Hp/Def to attack/defense levels

Lascial - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Okay, Sorry if I've been asking to much lately. Just wanting to gather as much information and knowledge as I can before I hit 100+.

As of right now, I'm aiming to get Full rank 9, but I'm having problems Deciding which Sharding Path I should take, do to lack of information about endgame damage.

The first thing I want to shard for is Hp, then perhaps a little def, then Attack levels and Defense levels

First, as a Wizard, What is our goal at 100+ on Hit points. How many should we have to give us the best survivability, without sacrificing to much. Best I can come up with is 7000+, Which this will be hard to reach, without +10 refines to some things, or like +7 to everything. Not that that's not doable, it would just cost more then I wish to spend. I have horrible luck when it comes to refining.

As for Physical Defense, I'll have almost right at 3000, thanks to my Wings of the Cloudcharger(I got lucky

Since I'm demon, That will give me almost 7000, self buffed. Is this a legit place to be for Physical Defense? Seems if I go much Higher, it could get.....costly, and less effective.

Alright, now attack and defense levels. Full rank 9 will give 65 attack, 25 def, Jonas another 30 attack. Since I"m a heavy hitting class, should I perhaps just put like 3 Jade's of Steady defense in my armor, to get 31 defense levels to cancel out Jonas blessing, then Go full Attack levels from there? I'm just not sure how many Defense levels I should have to be effective.

The way I see it is, almost everyone and there Grandmother has a Jonas blessing, so If I can block that out, then it's just the attack levels from there equipment. Now full rank 9 is still going to be hitting me hard, but I'm a squishy class, and that's to be expected.

Or should I aim for perhaps 40-50 Defense levels, and the rest Hp and attack levels?

The best I can come up with right now is-
8-Jade of Steady Defense
8-Citrine Shards

Then either 8 more attack levels, or 8 more Garnet shards, or perhaps even a mixture of both?

So Should I try to balance like this, or just focus on one or two things. I dislike focusing on one 1 thing, but 2 is doable, and I think 3 would be the safest.

I'm looking for a nice balanced built in both PvP and PvE(If there is one for us wizards XD)

And please don't Flame me about my build, These are what I would feel most comfortable with, and I know everyone has a different opinion on these kinda things.

So, Can anyone help me here. My PvP experience is limited at the moment, seeing as how mostly it's just Sins popping out, Headhunting me, then laughing as I'm stunned for 5 seconds, and they just crit the hell out of me until I die. Absolute domain isn't level high enough to survive yet

If I even can survive it.

So please give me your opinions on number that you find comfortable at endgame for Hit points, Physical Defense, Attack levels, and Defense levels. And also if there is anything that would be better, please let me know. After all, I came here to find out from those who are there, and have the experience.

So any help you can give is greatly appreciated, and I hope I can get a better understanding of endgame from this.(Though from what I hear, with rank 9, it's who ever stun/sleep/seals first is usually going to win XD)

Galox - Heavens Tear · February 2011

If your not very experienced in PvP, I'd suggest trying out more PvP, before deciding to go R9. R9 is big, bad and Costly. And, Yes, it's Awesome. But it is a major decision, are you SURE you Want to go R9? And..are you aiming for the entire set?

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6b930b954c57fc1f
Is Something a little like that what your aiming for?

EDIT: Changed the Mixed Shards

EDIT EDIT: Changed Refines for more Efficient HP (ty Adroit)

Adroit - Lost City · February 2011

Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If your not very experienced in PvP, I'd suggest trying out more PvP, before deciding to go R9. R9 is big, bad and Costly. And, Yes, it's Awesome. But it is a major decision, are you SURE you Want to go R9? And..are you aiming for the entire set?

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=14fe86c773fedac4

Is Something a little like that what your aiming for?

didn't read OP, but that link in Galox's post hit one of my pet peeves. DO NOT MIX SHARDS IN ONE PIECE OF ARMOR. Sharding is one of the easiest ways to change your character.. and if lets say you decided you didn't need the pdef, you wanted more hp and you wanted to ditch your pdef shards for citrines.. it would really suck to purify the chest for instance and lose some citrines that you are going to put right back in. There really is no reason to mix, it just makes changing your shards around more expensive if you ever choose to do so.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

didn't read OP, but that link in Galox's post hit one of my pet peeves. DO NOT MIX SHARDS IN ONE PIECE OF ARMOR. Sharding is one of the easiest ways to change your character.. and if lets say you decided you didn't need the pdef, you wanted more hp and you wanted to ditch your pdef shards for citrines.. it would really suck to purify the chest for instance and lose some citrines that you are going to put right back in. There really is no reason to mix, it just makes changing your shards around more expensive if you ever choose to do so.

