Myriad Sword Stance?

Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide
Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide Posts: 70 Arc User
edited March 2011 in Blademaster
is ti really taht useless cuz i only see Axe bm's and fist why so less sword?
and don't say Swords are weak cuz i kill all Axe bm's my lvl so?
Post edited by Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide on
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Yes it's really that useless and swords are weak.
  • chaoticshelly
    chaoticshelly Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    If you like swords, stick to them - but get axes as well (you won't be able to carry the highest for your level, though) for Heaven's Flame. I am one of the very few sword BMs left of my server, and I'm in no way useless in any squad. And as for the stance, its great and in no way useless in my humble opinion.
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    For a second there I thought this thread got closed for necro or something. You can carry both sword and axes of your level. There's nothing a sword can do that other weapon can't do better. Might as well wait for Seeker to use swords.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Swords are mediocre at best.
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  • Niteshadows - Harshlands
    Niteshadows - Harshlands Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    swords or blades r as good as any weapon a bm can use. imo it's best to use ur sword in combinations with the other paths to increase its effectiveness. but as a 88 with a blade i have to say they work for me. i still use axes mainly for fc, pvp or for aoeing mobs. swords and blades don't work for the troll who has yet to use them the right way.b:bye
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  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    swords suck MSS is a sexy PVE control skill never regreted leveling it to 10
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    People can forgive axe BMs sucky damage because they provide HF, which will amp the rest of the squads dmg. Kind of like bringing a veno just for the skill amp.

    If you want real dmg go fist with interval.

    Now, I'm not gonna say sword BMs suck. I'm just going to say they're mediocre. Their damage output is much less than a fist bms, and they don't provide HF. What they add to the squad is mediocre 1 person damage, and can debuff a bosses damage. Except most squads have a tank for a reason, they can easily handle the bosses damage, so really MSS provides not much more than 1 good attack.

    So their is nothing hugely wrong with sword BMs, they just don't add anything unique or special to the squad.

    As for MSS, its a lifesaver for crowd control in certain situations. In Warsong Metal when an entire group of mobs is accidently aggroed and they're unstunnable. In Delta, if bb goes down... Pretty much any "Oh ****, we're in trouble and need crowd control situation". But the amount when sword is the "best tool for the job" are about 1% of the time.

    My last little "quirk" with sword bm's is they tend to understat strength and overstat vitality. In a build that rarely tanks, and already has poor damage output it is made worse by the tendancy sword bms have to add alot of vitality. If they had statted those points into dex or strength they could have used all weapons anyways.
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  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Good job, you beat an Axe Bm your level.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide
    Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    so if i go Sword/Axe BM i wont be fail?
  • Kaste - Sanctuary
    Kaste - Sanctuary Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide wrote: »
    so if i go Sword/Axe BM i wont be fail?

    No. When you reach high level you might as well restat to fists, which shouldn't be a problem. Fists actually only get useful at 90+.
    Feel free to PM me for help.
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No. When you reach high level you might as well restat to fists, which shouldn't be a problem. Fists actually only get useful at 90+.

    I found fists more useful 90% of the time than any other weapon starting at only lvl 30. Dps isn't any better than axes or swords at this level but when a mob only needs a tap to die and you have to wait 1.20 seconds for your next swing while they hit you it really does mean the mob would have died faster and you would have taken less dmg if you were able to attack faster with smaller hits.

    Not to mention less mana costs...

    More chi for sparks....

    More chi for heals.


    Maybe thats just me. And as for being sword/pole/axe bm, you'd be more useful but still not what people are actually looking for. If I joined a squad and saw an axe/sword bm I'd sigh but I wouldn't complain. Just kind of a ~bleh~ build.
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  • Drigan - Raging Tide
    Drigan - Raging Tide Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I agree, i use MSS most for warsong. Its like this, a lot of Bms use HF in warsong and it can pull aggro. And if so, gratz u just have 6 metal mobs on u and unless ur well geared pot like hell mag marrow + BP, ull prolly die to mag dmg or charm ****. So if ur gonna aoe big and pull all of em onto u, u may as well reduce the dmg they do at the same time.

    Also i hear a lot of QQ that archers charmr ape in warsong cos of the aoe metal dmg + they BoA, guess who gets aggro after u lose it from HF? o.O They might appreciate the MSS

    Edit: Also note i use all weapons, in short
    fist = pro 1v1 DD and tanking
    sword = MSS sometimes
    pole = farstrike, meteor rush for spike dmg unless i got OP axes, glacial spike for 1v1 dropped TT99 charmed barb w/o sparking :D
    Axes = all skills >.>
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Only thing I use MSS for is harpy wraith. With 20k hp 5aps bloodpainted and charmed, virtually unkillable in pve. Though I suppose demon version is decent if roar is in cd in delta... But cant think of many instances an hf wouldnt keep you alive longer (by killing faster).
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  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    If you're in a squad with fairly average geared players against a difficult boss, then it's an amazing skill. There are certain situations, like that boss in 3-3 for example, when you end up with 3 BM's and it would be perfectly possible to coordinate an almost permanent MSS debuff. But no, either the other BM's don't have it maxed or don't have a sword or don't even have the skill.

