End game sins, what shards should they use?

Sakubatou - Sanctuary · February 2011

I've seen this thread before, but mostly for lower levels or never recieving a good definitive answer.

You have your Rank 8+ and Nirvana armor, all your aps gear, your lunar cape, your Barrier Thorn, even your helm is Nirvana'd to G15. Most of your gear is at least +7. You are one sexy beast of a Sin. Now, with all that money you've accumulated from soloing.... well, everything, how are you gonna shard your gear?

Citrines - 115 hp would be nice, and help with the peak dmg hits.

Vitality Stones - +10 vit at 13 hp a vit seems like a better deal. 130 hp per stone would prevent 1 or 2 hit kills. The pdef and mdef increase isn't really noticable but enough stones might just tip you into 1% more damage reduction. More hp means more to replace when DDing, though.

Defense Levels - Your paint heals hp, but it'd be better to not lose as much hp in the first place. That way as your paint heals back what was lost easier. Doesn't help your overall hp at all though.

Garnets - 125 pdef per gem before buffs could knock off a few % of physical damage. And it reduces before attack levels. You are a melee class, and as a LA you have better mdef than most melee, but weaker pdef. Doesn't help your overall hp any, or help against casters, but it can make a huge difference against melee mobs and players which is what you fight a majority of the time. Don't you have evasion for physical attacks though?

Saphires - Rank 8 and 9 casters are the 1 shot kings, nowadays. If I can survive to get close enough I can kill them, maybe +100 mdef would reduce magic damage enough for me to get in close?

Attack Levels - Bloodpaint is what keeps you alive, and that's fed by damage. More damage output equals more heals and more survivability. It doesn't increase hp, it doesn't prevent 1 or 2 hits, but isn't that why there's G15/Rank 8 armor? Quicker kills mean you'd take less damage in the first place, and more attack levels mean huge chunks of heals in between each hit you take.

Ambers - .... Lol.

Alright. There's how I see it playing out. Discuss please, considering pve, tw, and pvp. I'm curious to see the take on this subject.
Saphires - mdef

VyperionV - Lost City · February 2011

Each person has it's own fighting style but if you ask me it's useless to add defensive stones to DD class. Especially to sin, who has blood paint.
Since sin already has a lot of crit and primaveral stones only add 1% and not 2% as they should, i consider that crit stones in wep are useless.
If sin goes vs robe classes then pure +1 atk level stones in all equips would be nice. Also garnet stones for patk are a good option.
But if i was to build a sin that kills anything instantly i would choose element stones into my wep because sin only has 1 element atk (water) from lvl 79 skill. Fire damage stones are my favourite because i preffer using pills that give me wood damage. This way i can deal huge damage using 3 elements along with physical atk.
Bm is the same since it has element atk too (fire).

_Skai_ - Raging Tide · February 2011

Do the elemental attack shards (like ruby, etc) have that much of an impact on damage? Is the damage difference between garnets in weapons and elemental damage shards in weapons noticeable?

Or are they about the same? (This sounds like something fun to experiment with)

Traz - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Generally 16 Vit Stones and 8 Jades (4 jades in helm/leggings). I personally went with 24 Vit Stones. The other flip is to get dups and have a set that's equally refined but has Tigers in them for attack levels (for events etc when HP or def isn't really needed).

Have any other questions ask away.

Korrok - Harshlands · February 2011

Survivability? Refines for HP, def level for shards.

Damage? Refines for HP, atk level for shards.

Mix in HP if you reaaallly need to, but since this sin is intended to be a farming char, I'll likely go with atk levels

VyperionV - Lost City · February 2011

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Do the elemental attack shards (like ruby, etc) have that much of an impact on damage? Is the damage difference between garnets in weapons and elemental damage shards in weapons noticeable?

Or are they about the same? (This sounds like something fun to experiment with)

It deals 200 dmg per shard if it is max grade from what i remember. However together with 5 aps and water dmg from buff or from lvl 79 skill and combined with element dmg pots, the element damage will **** bm in just a few seconds because bms are a class that swiches def. They increase one while decreasing the other. If you hit with both in the same time...bms are dead.

