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    • @ the DQ change...makes me wonder.

    Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited April 2011 in General Discussion
    PWI says that they removed the medals of glory because there was an exploit that made them tradeable. Well, here's the thing. Almost every single other DQ reward item could also be sold. That isn't important though.

    On my server, DQ points sold for around 500-600 coins for one DQ. Medals of Glory sold for around 10 million. This means that the price of DQ items was roughly proportional to medal of glory. Even *that* isn't the important part, however.

    Here's the important part. DQ drops are TRADEABLE. This means that even if there was no exploit to make medals of glory tradeable, it wouldn't make any difference, because people would just buy DQ items and trade them in for medals instead. The fact that medals could be made tradeable was just a mere conveinience, or for people who were completely unaware that the DQ rewards system existed.

    So basically, since all DQ items are tradeable, and all DQ points come from DQ items, it makes NO difference that the medals could be traded except in that particular case of selling to people who didn't know DQ rewards existed.

    If you didn't know there was a DQ rewards system, I'm pretty sure you're not invested into the game enough to even care about getting R9.

    Also, I will not be surprised at all if this week's sale is a rank sale, with medals of glory also in the shop.

    So what is the real reason for the removal of *only* the medal of glory? Someone clear this up for me pls :/
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
    Post edited by Burnout - Harshlands on

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    • Posts: 200 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      exactly...

      The real reason is that they are putting medals in the boutique for 25 gold again probably
    • Posts: 20 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      clearly they would take the medals out of the dq rewards so that they could make more money selling them in the cash shop/
    • Posts: 624 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Charms from event gold is next obviously
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      f:sneakyf:sneakyf:sneaky
    • Posts: 1,245 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
      Also, I will not be surprised at all if this week's sale is a rank sale, with medals of glory also in the shop.

      Which would be a great way to mitigate the sudden inflation that would otherwise happen, yes. I've stated my feelings about rank sales and such before, but this is an instance where they may be justified.
      Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
      So what is the real reason for the removal of *only* the medal of glory? Someone clear this up for me pls :/

      Because it's trivial for a player to make this item which is meant to be non-tradeable into a tradeable item. I know of no quests to make the other items available into tradeable forms. Am I missing something?

      I don't see them going through the pain of making items "permanently untradeable, period" over this. It's more likely they'll show up in the Event Boutique soonish.

      Speaking of adding them to the Event Boutique, it's been stated a number of times that they'll be overhauling it soon. So, if they were to just move them in there tonight, they'd have even MORE people QQing because nothing else got changed in it...

      They can't win this one, but they handled it as gracefully as they could (so far) without enabling people to flood the market with them. We'll see what the sale is, and for once I hope it's a rank sale.
      [sigpic][/sigpic]
      MuSHRooMS - Lost City (currently inviting new members) b:victory
      WeAreMuSHRooMS.com
    • Posts: 2,585 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Fintan - Lost City wrote: »

      Because it's trivial for a player to make this item which is meant to be non-tradeable into a tradeable item. I know of no quests to make the other items available into tradeable forms. Am I missing something?

      So what's to stop a player from just buying DQ items and trading for a medal of glory? Points go for around 10 mil for 20000 points, this meant that it made no difference whether or not medals of glory are tradable or not, since if no one used the exploit to trade medals I'd simply just buy Dq points instead and trade them in for medals.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

      I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
    • Posts: 1,245 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
      So what's to stop a player from just buying DQ items and trading for a medal of glory? Points go for around 10 mil for 20000 points, this meant that it made no difference whether or not medals of glory are tradable or not, since if no one used the exploit to trade medals I'd simply just buy Dq points instead and trade them in for medals.

      THAT is how it's supposed to work. You're not supposed to be able to trade the resultant item, however. People found a trivial way to do so. PWI fixed it the best they could without devving and QAing game changes.

      Give them a chance to actually get a new item into the game or add a "permanently untradeable, period" flag to items or whatever.
      [sigpic][/sigpic]
      MuSHRooMS - Lost City (currently inviting new members) b:victory
      WeAreMuSHRooMS.com
    • Posts: 197 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Fintan - Lost City wrote: »
      THAT is how it's supposed to work. You're not supposed to be able to trade the resultant item, however. People found a trivial way to do so. PWI fixed it the best they could without devving and QAing game changes.

