The lack of barbs probem.

2

Comments

  • Templar - Sanctuary
    Templar - Sanctuary Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Maybe if PWI make contest like few warsoul weapons for barbs who hit lvl 105 xD that would bring barbs back to fcc/bh etc..

    Daydreaming b:cute
  • LadyYueliang - Sanctuary
    LadyYueliang - Sanctuary Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Maybe if PWI make contest like few warsoul weapons for barbs who hit lvl 105 xD that would bring barbs back to fcc/bh etc..

    Daydreaming b:cute

    That would be interesting to see. b:pleased
    I hold all the keys to every realm... You killed me my love so in turn I shall be your reaper till the end of time.
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    If Barbs' aggro skills were boosted and they were able to HOLD aggro better, do you think there would be an incline in the number of Barbs actively playing? Lack of aggro = lack of barbs?
    (Note that I am not claiming this would fix all or even any problems this game has.)

    I can see that having major impact on the barb community. And would the random aggro bs be removed too, I could see it making barbs useful, as long as bosses hit bit harder, thus you really need good gear or barb. Unless barb can keep aggro, he aint tanking. If boss random aggros = barbs are useless as they cant really keep aggro, 5aps are better with random aggro. As long as sins with +5 gear can tank most things, there is no need for barbs. Would they need +8-10 armors, it would be clearly different story. Why I took sins example? Sins should have never been able to tank well with halfway decent gear, not with the dmg output they got.

    I`d rather see we get instances where barbs need decent armor to be able to tank(~+5), BMs bit more(~+6-8) and sins that(+10). Barbs also need to be able to hold aggro for this sort of dungeons to be useful so serious boost into aggro skills. No random aggro, that is honestly like direct blow against axe barbs. But for this we would need new endgame instance for gear, something that is worth the effort, we got warsong, it`s simply pointless to do, hence would we get as useless instance to do, it would change absolutely nothing. Why this many changes? If any aps can do it just as well as barb, who would take barb instead of dps?
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • LadyYueliang - Sanctuary
    LadyYueliang - Sanctuary Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Personally I would take a barb any day of the week over some lunatic with aps. To me spending time with my friends is more important then some op sin/bm. I like to talk with my squad.
    I hold all the keys to every realm... You killed me my love so in turn I shall be your reaper till the end of time.
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Personally I would take a barb any day of the week over some lunatic with aps. To me spending time with my friends is more important then some op sin/bm. I like to talk with my squad.

    Your friends cant have aps? No, that wasnt my point. Who would take no damage over good damage if there is no difference on the survivability of squad? That`s my point.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • LadyYueliang - Sanctuary
    LadyYueliang - Sanctuary Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Eh its just how I feel about things. I have a sin and she is good but its mindless point and kill.
    Why give a char skill set if they don't use it?
    I hold all the keys to every realm... You killed me my love so in turn I shall be your reaper till the end of time.
  • Korsov - Heavens Tear
    Korsov - Heavens Tear Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Predictably, this thread has primarily gone from "there's a shortage of barbs" to "QQ 5.0 aps." Bottom line is, even if all of the -int gear in the game was removed, barbs would still have trouble tanking, at least at endgame with well geared people. The rank sale has made it such that all these archers, psychics, and wizzies with rank 8 or 9, well refined gear would still take agro from most barbs. Unless the mechanics of agro generating attacks are significantly re-tooled (lol, like that will happen), the traditional axe barb is pretty much extinct as an endgame tank, whether aps gets nerfed or not.
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I would aggree with WnbTank's statement.

    This is how I see it from many people's perspective

    Tank with lower DPS [OR] Tank with higher DPS?

    I guess the answer is a no-brainer.

    I usually play a tank class in all MMOs but PW's tank class (BM and Barb) simply lack the lustre compared to the ones I've played before.

    Most tank classes Ive played had either the DPS or an edge over other classes or the game was designed in such a way, that made them a necessity for almost anything and everything (from lvling an alt to Zhenning or Instance running or Boss hunting). DDs could do it but not as effectively or as fast as having a tank present there. Also most DDs in the other games I played would die if the boss so much as sneezed on them.
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The basic Holy Trinity of MMORPG game-balance is Tank, Healer, DD.

    PWI used to follow this, but after handing out Jones Blessings and cheap high-end gear the Tanks couldn't hold aggro and thus couldn't Tank anymore, which left the game with only 2 pillars of the 3 pillar model.

    5.0 APS then went a step further by allowing 1 character to fulfill all 3 roles at once, but it did bring in a new kind of Tank who actually could hold aggro, so of course if you're a Barbarian and you've become irrelevant anyway it only would make sense to switch to 5.0 APS.

    So why are there no Barbs? Because there's no real point in being a Barb with the game currently balanced the way it is.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Its not a problem that barbs can't hold aggro. Its a matter that barbs do low damage.

