Radiant Daggers "Furious Dragon" effect proc rate???
Astreon - Sanctuary
Posts: 42 Arc User
Furious Dragon: Has a chance to recover 25% hp and increase evasion and critical rate. Lasts 5 seconds.
What chance? Anyone got a clue/can check the accual %? Kinda important thing considering that one must pay 1.15 BILLION coins for those Radiant Daggers b:surrender:
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30222
What chance? Anyone got a clue/can check the accual %? Kinda important thing considering that one must pay 1.15 BILLION coins for those Radiant Daggers b:surrender:
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/30222
Post edited by Astreon - Sanctuary on
0
Comments
-
Any ideas please?0
-
dont bother. they suck to much to even take into consideration let alone looking up how much it procs. on top of the 1.1bil price tag its pretty much the same as trying to put a value on a pile of dog ****.
but if u REALLY must know, its about a 2% chance.0 -
2.22%
That's roughly once every 11 seconds at 4.0 aps.Some people risk to employ me
Some people live to destroy me
Either way they die0 -
2%? O.o Any source for this please? b:shocked
if it really is 2% then i would heal more just using HP food or equivalent and attacking with rank 9 lol.
I have tested another effect simillar to that: "Blood Defect: has a chance to recover 10% HP". After attacking permasparked for a minute and noting the number of procs I calculated it came out at around 8% rate. Still... the heal was not astonishing. I can't imagine if it were 2.22%. Wth would someone buy it then? b:laugh0 -
If you're going for non-interval daggers, why not get Rank 9? It's about 1/3rd of the price and better.BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761
YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI0 -
TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »If you're going for non-interval daggers, why not get Rank 9? It's about 1/3rd of the price and better.
I am looking for daggers that will improve my sin in terms of soloing bosses, not killing other players (Sanct is PVE server so kinda no point of improving PK since all PK people are prepared for assault with GS, bound eq or SL). What comes here is the fact that when you attack [?] boss, damage is reduced to around 20% original damage (25% original damage is cause of level difference and then around 5% from the physical defense the boss has). That makes R9 less useful because you lose ~80% damage potential and God of Frenzy still takes 5% max hp with 20-25% proc. rate. Basically, the more hp you have, the more dangerous becomes the 5%.
In Radiant daggers, you have a stat that heals 25% of your hp every now and th...e......ee...ee..e.n (2.22%). This makes it possible for you to profit from higher hp, the more you have, the more makes the 25%. Including the attack level and the critrate I calculated the following for fully buffed character and no debuffs on boss:
Average heal per hit (sage BP) by rank 9: 202 HP
Average heal per hit (sage BP) by Radiant Daggers: 395 HP
I used a 13k hp (barb buffed) sin for Radiant Dagger Calculation (sin HP build) and 10k hp (also barb buffed) sin with attack level build (HP from refines) for Rank 9 calculation (reason described above).
The difference (besides the obvious one in red) is Rank 9 BP heal being more "Trustworthy" than the Radiant Furious Dragon 25% HP effect which is quite a gamble.
4 aps sin -> 40 attacks/10 sec. Percentage chance to make:
0 procs: 40.7%
1 proc: 37.0%
2 procs: 16.4%
3 procs: 4.7%
4 procs: 1.0%
.
.
.
= Total chance for ANY proc: 59,3%
59.3% chance to do ANY proc of Furious Dragon within 10 seconds... WTH b:shutup It must be higher... I can't believe Devs from china are that dumb to make us pay over a billion for such ****...0 -
I thought all weapon procs had 15% chance. Except advances procs being more often.0
-
_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »I thought all weapon procs had 15% chance. Except advances procs being more often.
Checked with blood defect proc in Shadow Legend daggers today. Turned out to be something between 5-10% (8% was my calculation from ~250 test hits). IMO they should write the percantage of proc in the item description. Not like we pay for something we don't know about..0 -
Does anyone even really know how pwi's percents work?0
-
Astreon - Sanctuary wrote: »I am looking for daggers that will improve my sin in terms of soloing bosses, not killing other players (Sanct is PVE server so kinda no point of improving PK since all PK people are prepared for assault with GS, bound eq or SL). What comes here is the fact that when you attack [?] boss, damage is reduced to around 20% original damage (25% original damage is cause of level difference and then around 5% from the physical defense the boss has). That makes R9 less useful because you lose ~80% damage potential and God of Frenzy still takes 5% max hp with 20-25% proc. rate. Basically, the more hp you have, the more dangerous becomes the 5%.
