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if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???

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  • NatureLover - HarshlandsNatureLover - Harshlands Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Instances that are done once a week? THATS EXACTLY THE POINT. 10s of millions of coins are gotten from doing these events in about 30min a day, while someone else makes the same amount from farming for HOURS.

    You don't need APS for Warsong BH...People were tanking it with a Lunar Bow last year before they ever got the idea of 5.0. As for the full instance, I haven't done it. Warsong is obviously not on anyone's priority for money-making

    You don't need APS for FC are you nuts? People were and are still doing the instance while in their lvl70s. Look at that wizard complaining about not getting into Frost that's terrible. People used to get to lvl 100 on cube alone, before it gave 1m exp per run.

    I'm not even going to humor Nirvana, because it sucks. Cube is better money/time than Nirvana. You had no idea did you?

    APS was the unfair money maker LAST SUMMER when people rolled APS toons and dominated contribution charts of multiple classes with their alts. Even then, it was a twice-a-day event, about 20min each. Nobody with a full time job and family farms day in and day out for what they need.

    Now about TT

    It's not that a squad doesn't want you because you lack DD, it's that a squad without DD would FAIL. Walk into 3-x TT, and tell me APS characters are the ones that are making it HARDER for you.

    and about Nirvana, it sucks

    Yes, strictly speaking the game doesnt forbid non-aps classes from joining the instances. And every instances CAN be done without aps. Problem is, because of the existence of 5aps, are you given a chance to do so nowadays?

    BUT, like i said earlier, have you seen any world chat (not my chat ok) that doesnt say "Need APS DD for nirvana", "need sins/bm for FC" "Looking for sins/bms for TT3-3"

    You can argue with that squad maker that its fine to let you in as a wiz, it kinda gets tiring having to argue against EVERY squad maker so that you even get a spot. We're better off just switch to our aps alt and get into the squad peacefully.
  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'm not denying the advantages that APS characters have in instances, but to say that they are the ones making PvE harder for everyone else is plain ignorance. I've outlined events that can potentially make 50m+ a week without the use of APS gears, and you tell me you're unsatisfied and still can't farm Nirvana with a wizard?

    Don't you get it about TT? What attempts at 3-2/3-3 have been made without APS characters and have succeeded/were profitable? APS characters were not the ones preventing people from farming 3-x TT, APS characters are the ones that make it possible. You can't say it's APS characters' fault that a wizard can't get into TT, because without APS characters, NO ONE WOULD BE FARMING THAT TT, especially since mat prices are capped by chip prices.

    And let me elaborate on why Nirvana sucks. Who the hell wants Nirvana now anyways except for some APS farmers who need the -int leggings or -int daggers? Without the existence of APS, would anyone really farm it? The only thing that keeps Nirvana from being total **** is the possibility of increasing APS with it. I mean, Nirvana on average is already not up there for money-making, but seriously, who would want Nirvana if APS was gone? Which BM or Sin would go for the 2nd cast leggings? Which Sin would go for first cast dagger? What market would there be for Nirvana especially with CHEAP RANK? Nirvana would be VERY EXPENSIVE FASHION because it looks pretty.

    The real question is, without the existence of APS, WOULD YOU BE GIVEN A CHANCE TO DO ANY OF THOSE?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • ZoanoAce - Lost CityZoanoAce - Lost City Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'm not denying the advantages that APS characters have in instances, but to say that they are the ones making PvE harder for everyone else is plain ignorance. I've outlined events that can potentially make 50m+ a week without the use of APS gears, and you tell me you're unsatisfied and still can't farm Nirvana with a wizard?

    Don't you get it about TT? What attempts at 3-2/3-3 have been made without APS characters and have succeeded/were profitable? APS characters were not the ones preventing people from farming 3-x TT, APS characters are the ones that make it possible. You can't say it's APS characters' fault that a wizard can't get into TT, because without APS characters, NO ONE WOULD BE FARMING THAT TT, especially since mat prices are capped by chip prices.