    Pretty much all BM's do know nowadays is demon spark, auto attack, roar and a few axe aoe's. Sometimes they use HF and feel pro.

    MSS is a decent skill. Compared to 5.0 and demon/sage skills it's extremely cheap to get to 10. No excuse for any BM not to have it.
  • Kaste - Sanctuary
    Kaste - Sanctuary Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I found fists more useful 90% of the time than any other weapon starting at only lvl 30. Dps isn't any better than axes or swords at this level but when a mob only needs a tap to die and you have to wait 1.20 seconds for your next swing while they hit you it really does mean the mob would have died faster and you would have taken less dmg if you were able to attack faster with smaller hits.

    Not to mention less mana costs...

    More chi for sparks....

    More chi for heals.


    Maybe thats just me. And as for being sword/pole/axe bm, you'd be more useful but still not what people are actually looking for. If I joined a squad and saw an axe/sword bm I'd sigh but I wouldn't complain. Just kind of a ~bleh~ build.

    I love my Leg 60 fists, free infinite killing b:dirty
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No. When you reach high level you might as well restat to fists, which shouldn't be a problem. Fists actually only get useful at 90+.
    Kaste - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I love my Leg 60 fists, free infinite killing b:dirty

    Lol, guess that'd make them useful at least starting at level 60 then? b:victory
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  • Niteshadows - Harshlands
    Niteshadows - Harshlands Posts: 583 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    myriad is no way useless. it's mainly used for one shotting aa and la in pvp.
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »
    myriad is no way useless. it's mainly used for one shotting aa and la in pvp.

    * Face palm*
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    ...Demon GS hits like a truck. MSS is trash, its debuff is useless in PvP and its damage is about the same as GS when both lvl 11. 8504 damage add on for lvl 11 GS and 8820 for MSS. It's 100% weapon damage for GS vs 200% for MSS, but pole's got a lot higher base damage, unless you are using dual blades for skill spamming for some reason.

    Demon GS procs before hit lands like BIDS so it means that demon GS will crit (50 + your base crit)% of the time. If it does proc, everything you hit gets crit as well as your next 2 aoes, which also hit them during debuff. If the debuff applies before the hit lands, which I'm unsure if it does, GS will hit hader than MSS even w/o crit procing.

    So yes, case closed. GS is a better nuke than MSS and the debuff is also useful for HF immune bosses in Nirvana and CoA or stacking with HF during Rebirth runs. Yes, MSS is useless in every sense.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Got bored

    Assumeing 272 str fro GX and 200 dex for lunar claws 2x garnet gems lunar rings and +12 both weapons hitting as high as possible (demon versions)

    MSS with firelotus would deal 7719+(weapon+physadds x 2 = 4024)+8820 x2x2 = 82252

    GS with dance would deal 9843+ 2582+8504 = 83716

    so yes GS will do more if you useing a pole that refines as grade 14 +12

    under +10 blade does more (no i realyl am to lazy to post the second bit of math)


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  • Michael - Harshlands
    Michael - Harshlands Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I leveled to 100 back as sword/axe in the day and I have to say I dont regret it at all, by not using fist/axe I actually had a large amount of vit points all the way to 100, actually having more hp at 90 than alot of the newer BM's have at 100, (I had 7.1k unbuffed at 90 most fist axe hybrids hit 100 with 6.8k unbuffed). The ability to actually tank bosses while leveling was useful it allowed me to farm HH unlike most BM's of the time (hercs couldnt tank everything even back then and a decent vit BM could).

    However once you reach 100 you will restat fist for PvE as simply put at this time no other weapon compares to fist for pve play even if you dont put in all the coins for 5aps you still get a significant damage increase using decides with the regular interval pieces you will get, you can still use your weapon of choice in pvp if you want however you will find myriads debuff useless in pvp, thus meaning you are more likely to pick a different weapon with a more substantial effect on its ulti.

    I am hoping they considered the base damage on swords when they made seekers and their skill tree as if they didnt seekers will have the same problems as sword bms at higher levels which is simply that the damage output doesnt keep up with other weapons (Axes spike way way higher, and fists dps way way better)
  • CJD - Heavens Tear
    CJD - Heavens Tear Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Deaths_Devil - Raging Tide wrote: »
    so if i go Sword/Axe BM i wont be fail?

    Axe for a BM is a must, coz you would really need the use of Heavens Flame(HF) either in particularly TT/FF (level 60 and up)and in palace of nirvana(level 100+) or any other instance in common.

    MSS is a good skill a must to level,very effective on PvE.

