could not agree more. I have faith on PWI business, I think their decisions are NOT only meant to increase their bank account numbers but also to make our gameplaying easier and funnier (: as you said, it's all about business, yes, but PWI makes it on a way we both (company and players) end up happy b:victoryb:victoryb:victoryb:victory

TheDan - Sanctuary · April 2011

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

That's nice, but apparently you don't understand how things work at PWI.

I have no grief against PWI GMs, but PWE developers and PWI management suck and are responsible for a horrible lack of consistency and continuity as a separate version of the game that has done almost nothing beneficial in the last 2+ years...

Not to mention the Dev's excuse for not being able to fix bugs and other game play issues is because they were hard at work on the Genesis expansion. An expansion that added no end game content and no value to the game. New classes and a useless base, yay. I still haven't seen half the content they promised us in the expansion yet, like the Castles, Dungeons, or Base wars.

Ruumatsuku - Lost City · April 2011

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not to mention the Dev's excuse for not being able to fix bugs and other game play issues is because they were hard at work on the Genesis expansion. An expansion that added no end game content and no value to the game. New classes and a useless base, yay. I still haven't seen half the content they promised us in the expansion yet, like the Castles, Dungeons, or Base wars.

They should of added more effort to fix those bugs and glitches... Yeah I never seen any of those new additions $:\$ *shakes fist*

Ursadonus - Sanctuary · April 2011

thedan - Sanctuary wrote: »

not To Mention The Dev's Excuse For Not Being Able To Fix Bugs And Other Game Play Issues Is Because They Were Hard At Work On The Genesis Expansion. An Expansion That Added No End Game Content And No Value To The Game. New Classes And A Useless Base, Yay. I Still Haven't Seen Half The Content They Promised Us In The Expansion Yet, Like The Castles, Dungeons, Or Base Wars.

+11111111111111111

Give the GMs/Company a break. At least this once

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