About the Token Scamming...
Comments
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A scammer's source of revenue is based on... well, scamming people. The most common ways are teles and Perfect Tokens. If people would just LOOK for 2 seconds at the prices of these things before they bought them, the scammer would have no profit. Eventually he will notice that he is getting no source of income by having his shop selling Teles for 100k, and have to drop down the price to 10k just so he can get some money. Or he could wait forever hoping a sucker comes by and doesn't check, and even then, if you are spending more than a certain % of coins from your character on an item(s) in a catshop, PWI will alert you and ask if you are willing to spend x amount of coins on this item.
In other words, no stupid people = no scammers able to make fast cash.
I'll put it in an example you seem to understand.
You cannot stop a rapist, but you can ward them off. Not wearing your iPod while you're walking means you can hear someone coming up behind you. Holding your keys inbetween your fingers gives you a weapon against them, and getting straight in your car and locking the doors right after on a dark night means they cannot get in to take advantage of you. You cannot stop a rapist, but you can TRY to prevent getting attacked if you act smart.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Happily forum married to Zannie again. >:O Haters gonna hate0 -
What a great analogy! I think I finally understand now:EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »In other words, no stupid people = no scammers able to make fast cash.
I'll put it in an example you seem to understand.
You cannot stop a rapist, but you can ward them off.
R*** Victims = Stupid People
And to think, I used to always solely blame the perpetrators, but thanks to your well-educated analogy I now understand that the victim is actually responsible for warding off the attacker. Brilliant stuff![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »In other words, no stupid people = no scammers able to make fast cash.
I'll put it in an example you seem to understand.
You cannot stop a rapist, but you can ward them off./QUOTE]
What a great analogy! I think I finally understand now:
**** Victims = Stupid People
And to think, I used to always solely blame the perpetrators, but thanks to your well-educated analogy I understand that the victim is responsible for warding off the attacker. Brilliant stuff!
I never said that. I said there are ways to try to prevent ****, just as there are ways to try to prevent scamming. I never said that **** victims are stupid people, but people who don't read the item names then QQ about getting "scammed" on this game are pretty dumb.
I'll put it in an example that doesn't bring out all the trolls that take things way out of context. If you are in a grocery store, don't you normally read the products you want to buy before you buy it? Shouldn't it be that way if you are buying something on the game?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Happily forum married to Zannie again. >:O Haters gonna hate0 -
People x_x It's not about the act of ****... It's about blaming the victim, rather than blaming the person committing the wrong doing. Good lord, I should have used Aster's example - none of you seem to have qualms about his example.Katzyn, level 101 Demon Veno
Kylenea, level 99 Demon Cleric
ForestSonata, level 6x Mystic
Proud wifeh of Yudai
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Courtesy of the amazing Forsakenx~0 -
Katzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »People x_x It's not about the act of ****... It's about blaming the victim, rather than blaming the person committing the wrong doing. Good lord, I should have used Aster's example - none of you seem to have qualms about his example.
Victim is a strong word to describe someone who is ignorant enough to not read before they buy.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Happily forum married to Zannie again. >:O Haters gonna hate0 -
Katz, I know you don't comprehend things very well, but just because the game is called "Perfect World" doesn't mean it's literally a perfect world.
"If people weren't trying to scam others, no one would get scammed, either" Thank you captain obvious.0 -
As in real life, there are people here who are bound and determined to erase any concept and notion of personal responsibility. To make the entire world a "Nanny State" which cares for our every need at the mere cost of losing our ability to think and make decisions for ourselves. I marvel sadly at these people and wonder/worry what the world will be like when they finally get their way.
In the mean time, there is a doctrine in law covering the sale of items called Caveat Emptor: Let the BUYER beware. The basic premise is that you are buying a product or property at your own risk and should personally examine and test for obvious defects and imperfections.
EVERY item has a written description which pops up upon hovering your mouse over the item (which you MUST do to buy the item). Unless a seller is able to change the pop-up description of an item, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a buyer who is actually awake at the time of the purchase, let alone who does his/her due diligence, to be tricked into buying something at a cat shop.
To, all the "Please protect us, because we're too stupid to protect ourselves" types: What is the maximum percentage of profit allowable on any particular item?
The only hard coded price per item in this game is the price for which an NPC will sell/buy an item. And since NPC's don't sell all items, we should, of course, use the NPC buy price marked on each item. So based on that, what is the maximum acceptable percentage of profit?
