Tanking mobs/bosses

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide · February 2011

I know I am a barb and i'll be talking about tanking, but would like this thread to stay in general discussion to see point of view of all classes. And it's not a "yulk" nor a QQ Thread, so I think will actually be different, lol..

I have a "theory" and I want to have views before going to put it in practice and blow away my hp charm.

"Let me tank that boss he's magical, he won't hurt me"

Ok , my "theory" :

-- All mobs/bosses have a physical atk and a magical atk. Stay far, they will cast and cast, close in and melee them, they will melee you and cast a lot less often. Right ?

Question number 1 : If a mob is labeled "Fire" does it just relate to the affinitiy of the magic he will use ? (Even if it's just a buff/de-buff)

Exemple 1 : bh59. All 5 bosses are "magical", each their element. Yes, if a mage class tanks them from afar, they will just cast and barely hurt them cause of high magic resists. But if a melee type (Be it Barb, Bm or Sin) goes to tank them, they will melee as well and cast less.

If say, Zimo (labeled Metal)..melees someone, is it physical damage or is it metal damage ?

In that case, probably Physical. Cause I woudn't see a cleric go melee it and survive no problem cause he would hit metal..

If said tank knows how to cancel the magic casting : Bm's kick, Barb's alacrity or sin's hmm..(dunno if they have one, I don't play sin) or even genie's Earthquake or Lighting something is timed correctly, magic will not become a problem, right ?

Exemple 2 : bh79 : Styg.(Labeled None) Physical from close AND far. He CAN one shot a mage class trying to tank from a distance

Is it safe to say then, that "most" mobs are "None" (Physical) from close and "Whatever label" when they casts ?

My point ?

I don't claim to be one as I will probably fail trying like most I know did, but : Can a barb (or even BM/Sin),not charmed..tank Nightspike by bringing him outta water out of range of the DoD's ? Relying on alacarity to cancel the water AoE and/or True Emptyness on genie to shield in time ?? ANd around how much HP would make it "not too stressful" ?

I have been wondering that for a long time, and want some insights, before I go blindly try and end up "swimming with the fishes" or "floating like a vulgar..well..Tiger rug u would put in front of a fireplace" or something...b:surrender

FatalPulse - Raging Tide · February 2011

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have been wondering that for a long time, and want some insights, before I go blindly try and end up "swimming with the fishes" or "floating like a vulgar..well..Tiger rug u would put in front of a fireplace" or something...b:surrender

i dont wanna swim with u any waysb:angry

Vitenka - Dreamweaver · February 2011

All mobs/bosses have a physical atk and a magical atk. Stay far, they will cast and cast, close in and melee them, they will melee you and cast a lot less often. Right ?

Most. By no means all. Some bosses/mobs have only a magical attack, some have only ranged physical attacks and a few have only close-range physical attacks.
Most have both, though.

And most mobs/bosses with a ranged attack will prefer to use it if they can, rather than running up to you. Some will actively try to run away and use it, most will just do so if they have the opportunity.

Question number 1 : If a mob is labeled "Fire" does it just relate to the affinitiy of the magic he will use ? (Even if it's just a buff/de-buff)

A mobs element relates directly to their defence.

MOST mobs with a magic attack have the same element magic attack as they have for defence. I'd not swear that they all do, nor that there aren't any with multiple elements on attack.

bh59. All 5 bosses are "magical", each their element. Yes, if a mage class tanks them from afar, they will just cast and barely hurt them cause of high magic resists. But if a melee type (Be it Barb, Bm or Sin) goes to tank them, they will melee as well and cast less.

True. Note that in 59 specifically, some of the bosses have pretty nasty physical attacks, but fairly weak magical ones. Water and fire, especially. Zimo (metal) is a bit more balanced.

If say, Zimo (labeled Metal)..melees someone, is it physical damage or is it metal damage ?

Physical.