In Radiant daggers, you have a stat that heals 25% of your hp every now and th...e......ee...ee..e.n (2.22%). This makes it possible for you to profit from higher hp, the more you have, the more makes the 25%. Including the attack level and the critrate I calculated the following for fully buffed character and no debuffs on boss:
Average heal per hit (sage BP) by rank 9: 202 HP
Average heal per hit (sage BP) by Radiant Daggers: 395 HP
I used a 13k hp (barb buffed) sin for Radiant Dagger Calculation (sin HP build) and 10k hp (also barb buffed) sin with attack level build (HP from refines) for Rank 9 calculation (reason described above).
The difference (besides the obvious one in red) is Rank 9 BP heal being more "Trustworthy" than the Radiant Furious Dragon 25% HP effect which is quite a gamble.
4 aps sin -> 40 attacks/10 sec. Percentage chance to make:
0 procs: 40.7%
1 proc: 37.0%
2 procs: 16.4%
3 procs: 4.7%
4 procs: 1.0%
.
.
.
= Total chance for ANY proc: 59,3%
59.3% chance to do ANY proc of Furious Dragon within 10 seconds... WTH b:shutup It must be higher... I can't believe Devs from china are that dumb to make us pay over a billion for such ****...
How does Rank 9 daggers lose 80% damage potential? It's +30 attack level 4APS against level 150 mobs and GOF zerk crits heal 400-600% per hit if including wolf emblem and the attack level.
Also, you've ignored that the 25% heal from Radiant daggers won't necessarily heal more, because it's not a heal over time. For example, if the 25% procs while you're already at full HP, the amount of HP recovered is still 0. That's the same reason why clerics will use Ironheart over stream and wellspring surge etc.
On top of that, G16 refines for way more than G13.BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761
YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI0 -
Random data that I can't verify says that:
Sacrifical assault = 20%
God of frenzy = 40-50%
Shatter = 5%
Random stuff = 5% (?)
It was my understanding that most random debuffs had a 1/20 chance of occuring, ie, 5%. @ 4aps, you'd expect it to take around 5 seconds to see a proc, which, coincidentally, lasts for 5 seconds. Theoretically you'd see this proc 2 or 3 times per triple spark. I can see a problem with these daggers though; first of all, how much does crit & evasion increase? Second of all, will it, as I suspect, overwrite any pre-existing evasion or crit buffs you have? Thirdly, while the 25% hp recovery thing sounds great too, we musn't forget base damage for these daggers is much lower; even if you survive better, yur damage is gonna be lower than 5aps sins or 4aps sins with sac assault, and it'll definitely suck compared to rank 9.
If these daggers cost about 1/3 of their current price, maybeeee it'd be worth getting them... or maybe if the evasion buff was like, 100%, and the crit, say, 40% increase. Then that'd be a massive damage & durability increase. Need more info before I can say for sure, but I can't see it being worth it to get these daggers.
Azzazin[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Setting of the twilight moon; a late evening rendezvous from atop the
city's lonely heights. With the dawn the city below springs into bustling
activity, and I don my morning apparel. From on high, I watch the world.0 -
_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Does anyone even really know how pwi's percents work?
Yes. Paint a bunch of numbers on a wall. Throw a dart at the wall. Which ever number you hit is what you get. If you hit the floor, ceiling, another wall, your chair, cat, mom, yourself, computer, window, or anything else, it counts as "0". Put all of those other items between your dart and wall.
There you go.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
/facepalm
these idiots using ****ty math in a game like this.
get nirvy daggs and i PROMISE you that at 5APS the nirvy daggs will keep u healed AND do more DPS then those ****ty radiant daggers. you honestly have to be a fool to even consider getting them.0 -
_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »Does anyone even really know how pwi's percents work?
