Easiest way to make TW competitive and fun
babesinn
Posts: 6 Arc User
It's nice that rewards for TW are being returned to what they used to be and the territories reset, and for a short time there will be more people participating. But let's face it, the top guilds will once again take control of the map, reaping billions of coin that they won't know what to do with because they already have Nirvana and Rank IX gear. Since they will get cash rewards for the territories they control for 2 weeks, it is most likely those top guilds will pour HUGE amounts into the bids to re-take the territories. They can afford to outbid everyone else because PWI GAVE THEM THE MONEY TO DO IT.
Unless a VERY simple change is made to TW that will make it more competitive and strategic and fun for just about everyone.
Make all the TW battles held at the exact same time.
Right now, TW battles are spread out over time, so the dominant guild can send their 50 TW warriors to mop up the competition in one battle after another. Cha-ching! Another 10 million coin for 10 minutes of battle.... before the night's over their guild has made 500 million coin.
In real life, if someone wants to conquer the whole world, they better be prepared to fight battles in 50 places at once. If TW was the same way, guilds would have to prioritize what lands they wanted to hold and defend and to which fights they would have to send the majority of their fighters based on the strength of the attacker. It would be nearly impossible for one guild to control the whole map, and even the strongest would have to really work to control 5 or 6 territories.
The result? The medium size guild that would never dream of risking 10 million to take on the strongest guild on the server WOULD be willing to take that risk against a guild similar in size. More players would be able to take part in TW (instead of the 50-100 players it has become restricted to). More cash flow for charms and catapults, more money for PWI, more happy and loyal players.
And almost NO programming changes or changes to TW rules or settings or anything. It could be implemented with almost no effort, but would vastly change and improve the entire Territory system. Gone will be the static maps that never change (though I do look at it every few months just our of curiosity). EVERYONE will have a chance to be a land owner at least for a short time, and the cash flow generated by this feature of the game would be HUGE.
Only possible downsides: at the time when TW's are conducted PW servers will be jammed with THOUSANDS of extra players. And in the hours leading up to it, the Boutique servers will be flooded with requests to buy health and mana charms, people scrambling to buy new gear and get it upgraded so they have a better chance of winning. I don't know if the PW servers can handle so much activity. The regular map will be awful quiet with so many guilds participating, but that would likely only affect the un-guilded Cat Shops.
What do you think? Can this be done when the expansion comes out?
Unless a VERY simple change is made to TW that will make it more competitive and strategic and fun for just about everyone.
Make all the TW battles held at the exact same time.
Right now, TW battles are spread out over time, so the dominant guild can send their 50 TW warriors to mop up the competition in one battle after another. Cha-ching! Another 10 million coin for 10 minutes of battle.... before the night's over their guild has made 500 million coin.
In real life, if someone wants to conquer the whole world, they better be prepared to fight battles in 50 places at once. If TW was the same way, guilds would have to prioritize what lands they wanted to hold and defend and to which fights they would have to send the majority of their fighters based on the strength of the attacker. It would be nearly impossible for one guild to control the whole map, and even the strongest would have to really work to control 5 or 6 territories.
The result? The medium size guild that would never dream of risking 10 million to take on the strongest guild on the server WOULD be willing to take that risk against a guild similar in size. More players would be able to take part in TW (instead of the 50-100 players it has become restricted to). More cash flow for charms and catapults, more money for PWI, more happy and loyal players.
And almost NO programming changes or changes to TW rules or settings or anything. It could be implemented with almost no effort, but would vastly change and improve the entire Territory system. Gone will be the static maps that never change (though I do look at it every few months just our of curiosity). EVERYONE will have a chance to be a land owner at least for a short time, and the cash flow generated by this feature of the game would be HUGE.
Only possible downsides: at the time when TW's are conducted PW servers will be jammed with THOUSANDS of extra players. And in the hours leading up to it, the Boutique servers will be flooded with requests to buy health and mana charms, people scrambling to buy new gear and get it upgraded so they have a better chance of winning. I don't know if the PW servers can handle so much activity. The regular map will be awful quiet with so many guilds participating, but that would likely only affect the un-guilded Cat Shops.
What do you think? Can this be done when the expansion comes out?
Post edited by babesinn on
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Comments
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lol. you think that 10m in 10min (ignoring TW costs) is a lot. 3-4squads can make more than that.
also... if you think that IRL an empire was leaving guilds and factions to just form and attack again and again... lol.
ur system basically removes every kind of reward from tw, making it pointless.0 -
The only way to fix this game is remove the aps **** and reduce upgrade/slot effectiveness by 75% in PVP. 25% is still a pretty large margin, and your gear's pve effectiveness would remain the same.