[/QUOTE]In that case, probably Physical. Cause I woudn't see a cleric go melee it and survive no problem cause he would hit metal..[/QUOTE]

Indeed, a cleric meleeing zimo would fare poorly. But the cleric can just stand a little bit away and zimo will only cast.

If said tank knows how to cancel the magic casting : Bm's kick, Barb's alacrity or sin's hmm..(dunno if they have one, I don't play sin) or even genie's Earthquake or Lighting something is timed correctly, magic will not become a problem, right ?

In theory. In practice, you would need a full team of people suing all their interrupt skills AND genies and STILL the boss would probably get off a few attacks. The cooldown on most interrupt skills is too slow, because the boss will just instantly start channelling again in this situation.

Those skills are much more use on mobs/bosses which usually melee, and then sometimes (once every 10s usually, though some have other rules) throws a devastating magic attack.

bh79 : Styg.(Labeled None) Physical from close AND far. He CAN one shot a mage class trying to tank from a distance

Yes. Actually, styg doesn't have a close-in attack, he uses the same bow-attack at any range; but like most kiting mobs he gives up running away after you've caught him a few times.

Is it safe to say then, that "most" mobs are "None" (Physical) from close and "Whatever label" when they casts ?

Yes.

I don't claim to be one as I will probably fail trying like most I know did, but : Can a barb (or even BM/Sin),not charmed..tank Nightspike by bringing him outta water out of range of the DoD's ? Relying on alacarity to cancel the water AoE and/or True Emptyness on genie to shield in time ?? ANd around how much HP would make it "not too stressful" ?

Yes, physical classes can tank nightspike. At higher level it's faster that way than having a mage class do it. At lower levels... no idea what you would need. Quite a lot. That guy is brutal for his level.

Edit:
At 82 I'd be willing to try it. Frankly, with a cleric to keep you alive, I'd be willing to try pretty much anything.
If you're hoping to do it without healing? Um, ouch. Not a chance. You'll have to get right up close to cancel and he will eat your face.

CJD - Heavens Tear · February 2011

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

Question number 1 : If a mob is labeled "Fire" does it just relate to the affinitiy of the magic he will use ? (Even if it's just a buff/de-buff)

yes! the mob does fire damage and takes less fire damage(mage) from opponents as well

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

If say, Zimo (labeled Metal)..melees someone, is it physical damage or is it metal damage ?

when it's metal magic damage its shown with the animation of lightning hitting you, that is when Zimo casts magic on you, and you will notice a good amount of HP taken off from you rather than the normal melee attacks you take.

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

If said tank knows how to cancel the magic casting : Bm's kick, Barb's alacrity or sin's hmm..(dunno if they have one, I don't play sin) or even genie's Earthquake or Lighting something is timed correctly, magic will not become a problem, right ?

magic attacks for us melee HA users is a problem, you can cancel it by timing it correct
Example: wurlord boss in 2-x TT, a pain in the *** boss when hit with its magic attack, but if u time it and cancel it more often easy to take down, alacrity is the best skill i find to use cancel on wurlord, Shadowless kick has a kind of long cool down for me.

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

Exemple 2 : bh79 : Styg.(Labeled None) Physical from close AND far. He CAN one shot a mage class trying to tank from a distance

Mage class trying to tank... not a good idea! anyway clerics can take down bh51 bosses easily at a higher level, because all the bosses are elemental based.

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

I don't claim to be one as I will probably fail trying like most I know did, but : Can a barb (or even BM/Sin),not charmed..tank Nightspike by bringing him outta water out of range of the DoD's ? Relying on alacarity to cancel the water AoE and/or True Emptyness on genie to shield in time ?? ANd around how much HP would make it "not too stressful" ?

Yes barb/bm can tank with no stress. I'm don't know how a sin does it never seen one doing so but there maybe sins doing it like peace of cake. BM's can take them down without charm/cleric with use of minus interval gear ( my own experience). I have done it on barb as well without cleric and charm, used tree of protection/ and invoke as well

Edit: Considering the level yes you need to be a bit more high.. forgot to mention that xD

Vitenka was fast to post in detail, while i was making my detailed post hahaha xD!~

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide · February 2011

O.o

Now that's the kind of reply I wanted but didn't even expect.. Detailed enough for me to go to sleep happy and tell my cleric wife tomorrow when we're both up "Ok, today i'm going to bite Nightspike's nose"

And to one of your "concerns" yeah I did say not charmed, but didn't even think one sec to do it with just pots/crab meats/sunder either b:chuckle

The "not too stressful" part was indeed related to the cleric that will keep hp to a decent level

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · February 2011

5.0 -> BP -> **** the cleric -> PROFIT

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide · February 2011

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

5.0 -> BP -> **** the cleric -> PROFIT

As much as I do accept those who were able can get 5 APS either farming/cash shopping. I will not fall into the "go restat to claw barb of gtfo" mold.

I love my "job", I love to tank, I love to see what I can/can't and not be like : "Ok let's start this, i'll press F1, and go refill coffee, by the time i'm back, i'll pick drops" I like to use different techniques the game gave us and see what works best for ME and keeps my wife or whole squad out of harm.

A thank you cause no one died in a squad > Telling them I solo'ed it while taking trash out

CJD - Heavens Tear · February 2011

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

As much as I do accept those who were able can get 5 APS either farming/cash shopping. I will not fall into the "go restat to claw barb of gtfo" mold.

I love my "job", I love to tank, I love to see what I can/can't and not be like : "Ok let's start this, i'll press F1, and go refill coffee, by the time i'm back, i'll pick drops" I like to use different techniques the game gave us and see what works best for ME and keeps my wife or whole squad out of harm.

Thumbs up for you!~ b:victory

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide · February 2011

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

As much as I do accept those who were able can get 5 APS either farming/cash shopping. I will not fall into the "go restat to claw barb of gtfo" mold.

I love my "job", I love to tank, I love to see what I can/can't and not be like : "Ok let's start this, i'll press F1, and go refill coffee, by the time i'm back, i'll pick drops" I like to use different techniques the game gave us and see what works best for ME and keeps my wife or whole squad out of harm.

A thank you cause no one died in a squad > Telling them I solo'ed it while taking trash out

That works, until you reach endgame.

Toliman - Raging Tide · February 2011

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

Question number 1 : If a mob is labeled "Fire" does it just relate to the affinitiy of the magic he will use ? (Even if it's just a buff/de-buff)

No.

Example:
The Myriadtail Wyvern - magic Physical attack
Gluttonix - magic Fire attack

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

...
If say, Zimo (labeled Metal)..melees someone, is it physical damage or is it metal damage ?
...

Physical, but if some DD from your squad will take agro from your barb and Zimo will run far enough from barbarian, Zimo can hit with magic metal damage (after, for example, "sudden" death of DD).

zizoun · February 2011

Not every mob/boss that has an element will cast with that element. That's mainly to show their strongh point in the defense. If a mob is earth, then he will be weak to wood and very strongh defense vs earth attacks, but that doesn't mean he's gonna shot you with earth attacks, sometimes happens, but some others not.

One example is Fugma, he is an earth mob and throws rocks... He's weak to wood, but contrary to popular belief, his rocks are physical attacks not earth... That's one of the bosses that will run away in the moment a barb will try to face him on melee, and won't attack you melee never.

It's pretty clear that you can tank everything if you're a hardhead, but there are easier and less expensive ways to do things and not everything is made "for a barb to tank". Letting a wizzard or a psy tank Nightspike would make things go faster. In this part they wanted some variety in the game and I'm happy they did

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide · February 2011

zizoun wrote: »

One example is Fugma, he is an earth mob and throws rocks... He's weak to wood, but contrary to popular belief, his rocks are physical attacks not earth... That's one of the bosses that will run away in the moment a barb will try to face him on melee, and won't attack you melee never.

