Calamity axes? Yay or Nay

Calamities are sort of like a forbidden fruit, they are great for the HP and ability to zerk and have decent damage for their level.

Unfortunately, for 7x/8x barbs the zerk will kill you more than it would help, so if you're going to get a pair of calamities make sure you have a secondary tank weapon (TT80) that does not have a zerk ability, other wise you will tend to die on bosses (in some cases) not to mention pvp.


In short: calam's are great DD weapons, and everyone loves the zerk just as a barb 5% of your hp is alot, and you shouldn't be wearing them for tanking 100% of the time just yet.

Pvp: zerk-arma-crit b:nosebleed

EDIT:
Seems I've been outvoted, which is more than alright ^^.

At 7x/8x I was expected to tank 79/89 for my guild. The highest level cleric we had at the time was 82. I am not a fan of them, because more often than not when our cleric went down the zerk would kill me shortly after.

Calamity axes are fine if you have a cleric, but I still say have a secondary weapon (be it TT70 or 80) and if you go with TT70, I say go for Thunderbolt. (No point in having two weapons that give hp, specially since one gives less)
-for when/if the cleric dies-
This might be an outdated view, since we have so many people leveling so quickly, and so many high levels across the boards, but still it's a valid reason specially since with those high levels you can farm a TT70 in about an hour, and calams are dirt cheap.

@Saku:

That's a bit harsh, but once again I may be outdated :P calams didn't fall from the sky at one point.

Just go for calamity axes. Unless it's grinding you shouldn't have an issue, as any time that you would be tanking you'll have a cleric healing you, and losing 600 or so HP every 20 seconds isn't really a big deal and more than likely you won't even notice the HP loss while tanking.

Unless you aren't tanking with Calamity's (just a DD) and therefore getting no heals, you may want to keep track of your HP. Other than that, they are good for decent spike damage. Useful in both PvE and PvP in my opinion.

I never had cala axes, they cost 10m when I was lvl 70b:cry

They are clearly the best wep from 70-80. That said I dont think you will be kicked from squads for having tt70.

I thought there were general consensus that sac strike procs ~19-20%. I think the old zerk was 30% but not really sure.

Calamity for a tank, yes. Why: as stated before, better health, better damage and therefore better agro ability.

Calamity for a DD, Preferably not unless your using your own pots to heal or the boss is really easy. Why: Clerics primary job is to protect the tank, DDs are secondary, If you chose to use Calamity then you know you can lose health becasue of it, and there are moments where the cleric cant heal you and the hp loss could prove fatal

I persoly dont like Calamity becasue it has lead to a few almost full wipes where the DD has lost >half his health and i cant stop healing the tank or he dies. And the first time I encountered a DD using Calamity i thought agro got switched and healed him then the barbie died <.< To this day I ask dds with calamity if they can use something else on the harder bosses

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Definite Tanking Weapon.

I have seen barbs kicked for having Heraldry Axes. I have kicked barbs for having Heraldry Axes. Seeing those is a dead giveaway you don't know how to play your class or know what you are doing. When a barb has Heraldry Axes they will have less hp, and about 35-40% less damage output which means less aggro ability. Why would I bring a barb that isn't geared for hp or holding aggro?

First off. DD aggro we generate while tanking is absurdly minimal. our aggro comes from flesh ream. having a little more damage, while it does technically generate more DD. will have little to no noticeable gain in aggro holding.

DDing in human for with calas also as stated casue issues when they ticks start adding up.

And while calas really do give you a nice boost in max hp. that is almost if not completly negated by the loss of hp the cleric has to make up for when your proc activates. And while YOU wont notice the loss in HP. your cleric mostly likely will if they are not a pure build or don't have the a decent wep.

And while your not really responsible for the gear or build of the cleric. its never a good idea to get a wepaon that you know is ganna make tanking harder.

So while cala might be great for pvp. i dont recommend them for tanking.

BloodyOne - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and get that polehammer that drains mp instead of hp with each crit. hp is worth waaaay more then mp if you want that extra.

Just no to that weapon, (nimble? ) I think the ADD is called

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thanks for the warning. Based on your response, I'll be happy to recommend to anyone who asks to avoid your server at all costs.

Since you also have a barb, you of all people should know that barbs have been overlooked in the aggro department, and it's mind-numbingly difficult to keep aggro these days.

Or maybe it's because the Sins/BMs/Archers/Wizzies are even worse at modulating their damage - so the damn tank can tank. Now that everyone has power-leveled to 100 in a month or 2, they have no idea how to play their class. Instead, everyone is a Crit Ho, and whines like a baby when they grab aggro.

Good job using your vast and encyclopedic knowledge to help *train* barbs who are trying to learn and level. I'm sure they'll learn more by you just spitting on them and kicking them out of squad.

No wait - you *tell them* "You're an idiot for having those axes" then kick them out of your squad.

