Give the GMs/Company a break. At least this once

Illuminatos - Sanctuary
Illuminatos - Sanctuary Posts: 5 Arc User
edited April 2011 in General Discussion
Some people in this game need to understand when changing or adding codes to a program you can unwillingly and unknowingly effect other codes of the program. The dq/dp rewards scheme has been altered (rank 9 medal removed) to stop people whom where exploiting a code variable that allowed them to make them tradeable.This variable had the potential to take an already rigid economy and shake it to the highest its ever been. Logical thinking would show that they infact removed them to attempt to keep the economy from peaking, an act or i should say an attempt to look after the games players.

Also has anyone even coincidered the possibility that once the problem has safely been resolved that they will reinstate the rank 9 badges to the Dp system. Or have you all been to busy E-raging about the company capitolising on us or accusing them of being money hungry. I will not deny that some out there has become a really wealthy people because of this game but hey it is a buisness. Plus this is a free game if they didnt make some form of profitt how could we enjoy the new perks the new expansions or the new items..... Answer: we couldnt. the game would have failed with in the first year.

All im saying is those raging about this can coincider 2 things.. 1) It's a game for petes sake, not reality. 2) Buisness is all about profitt, and to the company PWI is buisness. The better they do the better it gets for the gamers.

I personaly say well done to them for stoping Exploiters from capitolising. Just as they stop those random few from exploiting a glitch that was allowing players to duplicate coin, after the introduction to the raging tide update. Have faith people.
Post edited by Illuminatos - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • krisnda
    krisnda Posts: 4,655 Community Moderator
    edited April 2011
    -_- ok, i'll reopen this thread, but I will close it if it gets out of hand, just letting you know.
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  • Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide
    Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Very well said could not agree with you more has got to a stage of stupidty half the community wants one thing half wants the other and then theres the trolls that are looking for responces... Gets quite annoying to see when they do something the community has asked for for them to be shot down.

    QQ tokenz is to expensive ... Pack sale... QQ pack sale ruins economy

    QQ I can not Multi client as I dont have two pc's... Edit multi client rule... QQ now I can't have 8 accounts open.

    QQ you stole our tw mony... return tw money... QQ Now we cant TW as big guild takes map.


    Seriously make up your mind what you guys want and stick with it all this QQin is giving me a headache can only imagen how they feel
    02/07/2011 - Lost paitence with PWI sold all my gear bought packs and wasted my coin till it was gone... goodbye PWI b:bye
  • Freizer - Lost City
    Freizer - Lost City Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Krisnda wrote: »
    -_- ok, i'll reopen this thread, but I will close it if it gets out of hand, just letting you know.

    It's not nice to preemptively shut a thread that is actually well written, not flaming, and more importantly pro-gms, game, existence of devs in general

    On another note, while I do not agree with you whole heartedly, I support the existence of an opposing opinion that is not troll bait
    Lost City Sage barb and Retired Coven Marshal.
  • Judo_ - Sanctuary
    Judo_ - Sanctuary Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I applaud their efforts as well. b:victory
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  • krisnda
    krisnda Posts: 4,655 Community Moderator
    edited April 2011
    Freizer - Lost City wrote: »
    It's not nice to preemptively shut a thread that is actually well written, not flaming, and more importantly pro-gms, game, existence of devs in general

    On another note, while I do not agree with you whole heartedly, I support the existence of an opposing opinion that is not troll bait
    That's why I decided to reopen it, it didn't do anything bad, yet. On another note, I'll just say that I think that the new multiclienting rules are a good thing.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    lol. I don't even know where to begin. I think I'll just end it with a:

    /facepalm
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Freizer - Lost City
    Freizer - Lost City Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Krisnda wrote: »
    That's why I decided to reopen it, it didn't do anything bad, yet. On another note, I'll just say that I think that the new multiclienting rules are a good thing.

    now make barb mo-hawks legal and I might just CS rank 9 b:thanks

    edit: Ohnoes Michael D: run away
    Lost City Sage barb and Retired Coven Marshal.
  • Aesthor - Heavens Tear
    Aesthor - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,845 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »
    lol. I don't even know where to begin. I think I'll just end it with a:

    /facepalm

    Anni packs was where it began...
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  • Illuminatos - Sanctuary
    Illuminatos - Sanctuary Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Krisnda wrote: »
    -_- ok, i'll reopen this thread, but I will close it if it gets out of hand, just letting you know.