Like how FL works in AO in an attempt to balance low levels vs high levels fights, to make it more skill/strategy based.Banned for no reason on -two- accounts, thanks PWE0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »lol. you think that 10m in 10min (ignoring TW costs) is a lot. 3-4squads can make more than that.
also... if you think that IRL an empire was leaving guilds and factions to just form and attack again and again... lol.
ur system basically removes every kind of reward from tw, making it pointless.
Perhaps you care to enlighten us on how a squad can make 10 million coin in 10 minutes. I would be very interested in learning about that, as would thousands of other players, I'm sure.
And you seem to have missed the point about RL world domination. Guilds and factions have zero to do with it, I really don't know where you came up with that idea. Being able to conguer and HOLD the entire world when having to fight 50 wars at the same time has everything to do with it. PW pretty much ignores that by scheduling TW so the dominant guild can send their fighters to first one scheduled battle then to another, and another after that. If you have even a basic understanding of history and warfare tactics you understand how far from reality that process is. In RL, a leader would have to prioritize how and where to use their resources. The more territory they want to conquer and control, the more difficult it becomes as their resources are spread thin. If the TW are held all at the same time, the top guild may have to decide to use all of their warriors to defend a level 1 territory against a strong opponent at the cost of not defending a level 3 territory being attacked by a mid-size faction. War is hell, you have to give up some things to keep other things.
As for what you say about rewards, I really don't understand your meaning. A few sentences before you said 10 million coins (the reward for holding a level 3 territory) is nothing. Ok, if you say so. So are you trying to say that the only thing that IS rewarding is to be a member of the elite guild that controls the entire territory map because they have more members who purchased the best gear? I guess if those guild leaders are not smart enough to employ strategic tactics to retain territory then it would be disappointing to be conquered by a smaller guild. How sad that these groups have come to feel entitled to a handout of a paltry few hundred million every week without having to do anything extra except show up in their +10 nirvana gear they bought 6 months ago.
No, the top guilds have grown fat and lazy. And what's worse, they are not spending enough money anymore on new gear. If TW can be competitive again and guild leaders actually have to use their brains and strategy to win and hold territories, THEN you will see Perfect World grow and remain a viable game. Let it be dominated by 40 elitists with an entitlement mentality and this time next year they will be announcing they are pulling the plug on PW.0 -
Frankly, Babesinn, I salute you for sticking to your guns and seeing this through. You have my support 100%.
This is a really great idea. A lot of people clamor for a "limit on territories you can hold," and that's fine... it's a little less realistic, but fine in theory. It allows for more people to have a chance at TW. But with Babesinn's suggestion here, you're given the OPPORTUNITY to have the whole map.
Assuming your faction is truly awesome enough to maintain it.
So that's one overwhelming suggestion she's already handled in her idea. A second point (I don't think she took into consideration yet~) is that having to defend multiple territories at one time means you're splitting your best faction members, or just forced to pick which territories are most important to you while sacrificing the others. That way, you're not constantly sending out your amazingly cash-shop-invinciblarg players to wipe out everyone in their territories. It's a wonderful side-effect!
The only issue I see with this plan is simply timezone problems - another thing the playerbase seems to be constantly harping on. This, unfortunately, will NEVER be resolved. Frankly, it's impossible. If you align your schedule with western America, then those in Europe will be missing out. Vice-versa applies here. But the simple fact is, you can't please everyone. The different servers are on different schedules - find a server that works best for you. Otherwise, it's nothing more than a case of having your cake and wanting to eat it, too.
In the end, this makes Territory Wars a very viable option, whereas before it hardly seemed even a possibility. What's more, this could open Territory Wars for factions of all sizes. That means more factions will get to experience the rewards and the fun of this otherwise impossible aspect of the game.
Consider my hat tossed into the ring. And I'll defend that hat and the ground it's landed on, tooth and nail.
-Dimitrik0 -
again i supposrt ideas like this. from day one since i joined PW i suggested things like this. lets face it, it's unfair to everyone else how a mare 200 players can benifit from owning land but everyone else can't. now tell me what the hell can these guys do with all the coin they get from the land? it amazes me how the talk of "balance" gets thrown about yet they have something like this that is so obviously UNbalanced.0
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Perhaps you care to enlighten us on how a squad can make 10 million coin in 10 minutes. I would be very interested in learning about that, as would thousands of other players, I'm sure.
i said 3-4squads.
