Team working for your Cleric

Maybe you play the wrong class? Its your Job in a party to keep up with the squad and deliver heals and buffs when necessary. And when you run out of mana your obviously not prepared. Other Jobs have also Mana Costs for their Skills and they use them more frequently as you do. Just because they dont have that big mana pool it dosnt mean they have to pot like mad to be a decent dd. They have also a huge ammount of Repair Costs wich you dont have as you dont tank mobs mostly.

If you help out on a Bh51 and someone want you to pay for wine just leave the squad
If you on an Bh you actually need make your job properly you have your share of costs to carry like everyone else. A cleric who run out of mana and seriously asking all few minutes for a meditate break would land on my blacklist forever. For random people asking for heal/buffs outside a party see my signature ,)

No offence

I have to go with Ted/Mano on this one sorry. It sounds like you just might not be cut out to play a cleric. Yes, it is a demanding job and pot costs/skill costs are expensive. You are expected to move with the pace of the squad and put up BB and hold it when asked. You are expected to use the hour long buffs and carry enough potions to not run out. You are expected to carry res scrolls on your person and be ready at a moments notice when someone screws up.

Wines benefit the whole squad, so it makes sense to be a shared expense. If you do not want to pitch in for wine, do not wine the BH or don't go on that bh! Both 51 and 59 are easily done without wine by running around select mobs or fighting your way through. Yes, it takes longer, but you save yourself an expense.

It only turns to bribing/gifting when you're desperate to get that person in your squad. A squad won't offer a barb repairs or free wine unless they absolutely have reached the end of the rope and can't get anyone without bribery. You don't want to pay for wine, well, other people don't want to pay for your pots. Everyone is inherently selfish.

At lower levels I would never be charmed because I wasted it so quickly it was an unnecessary expense. I would buy 100 mp and 50 hp pots a day and those would last me about 4 hours of heavy questing/grinding. I would save my pots for when I was in squads and meditate instead of potting when I was soloing. I would also go collect the herbs I needed from around level 70-96 mobs when I was low 6x-high 7x. I probably picked damn flowers for full days when I *should* have been out questing.


Did I ever get a thank you from anyone outside my faction? Hell no!
No stranger in a random squad knew how much work I put into keeping their butt alive during runs. They never noticed when I managed my mp well or kept up with the tank or prevented their death when they ran into a wayward mob. In fact most times if I healed them from the brink of swift death they'd complain that I wasn't paying attention and how dare I let them almost die! Not "Wow you saved my life, thanks!" I could count the number of honest to god declarations of gratitude I've received on one hand.

I was, however, re payed in getting invited back. There are tons of clerics on the server. People find the ones that are willing to do their job/keep up with the squad with minimal whining and hold onto them for dear life. If you show up and play nice with your squad with minimal problems they just might friend you and squad with you again in the future. I've had people kick other clerics from squads just to bring me in because that other cleric was being a pain in the butt or couldn't do their job. I have had in game friends blatantly berate bad clerics and when I ask what they did wrong they'd say "They weren't you." Not a "thank you for being a good cleric" but a huge ego boost once in a while. b:cute

I was able to run TT every single night, always get in a bh, and walk onto FC squads because my name got around. A good reputation is a great reward for the work you put into playing your cleric effectively. If your name gets out there that you take care of your squads it can be a bigger pay off in the end than a free platinum charm.

"Team working for your Cleric" - to me, that sounds like a cleric is trying to lord over the squad and have 5 little minions doing their bidding. :S

You are well within your rights to ask a squad to slow down a bit so you can keep up, although there are ways of making yourself faster (Holy Path, speed pots, +m/s alt gear, archer buff if you have an archer in squad). If someone runs ahead and dies, it's their fault. But at the same time, you can't expect the squad to completely revolve around you.

Every class has expenses, so asking for special treatment reflects poorly on you and will hurt you in the long run. The _only_ time that clerics/barbs get exempt from wine fees or compensated for their costs is when the squad is desperate, so if that's your prerequisite, expect to take a longer time finding squads and even be put on some peoples' black list.