    Thank you for reopening the thread. And i would expect nothing less then it to closed again if things got out of hand.

    And thank all whom post on the thread regardless of weather its agreeance or disagreence with the topic.


    P.s Remember this is a diplomatic discussion so i urge any one being flamed from either side to ignore it.
  • Kieve - Dreamweaver
    Kieve - Dreamweaver Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Simply put:
    NO.
    Now for the logic -

    First off, this whole "PWE is a business" excuse needs to die. Immediately, if not a year and a half ago. It comes up every time they do something boneheaded (especially if the vast majority of the community sees it as "greedy") and is basically a carte-blanche excuse for the company to do whatever the hell they want to whoever's left in-game. As a way of thinking, this is absolutely unacceptable.

    MMOs are not designed to be a "revolving door" business. An intelligent company looks for ways to keep existing customers, encourage them to continue subscribing / buying points (zen) / playing their game. The fundamental difference is in how customers are treated. Here, it's been blatantly clear for a very long time that PWE as a company looks primarily to its bottom line, considers its "players" only in so far as their purchases are concerned, and more or less has the business philosophy of a mosquito - suck it all dry, and move on to the next victim. An intelligent company, on the other paw, regards its customers as players and seeks to encourage them to continue playing the game. From this viewpoint, it's less about the cash flow and more about creating an experience people will enjoy and continue paying for.

    To be fair: I'm undecided on the issues right now, and I certainly support giving the forum mods and admins (especially Frankie) the benefit here - obviously, they're not the decision-makers for the company, and it's pointless to direct any rage at them. But it needs to be made clear:
    Just because PWE "is a business" does not excuse them for treating players like dirt.

    Is that happening here? I don't know. I simply want this godawful excuse to die.
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Illuminatos - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The dq/dp rewards scheme has been altered (rank 9 medal removed) to stop people whom where exploiting a code variable that allowed them to make them tradeable.This variable had the potential to take an already rigid economy and shake it to the highest its ever been.

    Do you even know how economy works? You think a few medals will do anything to the economy? They affect the economy no more being trade-able than if they were untrade-able. WTF does "shake an economy to the highest its ever been" even mean?
  • VonSabrewulf - Harshlands
    VonSabrewulf - Harshlands Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Medals from dq points have always been tradable, all you had to do was buy DQ points and npc them for teh points. This has nothing to do about the glicth it has to do with PWI making more money by putting the medals in the catshop instead of letting you farm them b:angry
  • _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver
    _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Seriously the gm SCREWED THIS ONE UP. No they don't deserve a break. If medals are not to be tradable and so everyone should only be able to obtain 19 vi dq shop. They could have limited each lvl 100 character to 19 medals PERIOD. No reason to remove or recode the item for "fixing". We know they can limit it for the simple fact they can limit jones blessing, anni mounts etc. You can see on the dq page how many of what item you have already received. This would have been a simple fix that didn't **** anyone over. Anyone who would have sold for coins would then be denied any later and have to buy them back.
    They are just greedy, lazy, and at the very least, incapable of thinking.
  • Illuminatos - Sanctuary
    Illuminatos - Sanctuary Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Do you even know how economy works? You think a few medals will do anything to the economy? They affect the economy no more being trade-able than if they were untrade-able. WTF does "shake an economy to the highest its ever been" even mean?

    please forgive my wordings and grammer, i have never really been that good at using the right words.

    But to answer the question what ment was that having them tradeable could have upset the current economy further.