Before you answer, consider this: If any of you have ever sold an item for higher than your answer, then you are a hypocrite and your answer does not count.
So, what's it going to be? What is the maximum allowable mark-up on an item to be?What's the point of having a rapier wit if I can't use it to stab people? b:sin0 -
EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »Victim is a strong word to describe someone who is ignorant enough to not read before they buy.
Edit - rofl, copypaste fail. Lemme fix it XDvic.tim (vktm)
n.
One who is harmed or killed by another: a victim of a mugging.
A person who is tricked, swindled, or taken advantage of
Edit again - That worked. Anyway, victim is the correct word for a person who has been scammed.Katzyn, level 101 Demon Veno
Kylenea, level 99 Demon Cleric
ForestSonata, level 6x Mystic
Proud wifeh of Yudai
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Courtesy of the amazing Forsakenx~0 -
EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »I just guess I'm sick of seeing morons QQing on World Chat, so I will express my opinion here.
Maybe if you get a lot of sleep and drink plenty of fluids you will get over being sick?EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »A.) GMs will NOT refund you for not checking what you're buying unless it's something like the other player glitched the trade window so you didn't get anything out of the trade.
Actually, they will, if you can provide enough documentation.
Though I have to wonder how come the game does not have some way for them to automatically monitor such things (like giving them an alert when someone puts up a kitty shop with a problematic item in a problematic price range. An alert means someone could go investigate. Or they could have a log of these things or something.EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »B.) If the person doesn't specify that it is a Best Luck Token, they can sell regular tokens for whatever price they want. Whether or not people buy them for that price doesn't matter.
But the scam is when they do advertise that they are selling best luck tokens and they have a perfect luck token being sold for near the price of the best luck token.EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »So really, learn to read before you purchase anything for over 1mil and stop crying over your own mistakes.
Yes!
I would also advise learning to read. Reading is really quite handy.
It's just too bad you wrote that advice. Because, you know, only people that can already read will understand you.
But its great advice!!EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »Victim is a strong word to describe someone who is ignorant enough to not read before they buy.
And how about people that imagine they were reading one thing when they were actually reading something entirely different?0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »Yes!
I would also advise learning to read. Reading is really quite handy.
It's just too bad you wrote that advice. Because, you know, only people that can already read will understand you.
But its great advice!!
This made me crack up in an office and now I have people giving me strange looks.
Still, I thank you for the little extra brightness to my day this post gave me. b:chuckle0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »Yes!
I would also advise learning to read. Reading is really quite handy.
It's just too bad you wrote that advice. Because, you know, only people that can already read will understand you.
But its great advice!!
And how about people that imagine they were reading one thing when they were actually reading something entirely different?
Illiterate? Call 1-800-READ-NOW for help.What's the point of having a rapier wit if I can't use it to stab people? b:sin0 -
Katz, maybe you should go on Oprah and promote how tragic it is for those poor "victims" that lost their 4 million fake coins to a game that nobody will care about in 2 years. If we stick together Katz we really can make a perfect world!! I believe in you!!! b:cry0
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IT is not only fake coins, some people spend real life hard earned dollars on this game, so to say it is only a "fake," item is disingenuous. It is a micro-transaction, though it has no physical form, it is still worth a fluctuating amount of real money. This is why gold botting became illegal in many countries. That makes it real enough for perfect world to do something about scammers. Also, you assume everyone here is equal in reading abilities to everyone else. I know people here who don't speak enough english to really know what it says. I know another person who has poor eyesight. They have a tough time telling between the two and if you've never actually seen a token of best luck before, how would you know to look for the difference in the color scheme? To assume that it is simple to not get scammed is to assume everyone has the same cognitive abilities as you, which is simply not true. PWE has a responsibility to its players to ensure that they are doing something about the problem and acting swiftly to minimize scams because despite what you may personally feel about the problem they have a contractual responsibility to ensure that their ToS are being followed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Silvy for the superb sig
VenusArmani's word of the moment: Expand your Vocabulary, Expand your horizons!
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=17992481&postcount=189
Pusillanimous:
1) lacking courage or resolution; cowardly; faint-hearted
2) Proceeding from or indicating a cowardly spirit0 -
TBH I bought a token of luck for 4.8 mill coins about 3 weeks or so ago. I don't usually fall for such things but that night i was about to log off and was extremely tired. I did take a screen shot and submit it. No I did not WC the loss.