And you seem to have missed the point about RL world domination. Guilds and factions have zero to do with it, I really don't know where you came up with that idea. Being able to conguer and HOLD the entire world when having to fight 50 wars at the same time has everything to do with it. PW pretty much ignores that by scheduling TW so the dominant guild can send their fighters to first one scheduled battle then to another, and another after that. If you have even a basic understanding of history and warfare tactics you understand how far from reality that process is. In RL, a leader would have to prioritize how and where to use their resources. The more territory they want to conquer and control, the more difficult it becomes as their resources are spread thin. If the TW are held all at the same time, the top guild may have to decide to use all of their warriors to defend a level 1 territory against a strong opponent at the cost of not defending a level 3 territory being attacked by a mid-size faction. War is hell, you have to give up some things to keep other things.
are u saying that the Roman Empire fought constantly armies that attacke each one of their cities? they fought only at the borders; and often they attacked first, used espionage etc etc
As for what you say about rewards, I really don't understand your meaning. A few sentences before you said 10 million coins (the reward for holding a level 3 territory) is nothing. Ok, if you say so. So are you trying to say that the only thing that IS rewarding is to be a member of the elite guild that controls the entire territory map because they have more members who purchased the best gear? I guess if those guild leaders are not smart enough to employ strategic tactics to retain territory then it would be disappointing to be conquered by a smaller guild. How sad that these groups have come to feel entitled to a handout of a paltry few hundred million every week without having to do anything extra except show up in their +10 nirvana gear they bought 6 months ago.
the rewarding thing is conquering the map, becoming the top guild, helping ur guild defend; and once u do it, do it again (reform).
No, the top guilds have grown fat and lazy. And what's worse, they are not spending enough money anymore on new gear. If TW can be competitive again and guild leaders actually have to use their brains and strategy to win and hold territories, THEN you will see Perfect World grow and remain a viable game. Let it be dominated by 40 elitists with an entitlement mentality and this time next year they will be announcing they are pulling the plug on PW.
i doubt that they are not spending a lot of money on gear. if they dont, are u telling me that everyone else is so uh..undegeared? low-farming? that cant compete with something so outdated?
personally i believe that the guild base wars will solve this problem.
small TW, available to all while keeping the map for the old TW.0 -
we need more ideas like this
every few months the current top faction will get bored and lazy and a new one will take over only to repeat their mistakes
we need a better way to balance it out0 -
To Thanos: I'll largely let babesinn deal with you, but there are some really fundamental things you're missing.
1.) You still didn't explain anything. 3-4 squads? Doing what? I'm sure everyone else in the game is still very interested to learn how you make that much money in 10 minutes. Or if you grossly exaggerated, man up to it.
2.) Oh, silly. The armies opposing the Romans (i.e., Persia, etc) didn't have the convenience of picking and choosing which territories they got to assail from. The benefit of factions is that they can move largely undetected to oust an occupying force from inside the front lines. That's a game aspect, as well as an explored option in military history that still makes perfect sense. But at the same time, I think you're missing the whole entire point of this suggestion.
3.) You identify the reward as being able to keep everyone else from enjoying that aspect of the game. If you can't lord over everyone else, well, then, that's just unacceptable! ...Wow, dude. Spoiled. Seriously spoiled. If the actual reward (the money you seem so flippant about) means so little to you, how's about you donate it? The Get Dimitrik Proper Dyes Foundation is a good choice!
4.) I don't honestly know enough about the cash players' ins and outs to respond to this one adequately, as I'm not a cash player. Someone else can take this.
In the end, the whole purpose to this suggestion is to make TW a possibility for everyone. Not just the overpowered factions who define "success" as "block everyone else out."0 -
Dimitrik - Dreamweaver wrote: »To Thanos: I'll largely let babesinn deal with you, but there are some really fundamental things you're missing.
1.) You still didn't explain anything. 3-4 squads? Doing what? I'm sure everyone else in the game is still very interested to learn how you make that much money in 10 minutes. Or if you grossly exaggerated, man up to it.
2.) Oh, silly. The armies opposing the Romans (i.e., Persia, etc) didn't have the convenience of picking and choosing which territories they got to assail from. The benefit of factions is that they can move largely undetected to oust an occupying force from inside the front lines. That's a game aspect, as well as an explored option in military history that still makes perfect sense. But at the same time, I think you're missing the whole entire point of this suggestion.
