Endgame BM = Fist Inevitably

I was in similar shoes at one point, choosing sword as my main weapon, but I came to realize the importance of bms using their many weapon paths. I currently use swords, fists, and axes (getting polearms later), and I switch to the appropriate weapon when the situation presents itself. A blademaster is not a master of a single weapon, but instead, multiple weapons. I use fists for bosses when I'm in a squad, so that I can HF to follow up someone's spark quickly and deal optimal damage. I use axes for HF, AoE situations or stunlocking normal mobs (if needed). I use swords for tactical situations: atmos strike to knockback mobs from other aggro or from players being hit, ranged attacks to steal chase aggro, or myriad sword stance to ease tanking/combine with HF.

I can understand the attachment to your favorite weapon (I personally love my sword a lot b:laugh), but you may need to make small sacrifices to support your team better. For example, some bosses in nirvana can get you killed if you do AoE spam, and some make HF ineffective, so your axe skills lose a lot of value in some areas. If you have fists on switch, you can build chi for your HF faster, you can activate your triple spark more frequently, and you are dealing more damage than your axes would.

If you take up fists, you are enabling the team to kill the bosses faster, which means the team has less repairs to make, so this will increase your profit from such runs. If you use only other weapons, killing the boss takes a bit longer due to less damage contribution. For a lot of bosses in nirvana, it is imperative to kill them fast because they have nasty special effects that would irritate most people if they had to deal with it for too long. Most of these effects have the potential to wipe out the entire squad.

To answer your basic question: No, you don't have to pick up fists only if you can reliably find a group of friends who will take you in regardless of your preferences. While I have not reached high aps (currently 2 aps), my friends still take me to nirvana to have a good time and make some quick coin. I personally don't like the look of fists on the bm class, but I picked up the weapon path because it helps both my team and me. If you're willing to sacrifice a bit of your personal play style to more effectively support your team, that would be great. If you would rather keep only your axes and play with some friends, more power to you. This is a game after all, so we are all entitled to play how we want to our heart's content. The social limits when it comes to forming squads are a different story.

Hope this helps! b:thanks

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you can't afford to get enough interval gears to get decent amount of aps sparked (even bigger problem if you are sage), you won't get squads either. 2.86 sparked starts to be decent already, 3.33 is nice and 4 aps and up means that you won't have any problems getting in Nirvana squads.

You can just stay pure axe though. Make your own squad in WC or with friends and ask for all kinds of DDs. Or then do it like the hyper noobs: pay no attention to your stuff and ask for 5 aps DDs to run it for you so you can leech off of them.hoewver chances are that runs will take long enough that you would make more coin grinding

fixed

also to be specific peope dont want fists...they want fists + interval

an option is to use min stat dex and str for your weapons and rest into vit...its pretty easy to keep over 8k hp at 100 with that and +5 refines so you can do your axe thingys and still be needed in squads

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think the point is, everyone should play how they want but if you join a squad you should bring something to it. Since BMs are DDers to fill that role we should bring fists and -int to the squad.

If you bring an axe/vit build you are hindering the squad in such a way that you slow things down almost as much as not even being there and in that case the squad would rather split the drops 5 ways then 6 and not have you with them. If you stay in the squad what it boils down to is axe/vit builds are dead weight leaching off the 5 people.

Play your own way but please don't criticize squads for not wanting to carry you or share their drops just because you play your own way.

^agree

When you are in a squad, it's a team effort, so sometimes you will need to make some changes. Neglecting to contribute to the team with the full potential of your class is like a cleric in a squad that chooses only to DD instead of heal.

If you want an -int squad, bring -int to the table. If you want a casual squad, bring your own flavor. Contribute effort that is equal to the contributions of those you wish to squad with.

Llux - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thank you for all the in depth replies everyone! Info on the nirvana bosses, the advantages to having fists, how it all contributes to the squad as a whole, etc. You've all been so helpful you don't even know. b:kiss

And don't worry, I wasn't criticizing anyone or people in squads that won't be willing to have me in the future as an Axe BM. Thus the whole reason I made this thread; because I was pretty sure I needed to change. b:chuckle I just wanted to be absolutely sure I should add the fist path next to my BM. I had already planned on starting to delve in the other paths once I got to high levels. However that was before the TB update so fists were the last thing on my mind. (Especially since they just weren't really needed, and flamed excessively.)

I'm also very relieved that you don't necessarily need to be a pure fist BM either. (Should just roll a Sin for that I would think. Haha.) I'll definitely start researching as to how I should allocate my stats and which fists I should go for once I hit 90. I wouldn't mind specific advice in that direction either.