That'll learn 'em.

To OP:

Calamities are great damage axes, and are good to have along with another set of axes to use when you *don't* have reliable heals. There will be plenty of instances where a bad aoe, or multiple squad "grab aggro/die" instances will distract the cleric from you. Have another set handy as well, and keep your eyes open for situations where you might be on your own.

For PvP, calamities are the bomb, until you get GX's.

...*sighs* being trolled by idiots. We are talking about axes that are used between level 70-90. Barbs don't have too much trouble with aggro until hitting the 80's but its still managable until 90+. My point was if a barb is brought into a squad and doesn't have the ability to hold aggro and doesn't have the ability to tank then they are little more than a buff monkey looking for a free ride. Barbs weren't kicked until they proved themselves absolutely useless to the squad and just freeloading from others work. This could be anything from missing equipment, not having a weapon, having broken weapons, not having pots, or not being willing to tank.

You criticize hyper noobs but would be perfectly fine having someone in your squad that doesn't do anything but watch? I'm polite if I need to kick someone. I tell them why they were kicked and what they can do to correct it.

Your last comment points out that squad wipes can be caused by aggro change and the cleric not knowing who to heal. Calamity axes majorly help prevent that. You are focusing on taking a very tiny bit of damage every 6 seconds like its a huge flaw, but the almost guaranteed risk of aggro changing doesn't concern you at all?

You're right. Please avoid my server.

Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »

First off. DD aggro we generate while tanking is absurdly minimal. our aggro comes from flesh ream. having a little more damage, while it does technically generate more DD. will have little to no noticeable gain in aggro holding.

DDing in human for with calas also as stated casue issues when they ticks start adding up.

Multiple times I have joined squads with two barbs. When discussed who would tank I allowed them and attacked in human. Several barbs were unable to hold aggro from me while I auto attacked in human form with calamities and they spammed flesh ream. Damage adds up. After that we switched to tanking because it was obvious they couldn't hold aggro from a single squad member.

If you don't believe damage plays any effect the unequip your weapon and try tanking. There is no 5% zerk penalty from that.

Freizer - Lost City wrote: »

Just no to that weapon, (nimble? ) I think the ADD is called

Nimble is the accuracy proc. You guys are talking about Cudgel of Ancient Alloy with the Gloom proc. Gloom is usualy around a 30% dmg boost if I remember. I used it on my bm and tested it out then. Sacrificial strike doubles damage but effects hp, Gloom gives about a 30% bump but effects mp.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

If the boss doesn't AOE then there's no way they could be fatal. Once your current HP goes below 5% of your maximum HP sacrificial strike just doesn't proc.

Umm... Yes it does, lol. Duel someone but have them get healed by a cleric. It'll take about 3-4minutes for calams to proc enough to kill you but your hp continues to drop and calams continue to proc.


Last comments. PvP, it's awesome. PvE tank, it's awesome. PvE DD, it's awesome but you have to be willing heal yourself and not distract the cleric. It's about 1 hp food every minute or two. If the boss has an aoe the squad heal will heal what sacrificial strike removes.

As a cleric I love when my barb has calamities because I trust they'll hold aggro better. I know my bosses well enough to know if my DDers are recieving aoe dmg, or zerk damage. I normally notice long before we get to a boss that they are using zerk axes because I see them taking zerk damage within the first 20 seconds of fighting mobs.

Consider zerk doubles an attack to a 15k dmg hit on a blood painted tank with 10k hp. 500hp removed 300hp healed. 2% hp loss total. Less if you deal better dmg.

It is a tanks job to hold aggro and have enough hp for that. If you are focusing on hp so much that your damage is poor, maybe you should make your hp work for you for holding aggro also. We all try and create huge hp pools then complain about aggro. You don't survive or die from bosses over 5% hp. Your goal should be to have enough hp to use calamity axes safely. If you are level 85 and have 6k hp buffed and in tiger form you prolly should pick a weapon without zerk on it.

Umm... Yes it does, lol. Duel someone but have them get healed by a cleric. It'll take about 3-4minutes for calams to proc enough to kill you but your hp continues to drop and calams continue to proc.

No, it doesn't.


Run up to a pillar in TT and auto attack it with calamity axes equipped. You will NEVER die. I've tried it just auto attacking and spamming armageddon trying to kill myself and after 10 minutes I gave up. If you're below 5% hp then it simply wont proc.

BloodyOne - Dreamweaver wrote: »

im senseing some hostility on this thread b:shocked if were all barbs here then lets be nice. who wants 2 sing kumbaya? =D

Only if we can hold hands and sway rhythmicaly while Redmenace braids my hair.

I think we're just talking about two different things. Sounds like he's arguing its merits for DDing and I'm arguing its merits for tanking. Or we just tend to have different views on what a barb should be. I know the two camps of barbs are "more dmg/aggro" and "more hp". I tend to be on the squishy side but never had a problem with aggro. Considering he says holding aggro past level 70 is impossible, I think he is in the hp camp. Just different views and not worth arguing someone who doesn't get the points in my post.