It would be nice if those catshop, cause I know they are alts, got IP banned. But nothing was done as I now see 5 or more cat shops set up advertising Best Luck but selling regular tokens.
Cons take advantage of people in less than an ideal mental state. Many cons are played on elderly. Try to think of it in those terms when blaming the person being scammed. I've never heard anyone say, "It's their fault they got old and aren't as quick mentally as they used to be".0 -
I report them, they get banned, and we all continue playing as we did.Currently: pwcalc.com/b4c92dacf1da8c210
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Gotta love how these threads bring out all the scammers and people who "think" they are too smart to ever be scammed themselves to lay the blame on the victims.
Anyone can fall prey to a scam when under the right conditions. A host of reasons can lead to missing a step in the buy/trade process that leaves one open to a scam. One can be tired, sick, hurried, intoxicated, over-anxious, distracted, etc... No one can be 100% vigilant 100% of the time.
People who think they are too smart to ever fall for something rarely are.0 -
ahh scammmm b:angry
token scam
championship scroll (ressurect scroll) scam b:angry
some ppl just BLAH0 -
RainbowVidel - Sanctuary wrote: »If people are too lazy (or not smart enough) to look at the item's description to verify what it is, then they deserve to be scammed, in my personal opinion.
I agree with you. If you are about to spend over 1mil on an item...pay attention to what you want to buy.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Move along..move along0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually, they will, if you can provide enough documentation.
Though I have to wonder how come the game does not have some way for them to automatically monitor such things (like giving them an alert when someone puts up a kitty shop with a problematic item in a problematic price range. An alert means someone could go investigate. Or they could have a log of these things or something.
Some people do not realise they are getting scammed until it is too late to provide documentation. Also if you are buying an item in a catshop with a certain % of your coins you have in your inventory, PWI alerts you with asking if you want to spend x amount of coins.
But the scam is when they do advertise that they are selling best luck tokens and they have a perfect luck token being sold for near the price of the best luck token.
That was a different example, when people have catshops, sometimes the title only says "S>Token" and for some reason, people still fall for it. But yes, that is another scam they are doing, which I was talking about also.
Yes!
I would also advise learning to read. Reading is really quite handy.
It's just too bad you wrote that advice. Because, you know, only people that can already read will understand you.
But its great advice!!
Thanks for you sarcasm. But I meant reading the item description.
And how about people that imagine they were reading one thing when they were actually reading something entirely different?
Most people like that (dyslexic), myself included, learn to re-read everything they read a few times over.
Anyway,
My original post wasn't necessary about getting scammed, but it was about all the people who are on WC and the forums QQing that they are scammed out of their millions, when they could easily have just read the item. People who KNOW how much an item costs, are of the same reading abilities as I am, can think properly and aknowledge when an item is overpriced, yet do not think to look at their items before they buy. That is what is getting on my nerves.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Happily forum married to Zannie again. >:O Haters gonna hate0 -
Actually, yes, you did. I'm not cynical enough to believe you did it deliberately, but nevertheless, it was your analogy:EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »I never said that. I said there are ways to try to prevent ****, just as there are ways to try to prevent scamming. I never said that **** victims are stupid people
So, here we are in the conclusion portion of Part 1 of the analogy, where you have explained that people who get scammed are stupid, and that it is their responsibility to stop being stupid and thus stop the scamming...EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »In other words, no stupid people = no scammers able to make fast cash.
...and now here you're bridging the 2 parts of the analogy, stating that the above example has the same basic structure, and conclusion, as what's to follow...EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »I'll put it in an example you seem to understand.
...and finally here's Part 2 of the analogy, where you begin to list all the various things **** victims should do in order to prevent ****.EmeryFlower - Dreamweaver wrote: »You cannot stop a rapist, but you can ward them off.
So, yeah, you state that scam victims are stupid people because they get scammed, and that potential **** targets are smarter because they take steps to avoid getting *****.
Except, of course, that some people DO get *****, which according to your analogy makes them just like stupid scam victims.
I mean, yeah, I get it. You didn't mean to argue that. But you did.