Per your comment on the reflect buff - most venos are reluctant to bramble clerics because we have to put up with a fair bit of raging from many who don't like it.

And please watch what you say. FatherTed is far from selfish and gave you a much nicer and constructive post than you could have gotten.

Wow. Um... let's see...

Ubnext - Sanctuary wrote: »

you practically have to knock someone down and beg them for a buff like increased HP or Reflect.

but a Cleric is expected to just toss you a buff anytime anywhere.

No. No one expects to get buffed without asking for it first. This applies to all classes, all buffs. The reason for this is because a lot of buffs are situational. There's always a possible reason for someone to not want a buff, even if it's simply because they want the added difficulty of not having them. There are other reasons, too, such as that most venos are taught by clerics themselves not to bramble clerics. It's actually really funny you mentioned reflect, as it shows how little you know about what the general player thinks.

Heck I am in C of F as a cat shop selling Dice tickets that took me forever to make from chip packs., and an eternity to roll packs into chips, and half an eternity to roll chips into dice at the merchant.
so am I QQing nope. I am beaching like a ****!
cause some one is expecting me to miss three customers and close my shop, so he can get a buff and heal.

Really? Just pretend you're afk. Most people in catshops are. He was just shooting in the dark, hoping that a) you weren't afk and b) you were actually a nice person. Not his fault if you're so uptight you can't afford to spend about fifteen seconds otherwise spent doing nothing in a catshop to improve his day a tiny bit.

I heal, buff and just drain mana so quick its pathetic, but have to solo most my quests.

Waa, I have to solo stuff, waaa! Get over it. So does everyone else. Actually, no. That's a lie. You can normally squad with someone if they're doing the same quest, but I'm starting to see why they might not squad with you.

I have to buy pots and charms for mp, and all the while farm and farm for a deal of something I can sell to keep me above water.

Every class has expenses, except maybe venos if they're not saving for herc/nix, and even then they have to either buy a tome or food for pet. Granted it's not as much, but no one wants to hear about a fist bm whining about weapon repairs, and they don't want to hear complaints about a cleric's mp usage. It's part of the job.

then someone has the Gall to ask me to pitch in for wine?
what is going through your mind man?
half of the time I end up in a group, I have maybe one BH out of three everyone else has, and you want me to buy wine?
and other times I just get in a group to help out. Why should I buy wine for a BH51 when I only need a BH59.

Maybe one bh of the three? Are you implying you join squads at no quest benefit to you, completely charitably, and then complain about the costs? Next time just look for a zimo squad if you don't need the bh51. And if someone asked me to chip in for bh51 wine, I'd lol at them and tell them to do it without the wine or without me, granted they didn't say anything about wine before I joined squad. If they did, I would never have asked for an invite in the first place.

I have to bring 50+ pots of large mana and 25+ pots of large health, just incase someone doesn't know how to hold aggro or someone else doesn't know how to let the tank tank!

This is a legitimate complaint. The cleric is unfairly charged for the mistakes of others in the squad. However, I repeat myself: you signed up for this, it's part of the job.

half of the seals I had to get, (that I never use) to get another upper lvl seal I want really use cost so much coin and spirit I am at a loss to what to do next.

"I have to pay for stuff I want but don't need! So unfair!" Listen to yourself, ugh.

BB costs about 12 pots to use on Rankar or Fushma to go from first pull to its death.
and while I am trying to turn the BB off everyone else is grabbing the loot. so I get 27 coin and an elemntal essence. which does me no good cause I am not dragon questing. and the barb gets the *** purple item with 3 sockets. the sin gets the mystery potion I could use, the Psy gets exactly what she can use a sphere, and the wiz gets a white 2 star item.

happens all day long.
but when I jump in there and finally get to grab loot it all gets randomly displace to everyone else.

...

You realize you grabbing stuff doesn't change who gets it unless it's set to free drops, right? It's random. Heck, they're saving time by grabbing it while you're getting out of BB. Now you're resorting to complaining about bad luck.

