Death Throes

ihera
ihera Posts: 11 Arc User
edited February 2011 in General Discussion
I've noticed that recently the death throes are getting a little ridiculous. An enemy can get off one or two attacks after you've reduced its HP to zero.

I only really noticed this earlier today, when an Ossein Merchant, or however it's spelled, managed to get off two arrows on me five seconds after I'd reduced its health to zero. The second one flew out of its falling body and killed me. And my Ironheart Blessing can't keep up with that kind of **** really, when two 150+ damage shots are coming at me within two seconds. I can understand it happening while the HP is at full, or even when its at 000000.1, but when it should be dead? I mean really, I don't get to launch my attacks five seconds after the killing blow lands, I'm just dead. And as someone going for an almost Pure Magic build Cleric, it's reeeeeealy not the kind of thing I can afford to happen.l

....Yeah. Mainly a noob rant. Thoughts?
Post edited by ihera on
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Comments

  • Qingzi - Harshlands
    Qingzi - Harshlands Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Server lag. If you find a way to fix it, be sure to tell me.
  • anwynd
    anwynd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ive also noticed this well playing some of my low lvl alts earlier i was playing on my low lvl cleric killing some mellee mobs for a quest i noticed tht even if i can kill them before they get 5 meters close to me they still land a blow which was rlly geting on my nerves and its even more annoying with archer mobs for my caster classes and if it is lag it isnt on my end
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  • ihera
    ihera Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    If it is server lag, it isn't lagging on anything else. I have Best Performance on, there were hardly any players around, and it wasn't lagging on my attacks or item use. I dunno. It just seems kinda annoying that we're getting hit five seconds after the enemy dies. Especially as an arcane class. We're squishy.
  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    PWI's the only game I know of that has enemies getting off a last shot right when it dies. And it is fecking annoying.

    My theory is that it's to harm your HP to such an extent that you're forced to rely on charms to survive long grind sessions or whatnot.
    Some people risk to employ me

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  • Seylia - Heavens Tear
    Seylia - Heavens Tear Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, it's very annoying, but, since you're a cleric, you should be able to keep your hp up pretty well.

    Spam IH twice and attack, use plume shell, use whatever you have to your arsenal to keep yourself alive.

    Then maybe you won't die b:cute
  • Bellarie - Raging Tide
    Bellarie - Raging Tide Posts: 603 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    PWI's the only game I know of that has enemies getting off a last shot right when it dies. And it is fecking annoying.

    My theory is that it's to harm your HP to such an extent that you're forced to rely on charms to survive long grind sessions or whatnot.

    This. Death Throes are indeed annoying, and pots are useless on their own by the time you are high enough to use them.
    And then of course, ti was someone's bright idea to make MP charms set up so that they tick after using a single macro, or when coming out of fox form. 75% mp, seriously?

    It should be obvious that PWI wants us to rely on charms, and burn through them quickly so we are forced to buy more. Why else do you get crappy charms from quest rewards(With the exception of the Tidal Protection)?
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  • Qingzi - Harshlands
    Qingzi - Harshlands Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ihera wrote: »
    If it is server lag, it isn't lagging on anything else. I have Best Performance on, there were hardly any players around, and it wasn't lagging on my attacks or item use. I dunno. It just seems kinda annoying that we're getting hit five seconds after the enemy dies. Especially as an arcane class. We're squishy.

    It is some weird lag only affecting archers.

    Try out the archer class, for instance. Nothing more annoying than wasting arrows on dead mobs. Especially at low lvls.
  • Atria - Heavens Tear
    Atria - Heavens Tear Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    It's for wizzies too.

    Almost had a ragequit with Dustwraither Archers.
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'm pretty sure it's not lag. My spells will hit monsters that my pets have already killed. I've had pets take damage from a monster after they leveled from killing it. I've also seen what the op describes happen too.

    I'm pretty sure the desync is in the code, not lag. Some of the death throes I've seen don't make sense otherwise...
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    the damage dealed by the attack is calculated when the channeling ends /thread
    RL example: someone presses a weapon trigger. at the same time, u kill him. do u think that the bullet wont hit u? it's exactly the same with arrows.
    more magic stuff...well, it's magic.

    if you want, qq about how hard grinding is and how hard the mobs hit you.
    well, what do u expect, one-shotting mobs that hit u for 1/100 of ur hp like lvl1?

    if you cant do quests/grind without a charm... uh uh ok.
    but dont talk about how questing is better than bh/hyper fc ok?
  • Anjiru - Sanctuary
    Anjiru - Sanctuary Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    the damage dealed by the attack is calculated when the channeling ends /thread
    RL example: someone presses a weapon trigger. at the same time, u kill him. do u think that the bullet wont hit u? it's exactly the same with arrows.
    more magic stuff...well, it's magic.