From the day i hit 70 to the day i hit 80 i have used Calams, to tank, to grind to DD, to do everything, i did in fact have TT80 heraldry axes in my invet to, for if we had another barb, or higher lvl player running and they tanked, so i wouldn't kill my self.

Zerk still procs after 5% HP, i dont use skills when i grind, nor heal my self until im down to less than 1k HP, and when i had my calams on, it still proc'd when I had less than 2k HP, and thats a truck load less than 5% of my HP

Sakubatou, please dont claim Sanctuary as "your" server, it clearly isnt, i could of sworn you gave it to wizzled for 5coin

As a tank, that can still remember using Calams to tank, and can still remember using them, I had absolutely no problems at all what so ever with tanking anything with calams.

I would recommend using them, they give more HP than their TT70 counterparts, Do more Dmg than the TT70 counterparts, and because they are a grade higher than TT70 they refine better, use them, but always have a second pair of axes in your invent just in case your not tanking and the cleric cant spare the time to heal you.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

No, it doesn't.


Run up to a pillar in TT and auto attack it with calamity axes equipped. You will NEVER die. I've tried it just auto attacking and spamming armageddon trying to kill myself and after 10 minutes I gave up. If you're below 5% hp then it simply wont proc.

When you have less than 5% hp sac strike still proc as in x2 dmg, you just dont loose any hp.

When you have less than 5% hp sac strike still proc as in x2 dmg, you just dont loose any hp.

No, it doesn't.


Go to any NPC, pillar in TT, invisible mob in TT, w/e and auto attack and spam armageddon until you get as low on HP as you possibly can. You will not proc sacrificial strike until your hp rises above 5%.


For best testing, go to the pet manager in south east corner of arch. Jump and then press tab and you should target some invisible mob slightly above the head of the NPC. Run up to that mob and use armageddon and then auto attack, it should bring you to very low HP. From that point on auto attack.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Only if we can hold hands and sway rhythmicaly while Redmenace braids my hair.

I think we're just talking about two different things. Sounds like he's arguing its merits for DDing and I'm arguing its merits for tanking. Or we just tend to have different views on what a barb should be. I know the two camps of barbs are "more dmg/aggro" and "more hp". I tend to be on the squishy side but never had a problem with aggro. Considering he says holding aggro past level 70 is impossible, I think he is in the hp camp. Just different views and not worth arguing someone who doesn't get the points in my post.

The extra damage of Calamities *does* help hold aggro. Aggro comes from Flesh Ream *first*, and damage second. If you have a cleric on you, and people in your squad who aren't determined to steal aggro, you're fine.

Other axes work fine for tanking as well. You are using the same Flesh Ream, but with *slightly* less damage.

I keep crit axes and tanking axes for each situation. There are plenty of situations where I was damn happy I didn't have axes that would steal my HP, but axes that would steal MP (gloom) or axes that fire and give phys/mag defense. The 3-3 BH boss that tends to eat clerics alive, the final boss in 3-3 (when the cleric gets 1-shot), the first boss in Nirvana( when the cleric eats it on the circles), the stun boss near the end of frost (for when the cleric is stunned), the last boss in frost (the 50% HP aoe). All of these are situations where axes that don't suck down your HP are appropriate.

And yes, crit axes won't kill you, by themselves. If you stand up to *anything*, and hit it with your calams or GX's, it will never take your HP to zero. Of course, since you're *tanking*, the boss is hitting you too.

My point is that while all gear has it's place, if you are relying on these tricks to keep aggro, you need better gear/a restat/ *have your squad members crank it down a notch*.

A 4-5 DPS lvl 100 sin/BM or lvl 100 Wiz will ping-pong aggro from a similarly leveled and equipped Barb (non-claw Barb). This is *fact*, and any other barb here will, and has told you the same.

RedMenace

\Demon, rank 8, 17k HP
\\you're not worth the trouble either, Sonny

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

When you're in the level range where you'll be using calamities then weapon damage wont be much of an issue when it comes to holding aggro.


I remember one TT2-3 I did in my late 70s where my axes completely broke with ape almost dead. I went ahead and tanked soulripper immediately afterwards with no weapon equipped, just spamming flesh ream.

Most of the problem here is the BM playing a Barb like it's a BM. BM's hold aggro only by weapon damage, and barbs weapon damage is far secondary to the aggro of Roar and Flesh Ream.

Barbs aren't big furry BMs, they're a class of their own and are played properly like no other.

If you play/tank with your barb in stand-up all the time, then yes, weapon damage is vital. Some people just don't understand that Barb Tank = Cat Form + Flesh Ream. Otherwise, roll BM and be done with it.

RedMenace