    And let me elaborate on why Nirvana sucks. Who the hell wants Nirvana now anyways except for some APS farmers who need the -int leggings or -int daggers? Without the existence of APS, would anyone really farm it? The only thing that keeps Nirvana from being total **** is the possibility of increasing APS with it. I mean, Nirvana on average is already not up there for money-making, but seriously, who would want Nirvana if APS was gone? Which BM or Sin would go for the 2nd cast leggings? Which Sin would go for first cast dagger? What market would there be for Nirvana especially with CHEAP RANK? Nirvana would be VERY EXPENSIVE FASHION because it looks pretty.

    The real question is, without the existence of APS, WOULD YOU BE GIVEN A CHANCE TO DO ANY OF THOSE?
    Hai Qui!b:cute As a '09 (or maybe older, idk rlly xD) in 1 word or phrase, what do u think about this change from our good 'ol days of common sense and real fun?b:question
    ●Barb - The "natural" leader. Cool and collected, slow to anger, and typically jovial. Swift to act when friends' lives are in danger, and prepared to lay down his life if the situation calls for it.

    End of lvling, starting of the unimaginableb:laughb:victoryb:coolb:cool
  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    it's ****

    edit: but the problems with this game are not something that a simple nerf (whatever people think that would be) would fix.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • VyperionV - Lost CityVyperionV - Lost City Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    private server is one thing, PWI is another.
    If you can't make the diff out of it, you have a problem.
    On privates with 2-3 days on non stop crafting you can get insta cast mage or 5 aps BM. Archer is the suckiest in Private S just because his natural def suck.
    In Private servers no one complains about imbalance because it's what it is: PRIVATE server. You can have a max geared and refined char in under a week. Don't like it? change. Takes many months and a lot of effort to do that in PWI. I know, I played on Vendetta, Fake, Sublime and tried a few other I didn't really like. And you learn PVP on privat servers? ROFLMAO... Air pvp is not existant , because you do half dmg. Ground PvP is all about who forgets to equip charm(or hiero). PPL hit 250k+ crits on eachother, how can you learn PvP with stuff like that? At best you learn how to avoing being killed. Well, actually I guess that nightmare of yours was why you rolled a sin in the first place.
    So take your private server and shove it where sun doens't shine, to compare those things with PWI is just plain out stupid
    Actually the private servers i played have nothing to do with those crappy ones u mentioned. Those are not pw servers...those are bad jokes. On the private server i play took me 1 year to reach lvl 150. I lvl faster on pwi than i do there because there are no quests there. It takes ages to lvl crafting skills etc. Not all private servers are like vendetta or fake pw.
    As for the "shove thing" ...oh well...i expceted much more maturity and respect from the ppl here. Guess i was wrong
    From a PvE perspective (wrt soloing for profit) (...)Goes back to watching every sin on the server get into a FC before me.
    It's the same in most games. Mele classes farm much better than magic ones as for the fact that ppl here can't match builts from private servers ....i think you are wrong. I noticed that a lot of ppl showed up with +10 equips over night. That kinda allows ppl to adopt what build they want. $$ power is felt even better than on private servers.


    well, I guess the meaning was "5 aps is so OP it's hard for any1 else to make something significant in PvE"


    @Ruxal
    Dude, drop it, don't even try.
    Private servers have no cost in running anything. 3 mil HP/MP charms at the cost of killing 1 mob at west gate. Come on, this kind of discussion is not worth the wear and tear on the keyboard.

    With this crazy lvling up (4 hours of hypers+2-3 quests got my archer to 55 from lvl 1) transforms the server drastically.If lvling is easy then farming should be too.You can easy make a farming char. As for 5 aps....archers could always reach 5 aps without any tome, nv pants or robe when using fists. It's from loooong ago.
    Not on al private servers charms are bought with the drop from a mob. On some private servers you must farm a few hours to get it. 2x Servers exist and they are populated. Same for other types.
    There i saw BM doing combo stun..here i didn't. there i saw archers taking advantage of their range...here i didn't. Each server has it's advantages and disadvantages. In my opinion pwi sux for PvP but on the other hand it has best PvE. People here complain about 5 aps since they are somehow frustrated (in pvp mostly) but main fact is that 5 aps is not rly a problem as long as the wep used is fist or dagger. Nobody complains that archer gets +128 atk level with r9 items and that it can 1 hit anything.
    Other classes have a hard time getting into squads because aps classes (with same equipment value and level) are preferred.
    (.....)And since you've alrdy got your aps, you wish not the nerf for aps b:chuckle
    I am not interval sin. I preffer Damage more than interval but i have no problems in finding squads and my items are not that great since i just started making my char.It's a matter of will. Who wants can find squad.