    Except mobs fire their last shot even when they're stunned.b:surrender
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  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Anjiru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Except mobs fire their last shot even when they're stunned.b:surrender

    u mean that if i stun a mob and kill it it will hit me?
    or if i stun and one-shot it it will hit me?

    i have never observed something like that.
    on the other hand, i dont usually stun quest mobs.

    my guess is that the last sec the stun wears off and it hits you
  • Anjiru - Sanctuary
    Anjiru - Sanctuary Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    u mean that if i stun a mob and kill it it will hit me?
    or if i stun and one-shot it it will hit me?

    i have never observed something like that.
    on the other hand, i dont usually stun quest mobs.

    my guess is that the last sec the stun wears off and it hits you

    If a mob is stunned and you're within its hitting range, you'll get hit.
    And no, it's not the stun that just wears off. You can try it with a longlasting stun before you deliver a final blow.
    I don't have any good recording software unfortunately, otherwise I would.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]b:laugh
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  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Anjiru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If a mob is stunned and you're within its hitting range, you'll get hit.
    And no, it's not the stun that just wears off. You can try it with a longlasting stun before you deliver a final blow.
    I don't have any good recording software unfortunately, otherwise I would.

    are we talking about close range attacks or any kind of attacks?
    for example, if i hit 1 mob, then it hits me, then i stun and then kill it, according to ur view it will hit me? o-o
  • Anjiru - Sanctuary
    Anjiru - Sanctuary Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    are we talking about close range attacks or any kind of attacks?
    for example, if i hit 1 mob, then it hits me, then i stun and then kill it, according to ur view it will hit me? o-o

    Close range attacks and regular ranged attacks (but no magicb:chuckle).
    Going along with your example, yes it will hit you.b:surrender

    EDIT: I'm gonna try and download hypercam to record this, but I think the framerate will be too poor.
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  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Anjiru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Close range attacks and regular ranged attacks (but no magicb:chuckle).
    Going along with your example, yes it will hit you.b:surrender

    EDIT: I'm gonna try and download hypercam to record this, but I think the framerate will be too poor.

    rofl i just condirmed that. loool.
  • Slarti - Dreamweaver
    Slarti - Dreamweaver Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Anjiru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Except mobs fire their last shot even when they're stunned.b:surrender

    no, they don't, sorry.

    they can hit you before the stun takes effect by the mechanic that Thanos mentioned (mob had finished channeling but not casting, even melee attacks from mobs use this mechanic), or they can hit you after it wears off, but while your screen still shows the debuff (buff/debuff icons are notoriously wonky).

    Edit: wonder if the stun would stop the casting after channeling so casting continues when the stun wears off....

    @OP:
    Pure magic Clerics die a LOT at low levels (and a lot at high levels too without a lot of cash/grinding). I'm not gonna go quite so far as to call "fail" on the build, but I would suggest about 1-2 points of vit every 2 levels. Dead cleric can't heal anyone, and being squishy means leveling really slow if you are dying on quests all the time. At endgame you will be able to make enough coin for a reset note in a few hours at most and the extra survivability will help you get there faster. Guess I should shut up before this becomes a thread for the cleric forum.
    b:shutup
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    anyone else think this was gonna be a "QQ game is dead yo" thread? b:laugh
  • Anjiru - Sanctuary
    Anjiru - Sanctuary Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Slarti - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    no, they don't, sorry.

    they can hit you before the stun takes effect by the mechanic that Thanos mentioned (mob had finished channeling but not casting, even melee attacks from mobs use this mechanic), or they can hit you after it wears off, but while your screen still shows the debuff (buff/debuff icons are notoriously wonky).

    Yes, they do. Thanos just confirmed it too and I'm just done uploading some vids.

    Vid 1:
    BM using roar of the pride for a 4.2 sec stun. Mob gets killed right after, but is still able to hit me.


    Vid 2    :
    Sin using Deep Sting for a 5 second sleep. It makes sense that the mob wakes up after it gets hit, it's a sleep after all. However, that hit removed its leftover hp, so it should die right away.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]b:laugh
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  • Slarti - Dreamweaver
    Slarti - Dreamweaver Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    that's a pretty entertaining example of the channel/cast effect, those mobs had finished channeling an attack as they were stunned (guessing that channel is basically instant with melee mobs and the animation you see between attacks is the cast period)....

    a less funny one is the "1k glitch", getting killed again after dying and being teleported far from the range of the mobs. because some mobs had finished channeling but not casting as you were being ported out and the damage still had to register.....

    the funniest one I've seen so far (from my PoV anyway....) was in TW on my psychic, hitting a whole group of sins and bm's with a sparked aqua cannon after I was technically dead.... psy will had worn off so I sparked for another couple sec of immunity, got killed just as I finished channeling aqua cannon and then BLAM!..... 10k+ hits pop up all around little fishy corpse ;p
  • AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary
    AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary Posts: 555 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I've even had Spells + arrows hit freaking air, mob was already on the ground...dead... and i still "hit" it with damage.

    Same goes for some of my earlier deaths, I was already dead, yet mob continued to hit me once or twice.