(And about those item examples... An element essence normally sells for 4x its value because of the non-DQ quests involving them, which'll cover most of your BB pot cost. Barbs have repair bills to take care of, and need good gear to tank properly if he's not selling the 3*. Sins use pots too. The psy probably won't use some garbage one star weapon drop from a boss 7-17 levels lower from them. And finally, a mob dropped a 2* item? That's some luck you got, to be complaining about anyway.)

no I am still not QQing. its expected **** anyway.

Coulda fooled me.

but then while I am either meditating (mana regen) or (why isn't there class that can cast a healing spell of mana or MP recov to the cleric?)

Demon IH, learn your class lol
Before you say anything, the reason it doesn't exist until then is because it's not needed.

down a chewy orb to replace the mana at 6000 over 30 seconds. meanwhile the barb runs off and gets killed and it my fault for not having a 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 coin Plat MP Charm on me.
or worse they decide to run in two different directions.

If you have both regular and apoth pots, you shouldn't be running out of mana. And if you don't have the items to keep your mana up, stop doing bhs and get some.

Splitting up is normally done in a bh51 before/after Fush to get that one guard, which most people can solo. If the barb goes the other way to clear the way to Rank, follow him. If you're following people who don't need you instead of the ones that do, it's your fault. If they die against the guard, it's really their fault and no one will be angry at you.

(BTW how come catshops buy Plat Guardian Charms for value like 2-3M and sell for 3-4M but MP charms are bought for only 1 M and sold for the same as a plat HP charm?) think about this next time your running through town and ask a cleric for a buff, or in an instance and demand the one hour buff.

I'm not gonna bother with this one. Economics are probably beyond you.

this stuff isn't cheap because u don't have the patience to wait for your cleric. but you have the patience to wait two hours for your buddy the sin to go get his BH 1 turned in to get BH II, but he gets D/C ed along the way!

You're wrong. I don't have the patience for unstacked people who continually dc. My last BH51 turned into a 4 man squad by the time we got to wyv because of this. But people will always wait for a cleric that's worth it. Maybe the last bit of the sentence is the difference between you and me.

you have the patience to wait for the Veno to mana up or feed their pet.

I actually lol'd at this one. Venos running out of mana? Taking time to feed their pets? Either you have experience with the worst venos imaginable or, more likely, you are taking completely unfounded, inexperienced shots in the dark at other classes.

have patience for the cleric, or start providing the cleric with a charm.

People are already aware of this ultimatum, which is why they have patience for clerics. Maybe the reason they don't have patience with you is because you aren't cleric enough.

I am not paying for wine anymore, and I am not paying for pots. if I run out of mana cause u run to fast from mob to mob, then its your fault you died not mine!

The wine is understandable, but the rest...


LOOOOOOOL

Good luck with that. I feel bad with anyone who squads with you.

instead of wine, the squad ought to pitch in for a MP charm for the cleric.
or start donating coin so we clerics can afford it.
that way BB could run forever and you could all split up five different ways and bring Rankar, Fushma and Wyvrn back to the front door, and we do it all at once. that would save you a lot more time.

That you operate through daily life with a mind like that, I pity.

Ubnext - Sanctuary wrote: »

your wrong...because:

you don't realize when holy path is in cool down I actually run slower than when I am not equipped with a genie at all. but when the cooldown expires (without) using the holy path again I speed up.
some kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't bug against clerics.
should have been fixed 2 years ago.

Sorry for more after that long post, but I just noticed this. What the heck? I've never heard this one before. Holy Path doesn't even have a cooldown, lol. The only thing I can think of to explain this is if it overwrites an archer speed buff. Again, you really need to learn the game better before 'beaching' about it.

I'd be interested to hear the OP's thoughts on paying close to 20m for level 11 res.

sad thing is that if i too started the game just a few months ago, id probably have the same rant =S the gap between the 'expectations' and 'reality' have spaced out too much due to either old players playing on their newbie alts or new cash shop players.

i remember when bronze/silver charms were normal and gold charms were a full on luxury

< selfish, commanding, semi-accommodating b:chuckle

kriviox wrote: »

b:chuckle Oh yes, that would be interesting. Though, doing RBs you can get a good 2-3m so 10 or so RBs and it's paid off. However, clerics job for that is to be in BB so.. haha.

