Gaurnob and Barb Tank

LeLelle - Sanctuary
LeLelle - Sanctuary Posts: 189 Arc User
edited March 2011 in Barbarian
The team is standing close to the lake shore getting ready for Gaurnob.

The veno sends pet off to pull Gaurnob while the barb waits to catch. The barb is standing out a ways from the team, maybe halfway to the tunnel entrance. When he does catch, the boss runs past and turns around putting the barb on the far side of Gaurnob.

Researching this boss, I see he has a physical aoe, a magical aoe, and a debuff. My IH has a range of 26.5 meters. I cannot find range information on any of boss' aoes.

Obviously, I am trying to figure out a way to heal the barb and stand out of the aoe range. I got two-shotted by this boss where I did not know it could happen.

For my main question I am wondering if it is possible for the barb to catch Garnob in a way that would keep him from running past, putting the barb on the far side of the boss? Would it be better if the team stood close to the door instead of the lake anticipating that Garnob will run past the waiting barb. The veno would still have to stand at the lake acting as bait.

Also I am wanting to know if I was to learn the names of the aoe attacks, could I look up the range on pwdatabase? The only range listed for the boss is his argo range.

Thanks
Post edited by LeLelle - Sanctuary on

Comments

  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Um, once he has aggro he should run through the boss effectively putting himself between the cleric and the boss.


    He either was new at FB69, or was just trolling.
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  • Dagnatic - Sanctuary
    Dagnatic - Sanctuary Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    From 85+ 9 times out of 10 the barb should, and i use the word should for a reason, be able to cancel Both pole and nobs AoE when tanking 69 provided there is no changes of agro a barb should be able to keep on top of the AoE and make sure it doesnt get to the squad, I personally, like to have 2 barbs (when possible) in 69 so that way if one miss times his cancel the other will be able to cancel it, and as a backup if you by any chance decide to heal any one other than the main tank.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Stand in the bosses running path, ream as he runs by, use w,a,s,z keys to walk back through him and ream again to start auto attack process and start working on timing. It helps if the veno runs in a way to directly place the boss running through the barb, because then the barb's ream might channel and attack early enough that he's still between the boss and the cleric.

    Another option is to catch with Beastial Onslaught (a ranged skill) and then hop to tiger form. If the barbs stacked with IH they'll heal to full hp almost immediately. Only problem is using a ranged skill might trigger a ranged aoe which is what we're trying to avoid.

    In the old days there were rumors that if you stood between the boss and the cleric you'd block the aoe spread from hitting the cleric. It wasn't true but alot of barbs tried it and made it a habit because it let the cleric stand as far away as possible so people were thinking the aoe was being blocked.

    Anyway, clerics should just remind their barbs to stand between them and the boss. What barb would reject this idea?


    Edit: As a barb, I can always cancel either pole or nob. Their timing is different and I either get one right or the other, lol. As a sin I like to interupt the boss aoe as something to do instead of over aggro.
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  • DeadRaven - Sanctuary
    DeadRaven - Sanctuary Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    <----talking here with my cleric hat on.

    Your set up was good - everyone waiting at the waters edge with the barb ahead near the tunnel entrance to catch. It sounds like the barb was just a little slow or unlucky with catching Nob on the wrong side. When that happens, the barb should come around to be on your side so that the cleric can back up....ESPECIALLY when the boss has an aoe. Unfortunately, very few barbs are that considerate.

    The damage out-put of the aoe from Nob and Pole is relative to your distance to them, however, if you manage to back-up as much as possible while still remaining within IH range from the barb, you should be able to survive the aoe even with the boss between you two. Just be sure to cast group heal after every aoe, and you and your squad will be fine.

    A cleric's job at Nob and Pole is to: 1) spam IH on the tank 2) purify the tank after the debuff - FAST!! 3) group heal after every aoe to keep yourself alive as well as all the other melee/squad members standing in range of the aoe. As long as you are far enough away from the boss to survive at least 1 hit from the aoe, you got nothing to worry about if you stick to this role b:victory
  • Jenovadeath - Lost City
    Jenovadeath - Lost City Posts: 217 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    make sure the barb has alllacrity of the beast it cancels the aoes and they begin using it about every 8-10 seconds on either particular rotation the cooldown at around lvl 7-8 allacrity is perfect tell him to watch the bosses feet the get a little glowing circle around it when they're channeling for the Aoes
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    The physical AOE is shorter range than the magical one. The physical one looks like a silver arrowhead (like Farren's), if it's hitting an arcane, they're standing too close. The magical one (the water ball one, like Suzerix or Nightspike Bloodguard uses) is impossible to out-range (unless, perhaps, you're an archer), but in no wise should two-shot an arcane caught in it.