      Give them a chance to actually get a new item into the game or add a "permanently untradeable, period" flag to items or whatever.


      They cannot make medals untradable for the simple fact:

      1. They come from cash shop

      2. They are reward for owning a TW land.
    • Posts: 1,200 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
      They cannot make medals untradable for the simple fact:

      1. They come from cash shop

      2. They are reward for owning a TW land.


      if that were true then the event boutique wouldnt exist. there is no such mechanic prohibiting any items to be ALL either tradeable or not exclusively.
    • Posts: 3,845 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      As I said, few people seem to realize that the excuse for taking it out, which is the "exploit," is complete bull since taking out the item entirely REWARDS those players because now they can sell the medals for EVEN MORE.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
      SkyKoC - How long is yours?
    • Posts: 197 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »
      if that were true then the event boutique wouldnt exist. there is no such mechanic prohibiting any items to be ALL either tradeable or not exclusively.

      I should have added that they don't want to recode the medals. Remember that d orbs weren't combinable so they removed them.
    • Posts: 1,245 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »
      if that were true then the event boutique wouldnt exist. there is no such mechanic prohibiting any items to be ALL either tradeable or not exclusively.

      Yup, they're actually totally distinct items, as far as I can tell. They just happen to have the same descriptions, pictures, functions, etc. But they don't stack. No good reason they can't do this with future medals. That just isn't likely to happen in this week's maintenance.
      [sigpic][/sigpic]
      MuSHRooMS - Lost City (currently inviting new members) b:victory
      WeAreMuSHRooMS.com
    • Posts: 143 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      -removed-
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      English is not my native language. Deal with it.
    • Posts: 260 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      i cant speak on your server, but on RT, i have seen them drop from 10 mill to under 7 mill in a matter of weeks

      this tells me that the glitch was definitely having a noticeable affect on the marketplace

      that being said, i dont agree with how they "fixed" it
    • Posts: 54 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
      PWI says that they removed the medals of glory because there was an exploit that made them tradeable.

      DQ drops are TRADEABLE. This means that even if there was no exploit to make medals of glory tradeable, it wouldn't make any difference, because people would just buy DQ items and trade them in for medals instead.


      You are correct Burnout. frankieraye has lied (again) to the entire PWI community. Claiming that this has anything to do with the medals being tradeable is a bold faced lie.

      This decision was based entirely upon profits. Anyone that wishes to argue that fact is either an employee, or an idiot (quite possibly both). It is not uncommon for PWE to slap its player base in the face, but this time they have upped the ante. This time you'll be lucky if all that hits your face is a slap.

      b:beatenup
    • Posts: 349 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      i would just like some honesty. i think the players at least deserve that

      "Dear PWI, we have removed the medals of glory from the DQ rewards list because we realized that when you farm them we dont not make money off of you. we will reinstate them shortly in the cash shop. pull down your pants and bend over slowly because YOU are addicted to OUR game and IWE are the pitchers YOURE the catchers. we will also be posting guides on how to make a professional job resume with pro tips on how to fill out an application because you will need a second job to buy the lube (that we our conveniently having a sale on in this weeks cash shop do to popular demand) or this is really going to hurt"
    • Posts: 42 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Q:
      wouldn't making the medals unstackable fix the problem?
      n i think that would be a really simple code
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      tOtOty | Heavens Tear VenoMANcer | (Cow) TotalSin
    • Posts: 152 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      TOtOty - Heavens Tear wrote: »
      Q:
      wouldn't making the medals unstackable fix the problem?
      n i think that would be a really simple code

      yeah i was thinking about that as well XD but i bet people would QQ over how those medals take up space in invent b:chuckle
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 42 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Irdis - Sanctuary wrote: »
      yeah i was thinking about that as well XD but i bet people would QQ over how those medals take up space in invent b:chuckle

      its better to take a space than not having them at all lol
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      tOtOty | Heavens Tear VenoMANcer | (Cow) TotalSin
    • Posts: 3,765 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      changing the limit to a stack to 1 is also extremely easy to code.
      of course it does nothing for the company's profit margin.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 42 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »
      changing the limit to a stack to 1 is also extremely easy to code.
      of course it does nothing for the company's profit margin.

      GREED is an ugly sin b:laugh

      n btw mostly its not even a code its just a config file where they have to change a 1 to 0 :P
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      tOtOty | Heavens Tear VenoMANcer | (Cow) TotalSin
    • Posts: 160 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      I posted a comment on this issue already here but some of the additional comments in this thread made me do a bit more thinking on the numbers.


      When the value of Dragon Quest items were initially dropped, it was a 20% hit, which I think worked out to 270 coins per Dragon Point. This was done ostensibly to dissuade gold-farming, because at 20% less, the DQ items were deemed not profitable enough to have gold-farmers invest the effort into making enough coins from them to sell for real-world money outside of the game.


      Then, to reward PWI players, the Dragon Point system was added which in theory only rewarded the legitimate player, even if they did buy the DQ items to earn DP.

      For a Medal:

      - 20,000 DP x 270 c / DP = 5,600,000 coins


      If the Medals cannot be traded, then this is the ultimate value of a Medal, with players personally deciding if they want to spend more than 270 coins per DP to get their personal Medal for their personal Armour (even the Rank IX Armor cannot be bought or sold). If they want to spend more, they can, but they cannot make any money off of the Medal or the Armor, so it is a choice that only affects the cost of their armor.


      However, now come the coin-farmers (and believe me there is no greater bane for an MMO than these locusts) who say, "Hmm, if the Medals can be traded, we can buy the DP for about 6m and sell the Medals for 10m." and off they go, farming DQ items like there is no tomorrow because this is now a pure profit item (that is the DP are). They can farm DQ for the points directly, or scour the stalls for low cost DP items and convert all of these items and Dragon Points into high value items that can command DOUBLE what they used to be able to make on just the DQ items alone!


      People, if you are hearing me, this is a VERY serious issue, and not something that should be ignored. PWI is right to do something about it, however I do agree with everyone that the way they did it was unfortunate at best.

      At least say something like, "Hold on to your Dragon Points, as we will solve this ASAP and get the Medals back into the DP or Event Boutique as soon as we have eliminated the potential concern." Of course, if they are not going to do that, then say "therefore, we have had to eliminate Medals from the DP system altogether and we apologize to everyone who was using DP to get Medals." As far as I can tell, they have said neither of these things, which has left a lot of people angry and a lot of other people hoping for some kind of indication as to what is going to happen next. The absence of any official responses to this issue in almost 2 days is not helping things either.

      Personally, I hope they can get this worked out and everyone can go back to earning DP again. I actually like them for the 50,000 DP Event Gold card, but that's just me. I can certainly appreciate how upset I would be if at 49,500 DP someone said, "yeah, the Event Gold card is no longer in the Dragon Point rewards list", especially if there was no word as to if or when the card was coming back!

      I hope this all gets resolved soon to everyone's satisfaction.

      Good Luck!
      Dante: "Cute is a relative term."
    • Posts: 42 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      @Bosk - Sanctuary too long to quote
      its not like ppl want this problem to remain it just look like they took something from the peeps rather than fixing it

      i mean Imagine if one of the packs went wrong n started to always give 100% rare items will they remove it or call for an immediate maintenance?
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
      tOtOty | Heavens Tear VenoMANcer | (Cow) TotalSin
    • Posts: 160 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      TOtOty - Heavens Tear wrote: »
      @Bosk - Sanctuary too long to quote
      its not like ppl want this problem to remain it just look like they took something from the peeps rather than fixing it

      i mean Imagine if one of the packs went wrong n started to always give 100% rare items will they remove it or call for an immediate maintenance?

      I agree ... the way they did it kind of sucks, but I think something probably HAD to be done. The difficulty is in not being more detailed in what is being done to fix it. There was an image in one thread about a Medal of Glory being sold in a CatShop for 150m!!! If people think these things are never coming back, someone might be tempted to pay that, and that simply plays into the coin-farmers' hands. I hope that the person asking 150m was a legit player with delusions of grandeur and that no one actually paid that much, but the potential for those coins to be used to lure other coin-farmers to PWI exists, and that is a much bigger concern than the medals being unavailable for a few days or even a couple of weeks.

      Again, it is the lack of communication that is the most frustrating.

