HA/AA build?

RouxLouka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I doubt it would be enough to tank with. Buffs don't count for summon's stats. You would still have better stats than your summon in the end, aside from physical attack.

This.
Not to mention that Mystic is, imho, the class I would really never go HA with... It's gonna nerf fairly seriously your mana pool, and seeing how mystics are the biggest mana suckers ever, even with spamming pots you will find yourself in trouble if you have to spam heal your pet. (which you will certainly have to do, since with HA you will have lower mag atk, which means weaker heals)

Well, for the record, I'm HA, probably the first and only HA mystic atm.

Idk, I'm not having any troubles, and I like it.

My summon benefits from ~400 extra pdef even at lvl 37.

I wouldn't blast it prematurely, BUT, I'll admit, one of the main reasons why I'm doing this is because I have a +9 tt90 glaive waiting for me, which will compensate for my lack of mattk.

Shifong - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And i have a +10 nirvana glaive waiting for me. But that doesn't mean it compensates my damage. If i go HA it means i'd cut my matk back A LOT compared to what i have as arcane with the same weapon. Pets in general are quite weak, and are a mere tool. Main reasons are, the damage sucks on it, so it can't ever keep aggro. And they are not as strong as a herc. At level 100 endgame, veno pets are only used as dd add, or occasional luring. A mystic pet that's worse in both tanking and dd'ing compared to a herc means that going HA for the sole purpose of adding a little more pdef to your pet is a complete waste.

Yes, I never disputed that herc > mystic summons.

That being said, do I want to steal aggro from my pet with 1 nature's vengeance? Probably not. So using that wep, or mine, as full arcane isn't the best idea if you're using pet to tank.

My chihyu can keep aggro so far btw. And it's too early to tell how the mechanics work for mystic pets and how gear/refines affect it, so your unrelenting assumption about the lack of benefit of HA for pet pdef has no ground or evidence.

Either way, I'm allowed to play the game the way I want to. I've already experimented with full arcane builds on wiz, cleric, and psy, and I must say, I'm bored of it. HA mystic is not impossible, and it has its merits and its shortcomings, as any build has.
One thing I'll say though, is that it's fun as hell. Least for me.

PorkDumpling - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, I never disputed that herc > mystic summons.

That being said, do I want to steal aggro from my pet with 1 nature's vengeance? Probably not. So using that wep, or mine, as full arcane isn't the best idea if you're using pet to tank.

My chihyu can keep aggro so far btw. And it's too early to tell how the mechanics work for mystic pets and how gear/refines affect it, so your unrelenting assumption about the lack of benefit of HA for pet pdef has no ground or evidence.

Either way, I'm allowed to play the game the way I want to. I've already experimented with full arcane builds on wiz, cleric, and psy, and I must say, I'm bored of it. HA mystic is not impossible, and it has its merits and its shortcomings, as any build has.
One thing I'll say though, is that it's fun as hell. Least for me.

It doesn't matter what armor u wear at 3x-4x. You're not sacrificing many stat point that early on. Once you start needing 200 extra stat points to equip Heavy, thats when it actually affects your performance, than you can start classify yourself as a "HA Mystic" not at 3x when you can equip anything you feel like.

But i really doubt being anything but AA later on is fun to play. Specially if u look at the massive mp-usage a Mystic have. Even as full magic build Mystic, its hard to keep up with skills, summons and heals - than add the fast channeling. Its almost impossible to play on full capacity without mp-charm on before 75+ when you can start spam event pots.

Just healing your summon costs x3 compared to veno heal pet at lvl 10 ffs. Mystics skills are as expensive as wizards ones, difference is wizards have slow channeling, dont have to sacrifice mp for summons and gets 60% extra mp pool from wellspring.

Venos for example dont even need a mp-pool, they have 2 skills for full mp pretty much and all skills are very cheap to use.

Using HA maybe boost your summons defense a bit (i dont know the formula, dont think anyone does yet), but it doesn't do anything for its hp as far as i know. Its not the repetitive psychical attacks from a boss that hurts. Its when bosses uses their max magic attack, status effects and other **** every 10-20 sec you might die. A bit extra phy def doesn't help much against that. Heal Summon will also be weaker when you have minimum magic.