    Stand at the max range for your IH or purify (whichever is shorter range), all ranged DDs by you (in range of chromatic healing beam.) IH the barb/tank, purify as soon as possible after the debuff hits (especially on Polearm, his armor break is a killer), and chromatic heal when the mag AOE hits.

    Note: BB is ineffective on these two bosses, as the mag AOE cancels it.
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  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I used to hit the boss with TM before it got to me, forcing it to stop in place (Depending on the pull method that is, this works with a veno pull) and start channeling at me. that provided me the ability to run up and alacrity cancel, and im still in between boss and cleric, thus clerics (smart ones) are still at max range.
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  • fuzzywuzz
    fuzzywuzz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Upon reading the OP, Fuzzy agrees with pretty much this ...
    9 times out of 10 the barb should, and i use the word should for a reason, be able to cancel Both pole and nobs AoE when tanking 69
    once he has aggro he should run through the boss effectively putting himself between the cleric and the boss.
    .

    There are times when it helps for the barb to turn the boss away from the party (Fuzzy thinks of Cenminator) but realistically, in 69, the barb should be able to cancel. If it makes it easier for you to heal with him closer, just ask. Most barbs should be accommodating.

    Just make sure your barb can indeed cancel.

    Sadly, many barbs you might find doing a bh69 have the inability to do so effectively. Fuzzy observes it is a negative side effect of the ease with which a barb can level these days. That however, is a while different issue.
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  • SeaCrit_Sin - Harshlands
    SeaCrit_Sin - Harshlands Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2011

    For my main question I am wondering if it is possible for the barb to catch Garnob in a way that would keep him from running past, putting the barb on the far side of the boss?

    Thanks


    It is possible, and the best method has not been mentioned as of yet.

    Have the Barbarian pull the boss with a Zeal Genie. Then have him run his furry butt back to the rest of the squad, who should all be hanging out in front of the "hut tub". There should be a decent gap between the Barb and the boss. About the time the boss reaches the end of the "tunnel" and is approaching the room everyone is in, the Barb should stop running from the boss and charge it. Rather than use the WASD controls to manually run towards the boss, I suggest the Barb click upon their Alacrity of the Beast skill. This will effectively move the Barb into perfect position, as well as initiate an attack that will cancel the boss' channeling (the boss will begin channeling as soon as the Barb is in AoE range - this should nullify that channeling if timed correctly). The Barb should then, of course, immediately Flesh Ream. As long as everyone else in the party keeps their distance, and resists the urge to attack or heal until that first Flesh Ream hits, there should be no issues with the squad surviving.



    In fact, it will likely be more difficult convincing the Veno to let the Barb pull the boss than it will be staying alive. For this dilemma, simply inform the Veno that the game has changed, their class is no longer req'd for pulling, and there is a greater chance of a fox dying on this pull than a tiger. It's true, I've seen many a Veno die trying to make this pull (they always blame "lag" but Barbs know the truth).



    b:mischievous
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited March 2011

    It is possible, and the best method has not been mentioned as of yet.

    Have the Barbarian pull the boss with a Zeal Genie. Then have him run his furry butt back to the rest of the squad, who should all be hanging out in front of the "hut tub". There should be a decent gap between the Barb and the boss. About the time the boss reaches the end of the "tunnel" and is approaching the room everyone is in, the Barb should stop running from the boss and charge it. Rather than use the WASD controls to manually run towards the boss, I suggest the Barb click upon their Alacrity of the Beast skill. This will effectively move the Barb into perfect position, as well as initiate an attack that will cancel the boss' channeling (the boss will begin channeling as soon as the Barb is in AoE range - this should nullify that channeling if timed correctly). The Barb should then, of course, immediately Flesh Ream. As long as everyone else in the party keeps their distance, and resists the urge to attack or heal until that first Flesh Ream hits, there should be no issues with the squad surviving.