+1.

besides, u dont get the sparkly effects :b

Stubbie - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Lascial - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Okay, Sorry if I've been asking to much lately. Just wanting to gather as much information and knowledge as I can before I hit 100+.

As of right now, I'm aiming to get Full rank 9, but I'm having problems Deciding which Sharding Path I should take, do to lack of information about endgame damage.

The first thing I want to shard for is Hp, then perhaps a little def, then Attack levels and Defense levels

First, as a Wizard, What is our goal at 100+ on Hit points. How many should we have to give us the best survivability, without sacrificing to much. Best I can come up with is 7000+, Which this will be hard to reach, without +10 refines to some things, or like +7 to everything. Not that that's not doable, it would just cost more then I wish to spend. I have horrible luck when it comes to refining.

As for Physical Defense, I'll have almost right at 3000, thanks to my Wings of the Cloudcharger(I got lucky
Since I'm demon, That will give me almost 7000, self buffed. Is this a legit place to be for Physical Defense? Seems if I go much Higher, it could get.....costly, and less effective.

Alright, now attack and defense levels. Full rank 9 will give 65 attack, 25 def, Jonas another 30 attack. Since I"m a heavy hitting class, should I perhaps just put like 3 Jade's of Steady defense in my armor, to get 31 defense levels to cancel out Jonas blessing, then Go full Attack levels from there? I'm just not sure how many Defense levels I should have to be effective.

The way I see it is, almost everyone and there Grandmother has a Jonas blessing, so If I can block that out, then it's just the attack levels from there equipment. Now full rank 9 is still going to be hitting me hard, but I'm a squishy class, and that's to be expected.

Or should I aim for perhaps 40-50 Defense levels, and the rest Hp and attack levels?

The best I can come up with right now is-
8-Jade of Steady Defense
8-Citrine Shards

Then either 8 more attack levels, or 8 more Garnet shards, or perhaps even a mixture of both?

So Should I try to balance like this, or just focus on one or two things. I dislike focusing on one 1 thing, but 2 is doable, and I think 3 would be the safest.

I'm looking for a nice balanced built in both PvP and PvE(If there is one for us wizards XD)

And please don't Flame me about my build, These are what I would feel most comfortable with, and I know everyone has a different opinion on these kinda things.

So, Can anyone help me here. My PvP experience is limited at the moment, seeing as how mostly it's just Sins popping out, Headhunting me, then laughing as I'm stunned for 5 seconds, and they just crit the hell out of me until I die. Absolute domain isn't level high enough to survive yet If I even can survive it.

So please give me your opinions on number that you find comfortable at endgame for Hit points, Physical Defense, Attack levels, and Defense levels. And also if there is anything that would be better, please let me know. After all, I came here to find out from those who are there, and have the experience.

So any help you can give is greatly appreciated, and I hope I can get a better understanding of endgame from this.(Though from what I hear, with rank 9, it's who ever stun/sleep/seals first is usually going to win XD)

With full r9 +10 gears you will end up with around 8k8 hp unbuffed , with +10 neck and rank belt u will have around 8k5 phydef demon stone barrier (with WoC) That is that hp def u will get w/o sharding

Now decide on wut u want to have more than shard , up to u entirely .

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · February 2011

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=970302

Hope this thread helps b:cute

MageFizban - Lost City · February 2011

Lascial - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How many should we have to give us the best survivability, without sacrificing to much. Best I can come up with is 7000+, Which this will be hard to reach, without +10 refines to some things, or like +7 to everything. Not that that's not doable, it would just cost more then I wish to spend. I have horrible luck when it comes to refining.

What I don't understand is how you plan on spending over $1k USD and decide not to spend for the refinements.

But anyway, I'd say go vit stones over cit gems. If you're awesome and you know it, mix and match shards all you want. Kinda like Luuxun. Cit gem, beaut garnet, avg garnet x 2 in r9 top. You will be the most hipster wiz on DW.

Adroit - Lost City · February 2011

@Lascial - Just kinda an fyi, headhunt lasts 7 seconds normal and 8seconds w/ demon (description is wrong.. same with tele stun.. lvl 10 is 6, sage is 5, and demon is 7.. figure that?). I only really mention this to discourage you getting domain.. as 4 seconds of immune probably won't save you lol. And I don't really agree that the first to get a control skill off will win (if both are equally geared). If you are really worried about control skills (which you should be), you can combat them pretty effectively with a good genie. It's really another subject, but don't just give up on surviving a hit or two.. as its very possible with defense charms and the like.

Anyway, I wouldn't really go for diamond of tigers if you were full rank9. You'll be hitting like a truck already, and the extra attack levels really won't benefit you as much being that they don't compound (going from 0 to 1 attack levels would give you 1% more damage.. going from 100 to 101 atk lvls would give you .5% more damage

). Besides, as rank9 in any type of group pvp you will be a major target.. so you're really going to need as much survivability as you can get.

From what I hear, full jade of steady will probably give you the most survivability, but if you can't afford that or don't want to do that.. you'd probably want to go with either garnets or vit stones imo. I like sharding hp because I die equally often to magic and physical damage.. and hp helps me vs both. Although citrines gems give 115hp and vit stones give 100 for us, with end game refines and whatnot.. the extra resists from vit stones more than make up for the tiny bit of hp you lose (the difference in full sharding (24 slots) vit vs cit gems is 360 hp.. and the vit stones would also be giving a pretty significant resist boost as well.. although I don't remember the exact number). Garnets would be nice though because the pdef gets multiplied so many times with stone barrier, ep buff, bm buff etc.. so if you already have tons of hp.. sharding pdef might make sense (you gotta do the math for yourself).

Galox - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

didn't read OP, but that link in Galox's post hit one of my pet peeves. DO NOT MIX SHARDS IN ONE PIECE OF ARMOR. Sharding is one of the easiest ways to change your character.. and if lets say you decided you didn't need the pdef, you wanted more hp and you wanted to ditch your pdef shards for citrines.. it would really suck to purify the chest for instance and lose some citrines that you are going to put right back in. There really is no reason to mix, it just makes changing your shards around more expensive if you ever choose to do so.

Haha, I know what you mean lol

*Changed It*

Don't know why I mixed shards now >_>

Adroit - Lost City · February 2011

Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Haha, I know what you mean lol

*Changed It*

Don't know why I mixed shards now >_>

@ (I'd probably do that myself because I can acct stash the helm to my other char(s).. but then if I was doing that I'd refine the cape to +10 as well instead of the chest).

Galox - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

@ (I'd probably do that myself because I can acct stash the helm to my other char(s).. but then if I was doing that I'd refine the cape to +10 as well instead of the chest).

I noticed that too, I probably +10d the Helm because I added it first..Dunno, Need to remember to keep the Grades of Equips in Mind. (Never really noticed how much HP you gain when you go to +10 from +7...It's really quite a bit)

Oh, I prefer Citrine Shards because the Defence given by a +VIT doesn't really match up to an Extra 15 HP per Stone (And with the +5% HP Modifier on the Cube Necky, kinda seems to me like a better choice of shard for a Wizzy)

*Changed Again*

Ty for pointing it out Adroit

Adroit - Lost City · February 2011

Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I noticed that too, I probably +10d the Helm because I added it first..Dunno, Need to remember to keep the Grades of Equips in Mind. (Never really noticed how much HP you gain when you go to +10 from +7...It's really quite a bit)

Oh, I prefer Citrine Shards because the Defence given by a +VIT doesn't really match up to an Extra 15 HP per Stone (And with the +5% HP Modifier on the Cube Necky, kinda seems to me like a better choice of shard for a Wizzy)

*Changed Again*

Ty for pointing it out Adroit

haha I don't mean to keep picking no your build.. but you might be surprised how much defense you get with vit stones. Just to make it easy, I used your build and replaced jades of steady with citrine gems for full citrines..

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=148b98d12c456081

Then replaced all the shards with vit stones

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9e0952eeea3ce1e4

Obviously its personal preference because its a tradeoff with hp and defenses, but with just self buff (using your demon stone barrier), the cit gem build would have less than 400 extra hp (9919 vs 9541) while the vit stones would give an extra 1.5k mdef (11822 vs 13268) and an extra 900ish pdef (11102 vs 10274). You don't get that much defense per vit stone, but that extra 15 hp you get from a citrine gem isn't much either. I would probably go with citrine gems myself just because of the cost difference, but I used to have this idea that vit stones on a mage = n00b, and I don't want you to make the same mistake xD

Sun_Burn - Lost City · February 2011

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

haha I don't mean to keep picking no your build.. but you might be surprised how much defense you get with vit stones. Just to make it easy, I used your build and replaced jades of steady with citrine gems for full citrines..

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=148b98d12c456081

Then replaced all the shards with vit stones

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9e0952eeea3ce1e4

Obviously its personal preference because its a tradeoff with hp and defenses, but with just self buff (using your demon stone barrier), the cit gem build would have less than 400 extra hp (9919 vs 9541) while the vit stones would give an extra 1.5k mdef (11822 vs 13268) and an extra 900ish pdef (11102 vs 10274). You don't get that much defense per vit stone, but that extra 15 hp you get from a citrine gem isn't much either. I would probably go with citrine gems myself just because of the cost difference, but I used to have this idea that vit stones on a mage = n00b, and I don't want you to make the same mistake xD

id take 450ish more hp vs 1% more reduction in physical defense, 1-2% in elemental defense.

