5aps with SS vs 4aps r9

Um, R9 won't lost:
1. God of Frenzy is the same as SS, just procs more.
2. R9 has +30 attack levels which is ~30% more damage on every single hit, including the ones that proc GoF.
3. R9 has much better base damage and refines better due to being G16.

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

The R9 ring adds 210 weapon damage compare to most end-game ring that gives 100. 110 damage translate to much more after being multiplied by your DEX and mastery. The attack bonus you get from gears such as ring, +XXX physical attack on weapon or on Lionheart necklace all count as weapon damage. Which means that their face value will get multiplied then added to your final base damage. For example, a ring with 100 attack adds more than 100 attack to your final base damage. See here.

So in the end, the extra damage from R9 ring + higher weapon damage from R9 daggers (I'm pretty sure R9 still have higher damage at both +10 even tho they refine less, not sure about +12) + twice the chance for double damage + 30 attack levels makes R9 far better than Nirvana with SS and -0.05.

You focus on damage a little to much. People can still get r9 ring and use nirvana weapons. The problem with GoF is the fact it takes away a lot more survivability. Sac Strike procs a lot less and staying 5.0 means you can spark more along with having more chi regen to time sparks for certain bosses a lot better. You can manage going through a TT with SS but you 99.999% of the time would never catch a sin going through TT with GoF. In the end having both for all game situations is best but very few can afford one highly refined weapon let alone two or three.

In the end it's up to you if you like massive damage vs losing a lot of your BP regen. Sometimes you can't really afford to lose that much HP regen (especially solo'ing).

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

So in the end, the extra damage from R9 ring + higher weapon damage from R9 daggers (I'm pretty sure R9 still have higher damage at both +10 even tho they refine less, not sure about +12) + twice the chance for double damage + 30 attack levels makes R9 far better than Nirvana with SS and -0.05.

Checked out bludds +12 r9's the other day. If I remember correctly they were something like... 1510-1909 exactly b:chuckle
Dark death is 1472-1815 +12 and barrier thorn nirv is 1390-1691.

Bigger difference between 1st and 2nd cast than 2nd cast and r9 not including the ring.
R9 is the clear winner. Extra base damage along with that 30% and god of frenzy. You never have to worry about SS or GOF damaging your hp. They don't proc often enough to out damage bloodpaint. And like okeano said, use a crab meat.

Shouldn't take r9 ring into account anyway as you can use it with nirv daggers. I know a few sins who do.
Personally I'm not sure whether to go r9 ring or sign of frost chaos atm. way better damager from r9 and 5 def lvls which is nice. But frost chaos gives 200mdef and at +10 800pdef. +12 gives 1350 pdef. With a 5 aps sins already insane damage I'm thinking the defence may come in more useful than the extra damage. With all my orns at +10 the extra +10 chaos will take my pdef from about 6k to about 7k and give a useful boost to my pathetic mdef too. How well does 5 defence levels and that extra damage balance up against 1k pdef and a couple hundred mdef?

R9 daggers are definately better anyway. The extra damage, god of frenzy and 30 attack lvls can't be competed with. You can have a recast nirv with SS and -0.5int but the extra base damage and extra 30 attack lvls do more than the 1 attack per second without even taking GOF into account.

I'll be keeping my 1st cast barrier thorn anyways. -0.1 interval and perfectly decent damage is all I need. If I didn't already have them I'd go for r9, but it would be a huge waste of money considering I already have the nirvana +10 2 socketed with garnet gems and everything.
Also sparked damage isn't everything. Your base aps is 4.0 with every piece of interval and 1st cast. With r9 it's 2.86. That's what? 40% more damage at 4 aps than 2.86 aps if you are using the same weapon. So the 30% from r9 makes it a 10% difference. Then you've got the difference in base damage and GOF vs 10% more dmg from your extra attack speed. R9 still probably comes out on top, but not by all that much.

When I pvp I don't spark. It's just stun, auto attack, stun, auto attack, seal immobilise, auto attack etc. Most the damage comes from my base aps auto attacks and I don;t think r9 would help the damage much there.

Still, if you go full r9 you don't have to worry about auto attacks in pvp and can just one shot everyone b:surrender
R9 + 12 sin hit me for 22k with a knife throw the other day lol.

SinfuINature - Harshlands wrote: »

how hard and costly is it to get r9 gear? whats the aps for a r9 sin? is it truly better than 5aps sin? whats the cost difference in the 2... and what gear do you need for the 2 too make it happen?

1) Before you can but any other R9 gear you need the Ring of Trauma which is 3 medals of glory + 32 General summer tokens. To get the R9 Daggers will cost you 5 Medal of glory and 85 General summer tokens.

2) Assuming you mean just r9 daggers the aps is 2.86 unsparked, 4 sparked (without windshield) http://pwcalc.com/cf3c4bfb59a503c3

3) I can't answer that.

4) I can't say much on that either but i can say R9 is considerable more. and the SS -0.05 can be random because you gotta get lucky on the add ons. R9 = 300k rep + 8 Medals of glory and 117 General summer tokens. Giving very generous prices: Medal of glory 10m each, Gen summer tokens 4m each. (On sanc anyway)

5) R9: http://pwcalc.com/cf3c4bfb59a503c3
SS + -0.05 http://pwcalc.com/7a772c15c840a061

@Rice

Powerdash increase of your damage doesn't increase more with added interval than it does with added damage. So you're idea that 5 aps gives more dmg with powerdash than 4 aps even though 4 aps r9 hits ahrder is wrong.

If you have 4 aps +30 atk lvls even with same base dmg and gof on recast nirv with 5 aps it's still 10% more damage per second.
So in 8 seconds you do 10% more damage than with recast nirv.
Each hit has exactly same chance to crit. So doesn't matter whether your doing 40 hits or 32. You have an 80 or so % chance to crit each hit. Which is effectively an 80% chance to do double your damage within those 8 seconds. It's total dps that counts. And dps is better with r9 than recast nirv.

E.G. you do 500000 average dmg in 8 secs with no crits taken into account with recast nirv 5 aps. This means if you switch to r9 even with same base damage (though r9 will always be higher) you do 10% more damage in these 8 seconds. So thats 550000.
Now you use poerdash giving you 80% crit chance. This means you have 80% chance to double your dps over the next 8 seconds. So nirv give 80% chance to do 1mil. R9 give 80% to do 1.1 mil. R9's always going to be higher.

Besides this is entirely hypothetical. The chances of getting gof + int + dmg on nirv daggers = statistical impossibility lol. You'd have to recast so many times you could make an r9 toon for every class in the game before you got those stats.