If it makes you feel any better, though, you're by no means alone. Victim blaming is endemic to most of western society, and there are tons of people who share your views. Ask any **** victim and they'll tell you that while most people won't ever say it to their face, nevertheless they will certainly say it behind their back and argue exactly what you're arguing when no victims are around.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
I don't care what any of you say, there is ZERO TOLERANCE for someone falsely advertising a best luck on their shop title and putting in a regular token then having the balls to say the person should have looked. You should have never falsely advertised to begin with and I hope you enjoy your perm bans.Currently: pwcalc.com/b4c92dacf1da8c210
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WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually, yes, you did. I'm not cynical enough to believe you did it deliberately, but nevertheless, it was your analogy:
So, here we are in the conclusion portion of Part 1 of the analogy, where you have explained that people who get scammed are stupid, and that it is their responsibility to stop being stupid and thus stop the scamming...
...and now here you're bridging the 2 parts of the analogy, stating that the above example has the same basic structure, and conclusion, as what's to follow...
...and finally here's Part 2 of the analogy, where you begin to list all the various things **** victims should do in order to prevent ****.
So, yeah, you state that scam victims are stupid people because they get scammed, and that potential **** targets are smarter because they take steps to avoid getting *****.
Except, of course, that some people DO get *****, which according to your analogy makes them just like stupid scam victims.
I mean, yeah, I get it. You didn't mean to argue that. But you did.
If it makes you feel any better, though, you're by no means alone. Victim blaming is endemic to most of western society, and there are tons of people who share your views. Ask any **** victim and they'll tell you that while most people won't ever say it to their face, nevertheless they will certainly say it behind their back and argue exactly what you're arguing when no victims are around.
I may have made an analogy, but I did not carry over the part where I said scammed people were stupid, and that may be my fault for not specifying it. I was trying to compare how preventing things may or may not stop something from happening, not about people being stupid.
In other words, I was not comparing the VICTIMS in both events, but PREVENTION.
So please stop playing on the fact that I can't write out what I'm thinking in my brain, and stop posting about the **** to scamming comparsion. The point of my thread was me not understanding why people stand around and cry about getting scammed and wondering why they don't look at the item name before they buy it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Happily forum married to Zannie again. >:O Haters gonna hate0 -
In other words, please ignore the gaping hole in my analogy that I failed to notice while I furiously back pedal from putting such a loaded topic into a game forum to begin with...as well as trying to turn around and state that I was on the side of people saying it's scam victims fault anyway for not preventing it themselves b:lipcurl
indeed.Lost City Sage barb and Retired Coven Marshal.0 -
Let's all just calm down and watch two women kiss each other. Then buy Zan's tokens for 5m each0
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I agree. Nobody Deserves to be scammed. Having the Best tokens looking like the Perfect tokens people are gonna get scamed. Change the token. It really hurts to know once they scam you they go boasting around friends and the friends dont care. I really wish PWI would take action on the people who do this and admits it freely. Maybe they won't be laughing out loud then.0
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After reading all of your posts, I see something missing.
Why can't both parties carry blame? Everyone seems to either be saying that its all the scammer's fault or that its all the victim's fault (and yes, they would qualify as a victim).
I'd say that both have erred. Both carry blame. Now, obviously, the scammer has done much more wrong than the victim, since the scammer is the one that performed the act in the first place, so the scammer carries much more blame than the victim. However, while the victim deserves sympathy, the fact remains that if they had taken sufficient steps to prevent being scammed, then it never would have happened. But since it did happen, the victim, by not taking these steps, is (indirectly) encouraging the growth of scamming in Perfect World. This indirect encouragement of scamming is the only reason that the victim would deserve any blame at all.
Obviously the amount of blame due to the victim should vary case by case. As someone mentioned earlier, some people are at a disadvantage either mentally or physically. There may still be steps that these people can take to prevent being scammed, but they would be more difficult and/or time consuming, therefore they do not carry as much (if any) blame because depending on their situation, they really may not have been able to help it.
Finally I'd like to clarify that you should never blame the victim more than the scammer.0 -
I would like to say a few things, so here I go...
1. There is a body governing private sale scams, and it's a division of the FBI.
2. Nobody "deserves" to be scammed. This is a warped idea, further reinforced as such by the "laws" (ToS) of PWE. To say that the one scammed is at fault is like saying someone who is passed counterfeit money is at fault because they didn't test the money to see if it was real.
3. This topic is now closed for flaming.
Closed.0
This discussion has been closed.
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