    But discussions ive had since i made this post i do see ur point on how tradeable or not it couldnt really upset the economy as they would have been available through the DP system still.

    As for understanding the way economy works, Supply and demand. Offer people something they want at a low price, if it is popular, increase the pricing. The more something is in demand the more its worth can be increased.

    I am aware that there is a lot more behind the logic then that. Also willing to state alot of the buisness logic behind it i dont fully understand.
  • _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver
    _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Illuminatos - Sanctuary wrote: »
    please forgive my wordings and grammer, i have never really been that good at using the right words.

    But to answer the question what ment was that having them tradeable could have upset the current economy further.

    But discussions ive had since i made this post i do see ur point on how tradeable or not it couldnt really upset the economy as they would have been available through the DP system still.

    As for understanding the way economy works, Supply and demand. Offer people something they want at a low price, if it is popular, increase the pricing. The more something is in demand the more its worth can be increased.

    I am aware that there is a lot more behind the logic then that. Also willing to state alot of the buisness logic behind it i dont fully understand.

    There was no hurt to the economy.. you can buy dq and get medals, making them a tradable item via dq items anyway. You know not what you speak of.
  • Waterfal - Sanctuary
    Waterfal - Sanctuary Posts: 2,723 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I partially agree with you. Sure, pwe is a business. But a business takes care of their customers, they make sure their customers are happy and that way they'll get more customers.
    What pwe is doing atm is making a lot of people quit and making other people not particularly happy.

    Sure, you can't make EVERYONE happy. I understand. But I don't think some suggestions will make people QQ. Per example the +30 defense blessing added to the attack blessing.
    I do like the rulechange about multi-clienting personally.

    Packs are QQ anyway. People will QQ when they're on sale because of the gold price, people will QQ when they're not on sale because of the token price.

    But yeh. I hope pwe will lisen to their customers. b:surrender

    Also I agree with Kieve,
    and I certainly support giving the forum mods and admins (especially Frankie) the benefit here - obviously, they're not the decision-makers for the company, and it's pointless to direct any rage at them.
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  • Illuminatos - Sanctuary
    Illuminatos - Sanctuary Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    This is good having people get their voices heard in a diplomatic way. Im begining to understand the issue alot more then i did. Keep the posts comming and get your voice heard.
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Anni packs was where it began...

    Change it back. Change your siggie back. CHANGE IT BACK TO ITS FORMER WONDERFUL GLORY, I NEED YOUR OLD SIGGY IT MADE THE FORUMS WORTH READING PLEASE!!!!!!!! :(
  • FallenSnow - Raging Tide
    FallenSnow - Raging Tide Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I think most of us here just agree that the tradeable Medal of Glory never exploited the economy. Its been indirect ALWAYS tradeable between players, due selling the DQ Mats.
    So everyone with brain should come to conclusion that this bug had totally ZERO effect on the economy. So what made them remove the medal of glory from the DQ-Site really? I think you can think of an answer yourself.

    Other then this, you are "still" lvl70. It doesnt touch you much yet, but soon you wont be able to catch up with the requirement of better gear+charm+shards. free2play-playerbase is the only one who will suffer here again, and you might be one of them.
    retired 11/11/2009 cause of packs. came back 8 months later just to realise it got worse. retired second time 10/11/2010.
  • AlysonRose - Heavens Tear
    AlysonRose - Heavens Tear Posts: 624 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I'm actually more annoyed at what they did to Gale Force, as its the only time I can remember in the last 2 and a half years that they actually went and made a skill go from 50% useful to 100% ****.

    Sure the complete eradication of one of the biggest in game markets that brought both low and high spenders together in perfect supply/demand harmony for the first time in years is truly moronic. Sure its been met with universal and pretty vocal outrage by the playerbase.

    But going one better and have an entire list of unreported changes to your new classes, one of which makes one of its only attack/control skills do little more than make all mobs in 14m run screaming away from you is really disappointing.