    Problem is that people like to complain. It's human nature to do that. When 5 aps will disapear people will complain about something else. And then when that something else will not be an issue any more new problems will appear. What pwi administration must take in consideration is that all the ppl who complain about aps didn't quit until now and that they managed to survive somehow (they benefit from aps clases too since they buy stuff farmed by them). On the other hand if the mele classes will be striped of their advantages server would suffer a severe crash and even though new patch is promising the rate of cash shoppers will diminish. No cash shoppers = no more pwi.
    What i try to do here is not stand up for 5 aps ppl because i play sin but stand up for 5 aps because it is not that much of a problem as ppl say it is. In fact it's a benefit, a benefit that advantages both side (pwi team and players).
  • ZoanoAce - Lost CityZoanoAce - Lost City Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    it's ****

    edit: but the problems with this game are not something that a simple nerf (whatever people think that would be) would fix.
    Thankies! Just the answer I was looking for.b:thanksb:thanks

    Edit: WALL OF TEXT ABOVE MEH!!!:O
    ●Barb - The "natural" leader. Cool and collected, slow to anger, and typically jovial. Swift to act when friends' lives are in danger, and prepared to lay down his life if the situation calls for it.

    End of lvling, starting of the unimaginableb:laughb:victoryb:coolb:cool
  • Rawrgh - Raging TideRawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Yes, strictly speaking the game doesnt forbid non-aps classes from joining the instances. And every instances CAN be done without aps. Problem is, because of the existence of 5aps, are you given a chance to do so nowadays?

    BUT, like i said earlier, have you seen any world chat (not my chat ok) that doesnt say "Need APS DD for nirvana", "need sins/bm for FC" "Looking for sins/bms for TT3-3"

    You can argue with that squad maker that its fine to let you in as a wiz, it kinda gets tiring having to argue against EVERY squad maker so that you even get a spot. We're better off just switch to our aps alt and get into the squad peacefully.
    I want to see proof of a 3-3 being done without APS.



    The only way to be able to do 3-3 since the change is to kill the bosses before they can purge/stun your entire squad and one shot your cleric.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • ElderSig - DreamweaverElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I love how 5 aps bring up how only they can do the new 3-x

    I remember the TTs being changed because they were being farmed too easily (by 5 aps)

    No 5 aps? TTs never would have changed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You really think the reason it was changed is because 5aps were farming it too easily? Venos were soloing up to 3-1 way before 5aps came into affect. I know a veno who was making 150m a weekend farming 1-3 during double drop. One weekend.

    Squad setup?

    Veno
    Veno dualing something (forgot what it was)

    Veno's friend veno
    Veno's friend veno dualing cleric

    Don't you people remember the threads about "lack of endgame content" way back? About how boring endgame instances were?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Sarrafeline - SanctuarySarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    You really think the reason it was changed is because 5aps were farming it too easily? Venos were soloing up to 3-1 way before 5aps came into affect. I know a veno who was making 150m a weekend farming 1-3 during double drop. One weekend.

    Squad setup?

    Veno
    Veno dualing something (forgot what it was)

    Veno's friend veno
    Veno's friend veno dualing cleric

    Don't you people remember the threads about "lack of endgame content" way back? About how boring endgame instances were?

    Uhhh... Correct me if I'm in the wrong zip code...

    How does Soloing TT1-3 have any effect on TT3-x? Seriously...