Specifically, is it in refining fists that you get -interval? Though I have also heard some BMs use refined light armor sleeves for more -int. Either way, it all sounds expensive, so I'll need to read up a lot so I do it right the first time. b:chuckle

P.S.: Would you all suggest the one stat build that would allow you to use all weapon paths?

Ohnoes! b:shocked A little scared to see a level 88 asking those questions. But here they are:

How to get interval: Interval is a stat or "modifier" on equipment, just like + vitality or minus channeling %. The -int will say "Interval Between Hits - . 1 seconds." Minus interval shortens times between hits so you hit more often. Most -int gear is level 90+. Use the search function for a list, or there is one in post #9 of this, with post #8 explaining -int.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=766822&highlight=pure+Blademaster

The stat build that allows you to use all paths is 3 strength, 2 dex per level. To use axes you need 3 strength per level, and .5 dex. To use fists you need 1.5 strength per level and 2 dex. Thus to use both 3str/2dex. This also gives you the highest damage potential, as you are pure attack with plenty of accuracy and crits. Obviously there are no stats left over for vitality so your options are pure attack, or either use weapons below your level or calculate what stats you need with gear add ons.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

And as the thread isn't complete without a list of the costs...

- Deicides (Lunar claws) around 50m (-0.10 int)
- TT99 heavy bracers and boots 20m each (-0.25 int)
- Energetic Robe: Lunar Glade 40m (-0.3 int)
- Nirvana pants 100m (-0.35 int)
- Tome 180m-250m (-0.4 int)

That puts you to 2.86 aps base, 4 aps sparked without tome. With the tome, it would be 3.33 aps base, 5 aps sparked. Other option would be to use TT99 light armor bracers and boots with TT99 heavy armor chest and belt. You wouldn't need tome but you would need around 70m more in mats.

First build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8fcb0732cf8a60e7 200m-250m but would need 200m tome to hit 5 aps
Second one: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e2a8020678bdca31 ~300m

Prices can be a bit off for TT99 stuff.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »

im guesisng you forgot that the 99 la gives u a 0.05 set bonus of interval so how about
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6905949a0c813e07 which gives u 3.33aps based
i was referring to ur first build

learn to read

Yeah, my first build was pure HA, the second one was half LA half HA.

n3w3r1ds wrote: »

Does anybody understand what DPS is?
Rank 8 fists do 50% more damage than Deicide fists.
So in effect, i only need 2/3 of the APS of a BM with Deicide fists to do the same damage.
So really, Int is not what is important, rather DPS is.

not really sure if you are an idoit or just being stupid mate.
Rank 8 fists hold nothing in comparison to Decides. The base dmg of the fists is important yes, but try using your calculations and see end dmg results from your R8 and ANY refine vs Decides at the same refinement. UNLESS you have a base of 3.33 attack speed prespark WITHOUT Decides, the Decides are going to have way over the dps.

you ask
"Does anybody understand what DPS is?"

Do you understand it mate ?
DPS = Damage Per Second
NOT Damage Per Hit.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a2be7474701ff668 decides +10 with same gear 5.0 sparked = 61k dps pure dmg output ( no def calc )

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=27c070c92bfcb8f3 R8 +10 with same gear 3.33 sparked = 49k dps pure dmg output ( no def calc )

so please tell me again..... where is R8 50% more dmg ?
in fact, just for kicks I looked at this.
FF gold fists ( you can pick up for what ?? 12 mil abouts ? ) at +10 equal the same output of your R8 fist.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9983277a9691c8cb

n3w3r1ds wrote: »

I asked a simple question.
I don't understand Why you are being insulting?
OK, I followed your links, why have u listed ur APS as 5 for the deicide, when on ur link it has 4.35? If this is the sparked outcome. Why did you not used the sparked outcome with the rank8 gear? here you have used the unsparked outcome according to ur link.

Both of the builds he used were sparked. The first one with deicides sparks to 5 aps (PWcalc bugs) and the R8 build sparks to 3.33 aps. Press the "Skills" button and click demon spark on and off to see the difference.

Using his builds with +5 weapons (triple sparked), Deicide DPS is 45k and R8 dps is 40k. Without spark, R8 is 13.6k and Deicide is 13.4k.

n3w3r1ds wrote: »

I asked a simple question.
I don't understand Why you are being insulting?
OK, I followed your links, why have u listed ur APS as 5 for the deicide, when on ur link it has 4.35? If this is the sparked outcome. Why did you not used the sparked outcome with the rank8 gear? here you have used the unsparked outcome according to ur link.

I redid the calculations for those who are not as fortunate to have the amount of money to refine to levels of +10, I instead used a refine level of +5. As u did mention u received a better result regardless of the refine level.