    In fact, it will likely be more difficult convincing the Veno to let the Barb pull the boss than it will be staying alive. For this dilemma, simply inform the Veno that the game has changed, their class is no longer req'd for pulling, and there is a greater chance of a fox dying on this pull than a tiger. It's true, I've seen many a Veno die trying to make this pull (they always blame "lag" but Barbs know the truth).



    b:mischievous

    I used to do this but one of the benefits of having the veno pull (and a decent veno should be in no danger while pulling) is that while the barb waits to catch he can get stacked with IH. You often will get debuffed while pulling, be unstacked, and have no energy left on genie from doing the earthflame pull to use something like Tree of Protection. As it is I prefer to save my genie chi for cloud eruption (chi skill) in case I really have to spam Ream or for Alpha Male in case aggro is lost to a HF/amp/triple spark combo and I don't feel the DDer has the 3 seconds to channel roar, which often feels like 5-10 seconds and can be if I'm in the middle of a skill when I hit it and the boss wants one more hit after roar has landed.
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  • ItsAWolf - Archosaur
    ItsAWolf - Archosaur Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I used to do this but one of the benefits of having the veno pull (and a decent veno should be in no danger while pulling) is that while the barb waits to catch he can get stacked with IH. You often will get debuffed while pulling, be unstacked, and have no energy left on genie from doing the earthflame pull to use something like Tree of Protection. As it is I prefer to save my genie chi for cloud eruption (chi skill) in case I really have to spam Ream or for Alpha Male in case aggro is lost to a HF/amp/triple spark combo and I don't feel the DDer has the 3 seconds to channel roar, which often feels like 5-10 seconds and can be if I'm in the middle of a skill when I hit it and the boss wants one more hit after roar has landed.

    I used to make sure to start off with invoking after I lured. That way you don't need to have any heals stacked and the cleric has the time to position itself as far away as possible (and you get to place yourself between cleric and boss if you weren't the one luring).
  • SeaCrit_Sin - Harshlands
    SeaCrit_Sin - Harshlands Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    You are right Sakubatou, there are advantages to having the Veno pull this boss. As a Barb, having IH stacked on you and having more available genie energy are undoubtedly helpful. However, these aren't the issues the OP asked about. The question here remains the same:
    For my main question I am wondering if it is possible for the barb to catch Garnob in a way that would keep him from running past, putting the barb on the far side of the boss?

    And the answer remains the same - The best way for the Barb to catch Garnob in a way to keep him from running past is for the Barb to pull.


    Plain and simple, the boss will not run past the Barb (and kill our OP in 2 shots) if the Barb is in front of the boss and has aggro. You stated that any decent Veno should not be in danger while pulling. I won't argue that, it is true. But I will use the same logic and state any decent Barb should not be in danger taking a few hits from this boss even without having IH stacked on them. The same can be said for managing chi and maintaining aggro (at this lvl anyways - aggro progressively becomes an issue later on).




    b:nosebleed
  • Furries - Dreamweaver
    Furries - Dreamweaver Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i generally pull him with my genie.. run a little ways down the tunnel ream him then run the rest of the way.

    i know make sure the cleric knows i reamed the boss so she can purify me and stack ih b4 the boss arrives and everything is good
    Killing level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.
  • Akai_Akuma - Heavens Tear
    Akai_Akuma - Heavens Tear Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    hmm, i dont know.. i rather have a veno pull, since i always play togheter with the same i know what she's gonna do, so the set up is easy. Just start with FR a sec be4 the boss passes you, when done correctly, the boss is still in front of you (so you are closer to the squad yes...) and spam alacrity right behind it, if its on lvl 7, you can just keep casting it asap and it will never fail ( well, unless you are casting any skills at that moment). i prefer to do alacrity, 2 times FR and then alacrity again blablabla... you can even mix some dmg skill, sunder, invoke, or w/e you like, just keep casting FR and alacrity
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i generally pull him with my genie.. run a little ways down the tunnel ream him then run the rest of the way.