    And there are sins that spend all day soloing FCC, which may be why FCC exp gets totally nerfed. b:victory One class can nerf something for everyone.

    And making 150m from 2 days in TT during Double Drops is... Eh. not too impressive. =\ There were people making 200m a day off pack sales when packs were 50 silver a pack, yet the GM's didn't ban the packs? Oh, sorry, that's going off into the wrong QQ...

    Anyway...

    Oh to finish my previous thought...

    An 8x veno soloing TT1-2 takes around an hour, and a Herc. 1-3 is about the same. Forget Soulbanisher, too hard. You have to spend most of the time either using a Macro to heal pet, heal pet, attack, heal pet heal pet, go back to start, or do that manually. So your Herc basically solos the boss you're killing.

    Whereas when a Sin solos FCC, the bosses die in what... 30 seconds? 1 minute? It's a 45 minute run for all of FCC? Basically, a Veno soloing TT, assuming they aren't R9 or R8, is going to have to work at it and you aren't making pure profit, you gotta buy mana food, repair gear (healing pet for an hour will put a dent in durability of your weapon), etc. A Sin running FCC Solo... other than repairs, it's just spamming a Macro or triple spark and auto attack for the entire boss. =\ challenge for the 8X veno vs no challenge for the Sin... At least, from my perspective, I have never played a 101+ Sin nor have I soloed either instance, but I have gone duo in TT1-2 with a Veno/Herc on my Archer and DDed while her Herc tanked, and it still took 45 minutes for 3 bosses.

    And with the EXP you can get using Hypers in FCC... I think it would be a good thing for endgame to nerf that exp. Going from level 75 to level 101 without needing to upgrade your gear except maybe once, because it only takes a few days, was a little ridiculous. You need to spend some time in those levels to learn your gear and character. Balanced squads need to come back. When they do, I will make an effort to pry myself away from the pay to play MMO I'm now hooked on, and play PWI again. :p
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It means PWI clearly did not think people soloing a squad-based instance was OP, or those instances would have become insane as well.

    3-x TT really wasn't much harder except for Armageddon. It got changed because people clamored for endgame content and challenge.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Fist_Mama - HarshlandsFist_Mama - Harshlands Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    am i the only caster person that dosnt think im useless??? geeze you guys need some self esteem!! i have a wiz and tbh as much as people think aps "rule the game" they dont. wizs own pvp and somewhat TW(i say somewhat because i havent TWed since the cash change i only do pvp). maybe if you played your wiz correctly you wouldnt be so mad at aps and you guys should be happy because i know i was when my guild farmed most of my HH99 stuff in a week or so.
  • ElderSig - DreamweaverElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Lol I'm sure they nerfed it because of venos... right.

    Venos are balanced when it comes to soloing instances. Could they solo it? Yes. Could it be done a hell of a lot faster with a squad? Yes.

    5 aps? One 5 aps now = old TT squads before 5 aps.

    One or two 5 aps characters can do a TT faster than a full squad of non -int characters.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    @Elder
    You can't read can you.

    @Sarrafeline

    45min? That's just about how long a really well-geared APS/Cleric pair could finish old 3-2, and the gear requirement to melee tank Minister is MUCH, MUCH, more than having a Herc. IJS.

    I'll say it again, TT and Nirvana got modified because people ******* about lack of endgame challenge. They ******* that now that they leveled to 100, THERE'S NOTHING TO DO HOLY ****! Now, instead of the game being an "Asian Grinder", it's now a terrible "don't-need-to-work-for-exp" with NO ENDGAME CONTENT. Don't you remember those threads? The "Will we ever have endgame content" threads? When Nirvana came out don't you remember? People ******** at how easy that was? "I'm kind of disappointed, is this it? THIS?"