Using the same armour and accessories you provided, the outcome I get and, please correct me if I am wrong is ...

NB. this is unsparked.

Rank8 11097-13055 . average damage = 12076 x 3.33 = 40213 DPS

Deicide 8283-9859 . average damage = 9071 x 4.35 = 39458 DPS

What I found is the DPS of the deicides did not pass the DPS of the rank 8 fist until a refine of +7 or greater was reach.

Now I please invite u to insult me further, by telling me I shouldn't b playing this game unless I can afford refines of +10 or greater.

But as u can see the rank8 gear is on the same level of DPS or greater then the deicide until a refine of +7 is reached and as u can also see the APS whilst using the rank gear is at a lower level.

My original comparison were done at the base level of the equipment.

My original point was that it is important to look at the greater picture, ie, the DPS and not just look at the Int which is only part of the total outcome of damage.

Thank you Taleon for the links, the calculators are very handy. I invite all to use the links Taleon provided to see the results of different builds.

Taleon responded like a jerk probably because you initially posted like a jerk. And just to clarify, there is no such thing as 4.35 aps. The pwcalc uses algorithyms and this one is broken. When it says 4.35 it means 5.0

But to your build "question", a couple things are being missed here. Deicides are G13 and start with a lower base damage average of 585.5 while Rank 8 start with a higher base dmg average of 850.5. Basically Rank 8 fists start with 145% percent higher base. G13 Lunar weapons refine at a G14 rate, but G14 rank 8 weapons refine closer to a G13.5 rate. Deicide refines better. So, it comes down to looking at how much a difference the -.1 int goes. Since 3.33 base ->5.0 sparked is a 150% increase in damage and Rank 8 has 145% base dmg higher than deicides and strength and crit adds they are about equal for DPS when unrefined. The advantage goes to Rank 8 if the user is not 3.33 base. The advantage shifts towards deicides as the weapon is refined.

You criticized people for now being "as fortunate to have the money to refine to +10" but I'll assume thats not true after they've dumped 72 gold into the game just to get 200k rep.

We can consider perma sparking too. Rank 8 would need a tome and 2 pieces TT99 LA to be 4.0 permasparked and would lose much of its dps to Deicides if it the user doesn't have every piece of -int possible except for fists.

Deicides are not endgame. They can continue to Nirvana first recast (G13 with a better base damage), and then on to G15's with better refines. Rank 8 weapons end there.


Ok, Calcs I get for sparked dps for weapons when they are refined +7 (reasonable endgame?) with 1 x G11 garnet and enough gear for 4.0 rank 8 and 5.0 deicides (-.05 difference) are

Rank 8 - 67,972 dps ( 4 hits/sec x 13,486.5 ave dph ) x 26% crit rate
Deicides - 64,340 dps ( 5 hits/sec x 10,547.5 ave dph ) x 22% crit rate

This does not factor in the change in build to add TT99 LA set bonus to reach 4 aps or the proc on Deicides "Soul infect".

I am not criticizing anybody. My question was not originally directed to anyone.
My original question was ....
Does anybody understand what DPS is?
How is that being a jerk or even insulting anyone?
Maybe my english is bad or you are reading it different to how I intended it to be understood.
Sorry for that!!!
I am looking at different options and I was looking to help as I heard the argument for Rank8 and the mentioning of DPS as a better calculation of damage, as opposed to simply looking at interval. To find a path, as it is easier for me to acquire the rep through runs than come up with the money for Deicide and +10 refines. Rep cost far less to earn, in my opinion.
Even buying rank is cheaper than +10 refine as Rank 8 will cost as mentioned US$75, that is the cost of one Ocean Orb or 2 if you are lucky to find them really cheap. I have been told you need at least 4-5 Ocean Orbs to get to a +10 refine.

I grant the fact that Deicide refine higher and can be made into Nirvana equipment later and that it is a definite advantage for someone who wants to go down that path, but there are still the poor people like me that need a cheaper option for the immediate time.

Sakubatou, thank you, you have been honest with your answer and I can see that for some the Rank8 gear is of better value and a better option and the Deicides are better for those who are going to refine high and continue playing the game through Nirvana.

As I now have the information I needed and now can make a better decision, I will try not to waste anymore of your time, as I see you guys are growing impatient of me.

Hey all
i can't seem to find a way to lvl UP!
i wana be lvl 85 so fast im so bored of Bh and CS

need help

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

How are you still sane? I spent somewhere over 2k mirages trying to +6 my helm and then gave up and rage-orb'ed.

b:surrender also got mine to +8 with refine aids and mirages