3.) You identify the reward as being able to keep everyone else from enjoying that aspect of the game. If you can't lord over everyone else, well, then, that's just unacceptable! ...Wow, dude. Spoiled. Seriously spoiled. If the actual reward (the money you seem so flippant about) means so little to you, how's about you donate it? The Get Dimitrik Proper Dyes Foundation is a good choice!
4.) I don't honestly know enough about the cash players' ins and outs to respond to this one adequately, as I'm not a cash player. Someone else can take this.
In the end, the whole purpose to this suggestion is to make TW a possibility for everyone. Not just the overpowered factions who define "success" as "block everyone else out."
1) nirvana 6-10min, average 3mil per run, 9-12mil by 3-4squads
2) "In real life, if someone wants to conquer the whole world, they better be prepared to fight battles in 50 places at once"
OP wants to use RL examples to justify his multi-attack proposal.
all i'm saying is that this isnt really correct and the analogy with RL is flawed.
for example, I dont think that RL factions etc had the size of an empire's army (it's 80vs80 after all) and were able to move it undetected anywhere.
3)that's how every game/tournaments works more or less.
the weaker leave while the stronger keep playing till one wins.
chess tournaments, tennis tournaments, anything.
OP's proposal is the equivalent of "ooh Kasparov is too strong, lets have 50 players to play against him at the same time so we can all have fun".
u can already have 3-way ganks, if u can win with that well...lol.
as I said i think that this will be fixed with guild bases.
i guess that it will be some sort of "TW for everyone".
I also think that enabling TW-like battles between guilds/between guild members is a nice idea (guild A,B organize a fight, no land at stake)
also, i think that having a guild owning the map for months is kinda silly.
offer a grand prize (some coins and give teleport priviledges to all terittories/apothecary for some time) and reset the map.
plain, simple, top guild gets something, the game starts again0 -
I'm just going to point out that a full faction is not an empire. Archosaur and its military would be an empire. The factions holding territory are just that - factions. So, yeah, the playing field is still level. It's factions against factions, not factions against an empire. Otherwise, yeah, you would have to defend a myriad of locations all at once from multiple attackers, not conveniently when you can send your absolute best at all times.
And that's a gross overstatement. It's not even how the game currently works. These overpowered factions have the entire maps because the current format is accommodating to their strengths. Superior cash-powered players, superior numbers, and no sacrifice or strategy. An entire aspect of the game being locked out to other factions is neither fair, nor fun, particularly on a game that's free to play.
If you believe the guild bases will correct the issue, I guess we'll see in about three weeks. Until then, I still strongly support this idea.0 -
Dimitrik - Dreamweaver wrote: »An entire aspect of the game being locked out to other factions is neither fair, nor fun, particularly on a game that's free to play.
Replace "An entire aspect" with "The most important aspect".Banned for no reason on -two- accounts, thanks PWE0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »3)that's how every game/tournaments works more or less.
the weaker leave while the stronger keep playing till one wins.
chess tournaments, tennis tournaments, anything.
OP's proposal is the equivalent of "ooh Kasparov is too strong, lets have 50 players to play against him at the same time so we can all have fun".
u can already have 3-way ganks, if u can win with that well...lol.
Those tournaments / games all have end conditions. In a game of starcraft for example after one side eliminates the other side you can start a new game. TW has no such condition and the reward for conquering the map is to hold it indefinitely until you get bored.
Chess is a poor example since chess amateurs aren't forced to play against pros like Kasparov.
It's even more silly will you learn that Kasparov (like all grand champions) can easily play 25+ games of chess simultaneously http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsG7sdF4X8k&feature=player_embedded&t=1m29s
Its much more impressive than only 3.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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this gives TW a tacitcal aspect. sure then it all boils down the top guild will have the top teir lands but still at least others can get a chance at owning SOME kind of land. TW is an aspect of this game that is not only unbalanced, but underdeveloped, there is much room to improve TW in general.
as i said before. a faction can be as big as 200 players (let's assume 100 of them are alts). for ONE faction to have the map like that when there are many other factions, is just wrong. it's like PW is catering to that one faction. something ANYTHING, should be done about one guild taking the entire map. at the very least we should be able to form alliance guilds so several guilds can pool their high levels to have a shot.0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Those tournaments / games all have end conditions. In a game of starcraft for example after one side eliminates the other side you can start a new game. TW has no such condition and the reward for conquering the map is to hold it indefinitely until you get bored.
well, that's why i said that getting a map reset when a guild gets the map plus a prize for the guild would be nice xd
Chess is a poor example since chess amateurs aren't forced to play against pros like Kasparov.
yup, i agree that having TW-instances open for other guilds would be nice.
