Is the freeze>run into mob tactic a bannable offense?
DarkBlueEvil - Raging Tide
Posts: 8 Arc User
A lot of posts in the assassin sub-forums speak of a useful tactic that involves using tackling slash to freeze the mob and then running or teleporting into it. Well, this reminds me of the veno glitch except the fact that it doesn't work all the time and definitely not on all kinds of mobs. Soo, before I start using it I'd like to ask if its legal to do so or can this get you banned? b:shocked
Post edited by DarkBlueEvil - Raging Tide on
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Lol just do it, i seriously doubt that anyone will report you for taking a very small advantage of a mob fault that the devs dont seem to know how to fix, besides when the para comes off they attack you again anyway when they move back a bit, I used it on my sin around the 4x levels and such since there still squishy as hell, even if it is bannable, the chances of being reported with full proof you were exploiting is just slim, plus, theres the chance that you can accidently do it, thats how i found it out anyway, by accident.0
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Erm Tackling slash always works for me..... but why the hell would we get banned for using skills the class comes with? And btw your post makes no sense now that i think about it. If you get in close to tackling slash say a ranged mob (then beat em down b4 freeze wears off, or close to it), why the hell would you need to run or telport to the mob? you're ALREADY like a foot away... lol0
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If people talk about it on the forums and it hasn't been edited out by a mod/GM then chances are it's not bannable.You have three chances to guess the reason for the post above.0
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Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »Erm Tackling slash always works for me..... but why the hell would we get banned for using skills the class comes with? And btw your post makes no sense now that i think about it. If you get in close to tackling slash say a ranged mob (then beat em down b4 freeze wears off, or close to it), why the hell would you need to run or telport to the mob? you're ALREADY like a foot away... lol
I said it doesn't work on all kinds of mobs. It completely saves you from damage from purely physical mobs and cuts down the damage archer mobs do to half!
By the way, your post seems like you don't know how that little trick works lol. Try running into the mob after you freeze him. He won't hit you because he'll be busy trying to reposition himself. b:laugh
Also, thanks for the quick replies everyone o.o I think I'll go ahead and do it anyway. It should cut down my HP pot bill b:thanks0 -
DarkBlueEvil - Raging Tide wrote: »I said it doesn't work on all kinds of mobs. It completely saves you from damage from purely physical mobs and cuts down the damage archer mobs do to half!
By the way, your post seems like you don't know how that little trick works lol. Try running into the mob after you freeze him. He won't hit you because he'll be busy trying to reposition himself. b:laugh
i've never used this trick myself (i've got very much to learn on my 'sin yet, it seems), so let's see if i've understood it right...
the only reason the mob can't attack back is that it's trying to do something else (move) which it can't because one of your skills has prevented it from doing that (stun/freeze), and as soon as your skill wears off, then the mob proceeds to move and begin hitting back? except that, the only reason it never does hit back is you kill it before the stun/freeze can wear off?
if that's so, then it seems like a perfectly legal use of ordinary skills to me. if i had to let every purely melee mob live long enough to actually reach me (or my pet), gaming would be painfully slow. heck, archers would never get anything done!
the veno glitch is bannable because the target mob there is unable to fight back at all, ever, and you've not used any skill to cause that. it's a glitch because the mob really should be resetting, but for some reason doesn't. your technique doesn't sound anything like that.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.0 -
It works great for a higher level assassin that can kill monsters fast, but positioning yourself "into" the mob, so to speak, can get tedious and annoying really fast. I used this trick in the 50-60 level range on extreme grinding sessions and I know it gets on your nerves right away.0
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Lol is this thread serious?0
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DarkBlueEvil - Raging Tide wrote: »I said it doesn't work on all kinds of mobs. It completely saves you from damage from purely physical mobs and cuts down the damage archer mobs do to half!
By the way, your post seems like you don't know how that little trick works lol. Try running into the mob after you freeze him. He won't hit you because he'll be busy trying to reposition himself. b:laugh
Also, thanks for the quick replies everyone o.o I think I'll go ahead and do it anyway. It should cut down my HP pot bill b:thanks
Um ok well this is how i grind mobs..... Throwing knife (doesnt' matter what i'm hitting) to lure em closer WHILE i'm heading toward em, then ... the bleed move, then.... Rib Strike, then i wack away the last bit of HP just reg melee. That's one combo actually.