Go melee him, get him on a wall to see if he'll keep throwing rocks or hit with claws.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver · February 2011

If a boss (or mob) runs from you 2 or 3 times at the start of a fight, it's either an archer or a pure caster. In the case of Fugma, Fushma, Luminoc and the similar ordinary hexocelots around Dragons End and the Fortress of the Talon (and the similar elite mobs in the Valley of Disaster), they're archers. (Qingzi, who uses the same model as these, is a mixed caster/melee with an Earth element attack.)

Qingzi - Harshlands · February 2011

Didn't read everyone's response, but here are mine.

L_y_n_x - Raging Tide wrote: »

I know I am a barb and i'll be talking about tanking, but would like this thread to stay in general discussion to see point of view of all classes. And it's not a "yulk" nor a QQ Thread, so I think will actually be different, lol..

I have a "theory" and I want to have views before going to put it in practice and blow away my hp charm.

"Let me tank that boss he's magical, he won't hurt me"

Ok , my "theory" :

-- All mobs/bosses have a physical atk and a magical atk. Stay far, they will cast and cast, close in and melee them, they will melee you and cast a lot less often. Right ?

True, considered the boss actually is ranged magic and melee.

Question number 1 : If a mob is labeled "Fire" does it just relate to the affinitiy of the magic he will use ? (Even if it's just a buff/de-buff)

Not necessarily true, Gluttonix in Valley of Disaster, for example, is earth and uses fire DoTs. But he has higher earth-resistance.

Exemple 1 : bh59. All 5 bosses are "magical", each their element. Yes, if a mage class tanks them from afar, they will just cast and barely hurt them cause of high magic resists. But if a melee type (Be it Barb, Bm or Sin) goes to tank them, they will melee as well and cast less.

Here it actually doesn't matter who you get to tank, since it's so easy anyway. On my Psy I used to tank so we could get a better DD than a barb and thus finish faster.

If say, Zimo (labeled Metal)..melees someone, is it physical damage or is it metal damage ?

Physical

In that case, probably Physical. Cause I woudn't see a cleric go melee it and survive no problem cause he would hit metal..

If said tank knows how to cancel the magic casting : Bm's kick, Barb's alacrity or sin's hmm..(dunno if they have one, I don't play sin) or even genie's Earthquake or Lighting something is timed correctly, magic will not become a problem, right ?

Magic won't be a problem with enough HP, either. But you take less damage by interrupting magic, yes.

Exemple 2 : bh79 : Styg.(Labeled None) Physical from close AND far. He CAN one shot a mage class trying to tank from a distance

Styg is a special case in which he is an archer-boss. Runs away twice and then deals 1/2 damage, thus tanked easier by melee classes, he's also physical damage.

Is it safe to say then, that "most" mobs are "None" (Physical) from close and "Whatever label" when they casts ?

No, mobs or bosses doesn't "magically" get an element when they range. The "label" as you put it, is the element they get extra defense from.

My point ?

I don't claim to be one as I will probably fail trying like most I know did, but : Can a barb (or even BM/Sin),not charmed..tank Nightspike by bringing him outta water out of range of the DoD's ? Relying on alacarity to cancel the water AoE and/or True Emptyness on genie to shield in time ?? And around how much HP would make it "not too stressful" ?

Can be done, I know a guy who's done it, though he's quit the game since long. And it's not something I reccomend, since Manta/Nightspike only use magic attacks, starting with a water-def debuff. You'd need to have constant interrupt to interrupt all of his attacks, and that's not possible alone. And the DoDs follow him, so no, you can't get rid of those.

I have been wondering that for a long time, and want some insights, before I go blindly try and end up "swimming with the fishes" or "floating like a vulgar..well..Tiger rug u would put in front of a fireplace" or something...b:surrender

Tanking mobs/bosses

Comments

Categories