    PWI implemented a bunch of events, made instances stupidly stupider, and that is what we have today. Bad instances is bad way to answer to "no endgame content"? Perhaps...but who is complaining about the lack of endgame content now?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • VyperionV - Lost CityVyperionV - Lost City Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    And there are sins that spend all day soloing FCC, which may be why FCC exp gets totally nerfed. b:victory One class can nerf something for everyone.
    BM can solo even faster than sin. Can do pulls...stun...dragon...aoe...an Voilla! End of frost. He can even spark if using 1k pots that provide him with 2 chi.
    I was today in frost with r9 EA that can solo frost as well (faster than sins)
    Well equiped barb can solo too
    Veno can solo as well
    Well equiped mage class can solo and perhaps even cleric with good items.

    Conclusion: Any class can solo Frost. The fact that sin can stealth it's way to bosses and kills only them is quite a loss because best xp is coming from pulls. What's wrong in soloing a dungeon btw? There are many ppl close to max lvl anyway.
  • Zoe - Heavens Tear Zoe - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,814 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Of course nirvana is easy, everyone is running around with 5 aps. Stop using the best gear you can possibly get and things won't be so easy.

    Do nirvana with TT90 gear +2 or something and no aps. It'll be much more of a challenge I'm sure.
    Main characters
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  • VyperionV - Lost CityVyperionV - Lost City Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Of course nirvana is easy, everyone is running around with 5 aps. Stop using the best gear you can possibly get and things won't be so easy.

    Do nirvana with TT90 gear +2 or something and no aps. It'll be much more of a challenge I'm sure.
    Takes around 1 hour with low aps and trust me....after 2 runs with crappy drops u don;t feel like doing nirvana anymore.
    Let's face it! 5 aps makes the game run smoother and faster. Who wants this game to go slow can choose to do so on his own or within his group of friends. Whoever wants this game to move fast should have the chance to obtain it.
  • Rawrgh - Raging TideRawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    +1



    As much as people like to complain about 5 aps, NO ONE would like spending 3 hours in nirvana to get 1 rapture and realize that they just got 1/250th of a weapon, and that's not even counting rerolling the stats.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Cacophony - Lost CityCacophony - Lost City Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    BM can solo even faster than sin. Can do pulls...stun...dragon...aoe...an Voilla! End of frost. He can even spark if using 1k pots that provide him with 2 chi.
    I was today in frost with r9 EA that can solo frost as well (faster than sins)
    Well equiped barb can solo too
    Veno can solo as well
    Well equiped mage class can solo and perhaps even cleric with good items.

    Conclusion: Any class can solo Frost. The fact that sin can stealth it's way to bosses and kills only them is quite a loss because best xp is coming from pulls. What's wrong in soloing a dungeon btw? There are many ppl close to max lvl anyway.

    remotely less xp per run, but a very well geared sin can even do big room pull/dragons with their meager aoes. regardless of this, sins can do more runs in less time, making their effectiveness ridiculous.
  • Eoria - HarshlandsEoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I love to laugh at you people sometimes.

    3-2/3-3 can be done without interval. It requires an actual properly-geared bow archer for Emp/Steel and then a good melee char for Behe/Arma. Archer tanks Emp/Steel on the balcony while cleric stands off to the side diagonal from the tank for Emp and down on the floor for Steel. Behe, you should all know by now. Arma needs to have 1st cleric BB after sharptooth runs out while 2nd stands on the sidelines in case someone dies. It's harder, but it's not the insanely hard "OMG NEED APS DDS TO KILL" that you're all making it out to be.

    I do not deny that having APS DDs makes it go faster and safer though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • Sun_Burn - Lost CitySun_Burn - Lost City Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Takes around 1 hour with low aps and trust me....after 2 runs with crappy drops u don;t feel like doing nirvana anymore.
    Let's face it! 5 aps makes the game run smoother and faster. Who wants this game to go slow can choose to do so on his own or within his group of friends. Whoever wants this game to move fast should have the chance to obtain it.

    they probably made the drop rate so low because everyone rolled aps chars.

    It's ridiculous that you are almost forced to play a bm to 100 to get gears for your main class atm. Not to mention that classes like bm and aps barbs have lost their own meaning as to their original roles in squad.

    Fix aps, increase drop rates, problem solved.
  • Quilue - SanctuaryQuilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I love to laugh at you people sometimes.