    i know make sure the cleric knows i reamed the boss so she can purify me and stack ih b4 the boss arrives and everything is good

    if you do that, try making a genie with earthflame + holy path
    then do:

    lure with earthflame -> get him out of the aggro range of other mobs -> run up and alacrity to break heal aggro (shouldnt get debuffed at all so long as your hit lands) -> holy path back towards group. you'll be moving fast enough to be out of range when he starts his next channel, thus he quits channeling and continues to run after you. then just run up and alacrity again to cancel his next channeling when he gets to a place you want him, and commence to reaming. done this way you shouldn't need the cleric to purify you at all once you get back.
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  • Furries - Dreamweaver
    Furries - Dreamweaver Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    if you do that, try making a genie with earthflame + holy path
    then do:

    lure with earthflame -> get him out of the aggro range of other mobs -> run up and alacrity to break heal aggro (shouldnt get debuffed at all so long as your hit lands) -> holy path back towards group. you'll be moving fast enough to be out of range when he starts his next channel, thus he quits channeling and continues to run after you. then just run up and alacrity again to cancel his next channeling when he gets to a place you want him, and commence to reaming. done this way you shouldn't need the cleric to purify you at all once you get back.

    i have holy path and earthflame on my genie b:chuckle

    as for your idea to cancel with that might work but i still got to ream him after the cancel.
    so i would likely get hit with debuff anyways.

    but it doesnt really matter. oone he is reamed i can just holy path back the the cleric and she can stack ih and pruify and the boss will still stay on me cause of the ream.

    besides haveing a nasty debuff show up on my kinda gives them a head up that the boss is aggroed and is coming without me having to type anything.
    Killing level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    well I guess thats where our experiences/mindsets differ. my main priority is myself and the cleric. im fully capable of holding aggro if the squad requires me to be the tank, so long as they do their part and not let their e-peens get in the way and do so much damage that they will take aggro. so realistically speaking, alacrity cancel is all thats needed at the initial pull to break the heal aggro (yes the cleric can start healing you right away so long as your hit connects). Then any damage dealer that isn't capable of even semi tanking decides to start attacking the boss before they see the tell tale explosion of flesh ream - its a lesson learned the hard way if they take aggro and die. Tis essentially the same thing as if a veno were to pull and you intercept it.. if someone were to hit the boss that wasn't the tank and winds up dead - the fault is their own not yours.

    its essentially the same thing that I do when i lure bosses in warsong back to the bubble. I just run up and hit it with alacrity then run back to squad, and alacrity again to cancel its next magic attack - then if I'm the tank I commence to reaming.
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  • Sereneai - Dreamweaver
    Sereneai - Dreamweaver Posts: 351 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Since 'sins can't be one-shotted when they are prepared, I'm usually the puller at pole/nob when no veno is available. I make an effort to run straight at/through the tank, so they can catch before the boss passes them. If they are a moment slow (or just positioned where I can't run through them well), they step back through pole/nob to be between the boss and squad.

    I have also noticed that many of them will move just out of the cleric's range (or to the edge anyway) when the boss is coming, so that they can do this without forcing the cleric to run back.
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  • Redmenace - Heavens Tear
    Redmenace - Heavens Tear Posts: 908 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    All of these are good approaches. Occasionally, if I run off to pull the boss I get yelled at by the veno, who reminds me "It's *MY* job to pull the bosses" - so I let 'em. Same for the BM's and sins and occasional cleric who wants to run in and grab the boss.

    I don't mind - whatever keeps you from falling asleep @ the keyboard. I make a habit of poking the boss with my genie as he starts to run past me, which grabs him just long enough for the cast of FleshReam to grab him.

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  • Ruli - Heavens Tear
    Ruli - Heavens Tear Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Every time veno's lured pole they diedb:cry so i started pulling em both.
    Even pre sage true form i had plenty of time to run back to party, Turn an launch myself at him with Alcracity then start the flesh ream flesh ream alacrity spam.
    Its rare either bossses aoe's will be cast unless im lagging or i just cant get that odd timing that they have, the barb does need too watch for the animation of course.

    But i found that with the right timing flesh ream x2 alacrity spam will get most of the magic attacks.

    When the timing is well executed it can be flawless.

    Been cancelling them skills on a regular basis sinse 74th level basic rule of thumb if the barb can cancel the skills youll not need too party heal which will leave you 'hands free' to iron heart an purify the barb.

    Sadly alot of barbs these days have no idea what most the skills do cos they been raised on BH's an levelled way too fast.
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