I really doubt Mystics will tank anything after 9X anyway unless they solo. Just as veno, they wont be able to hold aggro in a party. Mystics are way better at being a cleric/DD in one class than tanking. Thats what makes them kinda OP, the fact that they can deal high dmg, heal the tank, heal the entire party, all at the same time replacing pretty much 2 people >_<

Shifong - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You should read my previous post a little better.

The mechanics of the mystic pet isn't the issue. It's the ability to keep aggro at endgame (100+) that matters. And i can assure you that your pet will not be a tank, unless you like to solo and play your mystic as a veno and kill everything slow.

I'm a HA/AA veno so i got nothing against your build and i don't mind if you go that route. But my reasons for being one on my veno is different. My herc is a better DD then mystic pets, and i steal aggro from my herc on bosses who are not level 150 very easy. And any person with 2.5 aps or more will steal aggro from my herc on a level 150 boss.

I did a solo bh29 today on my 77 pure magic mystic. I let the devil pet tank first. Then decided to recast the pet so it would attack me, and my mystic was tanking it easier then my pet did and i could kill it faster.

So in short, why bother raising your pet's pdef when it's not going to tank at endgame instances and such at the cost of giving yourself lower attacks and lower heals.

My point is that despite chihyu being weaker than herc, you don't know if it will be strong enough or not to be a primary tank.
For instance, how do refines come into play (they do affect it, but how much?). Mechanics matter completely in this discussion.
Just as refines work exponentially, benefits for chihyu might be exponential too. There's not enough information on a lvl 100 chihyu benefiting from full refines/endgame gear for you to say that it cannot be a tank period.

I read your earlier post well enough. This is my point though, which you have not addressed.

Chickpea - Lost City wrote: »

It doesn't matter what armor u wear at 3x-4x. You're not sacrificing many stat point that early on. Once you start needing 200 extra stat points to equip Heavy, thats when it actually affects your performance, than you can start classify yourself as a "HA Mystic" not at 3x when you can equip anything you feel like.

But i really doubt being anything but AA later on is fun to play. Specially if u look at the massive mp-usage a Mystic have. Even as full magic build Mystic, its hard to keep up with skills, summons and heals - than add the fast channeling. Its almost impossible to play on full capacity without mp-charm on before 75+ when you can start spam event pots.

Just healing your summon costs x3 compared to veno heal pet at lvl 10 ffs. Mystics skills are as expensive as wizards ones, difference is wizards have slow channeling, dont have to sacrifice mp for summons and gets 60% extra mp pool from wellspring.

Venos for example dont even need a mp-pool, they have 2 skills for full mp pretty much and all skills are very cheap to use.

Using HA maybe boost your summons defense a bit (i dont know the formula, dont think anyone does yet), but it doesn't do anything for its hp as far as i know. Its not the repetitive psychical attacks from a boss that hurts. Its when bosses uses their max magic attack, status effects and other **** every 10-20 sec you might die. A bit extra phy def doesn't help much against that. Heal Summon will also be weaker when you have minimum magic.

I really doubt Mystics will tank anything after 9X anyway unless they solo. Just as veno, they wont be able to hold aggro in a party. Mystics are way better at being a cleric/DD in one class than tanking. Thats what makes them kinda OP, the fact that they can deal high dmg, heal the tank, heal the entire party, all at the same time replacing pretty much 2 people >_<

I have used pw calc and already have the equips with enough stat boosts to wear TT90 HA armor and glaive.

And size of mp pool isn't as great as people make it out to be. Sure, you start out with 9k mana instead of 6k. Mp regeneration is near nill in combat, meaning you only get that extra 3k mana buffer. After that, there's practically any difference. However, yes, I agree, mystic skills are extremely mana-intensive, but considering my point above, this problem will affect HA and AA pretty much the same. The only difference is with sage spark mp regeneration, but you really need to have like 15k mp total to make sage spark regen that much more noticeable (like my wiz has).

And to the point about bosses, I'd rather have a chihyu with high pdef that can easily withstand normal attacks over one that can reduce magic attack but keeps dying to phys ones. Maybe's we're talking about different instances, but for the ones I'm interested in, phys def would be more useful. Again, game preferences and goals make a difference, so HA isn't right for everyone.