    Its assume that a barb does 1 unit of damage.... while a bm does 10 units of damage. If a given boss is tankable by a bm... doing 10 units of damage. Why not just have 2 bms that does 10 units of damage each for a total of 20 units... instead of a barb/bm only doing 11 units (even if the barb did held aggro over the bm). Its just over all faster run if you have the highest dd force possible in squad.

    Personally... i welcome barbs in squad. But if i can tank the boss... i would rather the barb dd in human form or devour... instead of trying to tank the thing.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    My solution?

    USE A BM INSTEAD. There are very few instances where a tank BM build cannot tank something that a Barb could. FCC 75-85, maybe BH69, BH79... Not sure about anything else.

    Barbs really aren't NECESSARY for all that much. So many people have this stupid notion that they are. You don't NEED a Barb for BH59, and I'm tired of waiting for an hour for a Barb to tank BH59 when there's a wiz, veno, and BM already in squad that already can. I mean, WTF, my ARCHER can tank the bosses in BH59. =\ And with the fail barbs, regularly ends up doing so anyway.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Lyritha - Heavens Tear
    Lyritha - Heavens Tear Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    barbs were more around when they could profit from TW pay... now with the change shifted to mirages barbs can profit in other ways. A lot of them won't do much of anything unless it is profitable and given a lot of them have BM alts thanks to account stash gear sharing they are in nirvana more often lol
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    make platinum charms cost 1 gold
    make tripple-yummy-charms drop from tokens with a high rate


    disable charms for aps above 3.33 (they dont work but DO tick off the value maximum hp x aps :) )


    same for *character was in stealth mode within the last 15 minutes*



    problem solved
    i like potato
  • Pro_Ninja - Lost City
    Pro_Ninja - Lost City Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It's so funny to hear everyone complain about a lack of barbs for frost. I can tell you why people don't play barbs anymore. It's cause no one wants them anymore when they hit 100. Less then 50% of Nirvanna squads or BH 100 squads take barbs cause 5.0 BMs can tank just as well and the only reason anyone wants barbs are for their buffs. So I don't blame people for rolling barbs so people can use them till they hit 100.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    solution: give them a plat charm per instance. (even gold charms)

    Im sure you wont run out of barbs then.
    If i were a barb id hate to tank a squad for FCC grown newbies.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    A couple times I've had someone give me a gold charm for tanking FC. The guy's like "come tank FC, we'll give you a gold hp charm to cover your charm ticks"


    so then I went and did the FC uncharmed and sold the gold I got.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    barbs aren't rolled any more for the same reason wizards aren't- We're not as attractive choices to your brand new player as the other faster hitting/leveling classes.
    And even the few who do roll one just quit before hitting 60 because by then they're frustrated at the slow leveling.

    And old players don't make wizzy/barb alts because they know we're not good for very much. Wizards are good for a weekly even, and that's only if you're in a TW fac. Barbs are only good (at getting squads) until endgame.

    The fact of the matter is, barbs are obsolete for their intended purpose endgame. Everyone needs one till 100+, then they become painfully useless.
    And making their aggro holding abilities wont make them better for Nirvana. BMs obviously don't need barbs anymore to begin with because of bloodpaint, so why even let a barb come if they could hold aggro? They'd just be a gimped DD.
  • swgs
    swgs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It's so funny to hear everyone complain about a lack of barbs for frost. I can tell you why people don't play barbs anymore. It's cause no one wants them anymore when they hit 100. Less then 50% of Nirvanna squads or BH 100 squads take barbs cause 5.0 BMs can tank just as well and the only reason anyone wants barbs are for their buffs. So I don't blame people for rolling barbs so people can use them till they hit 100.

    exactly, I am a barb, I do not even log on any more. No one wants me any thing good.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I haven't seen a BM tank pole yet. I'd like to see a level 8x BM tank pole. Anyone?

    It has happened. Level 8x cleric, level 8x BM. It requires some solid gameplay (not amazing, just solid) on both tanking and healing, but it's not that rare.
  • Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide
    Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    eh, FC. at ur lvl everyone and their grandmas should be able to pull/tank fc.
    with the exception of the 7th boss perhaps

    plus no "qq my repairs, i want 500k per run"

    I have never and would never charge for my repair bill... The whole point people made barbs is they wanted to be a tank role I mean lets face it apart from the odd few who restat it's not like we play barbs for there awesome DD power. I dont get what you mean either about everyone and his mother should be able to tank at my lvl?... Do you work for PW CN by any chance?
    02/07/2011 - Lost paitence with PWI sold all my gear bought packs and wasted my coin till it was gone... goodbye PWI b:bye
  • L_y_n_x - Raging Tide
    L_y_n_x - Raging Tide Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Kind of funny to see a thread like this..When yesterday, I went to do my and my wife's fb79, and we got backup..We had 3 barbs in squad..Me, a lvl 98 and a lvl 101..We were actually saying in squad chat "And they wonder where all barbs are" b:chuckle

    Funny thing is though, is that at Hooli, I stole agro with one of my combo's (Flesh realm, double spark, devour and mire on genie), and both the lvl 98 and 101 turned human to DD..I was like "wtf ?"