(citrines ends up with 72% reduction to physical attacks, vit stones give 73%)

If i calculated right, the person would have to be hitting 14,000 or so hits on you to make vit stones worth the loss of 450 hp for 1% more reduction. In which case you'd be dead anyways xD.

Adroit - Lost City · February 2011

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

id take 450ish more hp vs 1% more reduction in physical defense, 1-2% in elemental defense.

(citrines ends up with 72% reduction to physical attacks, vit stones give 73%)

If i calculated right, the person would have to be hitting 14,000 or so hits on you to make vit stones worth the loss of 450 hp for 1% more reduction. In which case you'd be dead anyways xD.

I looked at it full buffed.. and you'd be looking at 80% reduction of both pdef and mdef (haha both the same) with citrines, and 81% with vit stones. The extra resists mean you'd be taking 5% less damage.. and the citrines give roughly 3.9% more hp.. so at least in this case, with this gear at full buffs.. vit stones would give more survivability than citrine gems. I haven't done the math for the unbuffed stats, but I'd guess it'd come out to the same result.

Sun_Burn - Lost City · February 2011

How do you figure 5% less damage? Wouldn't the difference of 80% with citrines and 81% with vit stones be 1% less damage taken?

MageFizban - Lost City · February 2011

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

How do you figure 5% less damage? Wouldn't the difference of 80% with citrines and 81% with vit stones be 1% less damage taken?

Because with 80% reduction you'd be taking 20% of the damage. With 81% reduction, you'd be taking 19% of the damage.

(20-19)/20*100 = 5% ijs.

Sun_Burn - Lost City · February 2011

I still dont get how its 5% more damage

if I hit someone for lets say 10,000 with 0% reduction:

with 80% reduction, I'd be taking 20% damage, which is 2,000
with 81% reduction, I'd be taking 19% damage, which is 1,900

So how would that 100HP damage difference equate to 5% less damage with vit stones?

(20-19)/20*100 = 5% <- and what does that 20 that I bolded do? You didn't explain that at all.

edit: nvm, i get it now I think.. I'm still stuck on how 100 damage difference is 1% of the original 10,000 and how it changes to 5% when comparing those 2 numbers. (I know it does now, just trying to figure out why it does) I think I'm overthinking it u~u. going to bed..

Lascial - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Okay thanks everyone for the advice. I'm thinking about going with 40-45 Defense levels, a even 100 attack levels(5 extra) and the rest Hp. As for whether I choose Vitality stones, or Citrines, I'm not sure. I'll have to think on it. If I don't shard for Physical defense at all, then I may go with Vitality stones, but not sure. Stones of the Savant/Primeval stones, are more expensive at the moment though, so I'll just have to wait and see. Thanks for the advice.

And it totally sucks to hear the assassin stun last even longer then I thought. 5 Is more then enough, 7 is just stupid -_-

Thanks for the help so far though.

Galox - Heavens Tear · February 2011

Hehe, It's good you'd pick me up on things Adroit, only one way I can learn

Just thinking..

VIT Stones better vs. Aps, Citrines better vs. Non-Aps?

If you think of it like this, each time a person attacks you, your defence will reduce the damage you take..So..could you say defences.."stack"?

Erm, Example, Say you take 5% less damage using VIT Stones. Let's say the attacker gets in 5 hits before you Seal/Shrink/Whatever with 5.0. So using VIT stones over that period would result in..25% less damage taken from the 5.0, over using Citrine Shards instead?

Let's say a BM hits you for..1k damage with a Skill on the VIT Stone Build..If you were on a Citrine Build, wouldn't the Extra 500~ HP Essentially Halve the damage taken? (I mean, as a % of HP Lost..)

Just seems to me that a VIT Stone Build would give better defences vs. an APS Opponent, and Citrine vs. Non-APS Opponent (APS as in..3.33+?)

Brah, Probably confused Myself and everyone else now..

~Galox

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur · February 2011

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

I still dont get how its 5% more damage

I'm still stuck on how 100 damage difference is 1% of the original 10,000 and how it changes to 5% when comparing those 2 numbers.

It doesn't. I think you and adroit were talking 2 different things.

You are talking 1% difference on the original 10,000, he is talking on the margin reducing the remaining damage you actually take (after initial reduction) by an additional 5%. Which is why percentage-wise, its correct I suppose, but as you saw certainly leads one to believe that the benefit is more than it really is.

Unless someone is saying that his calculation of an additional 100 damage saved with vit stones is incorrect?

Assuming not, and given that vit stones always seem to sell 20%-30% higher, I always think it better to shard citrines and put that extra coin into refining pdef ornaments.

However, if your budget is unlimited, you probably can't go wrong with vit stones either.

Hp/Def to attack/defense levels

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