Of course, you could be at the eye with mana auras. I know some people who log a friends cleric on one computer, setup bb, and then afk for entire Delta runs. No repair bill or mana pots, no player even, lol.

Manostra - Harshlands wrote: »

Maybe you play the wrong class?

^^ This^^ Clerics avoid repair costs, and as for chills have some of the cheapest costs to learn their skills. Yes, even sage or demon skills are reasonably cheap compared to other classes. They just have heavier skill costs early on, and basic mp food costs. Remember, you have 4 times the mp pool, so them using 1/4 the skills means they need to pot as much as you.

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My god the audacity of some people. The OP is out of his/her mind... b:shutup

^^and this^^ Here is another QQ thread the OP might enjoy. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=984312

Ok, first, you don't want to be brambled. If you are attacked while brambled it makes it harder for DDers to pull aggro back off you. Second, if they don't have aggro don't heal. You really should need hp pots (psst, you can heal yourself.)

As you get higher levels BHs go faster and faster. No one meditates, everyone HPs and sprints everywhere, people go in different directions to take out different mobs to save time.

Are you a pure magic build? This will help you have a larger mp pool and quicker regens. If you are having problems with mp regen attack less and avoid being put into combat mode, this will keep your regen rate at normal. When in combat mode its cut down to 1/4 regen.

Buffing people means they take less damage. Less damage = less healing required = you saving on mp. DDers make your runs faster. The faster a boss dies the less you have to heal. Fast squads will save you mp costs. Also, getting a run done 15 minutes faster when people aren't sitting around meditating means you can go grind 100k to pay for mp costs and make a fair amount of coin.

Clerics are always useful. Having as many options for squads as clerics do means they can go on instance runs all day and make plenty of coins. They are a decently profitable class. You also seemed under the impression being in bb while people picked up drops gives you less drops? You get the same random odds as everyone else unless the squad is set to free distribution.

Clandore - Lost City wrote: »

Whoever mentioned demon IH - it costs 30mil on LC last time I checked. How many event pots can you buy with 30mil?

That was just a response to the OP asking why there weren't any skills that could heal a cleric's mana. I followed it by stating it isn't necessary, just pointing out that it does exist. It's definitely not a solution to the OP's mana problem, you're right.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Clerics avoid repair costs, and as for chills have some of the cheapest costs to learn their skills. Yes, even sage or demon skills are reasonably cheap compared to other classes. They just have heavier skill costs early on, and basic mp food costs. Remember, you have 4 times the mp pool, so them using 1/4 the skills means they need to pot as much as you.

thats true only if u make a cleric to be your heal slave, or you dont care as much for the character cause its not your main.
for a cleric main person its probably one of the more expensive classes

its pretty much like me saying BMs are the most brainless cheapest class you can play because of my alts experience and vouching for it on the BM forums. Not much credibility from a character i classify as one of my many many alts as high as it may be.



and no its not possible to afk for an ENTIRE delta run because of the different waves. Whoever is saying that is leaving out info and your believing it literally

@OP-
Been there, done that.

Im in the same level range as you and am feeling much of the same pain. However, I remeber that much of this stuff I agreed to when I rolled a cleric.

I did want to make one suggestion to you regarding BH bosses. In vain I have lectured, chastised, riducled and threatened in an attempt to get people to stack. There is no rule in this game that says you have to stack. But it is unreasonable to go to your BH to run yesterday's bosses. Do insist upon today's bosses.

When I think of some of the economic and respect issues that clerics have, I consider how things will change when my level becomes useful to my guild. I am so looking forward to the days when I dont have to run with randoms anymore.

You sound like a poor cleric. This game has very little use for one. This is reality.

Why are you playing a cleric?

Honestly, being a Cleric is not nearly as hard as you are making it out to be. It is quite simple, on normal mobs you just toss IH on anyone who takes any damage, and throw Wellspring on anyone who reaches about half HP. If you have a Barb, there is no reason anyone but the Barb should get healed. If someone takes aggro from the Barb, let them take care of themselves. I played an Assassin already in BH51 and 59, and the mobs are easy for an Assassin who has half a clue of what to do. If the Assassin can survive against two mobs on his own, I'm certain you don't need to worry about a Blademaster or extra Barb.