    Edited : And no, didn't continue to realm..Just switched tactics to just devour and mire..Oh and to those saying sage barbs are going extinct, both were and i'm still undecided, lol
  • Fintan - Lost City
    Fintan - Lost City Posts: 1,245 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The basic Holy Trinity of MMORPG game-balance is Tank, Healer, DD.

    PWI used to follow this, but after handing out Jones Blessings and cheap high-end gear the Tanks couldn't hold aggro and thus couldn't Tank anymore, which left the game with only 2 pillars of the 3 pillar model.

    5.0 APS then went a step further by allowing 1 character to fulfill all 3 roles at once, but it did bring in a new kind of Tank who actually could hold aggro, so of course if you're a Barbarian and you've become irrelevant anyway it only would make sense to switch to 5.0 APS.

    So why are there no Barbs? Because there's no real point in being a Barb with the game currently balanced the way it is.

    I think you've hit the nail on the head. The one next to it would probably be other things in the boutique. Like tokens and hypers...

    It's OK, PWE, to want to make money. Hell, most of us want you to. Many of us even help you with it. Just make it worth our while to keep doing it instead of treating us like one-trick ponies. Respect us, and we'll respect you. Easiest way is to treat Genesis as a new beginning and "fix" the boutique. b:thanks
    [sigpic][/sigpic]
    MuSHRooMS - Lost City (currently inviting new members) b:victory
    WeAreMuSHRooMS.com
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    A couple times I've had someone give me a gold charm for tanking FC. The guy's like "come tank FC, we'll give you a gold hp charm to cover your charm ticks"


    so then I went and did the FC uncharmed and sold the gold I got.
    cant fool a good cleric lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • CJD - Heavens Tear
    CJD - Heavens Tear Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I will give you some hints why there is no barb (or almost none who wanna go with random squads)

    3/ woot you are lvl 100 very gratz! omfg you have spent a lot of money to have awesome gear! and lol nobody wants you in squad cause all the game is about aps aps aps aps mooooore aps and omg you cant tank from this freeky DPS!

    Here is my impression and i will be very honest saying im very sad about this. Barbs are useful but the game is definitely not for them (strange isnt it?)

    True..

    Here i am with a BH3-3 squad , and the sin complaining how poorly skilled the barb in the squad is ! and how he took aggro from a barb with +12 nirvana axes, seriously who cares ! high APS does the agro ping pong... and there we go...

    he wasn't a 'clwarb' , a tank build with 17k hp at level 100 with some decent gear. He is my friend so i don't have the trouble finding a barb for my instances! b:victory
    Girls are like phones...
    We love to be held... talked too..
    but if you press the wrong button you'll be disconnected! b:laugh
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It's so funny to hear everyone complain about a lack of barbs for frost. I can tell you why people don't play barbs anymore. It's cause no one wants them anymore when they hit 100. Less then 50% of Nirvanna squads or BH 100 squads take barbs cause 5.0 BMs can tank just as well and the only reason anyone wants barbs are for their buffs. So I don't blame people for rolling barbs so people can use them till they hit 100.


    Thats not really true lol. Barbs are indeed needed for pve at 100+ as well. Its often pretty hard to find a barb for BH100 actually.

    I run Nirvana with 1 barb pretty much every time i go on my 5.0s sin. Same for most players i know. You want attack/hp buff, Devour and someone who can run chests smoothly and grab boss if something goes wrong. I dont know any barb that feels offended getting invited for his buffs either. Isn't that better than having to tank the hole thing and paying the repair bill after.

    Its not that barbs aren't wanted/needed in endgame pve, the issue is that 5.0 Sins/Bms are more profitable in general compared to any other class. Half of PWI have rerolled to assassins by now. Way less people are playing venos/archers to for example, they rerolled to 5.0 BM/Sin as well. But you dont notice that, since you dont need them for BH/Frost. No one would QQ about lack of archers lol. You really only notice the barbs, since you need them to level up.