    Remember when you INCREASED the effect range of bubble of life? Remember when you finally let sins use teleport skills in instances? Increased the duration of both voodoos? Increased chi gain of bms and sins basic attacks? Enabled the use of soul of silence separate from soul of vengeance? Giving psys unpurgable buffs? Giving every debuff in the game to sins? 5aps? Crippling Soulforce stuns/seals/reflects? Soulburn?

    I guess turning ~50% chance to seal/freeze for 3 sec (actual chance and duration then and now still undocumented), when no one gave one complaint about it being OP, to a skill that basically makes every mob run away 60% of the time or nothing at all is way more of a balance priority than anything we and chinese players have railed at over and over again. Why nerf galeforce and leave thicket with pretty much 100% chance to seal AND freeze for about 10 seconds lmao. Did they get the skill mixed up?

    I don't even really take this game that seriously, so I can imagine what those that do are going though. Even when you are only moderately annoyed, you kind of feel the NEED to RAGE as loudly and as often as possible just to feel like someone somewhere that actually has some power to take note and go "hmm maybe pissing off everyone for the 30th time this year is starting to make us look bad"

    But it never happens. Next week you could log in after maint to find that bows are archer only, claws are bm only, armageddon does 30% less damage in pvp, all mobs have an extra 10 detection lvl and purify has 15% chance to fail and then what will you do? You will rage for a week then continue to go about you business forgetting it was any other way.
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  • L_y_n_x - Raging Tide
    L_y_n_x - Raging Tide Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    I agree that it's the "heads" of PWE that messed up. Not the GM's and mods here, so in a way I do understand them from even taking a break from reading all the QQing and not even trying to give a answer to a specific thread.

    I would probably even go as far as saying maybe 1 or 2 of those is as mad as us, players, about those changes. In some games, GM's aren't allowed in-game chars. In here, they can, so guess what..Eeven if they are GM's/mods, on their players, they cannot use their "powers" to spawn medlas in their backpacks. When they do play, they are subject to the same rules/changes as us.

    I do understand the suffering of players wanting absolutly to be R9 with best gear possible. The gear was made to be worn afterall. I , for one, ain't one of them. To "me", reputation is supposed to be earned. Now don't flame me, I want this to stay open. Some of us work in real life so in a way they do "earn" the reputation they buy in game. As whitout them, maybe we woudn't even have a game to play.

    I did like before the whole sale of rep thing, talking to players asking reputation. It would actually mean that : High rep = did quests/farmed tabbed fb's, where the darkness stamps were actually fun to get and getting a wraith badge was like "wow".

    I don't know (and sincerly, don't want to know) the % of cs'ers vs the non-cs'esr (or casual ones vs hardcore ones whatever) It takes both to run the game. Real cs'ers pay for the game, employees and such. And the non cs'ers are usually "slighty encouraged" to finally put "some" in game to be up to date. And it's fine, it is a free game and they don't beat it into people to "Put 100$ per month or go find something else to play"

    Maybe a tip for the heavy cash shoppers ? Yeah medals aren't available "for now".. Invest elsewhere. Stock up on those chips and badges, they won't stay that price forever. If u could have afford say..75 gold for 3 medals. With it now you can get 7500 badges (rounded up at 1 gold = 100 badges) .Yeah now they sell for 7k or so each. When they go off sale, they will go back near 25k each. 18k profit per badge x 7 500 = 135 mils PROFIT possible, enough to actually BUY 4 medals or so from other players. b:victory

    Maybe not all is lost after all. They are probably already having brainstorming session about "Ok that move pissed off quite a few, now, what do we do ?"

    So yeah, please lay off the heat a bit, give them at least till next maint b:chuckle
  • _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver
    _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    No it is the GMs. It's not like the devs read freaking forums. GM do not play the game. People QQing about medals being made tradable did this, GMs without thinking took them away. It was dumb of the people QQing and dumb on the part of GM. Making them tradable did not affect economy. If you can buy dq to get them, why not allow them to be tradable since DQ are tradable, not hard to understand.