    3-2/3-3 can be done without interval. It requires an actual properly-geared bow archer for Emp/Steel and then a good melee char for Behe/Arma. Archer tanks Emp/Steel on the balcony while cleric stands off to the side diagonal from the tank for Emp and down on the floor for Steel. Behe, you should all know by now. Arma needs to have 1st cleric BB after sharptooth runs out while 2nd stands on the sidelines in case someone dies. It's harder, but it's not the insanely hard "OMG NEED APS DDS TO KILL" that you're all making it out to be.

    I do not deny that having APS DDs makes it go faster and safer though.

    There is no properly geared bow archer without -int gear. IJS. What is that archer wearing? TT90s/OHT ****?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Sukinee - Heavens TearSukinee - Heavens Tear Posts: 262 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    To OP, yes PWI does unfortunately have to follow PWCN, they have a contract with them and all patch notes are sent from China to here. PWI devs/reps really don't have that much control over what is sent to us.

    Also, if someone could give me a link that provides concrete evidence on the nerfed APS matter that would be great.

    There are a lot more rumors floating around with this expansion a lot more than the last one.

    ...did'nt we have threads like this before? >_>
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  • VyperionV - Lost CityVyperionV - Lost City Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    remotely less xp per run, but a very well geared sin can even do big room pull/dragons with their meager aoes. regardless of this, sins can do more runs in less time, making their effectiveness ridiculous.
    So they do it faster...where is the problem? Not all classes should lvl just as fast. Bm can do it faster than sin. Nobody complains about bm. It seems to me like a problem of this type:
    "If i can't do it nobody should be able to do it either"
    I love to laugh at you people sometimes.

    3-2/3-3 can be done without interval. It requires an actual properly-geared bow archer for Emp/Steel and then a good melee char for Behe/Arma. Archer tanks Emp/Steel on the balcony while cleric stands off to the side diagonal from the tank for Emp and down on the floor for Steel. Behe, you should all know by now. Arma needs to have 1st cleric BB after sharptooth runs out while 2nd stands on the sidelines in case someone dies. It's harder, but it's not the insanely hard "OMG NEED APS DDS TO KILL" that you're all making it out to be.

    I do not deny that having APS DDs makes it go faster and safer though.
    Ofc it can be done without aps. But you noticed correct that the faster it is the better

    they probably made the drop rate so low because everyone rolled aps chars.

    It's ridiculous that you are almost forced to play a bm to 100 to get gears for your main class atm. Not to mention that classes like bm and aps barbs have lost their own meaning as to their original roles in squad.

    Fix aps, increase drop rates, problem solved.
    I don;t farm that much but i have money constantly from trades. Money is easy to get if you know how.
    Archers can 1 shot anybody. I'd preffer doing that instead of having 5 aps...don;t u agree? Same for mages. R9 is trully magnificient. Besides that r9 is grd 16 armor if i recall correctly. Besides that it has def lvl as set bonus. Magic skills hurt a lot but phys hits don't. It's almost impossible to kill full r9 using grd grd 12/14 wep without interval (i talk about fists)





    And as a conclusion to all:
    Some people donated tons of $$ just to get aps...is it fair to take away what they payed for? How do u think that will affect the reputation of this game?
    Anyone who gives the answer "some payed same amount of cash and got less" is selfish and very wrong because not all classes are the same. Advantages for mele are much more different than the ones magic classes have.
  • zetsuboizetsuboi Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    abit necro but... i can only say one thing.. its not the 5aps. its mainly sins.

    seriously stealth has made this game 10000000x easier and more boring. you see those fast fc squads sin only. they ignore all mobs and just run to bosses. takes few mins to clear whole fc bosses till exp room. then they sell it or change to alts or what so ever.

    id say make stealth work only in pvp. raise elite monsters(instances) stealth detection to like 90000 so you can abuse stealth in instances but you could use it outside of instances on normal monsters... that way you actually have to clear your way normally to bosses etc... like it was meant to be.

    also to balance out pvp there should be detection+++ gears or high apo lvl detection potions.

    also these guys talking about 5aps bms being easy.. ofcourse they are. you also forget sin got that wacky teleport attack which makes ranged kiting useless because they can just teleport next to you from long range.

    bms cant do that. quite same with seekers tho... those teleports are quite lame. not to mention after sin does that you cant get away because they got alot more move speed. + (maze steps).

    so are you saying sin isnt unbalanced? i say 5aps isnt unbalanced its just that sin is unbalanced. in harshlands i see all the time spam in wc *making full sin squad nirv/fc/bh..* what ever D; its always either 333-5aps sin/bm squad mostly sin. i got turned away on most squads with my wiz. i have +10 gears and around -48% channeling. still sin's and bm's outdamage it easily. (cant get squads. except if askin faction/friends and not even then always. everyone looking for aps and/or sin).

    i dont mind that im also making 5aps bm. just 4 more lvls and its done.

    could say on my wiz i can pretty much own majority of bm's and barbs in pvp but almost never won against good sin. seekers are coming up as 2nd hardest after sin from melee classes.

    mainly because they have void step and they hit like 5x more dmg than bm's with skills. really even seekers zhen does like double/triple dmg compared to wizzies zhen(atm seeker is best aoe class for any situation).

    you can flame all you want. aps isnt unbalanced, stealth is. so PW just nerf stealth. its making this game unbalanced. after stealth came. you can solo all instances super fast n easy mainly because of it.

    just my 2 coins~

    edit: about post top of me from vyper dood. Archers can 1 shot anybody. I'd preffer doing that instead of having 5 aps...don;t u agree? Same for mages. R9 is trully magnificient ... wizzies cant 1shot. either can archers 1shot at end game... even thought you get around 20k matk quite easily with r9 wizzie weapon. you can get alot mdef with bm easily or with barb. and you will have around 15-30k hp. and if its TW you will have all buffs too.. so your wiz hits wont hurt so much..forgot apo pots too.. though wiz can use them too if theyre smart.. oh and genie skills D;

    lets say divine pyrogram. around 20k + (weapon dmg around uhh 2400-2600~when +12) so 300% * 2400 + skill dmg 4900~ = so you do around 32k dmg. fiiinee...

    my bm can get easily around 78-82% magic def with buffs. so basicly that shot will deal around 6k dmg to me. oh wait. i forgot to mention i have around 28k hp when buffed by barb too.. so lets see... about 4~5 of those hits to kill me... oh i forgot i have pots and charm too so ... no idea. you cant kinda rpk kill me... except maybe with on ur 12% crit chance. lucky crits few times in row to get past my charm and quickly go tru my hp before it refreshes... yeeaah... and ofc go tru my pots/genie skills too.

    on other hand with fists or r9 axes what so ever bm will hit ALMOST equal damage each hit on WIZ with end game gears + best shards etc... because ur pdef wont get so super high... oh on top of that you will only have around 13-14k hp non barb buffed and like 16-20k with buff.. so bm will hit around 4-6k to you too. make it crit.. 8-12k oh wait make it crit zerk 16-24k...

    see how it goes? oh wait make it sin. you wont even have that chance to hit him once or well actually even time to react before he stealth/ tele kicks ur face and kills you in few hits.

    but like i said genie/apo pots etc affect pvp/tw etc stuff quite alot... but in RAW power and damage dealing. wiz stays behind. same with archer. thats mainly because of aps and high lvl phys. weapons have bigger dmg modifier/ alot higher base dmg + ZERK. zerk is what makes phys deal more DPH than wizzies end game. dps wise aps always win.

    and before you go spamming DIPS!!!! okay okay.. with 80% magic def ur dips will deal only around 9k~(with r9 +12 weapon etc etc full mag build) and around 18k with crits. okay its nice but not enough to 1hit bm or barb especially if barb buffed/cler buffs. (of ir they use any mdef shards.. you can get 80% mdef without magic def shards...)
  • Sarrafeline - SanctuarySarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    omgwalloftextnecro

    ibtl
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • chaoticshellychaoticshelly Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2011
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