    Where ever this is coming from or what ever causes it, It's annoying to all ****. but doesn't really matter cause no matter how much we QQ or discuss it, nothing will change. At least, i highly, highly doubt it.
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  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Slarti - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    that's a pretty entertaining example of the channel/cast effect, those mobs had finished channeling an attack as they were stunned (guessing that channel is basically instant with melee mobs and the animation you see between attacks is the cast period)....


    hmmm. i tried the following:

    stunned the mob. waited...no hit.
    stunned, waited a bit, killed it. got hit
    stunned, killed, got hit.

    my guess is that upon death, the mob is purified/purged (when a squad member dies, sometimes u see first his buffs disappearing and then his hp dropping to 0)
    then, he gets to hit u 1 time when it's not magical attack (magical attacks have chanelling)
  • Clandore - Lost City
    Clandore - Lost City Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Hmm... maybe we'll just have to think of death as the trigger mechanism for that one last inevitable attack? Like... Newton's 3rd law, the action of killing a melee range mob exerts the attack as reaction b:shocked
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Those archers are just drop shotting you guys.

    Saying that pun is quite embarrassing, but it just fits here so well.

    /codfan

    Jokes aside, I'd just say it's server lag. That, or you're over exaggerating.. After I reduced a mob's hp to 0, it has already vanished by 5 seconds.
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  • Kaste - Sanctuary
    Kaste - Sanctuary Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Well what I have sometimes, going to fb19 for example, gathering a ton of mobs. I use an Aoe which 1 hits all of them. The damage pops up with a little delay, as I think it has to calculate? I am not lagging at all, and my PC is very good. It just happens when I AoE many mobs at once. I think the same is with mobs? They would actually hit you, get stunned while casting a hit, finish their cast as soon as they get out of stun I guess.
    Feel free to PM me for help.
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  • Flyingkea - Dreamweaver
    Flyingkea - Dreamweaver Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Those archers are just drop shotting you guys.

    Saying that pun is quite embarrassing, but it just fits here so well.

    /codfan

    Jokes aside, I'd just say it's server lag. That, or you're over exaggerating.. After I reduced a mob's hp to 0, it has already vanished by 5 seconds.

    Well I know that I've certainly shot mobs well after they're dead (FC Heads anyone?) And theres been a couple of times when playing my cleric I've killed a mob and after it dies I get hit again (and since its typically an archer) and that has sometimes killed her. So no over exaggeration that I've noticed from my own experiences.
  • Amencat - Sanctuary
    Amencat - Sanctuary Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    hate that as well

    just wasting hp pots for a bug they are unable to fix,


    so many bugs in this game, those incompetent devs sucks
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  • Anjiru - Sanctuary
    Anjiru - Sanctuary Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Slarti - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    that's a pretty entertaining example of the channel/cast effect, those mobs had finished channeling an attack as they were stunned (guessing that channel is basically instant with melee mobs and the animation you see between attacks is the cast period)....

    That's not really the case. To prove this I stunned 2 qingfu and killed 1 first.
    Notice how the stunned qingfu manages to hit me when it dies, while the other one's still standing there stunned.
    Keep in mind qingfu are non-aggressive too. So going along with your logic, there's no "physical attack channeling" involved in this example. Yet the qingfu still manages to get a hit in.
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Jokes aside, I'd just say it's server lag. That, or you're over exaggerating..

    You should check out the vids I posted.b:surrender
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  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Anjiru - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That's not really the case. To prove this I stunned 2 qingfu and killed 1 first.
    Notice how the stunned qingfu manages to hit me when it dies, while the other one's still standing there stunned.
    Keep in mind qingfu are non-aggressive too. So going along with your logic, there's no "physical attack channeling" involved in this example. Yet the qingfu still manages to get a hit in.



    You should check out the vids I posted.b:surrender

    Yeah, when the game was review on IGN or one of those sites when it first got full release this was mentioned as a glitch in the game. It's a legitimate glitch.
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  • Fintan - Lost City
    Fintan - Lost City Posts: 1,245 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Yeah, when the game was review on IGN or one of those sites when it first got full release this was mentioned as a glitch in the game. It's a legitimate glitch.

    Not just that, it's been part of the game since before PWI was a twinkle in Beijing's eye. Imagine the fun of this "glitch" when playing on a server an ocean away with a population larger than any PWI server, as a brand new player of a squishy class (e.g. noob EP that doesn't know where to stick points at all and chooses none)...

    It's worse than rubberbanding for a brand new player. Perhaps that's why we see so few complaints about rubberbanding from new players? b:chuckle

    But yeah. It has always gotten worse when maintenance is skipped. So it's a combination of deliberate mechanics and server-side lag. (Potentially client/server communication, too, if you have a laggy connection.) I actually got hit a few times in the past couple days after the mob was fading from my screen. Talk about WTFing at things.

    Of course, you can never reproduce random things like "the mob tried to kill me after it had been dead for some seconds", so I can't get a capture of it, alas. Else I would so be filing a ticket since that's hideously broken if it's reproducible.

    Not so broken is being able to explain it away as something like: "The archer mob had the bowstring pulled taut when it was stunned. You killed it, it released the arrow, it managed to hit. Sorry." Annoying, yes. Explainable, potentially. Explicitly broken, no.

    And we played this game before there were charms available (some of us anyhow), so that's not the reason for the behavior, sorry... b:chuckle
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