If it's a ranged mob, i have a diff combo that's Knife throw, Tackling slash (if you make it a point to knife throw at max range almost, the mob won't get off it's shot and try to run b4 u get close enough to hit it with Tackle Slash), then just rib strike and finish off the rest regular melee. (If it's a poison casting mob like a plant, i do about the same thing, cept throw in Deep Sting BEFORE tackle [Tackle's jsut there in THAT combo to get the 50 chi back, and i usually get teh mob slept b4 it gets off poison], and after that the mob's almost dead so no rib strike, just the bleed move and finish the mob off)
I have NEVER seen a mob get "stuck" after tackle slash. Ya it' still turned for like a split sec from "trying" to run... but then they turn and hit me from where they're frozen in place while i finish them off. So ya I have no damn clue what you're talking about rofl.0 -
OP: i can't imagine why it would be bannable, especially since Shadow Teleport does exactly that: stuns the mob and puts us....right inside them! XD when several of our skills place us in that situation automatically, they can't ban you for it b:surrender
Why are you still using puncture at your level? IMO, not worth the time it takes to cast b:surrender i can do more damage in that time with normal attacks.Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »Um ok well this is how i grind mobs..... Throwing knife (doesnt' matter what i'm hitting) to lure em closer WHILE i'm heading toward em, then ... the bleed move, then.... Rib Strike, then i wack away the last bit of HP just reg melee. That's one combo actually.Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have NEVER seen a mob get "stuck" after tackle slash. Ya it' still turned for like a split sec from "trying" to run... but then they turn and hit me from where they're frozen in place while i finish them off. So ya I have no damn clue what you're talking about rofl.
XD that's because you are missing a step. If you just [tackling slash]>attack, the mob is still in normal melee range to you, and will hit you as normal.
HOWEVER, if you pay attention the next time you teleport to a mob (which puts you inside the mob, at the exact same location), melee attacking mobs will move to get you out of them before they attack, because the game code requires them to be in "melee range" to hit you....and 0 distance isn't considered melee range.
THEREFORE, if you tackling slash and then run inside the mob or tele into it, it can not hit you until the immobilize effect wears off and allows it to move to melee range! aka: if you can kill it in that time, you don't get hit.
this doesn't work at all on mage mobs, and only minimally on archer mobs, since both can hit you without being melee range, and the setup time makes it impractical after you can shard enough HP to take the hits well, but its great for mid levels when you are squishy still.Things said during a Twizted faction PK session:
Slayer_of_Souls: you guys are such suck ups. none of you have attacked twid.
Twiddzly(fac leader): no, sere killed me already.
Slayer_of_Souls: he's out there waiting for us, isn't he. i'm gonna die.
Sereneai: b:sin why don't you come find out.
Kinglkaruga: you go first dule.0 -
I still use puncture cause idk.. i never took it outta my combos? I dont' use combos in a Dungeon mind you, but mindless grinding where the onyl thing that can change from one second to another is you link a second mob.... It doesnt' HURT using it, DoT.... my atacks plus the dmg from that is jsut more dmg... especially if i happen to hit a increased life or defense mob. Blah idk.....
Anyway...... Ya I see what the OP is saying now, thanks for the clarification. now that i see what he means..... i dont' even recall if mobs have ever tried to hit me if i was "inside the 0 barrier" and froze them in place.
And now that i thnk about it...... ya this SHOULD be bannable. It is pretty much the same as throwing a veno pet at a mob from RIGHT over their head so they dont' hit your pet but still dont' reset. you're exploiting a game mechanic that until sins came out was prolly never even realized to exsist. Till now (correct me if i'm wrong), only a archer could freeze a mob in place (btw the descripton on that skill says stun [or it did]. That's wrong, it's not a STUN, it's a bind move). But an archer would have no reason to get in the "0 barrier" (lol i'm liking that phrase). So of course no one found this till now. But ya you're exploiting a game mechanic to keep a mob from doing any damage to you at all when it should be able to, same as the veno thing. but honestly.... I could care less. And I use apoth meds in long grinding sessions so i dont' even care if i get hit or how much MP i spam on skills, it's a non-issue.0 -
I dont think you can considered this a glitch or a trick lol. Some mobs are badly programed, and if they get paralyzed they wont attack back since they need a certain amount of space, or position from the player to work properly.
As a sin you kinda have to paralyze kiting mobs, its not like you have a choice at lower levels. Tackling Slash is there to be used (like any skill with a freezing effect), no ones gonna stop using it because PWI-mobs are fail.
It doesn't even matter at 100+ since assassin kills mobs in like 2-5 sec if they have decent aps. I dont even notice/care if i get hit by mobs on my assassin in pve. Blood paint heals for thousands every second.0 -
Except tacklign doesnt' paralyze, it BINDS. Binding a mob doesnt' keep them from hitting you, unless it's just a melee mob. But doing this can keep almost all mobs from doing dmg when they should be able to.0
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Is using tackling slash, followed by puncture wound a bannable offense??? It allows the mob to take a lot of damage over time while you run from it plus it cannot move b:shocked, which is technically OP. Can some tell me please b:surrender.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I know what your thinking.0
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That was a joke right? lol0
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Paralyze and Bind are pretty much the same thing. Paralyze is just a general term for it.
It's not really much of an exploit. The veno glitch prevents the auto-recovery code from working properly. That's why it's bannable. This just prevents a monster from running. The AI is still working properly. Doesn't matter that the AI isn't smart enough to pay attention to what's going on.0 -
actualy paralyze and bind are two completey different things. Paralyze completely freezes you, not only in place but from doing anything (you can't attack, heal yourself, use pots, anything) , bind (or freeze as in Tackling slash) only binds you in place. you can still attack, if you're in range.
Ya and when a veno does their thing it doesnt' matter that the AI isnt' smart enough to make the mob punch straight up huh? This IS the same thing.... you're getting yourself (or as a veno your pet) in such a position that the mob SHOULD be able to attack, but can't (cause the AI sucks).0 -
Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ya and when a veno does their thing it doesnt' matter that the AI isnt' smart enough to make the mob punch straight up huh? This IS the same thing.... you're getting yourself (or as a veno your pet) in such a position that the mob SHOULD be able to attack, but can't (cause the AI sucks).
No.
The glitch is that the boss should go into recovery, but does not. The glitch is the boss is put into a position where it can't attack at all. The correct AI response was that it would go into recovery. The veno glitch prevents this.
A big part of why the veno glitch was deemed bannable was that people were using it on Gouf. They soloed the boss while the boss was unable to fight back at all. That's why people started getting banned for it. I doubt they ever really cared about simple ground monsters.0 -
ya, and instead of the mob punching up like a goood AI would do the mob resets (or should've but doesn't, hence glitch). I know damn well what the veno glitch is i have a veno, hell who doesn't. not sayign i DO that... or even neeed to do that lmao Hell a Veno can freakign solo Gouf with a REGULAR walker when they get him, so prolyl with a golem too...... idk why venos were using this on HIM.
And here the glitch is the mob should be able to hit you, yet as a sin you can do this (that NO one else can do, at least fast enough) and the mob can't touch you (most of them anyway as pointed out before). That doesn't sound wrong to you? Like I said before i could care less whther they start banning for it or not, i dont' even do this (or need to). But you cant' honestly sit here and tell me this was intended gameplay to hide inside a mob's "0 barrier" while it's bound and not get hit while you kill it.0 -
Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »actualy paralyze and bind are two completey different things. Paralyze completely freezes you, not only in place but from doing anything (you can't attack, heal yourself, use pots, anything) , bind (or freeze as in Tackling slash) only binds you in place. you can still attack, if you're in range.
That's called "stun"
Stun = unable to move/attack
Seal = Unable to attack. Can move.
Freeze/Paralyze/Bind = Unable to move. Can attack.
Sleep = unable to move/attack until hit.0 -
Actually i was going by FFXI since i've never even seen a skill in this game that actually says paralyze on it. Ya you're right though, the way i described it.... that was stun, not paralyze. Oops rofl... Paralyze you can still move and do w/e, but half the time your skills dont' work cause you're para'ed. BUT.... that's paralyze in FFXI.... like i said i've yet to see something on here say Para. Bind and freeze (as in freeze in place, also the definition of bind.. lol), exact same thing..
--->2 minutes later...... ok I just looked at cleric skills on ecatomb. Silent Seal paralyzes, but in this game what does that do exactly?0 -
Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »And here the glitch is the mob should be able to hit you
sez who?
mobs, for whatever stupid reason, do not consider "zero distance" to be "melee range". they never have. so if you get to that distance from them, they try to move to some other distance before they melee attack you. if they can't move, they don't attack. if they find it impossible to move --- for reasons other than skill effects holding them down --- then they (should) reset.
now put a one in front of that zero. ten "meters" isn't melee range either, and if you're at that distance from a pure-melee mob when you have its aggro --- it'll try to move before attacking. same thing. if the mob then finds it impossible to close those ten meters, for reasons not related to skills you've thrown at it, it should reset. same thing.
in either case, if it can't move due to being frozen or stunned, you have a free shot. this is part of what freeze/stun skills are FOR. you prevent them from moving, get out of their range, and whale away at them. auto-attacks at zero meters isn't conceptually any different from knife throws at ten meters when the mob's frozen either way. why SHOULD the mob be able to hit you when you've deliberately nailed its feet to the ground then deliberately moved out of its melee range?
it'd only be a glitch if there's some good argument that the mob ought to be resetting, but doesn't. that argument is what makes the veno glitch a glitch; otherwise, it too would be a valid tactic.yet as a sin you can do this (that NO one else can do, at least fast enough)
what, get inside a frozen mob then kill it before it unfreezes? yeah, that one trick might be 'sin-specific. but more generally, kill a mob before it has time to get (back) into range to attack you back? every class can do that, to at least some mobs, somehow. archers do it seemingly every other mob they attack, they'd never get any gaming done if they couldn't kill that way.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.0 -
Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »Actually i was going by FFXI since i've never even seen a skill in this game that actually says paralyze on it. Ya you're right though, the way i described it.... that was stun, not paralyze. Oops rofl... Paralyze you can still move and do w/e, but half the time your skills dont' work cause you're para'ed. BUT.... that's paralyze in FFXI.... like i said i've yet to see something on here say Para. Bind and freeze (as in freeze in place, also the definition of bind.. lol), exact same thing..
--->2 minutes later...... ok I just looked at cleric skills on ecatomb. Silent Seal paralyzes, but in this game what does that do exactly?
The paralyze here is the same as freeze and bind. It's the one that keeps you in place but you can still use skills and attacks on anything in range.0 -
LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »"says stuff that made sense but has no point to the OP's question..
it'd only be a glitch if there's some good argument that the mob ought to be resetting, but doesn't. that argument is what makes the veno glitch a glitch; otherwise, it too would be a valid tactic.
Unless you're tryign to kill all mobs with a bow, u have ONE HIT with knife throw then u have to get in MELEE range. Whether the AI's stupid or not.... you get in THAT close the mob SHOULD be able to hit you. That's the point here... ugh nvm....The paralyze here is the same as freeze and bind. It's the one that keeps you in place but you can still use skills and attacks on anything in range.
>.< Why do they call the same move 3 different things.......0 -
When it does work long enough, it freezes the mob o.o with white circles around its feet and everything.Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »--->2 minutes later...... ok I just looked at cleric skills on ecatomb. Silent Seal paralyzes, but in this game what does that do exactly?
Good point! So this 0-barrier (Yeah, this term does sound cool!) works just like outranging the mob... I guess its not that much of a glitch after all!LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »
now put a one in front of that zero. ten "meters" isn't melee range either, and if you're at that distance from a pure-melee mob when you have its aggro --- it'll try to move before attacking. same thing. if the mob then finds it impossible to close those ten meters, for reasons not related to skills you've thrown at it, it should reset. same thing.
in either case, if it can't move due to being frozen or stunned, you have a free shot. this is part of what freeze/stun skills are FOR. you prevent them from moving, get out of their range, and whale away at them. auto-attacks at zero meters isn't conceptually any different from knife throws at ten meters when the mob's frozen either way. why SHOULD the mob be able to hit you when you've deliberately nailed its feet to the ground then deliberately moved out of its melee range?
it'd only be a glitch if there's some good argument that the mob ought to be resetting, but doesn't. that argument is what makes the veno glitch a glitch; otherwise, it too would be a valid tactic.0 -
Chadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »Whether the AI's stupid or not.... you get in THAT close the mob SHOULD be able to hit you. That's the point here... ugh nvm....
Look, it boils down to this: Monsters deliberately have a minimum range on their attacks and an AI response for that. The devs also intentionally added a method by which to prevent a monster from moving. It's not a bug or a glitch for those 2 things to interact with each other.0 -
Who knows? Most skills will specifically say it freezes the target in place, but there are a few that will say paralyze. I blame the translation team. b:chuckleChadric - Heavens Tear wrote: »>.< Why do they call the same move 3 different things.......0 -
If this technique actually works then yes, it's the same exploit and bannable.
Edit: That is, if it causes the same "Does not attack you, nor move to attack you" problem.
If they just stay stuck until the freeze wears off, ten this seems fine.0 -
Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »If this technique actually works then yes, it's the same exploit and bannable.
Edit: That is, if it causes the same "Does not attack you, nor move to attack you" problem.
If they just stay stuck until the freeze wears off, ten this seems fine.
to clarify, everything i said in this thread assumed that the mob would start moving and attacking as normal once the freeze wore off, provided only the mob actually lived that long. if this assumption was wrong, then so was pretty much all my speculating.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.0 -
Sereneai - Dreamweaver wrote: »OP: i can't imagine why it would be bannable, especially since Shadow Teleport does exactly that: stuns the mob and puts us....right inside them! XD when several of our skills place us in that situation automatically, they can't ban you for it b:surrender
/thread0
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