Depends what %... the principles of defense, attack, damage reduction, attack/def level etc. are well known for many people since there are many calculators that do exact calculations for your build like pwcalc.ru, survivability calculator by Asterelle etc.
The accual proc % of the weapons is imo still unknown and bases on peoples test, tries, beliefs or whatever you can call them. Still, we should have a possibility to check the percantage... The difference between 2% and 10% is HUGE for aps classes and it makes you decide whether u really want the weapon or not... A big fail from PW side for not including this in the item description.Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »Yes. Paint a bunch of numbers on a wall. Throw a dart at the wall. Which ever number you hit is what you get. If you hit the floor, ceiling, another wall, your chair, cat, mom, yourself, computer, window, or anything else, it counts as "0". Put all of those other items between your dart and wall.
There you go.
haha, I lol'd at that xD.
Anwering Azzazin tho... Bro.. Damage is not the most important thing on bosses... What would a high damage bring you if you can be 1-2 shot to death by a boss? Its survivability that counts most while soloing. And you can't deny it...0 -
TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »How does Rank 9 daggers lose 80% damage potential? It's +30 attack level 4APS against level 150 mobs and GOF zerk crits heal 400-600% per hit if including wolf emblem and the attack level.
Also, you've ignored that the 25% heal from Radiant daggers won't necessarily heal more, because it's not a heal over time. For example, if the 25% procs while you're already at full HP, the amount of HP recovered is still 0. That's the same reason why clerics will use Ironheart over stream and wellspring surge etc.
On top of that, G16 refines for way more than G13.
Refine = increase in damage... which is reduced by 80% by [?] bosses which interest me the most. Thats why the damage from EVERY dagger in game and therefore the effect of BP is incredibly reduced. Furthermore, for the BP to heal back the 5% gof on a 10k hp sin (=500 hp), you would need to deal 25.000 damage (demon BP) or 16.666 damage (sage BP) to make it zero. Now to make it clear:
+12 R9 dag, 2 drakeflames: demon spark damage = 22484-26634, mean: 24559
mean damage on boss: 24559 * 1.6 (60 att. which is jones bless + daggers) * 0.2 (level difference damage penalty + phys.def. influence on lvl 150 boss) * 2 (GoF effect) = ~15718
15718 < 25000 = not enough to heal back the effect = GoF slowly kills you...
And then, the more HP you have (over the assumed 10k) the more you need to deal to get back the 5% lost. And that's with R9 maxed as much as possible and R9+R8 ring...
For Radiant Daggers this is a bit more complicated, but there you get a profit from having more HP, not additional HP loss. The problem with this heal being not a heal over time is interesting but answer the question... What for would you need a heal if you have full HP? The effect may be lost with it in some cases, but most of the time it will proc when you have 50% or less HP (that's what usually happens by a sin after 1 hit from a strong boss, and it's then folllowed by high aps+BP stream that heal you before its next hit).
Correct me if I'm wrong...0 -
Astreon, please refrain from double-posting.
Also, referring to your thought that the actual percentage should be listed instead of just "a chance", maybe you should post that idea in the Suggestion Box.
Thanks!b:thanks0 -
Astreon - Sanctuary wrote: »+12 R9 dag, 2 drakeflames: demon spark damage = 22484-26634, mean: 24559
mean damage on boss: 24559 * 1.6 (60 att. which is jones bless + daggers) * 0.2 (level difference damage penalty + phys.def. influence on lvl 150 boss) * 2 (GoF effect) = ~15718
15718 < 25000 = not enough to heal back the effect = GoF slowly kills you...
You forgot the effects of crit and wolf emblem. Assuming 40% crit and demon wolf emblem
24559 * 1.6 * .2 * 2 * (0.6 + 0.4 * 2.4) = 24519 ~ 490 HP gained back
That is almost enough to get back the lost hp from GoF. Of course not every hit procs so you will still be gaining alot of HP on those strikes.