If your MP is getting below 50% anyways, you should already be throwing a pot up. If you are having trouble getting money, spam some TT 1-1 and 1-2's. You get second pick, so you can just sell the mat for money. If you are smart about how you do it, your costs are very little. For example, use Focus Powders when you are just spamming IH, and throw up your double spark whenever you can to recover MP.

In TT at your level, the only boss you need a charm for possibly is Soulbanisher, simply because he takes so long to kill and it's a long time to keep BB up. Drummer goes down pretty quick and holding BB is easy on him, even with just level 60 pots.

I've gone through those levels, I know the troubles you face as a Cleric. By far though, Cleric is the cheapest class I have played. The only thing that is expensive about it is skills, and even those are cheap as the ones you really need at your level you get so early on they are maxed early.

You are saying to have the squad let you meditate rather than use pots? They don't get a meditation for their repair costs. You have repairs, but they are minor compared to the melee classes, especially whoever tanks. As far as pots go, I've always gotten enough DQ drops in BH's to cover my pot costs. If it didn't completely cover it, the TT run I did or would plan to do covered them.

Yes, you should have to pay the wine fee as well. If you do a wined BH, you benefit from it the same as everyone else. If you don't want to pay for a wine fee, either do the BH without wines, or don't do it at all.

If you are putting up BB on Fushma, then obviously you haven't been visiting these forums enough. BB is not used for its healing. It is used for the damage reduction. Level 10 IH recovers 714 HP + 30% of base magic attack over 15 seconds, which can be stacked, while BB recovers 300 HP + 20% base magic attack every 5 seconds with the 50% damage reduction. Yeah, it's a squad heal, but Fush does not have an AoE.

On Rankar, a mildly geared Assassin can still take his AoE so long as he/she can get an IH when damage is taken, and that doesn't require much effort, so you don't need to BB at all on Rank. Wyvern, I can understand it, but there is still no need. If an Assassin can't take the hits from Wyvern (and the same goes with Rank as well), he/she should take out a bow and DD that way, since on them their AoE damage is lessened at range. Any Blademaster or Barb should be more than able to handle those two bosses' AoE's with occasional heals.

So, you are just going into overkill with your healing and not thinking about mana cost. Here is the thing to remember, it is your MP cost. If someone says to put up BB, unless it is someone who has low HP and can't tank that boss without the damage reduction, don't put it up. If the Barb you are with can't tank it without BB anyways, get a new Barb.

I have never needed to use an MP charm to keep BB up, so any excuse you give saying you had to, I call BS on. The only time you have to is if you are doing PQ zhen, because I will admit, you can't hold up BB for one hour with just pots below 75. If you don't have one in TT 1-2 and the squad can't kill Soulbanisher fast enough, you simply tell them you are skipping that boss, most people do anyways because few ever need his mat.

So, I'm sorry you are having such a hard time playing Cleric, but you are just acting way too selfish. Cleric is a very selfless class, and if you don't want to be the giver in the squad, you should go with another class.

The only thing I can agree with you on in your post is just random requests for buffs. I can understand you not giving them, but for your squad, you should. After all, 1 hour buffs are more cost effective than single buffs. Just give a squad buff, pot to save your charm if you have one, give the next one, repeat.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

^^ This^^ Clerics avoid repair costs, and as for chills have some of the cheapest costs to learn their skills. Yes, even sage or demon skills are reasonably cheap compared to other classes. They just have heavier skill costs early on, and basic mp food costs. Remember, you have 4 times the mp pool, so them using 1/4 the skills means they need to pot as much as you.

A couple of things:
1. clerics do have repair costs, just not as high as melee classes because we wear robes and mostly heal, but they go up when they get hit a lot as DD's or as healer.