I hope that that will happen with guild bases
It's even more silly will you learn that Kasparov (like all grand champions) can easily play 25+ games of chess simultaneously http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsG7sdF4X8k&feature=player_embedded&t=1m29s
Its much more impressive than only 3.
yeah xd
well, the major difference is that Kasparov has every piece on every board; he is not sending a queen to board1, a pawn to board2 etc.
maybe let us duplicate our chars and send them to various battles? that would be fun lol xd
anyway, imho, the problem isnt that a guild holds the map;
it's that guilds that dont own land cannot have battles between them.0 -
Outlaw_Arch - Heavens Tear wrote: »at the very least we should be able to form alliance guilds so several guilds can pool their high levels to have a shot.
That's a good supplement, too. I like that idea. Kudos, Outlaw.
If you implement both of these ideas, the huge overpowered factions would even have an opportunity to better defend multiple territories so they wouldn't be QQ-ing over having to actually share the map.
That said, the bigger factions would probably be more interested in trying to maintain their own territories and consider the other huge, overpowered factions to be competition. So the smaller, not-OP factions would still have a chance. But if you wanted to make sure monopolizing didn't happen, you could set restrictions on what kinds of factions could ally. Like faction level, or something, being a deciding factor. That might be going too far, though. I'unno.ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »anyway, imho, the problem isnt that a guild holds the map;
Actually, yeah. That's exactly the problem. Other factions want a chance to hold land and have the prize. It shouldn't be in the stranglehold of one single faction.
...
God, I can't believe I just used "QQ" as a verb. Ugh.0 -
Dimitrik - Dreamweaver wrote: »Actually, yeah. That's exactly the problem. Other factions want a chance to hold land and have the prize. It shouldn't be in the stranglehold of one single faction.
if other guilds want the land, they should come and get it.
i support that everyone should have fun in TW-like instances
but if they want the prize they should deserve it.
everyone wants to have a prize, very few can actually work to get it0 -
And we're back to square one with you, aren't we? Augh...
I was going to recap everything, but it's easier just to say.. go back to the first page. Re-read. Get back up to speed.
The TW format is unfair in a huge way, and locked out to most of the playerbase. That's fail. You're obviously someone in one of those "we own everything" factions. We're very sorry you might have to share the map. But if a handful of players have to give up a part of their monopoly so the rest of the entire game can play, too, well... that sounds about fair, now doesn't it?0 -
Dimitrik - Dreamweaver wrote: »And we're back to square one with you, aren't we? Augh...
I was going to recap everything, but it's easier just to say.. go back to the first page. Re-read. Get back up to speed.
The TW format is unfair in a huge way, and locked out to most of the playerbase. That's fail. You're obviously someone in one of those "we own everything" factions. We're very sorry you might have to share the map. But if a handful of players have to give up a part of their monopoly so the rest of the entire game can play, too, well... that sounds about fair, now doesn't it?
i am in a faction that owned the map, then reformed into another faction, essencially reseting the map. we currently fight the other powerful factions instead of going after the land of the lesser ones.
as I said, if you want to play, a TW-like instance (guild wars?) would be enough. but you want land.
ok, how about this: a lot of maps.
once a guild gets land in map1, cant get land in the rest maps etc.
maps will have different rewards to motivate powerful factions to move in one map, less powerful to less rewarding maps etc.
you get to play with as much competition u wish; if u find the opposing factions too strong u move to a lesser map, if u find them too weak u move to a higher map.
"but but i wont be in the best map!"
well, discriminating against the more powerful so anyone can get the top lands isnt a solutions..might as well roll dice.
balancing something isnt just caring about the "weak"; you should provide sufficient motivation for players to evolve and improve their characters. otherwise we can just go play a FPS if character development means nothing.0 -
First off, I completely support Babesinn's idea. It seems a great way to make the game more accessible and more enjoyable for everyone.
One point in your first post, when you were pointing out possible downsides about the PW servers being crammed with more players, I'd just like to give my thoughts. As far as I'm aware, the participants of TW tend to gather in different areas. And while I understand thousands of extra players will be online, they'll all be secluded to their own areas, so in my own opinion it can't be too much worse than when PWI hold events in Archosaur and everyone is gathered in the same place, making the city even more lagtastic than usual. So I shouldn't think PWI would have too much of an issue with your idea.
In relation to previous posts, I'd like to add that TW is currently dominated by cash-player factions who can simply buy all of their gear, giving complete dominance over those who, God forbid, actually work for their things, by farming for money, etc. Currently, TW is not a fun aspect of the game for the non-cash-paying playerbase.