This is of course assuming the boss has no debuffs on it at all, and that the sin has no DoT sharding. If the boss has HF, subsea strike, amp, or some pdef debuff on it I don't see the HP actually decreasing during a GoF proc. If the sin knows how to do the glitch exploit on canceling powerdash they will be gaining even more HP.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »You forgot the effects of crit and wolf emblem. Assuming 40% crit and demon wolf emblem
24559 * 1.6 * .2 * 2 * (0.6 + 0.4 * 2.4) = 24519 ~ 490 HP gained back
That is almost enough to get back the lost hp from GoF. Of course not every hit procs so you will still be gaining alot of HP on those strikes.
This is of course assuming the boss has no debuffs on it at all, and that the sin has no DoT sharding. If the boss has HF, subsea strike, amp, or some pdef debuff on it I don't see the HP actually decreasing during a GoF proc. If the sin knows how to do the glitch exploit on canceling powerdash they will be gaining even more HP.
Depends on the sins HP and APS. If you have 15k HP buffed the hit needs to be 2.5x that (37.5k) with demon BP (2% heal from damage x 2.5 = 5% max hp loss), and 1.67x that (25k) for sage BP users. For short busts I see numbers in the 50ks for nirvana when HF, subsea, etc is on, but off that HF time I never come close to that type of damage needed to negate a GoF hit. I would only negate that effect on HF, so if bosses die in that relative time then GoF does no harm, otherwise it wouldn't be very effective especially for a 4.0.
Obviously the best set up for a GoF user is primarily 10k HP and mainly sharded with DoT. Less max HP means you don't have to hit nearly as high to recover the 5% loss from the double damage hit. DoT also increase that damage making it even easier to make up for that loss.Currently: pwcalc.com/b4c92dacf1da8c210 -
You still don't need to fully negate a GoF proc to be getting heals on average.
If you are losing 10 HP on a GoF proc and making 250 HP when GoF doesn't proc, you are still gaining HP as long as the GoF proc rate is less than 95%. If you factor in the heals from demon spark the GoF proc rate could even be 100%.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »You still don't need to fully negate a GoF proc to be getting heals on average.
If you are losing 10 HP on a GoF proc and making 250 HP when GoF doesn't proc, you are still gaining HP as long as the GoF proc rate is less than 95%. If you factor in the heals from demon spark the GoF proc rate could even be 100%.
Again depends on the set up of the sin and the boss you are doing. Some bosses you can't afford to lose ANY regen on, other hit you for 100 and you rofl at them. b:laughCurrently: pwcalc.com/b4c92dacf1da8c210 -
Astreon, please refrain from double-posting.
Also, referring to your thought that the actual percentage should be listed instead of just "a chance", maybe you should post that idea in the Suggestion Box.
Thanks!b:thanks
Understood. I have posted the idea in the Suggestion Box. But please tell me, since when do Devs check the Suggestion Box? b:chuckle Sadly, I have never seen any idea posted there being implemented in PWI b:sad Instead, we got 2 new expansions with 4 new character classes, and a bunch of bugs, some of which have not been fixed since the first expansion b:surrender
Guys, your ideas are ok. I would like you to see tho, that BP heal combined with GoF gets weaker and boss's damage doesn't... So your soloing capability goes down around by the percantage of GoF proc (20%?). This can prevent an assassin from soloing harder bosses like TT3-2, 3-3 squad mode or equivalent [?] bosses.
Still looking for the proc rate of Radiant Daggers b:surrender0 -
Bump for my friend.0
-
Eh I bore myself and bumps annoy me.0
-
Really nobody knows? b:sad please at least visit this thread: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1037381 and vote for "yes" if you don't know b:surrender0
-
Bring up my post.0
-
I thought u got told to restrain yourself from dbl posting.......
and also was that u bumping ur own thread? pfffft0 -
Zenorx - Harshlands wrote: »I thought u got told to restrain yourself from dbl posting.......
and also was that u bumping ur own thread? pfffft
LoL? are you limited or something? Try to notice i bump/double post it in 12h or higher intervals which is completely legal on all forums. Furthermore who should bump it if not the guy who needs the question answered (me)? pfft... b:shutupb:bye0 -
Uve bumped it enough times.................
Im pretty sure if someone actually knows the answer they would have said by now.
Stop bumping a thread that noone knows the answer too!0
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 699 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61.1K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk