Sin vs BM

not sure since i haven't played a bm,

but i will say that once you get to 89 and get your 3rd spark, you get absurdly more powerful than before.

89 with triple spark >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 89 with double spark.

shades were a thing in the past when i got demon spark >.> before i could barely get one down to half health with double spark, now i can kill it, along with the adds in 1 triple spark. And charm never ticks anymore on them

Verbicide - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Haha AA's are easy for me to kill, however I don't dual enough to really get all that decent at pvp so I still struggle with other physical players. I didn't know fcs still gave you exp at 90+ and I meant to ask in my previous post what DoD's JoSD's and DoT's mean.

I know there are a lot of posts on the forums on which gear to use and some of it is rank so I am working on rep, and I saw in a thread that sages can get up to 5aps as well but from the vibe I got from it Demon is a little easier, so I am still debating that a little. Better stuns or more hp from bp, which with bosses one would benefit more from 3% bp more than stuns because you can't stun bosses. Just trying to kind of plan out my char so I don't end up with one I don't want lol.

Just keeping is short, since it seems you already found the sage/demon comparison threads. Sage can reach 5 aps but need high magic genie and lvl1 windshield, which overwrites damage reduc from sage spark. However, the choise between 4 aps with 25% damage reduc, or 5 aps with 6% reduc (and a bit more bp) is nice cause you can adapt to the situations.

Sereneai - Dreamweaver wrote: »

AT 5APS the sage build is certaintly epic win, compared to a 5APS demon sin.


HOWEVER, sage sins have difficulty reaching that attack speed, since Sage Spark doesn't increase attack rate like demon spark. Therefore, the extra heal from sage BP usually means that they heal the same as demons, making up for the loss of attack speed/dps.

and your squad mates might drool on you a bit for it.

also, duels =/= pvp

O.o seems you are not really knowing what you're saying, or I'm just reading it wrong. Like above, sage 5 aps means not the total effect of sage spark, and a same geared demon sin can do the same (demon spark then windshield) for exact identical speed and damage reduc. Ofc sage will heal 50% more (which is only half of what makes sage survivability better), but that is in totall contradiction with what you say after.

That "sage bp usually means they heal same as demons" is a fairytale some demon invented so they can state demon is so much superior in every point. It only applies when both have 3.33 base attack speed, and sage doesn't use windshield. The reason not to use windshield is to have sage spark massively reduce the incoming damage, which means demon sins would be potting or dying. So it may only apply when the sage sin is tanking with the need of sage sparks damage reduc, which means he's already dealing more damage then the demon sin.
On top off all, that "usual" implies you're always sparking. However, if you spark on some fb mob squad will already have killed it before the 3 sec are over.
I think I should also mention, that while ppl take into account the att speed increase of demon spark, they totally forget the damage reduc on sage spark. 25% damage reduc on a light armor class is a lot. (To avoid the "name a boss sage sin can tank and demon not", just think of wurlord and cosmoforce. ofc with enough refines, demon can tank it to, but it's way easier as sage without bb)

O.o seems post got longer then intended lol

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

O.o seems you are not really knowing what you're saying, or I'm just reading it wrong. Like above, sage 5 aps means not the total effect of sage spark, and a same geared demon sin can do the same (demon spark then windshield) for exact identical speed and damage reduc. Ofc sage will heal 50% more (which is only half of what makes sage survivability better), but that is in totall contradiction with what you say after.
[snip stuff out]

Yeah, I realize I worded it poorly b:surrender I intended to say that for a Daemon SPARKING TO 5aps, and an identically geared Sage sparking, the BP+ doesn't really out-heal demon. If both Daemon and Sage are sitting at 4 APS unsparked, they can match speed and damage reduction, and the extra 50% heal is a bonus b:victory however, sins don't reach 4APS easily, due to the cost (as you know), 3.33 and under is more common.

Fictional damage numbers, for convenience:

Lets assume both the sage and demon sin sit at 3.33 aps base, and do average 3000dmg/hit
unsparked:
Daemon=(3.33x3000)x0.02=200 HP/sec heal
while
Sage=(3.33x3000)x0.03=299.7 HP/sec heal

The Sage CLEARLY out-heals the Daemon sin, no questions asked, so in fast moving squads, that sage BP>demon BP (not counting bosses where there is time for/advantage to sparking)

HOWEVER, that Daemon sin sparks to 5 aps, so now
Daemon=(5x3000)x0.02=300 HP/sec heal
while
Sage still=(3.33x3000)x0.03=299.7 HP/sec heal

So at base APS=<3.33, Daemon sins HEAL equal to Sage sins, in situations where sparking is viable/needed

that is what I was trying to point out, and what I think most Daemon sins who bash Sage BP see b:sad

I know that is a little crude, and does NOT take into consideration variances in crit rates (which actually balance out, imo, but that's another topic), or the damage reduction from sage spark, which is where Sage really sees its advantage in drawn out fights, but my intent was actual healing from BP, not overall ability to take damage.


Again, I am aware this is academic if you reach 4 APS base, but I can't figure out why anyone who can afford that would go Daemon b:shutup (except maybe the stuns b:dirty)


XD did that make more sense than my first post?

/i currently plan on sage, btw
//no i don't have an archer >.>
///D: sorry for slightly OT post

@ the ppl arguing over sage/demon sins:
Using the exact same gear end game, yes a sage sin out heals a demon, but sage bp is a squad buff so you can give it to a demon {ijs}.

it's already been proven that sage sins can out tank demons with a better healing ability and the dmg reduction, but if there is a demon sin in your squad they will most likely steal your agro and you wont be tanking.

not to mention bp is already so overpowered because of the amount of dmg a sin deals and the aps just make it rediculous.

as far as demon or sage goes, personaly i don;t regret going demon cause of the fact i can still be 4 aps sparked w/ R9 zerk daggers. Thow in a subsea, tangle mire and frenzy and watch your dmg fly xD

@ OP;;
sins deal more dmg then bms for the fact that they can perma spark, and spark+ < the -.1 aps advantage of fist at lvl 80