If you use 2 element stones in ur daggers it's not much but if you increase your atk level using jones blessing+tiger stones in the rest of equips then you 100% deal huge dmg with your wep.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · February 2011

VyperionV - Lost City wrote: »

It deals 200 dmg per shard if it is max grade from what i remember. However together with 5 aps and water dmg from buff or from lvl 79 skill and combined with element dmg pots, the element damage will **** bm in just a few seconds because bms are a class that swiches def. They increase one while decreasing the other. If you hit with both in the same time...bms are dead.
If you use 2 element stones in ur daggers it's not much but if you increase your atk level using jones blessing+tiger stones in the rest of equips then you 100% deal huge dmg with your wep.

Um, no.

Elemental shards don't get buffed by skills.

So basically they're ****. An Immaculate Garnet adds 32 physical attack, but consider Dagger Devotion at +60% and Dexterity at, say 400 for a total of +326%. So now your Immaculate Garnet is up to +136 damage. G11 Elemental shards add +150 damage. Now consider the cost difference between an Immaculate Garnet and a G11 elemental shard. If you were to put up a fair comparison, the Garnet would get +319. 319 / 150 = ~2.13.

So in the end, Garnets are still the best choice.

VyperionV - Lost City · February 2011

It worked very well for me. They don't get buffed by skills so much is true but it's different type of atk used in the same time as physical one. That means any bm who swiches defense mode to phys resist recives 200 dmg from grade 12 stones. 2 sockets on wep= 400 dmg.
5 interval= 50 atks in 10 sec.
400 dmg x 50 hits = 20 000 dmg in 10 sec.
Considering that damage is reduced in pvp by 75% if i recall correctly and that chars have armor with element resist as well, that dmg will not be rly 20 000 in 10 sec but stil...there will be some dmg. At this you add the Phys dmg too.
However everybody has the right to have an opinion.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · February 2011

VyperionV - Lost City wrote: »

It worked very well for me. They don't get buffed by skills so much is true but it's different type of atk used in the same time as physical one. That means any bm who swiches defense mode to phys resist recives 200 dmg from grade 12 stones. 2 sockets on wep= 400 dmg.
5 interval= 50 atks in 10 sec.
400 dmg x 50 hits = 20 000 dmg in 10 sec.
Considering that damage is reduced in pvp by 75% if i recall correctly and that chars have armor with element resist as well, that dmg will not be rly 20 000 in 10 sec but stil...there will be some dmg. At this you add the Phys dmg too.
However everybody has the right to have an opinion.

The elemental damage is insignificant. You might get 400 damage from it after all, but you already have what, 10,000 physical damage? That's a 1:25 ratio, man. And believe me, physical marrow won't give them 25 times the Phys def.

Defenses have horrible diminishing returns, so the marrow aren't actually that effective when you already have a lot of defenses. And it sure as hell isn't going to give him more than twice the defense he had before. And with that, the Garnets are better because if you keep the same grade, you get more than twice the damage from the Garnets.

AuroraLucia - Archosaur · February 2011

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Saphires - Rank 8 and 9 casters are the 1 shot kings, nowadays. If I can survive to get close enough I can kill them, maybe +100 mdef would reduce magic damage enough for me to get in close?

If you are an end-game Assassin, and you are not able to hit a Wizard before they hit you, you have just failed. The only way they should be able to see you is if they use a detection pot and are at least on level with you, and even then they aren't going to be spamming them every 30 seconds so they can see a possible Assassin coming.

Unless you are out in the world in PK mode without your stealth on, you should not be seen at all.

On topic though, HP is the way to go. Resistances get less effective the higher the numbers get, so they aren't really worth it at end-game.

Finrah - Sanctuary · February 2011

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've seen this thread before, but mostly for lower levels or never recieving a good definitive answer.

You have your Rank 8+ and Nirvana armor, all your aps gear, your lunar cape, your Barrier Thorn, even your helm is Nirvana'd to G15. Most of your gear is at least +7. You are one sexy beast of a Sin. Now, with all that money you've accumulated from soloing.... well, everything, how are you gonna shard your gear?

Citrines - 115 hp would be nice, and help with the peak dmg hits.