    As for using the sword there is nothing wrong or fail w/e people call it, but axe and fist seem to be more useful in higher levels PvE / PvP.

    Generally BM have the opportunity to use 4 weapons Sword/Axe/Polearm/Fist (claw)
    I find all weapons has its own uniqueness, so I stick to all 4 weapons,but mainly the claw for high attack speed and axe to AOE and HF. I use sword when i need to MSS and polearm to attack far.
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  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ^^^^^^^
    Use fist for DD
    Use Axe for Aoe and amp
    Use Pole for 1 shot AA, stun, crit buff+full debuff
    Use Sword for nothing because a good BM should need to worry about a boss hitting hard.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Drigan - Raging Tide
    Drigan - Raging Tide Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Niteshadows - Harshlands wrote: »
    myriad is no way useless. it's mainly used for one shotting aa and la in pvp.

    Looking at the numbers yea myriad dmg looks kinda nice + 10m range. I suppose it could be used as a 1 shot with a decent sword. Then again.. invest in one good sword to use 1 skill that uses 2 spark to 1 shot ppl. Ill stick with a set of decent axes instead for drake bash/ HF b:surrender
  • LeeYung - Sanctuary
    LeeYung - Sanctuary Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    wow u guys are degrading a bms skill
    myriad is one of the best in my opinion. If u ever tanked warsoul metal as a 5 aps myriad is amazing especially in lower dd squads. Its not more of a dmg skill but a skill that saves ur butt
  • Constrnation - Dreamweaver
    Constrnation - Dreamweaver Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    myriad is a great skill
    i've been a sword bm till about... lvl 98 (i had good axes and hf, ofc <_>). although there aren't good lvl +95 swords, so now i'm fist/axe
    but swords are pretty good for pulling a mob back, lvl 39 and 49skills are almost the same than pole's
    best bms = the ones that can use every weap :p
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  • Nael - Dreamweaver
    Nael - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    LeeYung - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wow u guys are degrading a bms skill
    myriad is one of the best in my opinion. If u ever tanked warsoul metal as a 5 aps myriad is amazing especially in lower dd squads. Its not more of a dmg skill but a skill that saves ur butt

    Just get Bloodpaint...

    I only keep MSS in handy when I'm running with a generic Cleric with 3-4k hp at lvl 100...and even then it wouldn't be for me because I usually have BP and it could save my behind 5 times over while waiting for MSS to channel and cast.
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There are certain situations, like that boss in 3-3 for example, when you end up with 3 BM's and it would be perfectly possible to coordinate an almost permanent MSS debuff.

    Yes... b:sad

    I have a debuff like myriad sword stance (mine lasts 30 seconds but is weaker than myriad -- only 20% reduction), and I still have not learned to coordinate it with any blademasters in 3-3, partially because blademasters willing to use myriad have been so rare.
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes... b:sad

    I have a debuff like myriad sword stance (mine lasts 30 seconds but is weaker than myriad -- only 20% reduction), and I still have not learned to coordinate it with any blademasters in 3-3, partially because blademasters willing to use myriad have been so rare.

    I will occasionally use MSS on Illusion Lord, but not at the expense of losing triple spark. It's more important to me that the curse on the tanker is purified as well as damage output than the MSS, but MSS is actually useful here whenever my cloud eruption is ready.
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  • RoleModel - Lost City
    RoleModel - Lost City Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Question...Heaven's Flame inceases the attack of your buds or something like that, right? Glacial Spike Reduces enemies Physical and Magic Defense. That's the same thing as increasing your allies attack in my opinion. They do more damage as the end result, right?
  • Faeble - Heavens Tear
    Faeble - Heavens Tear Posts: 183 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Role.. you are aware Glacial is a pole skill, not sword? And here are the lvl 10 stats just so you know:
    GS: Hits all enemies in the area and weakens them, reducing their Physical Defense and Magical Defense by 50% for 10 seconds.

    HF: Leap onto the opponent using your mana to summon a blazing fire dragon dealing base physical damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 4135.7. Damages all enemies within 12 meters of the target and causes them to suffer 100% of that damage over 6 seconds.




    I personally won't touch swords, I find them useless, especially since EG release. If you wan't to be pure swords - go Seeker. And yes axe is a MUST.

    I personally am fist/axe at the moment, however, once I get to 99/100 area I will be investing in pole as well. Those are really the only branches I see worth it.

    And note: Going PURE sword (or even sword/axe) you probably won't be able to get into nirvana squads unless you have connections. At least on HT, you have to be 3.33aps or higher to get in to a nir squad. Which, is something you need fists for.

    Swords are cute if you're just doing it for play, but the best way to go is all weapons. You can still use your swords if you find it absolutely necessary, but at least it leaves you open to the weapons you will end up needing end game.

    As for beating an axe your level, if you two went at it with no skills, and depending on the skills used if they were, I can see that due to aps and damage done in the time frame. Axe is slower than sword. But fists are faster than both.
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