    I will keep posting my fix to them not being tradable and meant only for you ..
    Make ability of getting medals a max count of 19 per lvl 100 character. Problem solved.
  • L_y_n_x - Raging Tide
    L_y_n_x - Raging Tide Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    .
    Make ability of getting medals a max count of 19 per lvl 100 character. Problem solved.

    I actually do like that solution and probably one that they will read and somewhat consider, or a close variation of it.

    It's simple, not that hard to code and would not mess economy. You did use the word "getting" as with DQ points and not "possesing" so it would keep the buying/selling possible.
  • AlysonRose - Heavens Tear
    AlysonRose - Heavens Tear Posts: 624 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Honestly I do appreciate what the GMs do for us. They added the dq points on their own, and people loved it. For most it was probably the ONLY positive change they had seen in months, and likely the only one they had EVER seen come directly from the minds of our lil slice of the PWE pie.

    People, trolls counting as 2/5th people as per usual, are only getting so upset at how you broke it because they were so in love with it. You jangled shiny keys in front of us then took them away without warning because some of us played with them wrong.

    A simple, "for now" or "until its resolved" would have saved soooo much nerdrage these last 24 hours. Pretty much anything other than "yoink!" and *runs away*

    I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people QQing aren't angry as much as dissapponted. If pwi were one of your good friends, and you saw them making truly random, seemingly self destructive, poor decisions that alienate them from their family/friends/customers wouldn't you hold a freaking INTERVENTION for them instead of asking everyone to give them a break?

    Its sad watching someone kill themselves slowly, when they don't see that they have a problem.

    SHORT VERSION: I've worked in customer service for over 3 years and when your product is far less than perfect or the only one out there, the last thing you need is to routinely **** off your customers like you have time and time again.
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  • Ceiba - Sanctuary
    Ceiba - Sanctuary Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    They just took down the medals of glory so they could sell them on the boutique for 25 golds, that excuse that frankie said is pure BS, as some people already mentioned buying the DQ points was actually cheaper than buying the tradeable medal so the bug had no real impact whatsoever.

    They just used any excuse to take down the medals from the DQ page so they could make more cash selling it from the boutique, o yea they even rewarded those that bug exploited in the process, go and try to buy a medal now, 35m and up b:bye
  • _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver
    _Aubree__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I actually do like that solution and probably one that they will read and somewhat consider, or a close variation of it.

    It's simple, not that hard to code and would not mess economy. You did use the word "getting" as with DQ points and not "possesing" so it would keep the buying/selling possible.

    Yea and if you happen to sell all the ones you made, you'd be *** out or have to buy them back form a player. Them being tradable would be a complete non-factor.
  • XVBx - Dreamweaver
    XVBx - Dreamweaver Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    lol, i find it kinda funny. when they first made getting rank 9 easyer, everyone QQed cause it made niv gear obsolete. now they have made it harder again (most likely only temporarily) and the QQ's begin again......

    seriously, its not the GMs fault that you ppl cant make up your minds -.-

    also, its a game......many ppl hav forgotten that.

    (prepares for onslaught of haters b:surrender)
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  • Hudini - Harshlands
    Hudini - Harshlands Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    logical thinking leads me to believe you are a moron.

    So what if the Medals are tradeable, YOU COULD ALWAYS JUST SELL THE DQs.

    What the medals did was stimulate the economy you ****** idiots, cash shoppers sold gold on the reg so they could buy something they could not get form the CS. You people need to get your heads out of your ***.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Marche - Harshlands wrote: »
    QUESTION

    who the hell r u?


    better question why do u have 42 posts and Forum mod.... ur not another i know all who really knows nothing Mod r u?

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1048071
  • Marche - Harshlands
    Marche - Harshlands Posts: 295 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1048071


    well that answers that ty Okeano

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