Vitality Stones - +10 vit at 13 hp a vit seems like a better deal. 130 hp per stone would prevent 1 or 2 hit kills. The pdef and mdef increase isn't really noticable but enough stones might just tip you into 1% more damage reduction. More hp means more to replace when DDing, though.

Defense Levels - Your paint heals hp, but it'd be better to not lose as much hp in the first place. That way as your paint heals back what was lost easier. Doesn't help your overall hp at all though.

Garnets - 125 pdef per gem before buffs could knock off a few % of physical damage. And it reduces before attack levels. You are a melee class, and as a LA you have better mdef than most melee, but weaker pdef. Doesn't help your overall hp any, or help against casters, but it can make a huge difference against melee mobs and players which is what you fight a majority of the time. Don't you have evasion for physical attacks though?

Saphires - Rank 8 and 9 casters are the 1 shot kings, nowadays. If I can survive to get close enough I can kill them, maybe +100 mdef would reduce magic damage enough for me to get in close?

Attack Levels - Bloodpaint is what keeps you alive, and that's fed by damage. More damage output equals more heals and more survivability. It doesn't increase hp, it doesn't prevent 1 or 2 hits, but isn't that why there's G15/Rank 8 armor? Quicker kills mean you'd take less damage in the first place, and more attack levels mean huge chunks of heals in between each hit you take.

Ambers - .... Lol.

Alright. There's how I see it playing out. Discuss please, considering pve, tw, and pvp. I'm curious to see the take on this subject.
Saphires - mdef

I like your point with the attack garnet ones... But I hate seeing myself with low HP b:chuckle

At the moment since I'm so broke thanks to the refining orbs; I've imbued Immaculate citrine shards to every piece of my armor INCLUDING my daggers; I'd go for primeval stones, BUT... apparently they are 30-40 mils each now. So... **** them! b:angry

I'd rather go for citrine gems....b:sad

Depending on my HP by then... I probably put Diamond Tigers on daggers? Havn't thought up to there yet since I need to farm Raptures for Nirvana Daggers b:chuckle good thought though.

Teny - Heavens Tear · February 2011

DoTs only, there's no other option for you if you want damage.

I do know of two sins who haven't gone this route though.

One of which has nothing but sapphire/garnet/citrine gems in his gear, and he PKs a lot, that might be something to consider if you plan on PK'ing quite often.

THe other sin is all vit stones, and he has quite a few +10 pieces of gear too, leading to almost 11k hp unbuffed as a pure dex sin.

My personally? All DoTs, although I was unlucky with my nirvana helm, it's only 3 sockets so 1% less damage

Firefeng - Dreamweaver · February 2011

If you're really rich, you can have two sets of gear, one with DoTs, the other with Vit stones/etc.

I'm not really rich. I'm actually wondering how I'm gonna afford ~20 DoTs.

VyperionV - Lost City · February 2011

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The elemental damage is insignificant. You might get 400 damage from it after all, but you already have what, 10,000 physical damage? That's a 1:25 ratio, man. And believe me, physical marrow won't give them 25 times the Phys def.

Defenses have horrible diminishing returns, so the marrow aren't actually that effective when you already have a lot of defenses. And it sure as hell isn't going to give him more than twice the defense he had before. And with that, the Garnets are better because if you keep the same grade, you get more than twice the damage from the Garnets.

Perhaps you are right. I didn;t experiment here. I did on private server where defenses are exactly like here but all items are +12 and 4s with 20 vit stones in them. The 400 dmg from element stones is the same. When BM swiched to pdef sutra.. his mdef reduced drastically so i was able to down him very fast using fist (both of us had 5 aps on fist).
So if there this thing worked there i assume that here, where ppl have lower def and HP, it will work even better, especially that bm needs to shield himself vs sin using pdef sutra. That makes his mdef go low badly so that 400 will do dmg. On t he other hand...using +1 atk level stones is better since pills that give element dmg can be used anytime.

Aalpeculea - Sanctuary · February 2011

24 vit stones give more than 1% more damage reduction.

this is my current build, both set are +10 refine, and the vit stone set get like 4% more damage reduction at lvl103.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=00e8dfc8e3a0f954

vs

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f00eee32ec12df64

End game sins, what shards should they use?

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