And as for your comment about making ten million coins in ten minutes, I just can't quite get my head around that. Because, I can only assume you're meaning squads made up of your own faction members. But once again, Nirvana is only accessible to high level players with decent gear if they want to be part of the factions that make Nirvana runs.
Agreeing, now, with Dimitrik's point, Babesinn's idea would make it impossible for one faction to hold all territories. A faction can only hold so many members, and, once a faction has to split up its members to fight for/defend, say, five different territories all at the same time, it's not going to go so well. Picking out a point that was made earlier; at least a handful of faction members are alts, and due to time differences, no every single faction member will be online at the particular time. TW has the potential to be so much more varied on the map, and so much more competitive between factions.
At the moment TW is only really accessible to cash-players in "elite" factions. I don't see the fun in that for the people who want to play the advertised 'free-to-play' PWI. Paying is supposed to give you something that a free-player doesn't have, like fashion or mounts, hence the Cash Shop. It's not supposed to allow cash-players to dominate one of the main aspects of the game. Not everyone pays thousands of Dollars into a game, thanks. I have a real life to spend my money on.
Moving on, now, to your latest post, Thanos. I'll start with your first comment. 'I am in a faction that owned the map, then reformed into another faction.' By the fact that you play in Dreamweaver server, I can only assume you mean 'Calamity' and 'Regenesis', which leads me further to assume you must be a cash-player to be in there. Character development? Please, give me a break. Cash-players don't care squat about character development. All they care about is getting the top gear so that they can be better than everyone else, and feel all high-and-mighty about themselves. Why don't you try talking to someone who hasn't put a penny into the game to aid them to be better than others in any PvP sort of sence, and yet still manage to get themselves to a decent high level, and still manage to get decent gear for their characters. Please quit being so hypocritical.
Now for my next point, I mean not to sound overly rude, but... A lot of maps? Seriously? Not only does it sound silly, but could you imagine the extra programming for that. The whole thing doesn't even make much sense!
And please, dear God, don't ever mention about evolving and improving our characters. How is a penniless player supposed to "evolve and improve" when, not only having to compete with cash-players such as yourself, with your end-game gear and with your trying to justify yourself by spouting out bull****, but also, for ****ing the economy so that everything is rediculously priced and people have to work twice as long to make the gold to afford that charm, or those set of wings.
There are so many things I've left unsaid, but the written word just doesn't quite convey sarcasm as well as actual speech. Shame.
I enjoy a game where I can work hard without having to buy my way to the top. Sure, I like to buy the occasional fashion item and such, but that's just me. I've spent the last thirteen years in school, while having no job, so what must it be like to have so much money, God, that I can spend thousands of Pounds on pixels and trying to belittle others who just want to enjoy some recreation time? I pray that I'll never know.
Maybe you should try playing the game without spending anything on your character? It'll be good practice for they day when you've thrown all your money away.0 -
i THINK the standard argument here is the fact that it's only possible for the highest leveled or geared players to own land. even if several normal guild break up and reform into one, it will still be exceeding difficult to beat the guild that has 80% of the players with top gear. this is where having attacks in several areas come in. the top guilds can't defend like 4 places at the same time. they would have to be smart about what land they want. the top guilds will still have some land to battle on, but so will other guilds.ok, how about this: a lot of maps.
once a guild gets land in map1, cant get land in the rest maps etc.
maps will have different rewards to motivate powerful factions to move in one map, less powerful to less rewarding maps etc.
you get to play with as much competition u wish; if u find the opposing factions too strong u move to a lesser map, if u find them too weak u move to a higher map.
"but but i wont be in the best map!"
well, discriminating against the more powerful so anyone can get the top lands isnt a solutions..might as well roll dice.
adding more maps would be a huge work load now wouldn't it? suggestions should be made and kept simple not throwing something that could take years of work to make happen. i fail to see how this is discriminating the more powerful guilds. i DO however see how it's discriminating the smaller ones. it doesn't give any other guild a CHANCE to have other land since the top guilds are so over overwhelmingly powerful, and they fight battles one by one. now i do believe there should be several battles at one time, however, i DON'T think even the powerful guilds should have to worry about every single one of their land being attacked by smaller faction. there should be a limit to how many attacks can be lunched at a guild, not so much that they would be unable to defend, but not so little that their 100 memebrs can still effectively hold all the land. i would say 2-3 attacks at the same time may keep things balanced.