2. the costs to learn skills are a bit lower compared to other classes, which is true. However, our skills are kinda mandatory, unless ofcourse you don't mind not having BB on the cleric at lvl 60 and are satisfied with a lower level res.
(A skill wich they should abolish from the game i.m.o. and preferably with decrease in level above lvl 91 when the exp loss from dieing means your exp drops below 0%, but that's another topic altogether.)
Nobody cares if you got all your 4 tree skills at the level you can acquire them as long as you can do your job with the skills you got. You level one or 2 trees around the OP's level just like the clerics do. The other trees are what gives you an advantage at higher levels. This is where it starts to suck less to be a BM . At higher levels you will also be able to grind more money for your skills.

3. It's not just MP costs on skills that hurt, but the fact that everything you do costs mana and a lot of it. This includes grinding for money and they do have a repair bill when fighting. They can choose to meditate for a very long time, make pots from herbs ( which they have to collect first), or invest in mana pots. In most cases all three. Where as a BM only uses mana to spam a skill, he doesn't really need it to grind and can meditate the amount of mana he needs in a short amount of time. The BM's repair cost remains the same. In all, a BM can grind about twice as much cash in the same time as a cleric can with lower risks to himself, which continues up to the 90+ when clerics AOE grind. Even then it's costly to do and in most cases BM's still make more cash then a AOE grinding cleric (except maybe for the one completely tricked out cleric with special grinding gear with the sole purpose of grinding spiders).
Mana cost is not a one time expense, but is continiously present, which makes it a burden when you decide to play a cleric as your main. These clerics don't level fast ( because they actually do all their quests and runs for gear, gather mats etc. on this char) and they have a high expense.

4. The larger mana pool for 1 skill tree does not equally compare to a smaller MP pool for 4 skiltrees at the OP's level, for all the reasons mentioned above: you don't usually need 4 skilltrees at that level, you are not required to continiously spam skills as a BM with high cost. Not even at lvl 100, you probably mostly spark and autoattack with some skills in between. 1 pots for you + MP regen buff is enough to do your job. You might burn just as fast through your MP pool as the cleric, but if the clerics MP pool is indeed 4 times higher, then so is his cost.

5. You most likely won't die because you ran out of mana, but the cleric that keeps you alive could very well die when mana runs out.

Why do I think we shouldn't be so harsh on the OP? :
First of all to be a helpful community, but there are more reason. The cost issue is a frustration of all clerics who play it as their main and don't play any other chars. The easiest way to make money on your cleric besides playing merchant is to play an ALT. A veno would do well. Also less frustrating, since you don't die often and also don't see your hard earned money evaporate into all the expenses you make or in the time you lose. Ofcourse in this case the same thing applies as for a cleric played as an alt, you only use it for a certain purpose and don't play it to the fullest of it's abilities or spend the time to get the feeling for the char and know all it's limits.
Telling people a class isn't ment for them is only valid if the players themselves feel it isn't ment for them. The period around OP's level used to be much much harder before bh's and all kinds of other things to make you level as a cleric and made lots of people decide not to go on as a cleric. Especially if you try to play it without cash shopping to much it can still be hard to do. Cheap mana pots seems to reach it's end soon if token prices keep rising.
The trouble with the OP only seems to be a lack of priority, mostly for the OP,causing a lot of frustration.

@ the OP:
The message is to "take care of #1", meaning : take care of yourself first. If it's not in your interest and you are not in a charitible mood, learn to say no.
Don't let other people make you feel guilty for playing the game the way they do. You don't have to be the saintly mother goose willing to sacrifice yourself always for everything and everyone, it's nice if you are, but not required. You are only required to be a decent and fair player (also helps if you play nice with the other kids :P ). Any DD or tank would the same. It's your own judgement if you want to play along.
Know your role as a cleric, not what others think it should be, but what your skill and capability allow you to become. To any other class not willing to bend to that, you can always respond with the same cliches they like to give about the roles of your class...
They have certain roles too and no class seems to stick with it these days (mostly due to changes in the game), you can remind them at nauseam how to play their class if they really want to label your role, so there... :P
I think that would reduce much of your frustration and keep in mind that people who think this class requires no skill, are people who have no skill to play this class.

Hope you'll find a way to enjoy playing a cleric.
b:bye