      Good Luck!
      Dante: "Cute is a relative term."
    • Posts: 349 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      i dont really see the big problem with them being tradable. im not one of the people that glitched the thing, i didnt even know they could be glitched untill they were taken away. but even if they werent tradable people still buy DQ points off other players to buy the medals. so even if they do fix the problem and reistate them.... "WTS>20k DQ points" whats the difference?
    • Posts: 160 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »
      i dont really see the big problem with them being tradable. im not one of the people that glitched the thing, i didnt even know they could be glitched untill they were taken away. but even if they werent tradable people still buy DQ points off other players to buy the medals. so even if they do fix the problem and reistate them.... "WTS>20k DQ points" whats the difference?


      The difference is that the original reason for Dragon Quest items going down in price was to avoid coin-farming. To compensate, Dragon Points were given in place of the 20% reduced value, but Dragon Points cound not be cashed for coins. If this 20% can now be turned back into coins, the coin-farmers have everything they need to set up shop in PWI like they have in PW-CN.

      I am pretty sure that is the bottom line, but it would be nice to hear it from a GM.

      Good Luck!
      Dante: "Cute is a relative term."
    • Posts: 577 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      SeaCrit_Sin - Harshlands wrote: »
      You are correct Burnout. frankieraye has lied (again) to the entire PWI community. Claiming that this has anything to do with the medals being tradeable is a bold faced lie.

      This decision was based entirely upon profits. Anyone that wishes to argue that fact is either an employee, or an idiot (quite possibly both). It is not uncommon for PWE to slap its player base in the face, but this time they have upped the ante. This time you'll be lucky if all that hits your face is a slap.

      b:beatenup

      OMG you made me lmao so hard !,

      The DQ system was a compensation for the drop in dq value and it took 8 month of QQing in the forum before we have seen the light of that project. Suck it up 25$ for a few medal is way less then the 450$ of chip you need.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 152 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      TCHP - Lost City wrote: »
      OMG you made me lmao so hard !,

      The DQ system was a compensation for the drop in dq value and it took 8 month of QQing in the forum before we have seen the light of that project. Suck it up 25$ for a few medal is way less then the 450$ of chip you need.

      except the fact that 19 medals at 25 $ ea (i beleive thats what they used to cost in the rep sale) - full set would require 475 golds, so I cant see how is that less -_-;
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    • Posts: 197 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      I was under the impression that PWI was the only one with dragon point system because we dont hardly have gold farmers.

      Medals were selling for about 5 mill. there wasnt a profit on them by much if they would have just sold the dq instead.
    • Posts: 564 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
      I was under the impression that PWI was the only one with dragon point system because we dont hardly have gold farmers.


      Yeah and not having gold/coin farmers is a good thing:

      Whether it be Tokens of Best Luck (Blue) for 300K
      http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/profile/6c/ce/6cce0449a32d0e85befdbc5c9502137a1299024465.jpg

      No gold in the auction house (also note the player asking to buy gold in the trade chat)
      http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/profile/7c/f2/7cf2e9e6994786423f19b32d9c56e93f1299018522.jpg

      Or coin sellers (gold spammers/sellers) in every major town:
      http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/profile/7f/df/7fdfb292110cf9abf8c18220b4bb0c761299017515.jpg

      PWI -- we'd hope they care. I know PW Malaysia doesn't give a s@#$.
      Time won't wake/make you wiser, but it will definitely wound you.
      b i t . l y /
      I was a man of ideas and action, but at the same time a gentleman. -- S a Z T u R
      Subtly is never my strong point, but I like to find the gaps in walls and the cracks in bricks.
      Are you kind of seeing what I'm saying. b:bye
    • Posts: 79 Arc User
      edited April 2011
      Bosk - Sanctuary wrote: »
      The difference is that the original reason for Dragon Quest items going down in price was to avoid coin-farming. To compensate, Dragon Points were given in place of the 20% reduced value, but Dragon Points cound not be cashed for coins. If this 20% can now be turned back into coins, the coin-farmers have everything they need to set up shop in PWI like they have in PW-CN.

      I am pretty sure that is the bottom line, but it would be nice to hear it from a GM.

      Good Luck!


      I see your point! Instead of GMs DOING their job and banning botters and such they are going to punish legit players who spend days farming DQ cause of god awful drop rates. Do you even think before you make long ridiculous posts of BS?

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