another thing to consider is the guild bases. if what is read on the site is right, once again, they play right into the hands of those top guilds. any guild can have a base, but only a few will be able to upgrade them since the resources needed to do so are very rare and must be fought for. so you tell me, how is going to be getting those resources?0 -
Karryn - Dreamweaver wrote: »stuff
my build when i joined calamity: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6dd1bde83fc577f6
when i joined i have put ~100$ in game, a large part of them went to wings, fashion etc.
yes i was a noob and bought fashion and wings from the boutique qq
i cannot really say that it is cashopped. since then, I have spent hours calculating the efficiency of sharding, alternate builds, benefit/cost of armor etc. I know a lot of ppl that dont have the elite gear you think they have, people that barely cashop or not cashop at all.
sorry to burst the "top guilds are +12 everything major cashoppers" bubble.
I realize that it's one of the excuses of most players;
"i'm not a cashcow, i have a life, i dont waste my life in pixels, i cannot compete, i give up, this is unfair, they should change the game"
but i just cannot let such a lie pass around.
regarding the multiple maps; yes it kinda requires a bit of programming, nothing huge though or work of years. it kinda appears confusing but i think that it is the most fair way, the best way so everyone can have fun: casual players compete with casual players etc.
besides, it's not like they will actually implement anything so the complexity..eh w/e xd
ayway. while I believe that guild bases will fix it, there are many ways that they will not.
good luck with ur campaing, i'm going to actually improve my char instead.0 -
Chainsaw Karryn is chainsaw.
First, dude, don't try to float that BS-balloon past us. The game may not be made of people with massively disposable income, but we're not stupid. The movers and shakers of those factions have plugged money into having the bestestest gears in all the world. And the condescension there is only slight.
Yes, creating multiple maps is both senseless and overt. For multiple maps, you'd logically need more space to run around. Otherwise, why should the main map of Perfect World be the only one you can walk on? That means more mobs, more terrains, more locations... all instead of just having TW at the same time. It's not the best way for everyone to have fun. The best way for everyone to have fun is the straight up suggestion here. Everyone gets territory, or at least has a chance to get it. The only downside? The huge, overpowered factions have to share the playground.
See how that comes out? It kind've makes them sound like entitled self-important whiners, doesn't it?
As for what you've said, Outlaw... that's an interesting compromise. But I could see a few potential problems with it. How many members are in a level 3 faction? If the limit is only 3 attacks at once, they could conceivably defend everything and put us right back into the same ol' problem. Five simultaneous attacks would be more appropriate. There's really no way to adequately protect that much, right?
'Course, these are semantics. What I'm saying is, it's an interesting compromise. We just want to be careful to avoid allowing the same problem to occur again. It's not like the huge factions are actually suffering with this suggestion, despite what Thanos is bleating. They will probably always hold the highest ranked territories and be an irremovable fixation of the map with more than one territory.0 -
PWI may be a Free-To-Play game but it's not a Free-To-Operate game, so they need a revenue stream to keep the servers operating. While there are thousands of players that have not put any $$ into the game, the ones that actually pay the bills are those that do.
TW has been a way to entice players to spend real life money on the game by purchasing charms and Boutique items and the Gold Trade to convert $$ into game coin. If you look at the elite factions, they have many players who have helped keep the servers running and have the gear and weapons to show for it. PWI thanks you for your support.
But that revenue stream has about played out.
As the elite factions have taken over the map, handed out their winnings to their members to further build their gear, and quickly dispatched any other guild that would try to dethrone them, they have become complacent and "end game" oriented. What else do you do after you get your Nirvana gear to +10? Start an alt and do it all over again? Sometimes. Move to a different game completely? Sometimes. That's not generating a good income stream though.
Unless you are in one of the few guilds that does TW, there is little incentive (or need) to spend the time and $$ to get high rank gear or weapons. I am in a Level 3 guild that has tried TW in the past and were soundly defeated when the opposing team showed up with 10X as many players over level 95 as we had. Even with the map being re-set there are a lot level 100-102 players saying it's not worth it to bid on an empty territory since the big guilds will just wipe the map again.
My suggestion, of having all the wars at the same time, would open up a huge revenue stream for PW, since there would be incentive for players from ALL factions to spend time and $$ for better gear to gain and hold territory. Instead of relying on a few hundred players who have already spent money (and likely would not do it again), which is concentrated in a few guilds, future growth of revenue lies in distributed opportunity for the masses of other players. If you are not in one of the 2 or 3 guilds that do TW, there is little need to spend the money on better gear. If TW is open to everyone, then there is the perceived NEED by all these other prospective land-owning guilds to spend money on better gear.