    But i understand how barbs can feel unwanted at 100+. I remember how i got spammed 50 times a day about Frost and BHs on my barb at 8X-9X. Than suddenly at 100+ the spamming stopped and i had to ask "anyone need a barb for BH100" if i wanted to get an invite. Kinda how it is for most classes really at 100+, you have to make a little bit of effort yourself if you wanna get stuff done. But if you're used to being extremely sought after i guess it might feel like no one needs you.
  • Seplavite - Archosaur
    Seplavite - Archosaur Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    yea i had the same kind of problem on my barb.. as soon as he hit 100 nobody wants a tank/sage barb for anything.. i tried gettin into nirvana squads and they find out im not demon 5aps i get booted..and when i run frost i get mocked for losing agro too 5aps sins and get called fail barb etc etc lmao..and this has affected a few close frineds of mine also which are high lvl barbs.. theres just nothin too do.. apart from restat go dex and buy sum deicides and then we can find squads...or just reroll as a sin cos everyone wants then lmao
  • Finrah - Sanctuary
    Finrah - Sanctuary Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    in short:
    There is not enought barbs to cover the need of ppl doing instances,they have to wait long time to do FCC or whatever.Sometimes ppl give up trying to make the squad and go doing something they didn't wanna to.

    Whats the solution?
    Tell your SOLUTION OPINIONS here.

    QQ somewhere else.
    if you are going to tell someones solution is bad, say why and then post your own solution and tell why yours is better.

    Example:
    Reducing prices of Charms by 80% !!

    This way a good number of BMs could also pull mobs on FCC and then we would have more barbs avaliable.
    Edit:btw the charms are just for taking large amount of mobs(cleric cant heal).tanking bosses is easy even for sins...just get a good(minded,not equiped) cleric.
    (i gave up a lvl90 veno in raging tide cus i didnt like killing mobs or TT when what i rly wanted was lvling up)

    (I gave up on my 97 veno because most of the time.. I heal or tank xD)

    Reducing the price of charms will also benefit other classes .. not just barbs :D So the GMs probably would think you're taking advantage of the lack of barbs playing to get charms to a lower price xDDD..

    What I know so far is that Barbs don't like playing barbs.. because their dmg out put is ****ty, and that their repair fees are high. If that's the case, we could increase the dmg output in their tiger form, as well as decrease the repair cost. That, would DEFINITELY, attract more people to play barbs, or replay their barbs.

    I've seen quite a number of barbs going sin because of what they can do... any barb can't keep aggro with a 3.33+ aps sin or BM or archer, and they end up tanking, not the barb. The barb gets annoyed trying to take the aggro as its supposed to be THEIR job, to keep the aggro, and make the cleric's life easier. However if it was a easy going squad with a couple of APS players then I guess that's ok since BP would do the trick.

    Therefore the solution would be:

    1. Increase damage in tiger form
    2. Decrease repair fees
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Silest - Sanctuary
    Silest - Sanctuary Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The lack of barb problem comes from 3 things;

    1. Bad clerics
    2. Rude players
    3. 5.0

    /thread
  • _Pale - Sanctuary
    _Pale - Sanctuary Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    If everyone hates to level barbs, hates to play a barb at higher levels, can't play a barb as a tank well due to the new classes and aps, why not give the new classes a chance and let the barbs and clerics die a silent death ( preferably to be replaced with a less mana hungry and faster equivalent in the case of clerics). Both clerics and barbs can already be replaced in most cases.

    If the new classes can become a replacement tank, not an "alternative tank", but a real effective high HP tank for all instances without the bad drawbacks that barbs have, better then the current barbs with better aggro skills and lower repair costs. Eventually barbs would die out permenantly and that might not be such a bad thing. Make a tanking class that people actually like to play. The lack of barbs is only a problem because there are no other real high vit tanks with aggro skills, not because there is a sentimental reason or great extra need for diversity or furryness in the game.
    I'm not there to make you survive in PWI, that's your job
    ** expected fail squad: express rule of thumb "you die by stupidity, you go to town" **
    ~Sanctuary~Cleric/Archer/Veno~Audeamus/Enelysion
  • Negreiros - Sanctuary
    Negreiros - Sanctuary Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    (I gave up on my 97 veno because most of the time.. I heal or tank xD)

    Reducing the price of charms will also benefit other classes .. not just barbs :D So the GMs probably would think you're taking advantage of the lack of barbs playing to get charms to a lower price xDDD..

    What I know so far is that Barbs don't like playing barbs.. because their dmg out put is ****ty, and that their repair fees are high. If that's the case, we could increase the dmg output in their tiger form, as well as decrease the repair cost. That, would DEFINITELY, attract more people to play barbs, or replay their barbs.

    I've seen quite a number of barbs going sin because of what they can do... any barb can't keep aggro with a 3.33+ aps sin or BM or archer, and they end up tanking, not the barb. The barb gets annoyed trying to take the aggro as its supposed to be THEIR job, to keep the aggro, and make the cleric's life easier. However if it was a easy going squad with a couple of APS players then I guess that's ok since BP would do the trick.

    Therefore the solution would be:

    1. Increase damage in tiger form
    2. Decrease repair fees

    ^^ good idea
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] i have seen PW alive...it was awesome xD