So instead of relying on 200 people concentrated in a few guilds to spend money to keep the game running, they would be relying on thousands more members scattered in the mid-size guilds. It's a vast, untapped revenue stream. The elite guilds would still control the major cities and the guild revenue it generates for them, but there will be incentive for others to spend money who are just as good of players but don't happen to belong to the Elite Guild of the server.
The idea makes sense for the player base and it makes business sense for the game developers.0 -
Karryn - Dreamweaver wrote: »In relation to previous posts, I'd like to add that TW is currently dominated by cash-player factions who can simply buy all of their gear, giving complete dominance over those who, God forbid, actually work for their things, by farming for money, etc. Currently, TW is not a fun aspect of the game for the non-cash-paying playerbase.
AMoving on, now, to your latest post, Thanos. I'll start with your first comment. 'I am in a faction that owned the map, then reformed into another faction.' By the fact that you play in Dreamweaver server, I can only assume you mean 'Calamity' and 'Regenesis', which leads me further to assume you must be a cash-player to be in there.
These statements are false and unfair. Myself and quite a large percentage of Regenesis are non-cash players. I feel comfortable the same could be said about our 'rivals' Equinox.
As an officer for Regenesis, I can assure you in the 4 months or so I've been monitoring applications and interviewing candidates, there has not once been a time when someone was even asked if they spend money on the game.
While the TW system can be frustrating for smaller guilds (and I agree there should be some sort of change) please don't let yourself slip into the false belief that to be in a 'powerhouse' guild you have to spend money on the game.
As for the proposal, you need to remember that if every TW was to be held at the exact same time, you'd eliminate a huge portion of the server if they happen to be unavailable at that specific time. There are already so many people who can't TW because of time zone issues as it is.
I too am hoping that the 40v40 guild base wars will help, but I also agree that isn't the final answer.
And no, babe - TW pay barely covers expenses (and for many classes it doesn't do that). Even at our peak in Cala holding the entire map, TW pay didn't come close to covering charm and other costs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida
0 -
Ted, I think different servers generate different cash flows, but I can only speak for Lost, a PvP server. I did look at the TW map last week when this issue came up (first time in maybe 2 months) and saw that the dominant guild held about 35 territories and had 3 wars scheduled. Even if you somehow manage to exhaust a health charm in the 10-15 minutes average time for these so-called wars, the 400+ million in stipend the guild will receive this week would more than make up the cost. Judging by how fast those wars were over, the only ones getting charm ticks were the losers.
Changes to the game have to produce a benefit to both players and the owners. Some changes for player benefit are made to keep people in the game (and indirect benefit of spending more money). The change I propose would do the same thing, making it a viable option for the developers because it increases revenue while enhancing game play for a broader segment of players.
If they wanted to take it a step further and also make it possible for the elite guilds to conquer the whole map, have TW all at the same time but also make it so guilds can form alliances to defend territories (but not attack). Call the alliance participants mercenaries maybe, and if a guild uses alliance members to defend then the stipend is split between them. Nothing like adding politics and diplomacy into the mix to make things interesting, but that would require extra programming, which is beyond the scope of the original thread.0 -
i personally will not accuse the top guilds of being heavy cash shop users. it's a rather silly thing to say when no one who isn't a dev can monitor these exchanges. for all we know, those top guilds could have banded together and do events that farmed mats for their gear. in the end such accusations are just assumptions. i know for a fact that one can make massive coin just buying and selling TT mats via afk catshops, something that is extremely common in all mmos.
this is a matter of principle, at least to me it is. there should be methods in place to give all guilds a chance and i always knew about the issue with players in different zones, that was one of the reason i suggested alliances as a way for several guilds to pool their high levels. and have a crack at the chance of owning land between 3 smaller guilds or so, it should, in theory, be possible to rally just enuf for at least one attack somewhere, since an alliance would have a larger player pool, it's easier to find players who are in the same time zone to take part. altho there really isn't anything stopping the top guilds from doing the same lol.
i personally don't have much hope for the 40 VS 40 guild base thing. i do hope it works out, but if the info i've read is right (good possibility that it's wrong) then we'll be right back to square one where the top guild would own the resources to upgrade said bases. we'll just have to wait a few more weeks and see.0 -
Thumbs up to Babesinn.
Seems like a very good idea to me, now let's just hope the devs
actually read and do something with this idea b:sad0 -
Thanks for weighing in, Aesh. With any luck, they will!0
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