The Commandments Of Cleric
Sylpharon - Lost City
Posts: 16 Arc User
I Begin this thread to write down these commandments; general knowledge about how to treat or to relation with a cleric, since there are too much misunderstandings out there and too prejudices.
I'll divide the thread in arguments, to better put them in a list to easily consult them:
Behavior Ways
Skills Ways
Party Ways
BEHAVIOR WAYS:
1) Cleric is a magic class, and so it doesn't have much phys defense or resistance to phys hits or much hps either. Naturally, it runs away when he sees dangerous menaces to its life, like phys mobs that charge him and so on. Then, don't call it coward or weak just because it is saving its own life.
2) For the same meaning as above, don't call it noob while it is running from a monster trying to save itself while you're hit by another one without receiving support. But think about how you can help and do that instead of complain.
3) Cleric has a good attitude to everyone, its a class that usually plays with others, so usually who desires to play it is a social person. But everyone can have a bad day, so don't ask things to him too frequently and consider that it could be tired or upset or anything else at the moment. It is a good manner to do not be too haunting.
4) Cleric is an expensive class, so if it lacks in something like equipments or skills that anyone should have at a certain level, don't consider it a bad cleric; it's probably following a scheme to invest better its resources. Otherwise, help it with suggestions.
5) Clerics are a strategical class; so they must use every skill or combo they have with judgement; therefore, don't complain about them winning only with certain skills combined well; build up a better fight style on yourself instead. For the same reason, don't lament about using certain combos or skills in a row; it's its strategy, not yours.
6) Cleric is helpful; it's not wise to mess with it since it is your - 90% exp lost buddy.
7) Don't offend a Cleric just because you kill it easily; don't continue to fight with it if you already defeated it and want to be pitiless. Remember that it doesn't have much hps and it isn't basically a war machine, so your victories over it doesn't make sense.
SKILL WAYS:
1) IronHeart Blessing is not the only healing skill. So if you see a cleric healing you with other healing skills and this prevent you to be dead or to go lower than half hps anyway, don't be insistent about using Ironheart obligatory.
2) Wellspring Surge is an istant heal, Ironheart stack over time. So don't confuse Wellspring with ironheart, since the first one will heal you immediately even if you're near to death. Ironheart would let you die when you have very few hps since it takes effect over 15 seconds, enough to let you take another fatal blow.
3) If a Cleric continues to use a certain skill instead of another one, you should consider efficacy, situation and MP cost. If a Cleric wants to save MP for later, it will use skills that can afford with this aim. But it will not let you die anyway, so don't worry. It is its job to keep you alive, but it can't ruin itself to do so.
4) Cleric has Revive. Having Revive doesn't mean that it will ress you everytime you'll die or that it have to revive you or that you can let your guard down because you have a resser back. You have to focus on beating and staying alive anyway, but just in case everything you do is unefficient (incidents happens) you can count on a ress. Nothing more, nothing less.
5) Cleric can't Purify you for every single debuff; unless it is demon, Purify costs Chi; than if it needs Chi for other skills, it will leave you debuffed. After all, you will not die by a Poison that disappear once the monster is killed. If it's urgent, let it know.
6) Cleric could use buffs properly; it means that using Spirit's Gift on a Physical class is avoidable. Therefore, don't complain about haven't received every buff, because other than Hp and MP regeneration rate, other buffs depends on situation (useless to buff the magic defense if you're going to challenge a physical monster and viceversa). Buffs costs MP, and Cleric could not use them just to save MP for later.
7) Cleric has debuffs too. If it can heal you and at the same time debuff the monster, don't complain about just healing. if it can attack too, don't complain. Cleric is versatile and a Great Cleric can Debuff, heal, DD and buff in a row without problems, so if it can combine skills to do so, let it do.
8) Regeneration Aura (BB) IS NOT OMNIPOTENT!!! Also, it can't be activated every time because of the double spark cost, so don't expect to see it so frequently in dungeons that don't deserve it or in situations in which isn't necessary. Because of this, stop asking for a bb every time you see more than two monsters coming to you. Instead, think about how can you take advantage from the situation.
9) Clerics has Magical and physical aoes too. So, it can participate to aoe assaults and help aoe users.
PARTY WAYS: coming soon
I'll divide the thread in arguments, to better put them in a list to easily consult them:
Behavior Ways
Skills Ways
Party Ways
BEHAVIOR WAYS:
1) Cleric is a magic class, and so it doesn't have much phys defense or resistance to phys hits or much hps either. Naturally, it runs away when he sees dangerous menaces to its life, like phys mobs that charge him and so on. Then, don't call it coward or weak just because it is saving its own life.
2) For the same meaning as above, don't call it noob while it is running from a monster trying to save itself while you're hit by another one without receiving support. But think about how you can help and do that instead of complain.
3) Cleric has a good attitude to everyone, its a class that usually plays with others, so usually who desires to play it is a social person. But everyone can have a bad day, so don't ask things to him too frequently and consider that it could be tired or upset or anything else at the moment. It is a good manner to do not be too haunting.
4) Cleric is an expensive class, so if it lacks in something like equipments or skills that anyone should have at a certain level, don't consider it a bad cleric; it's probably following a scheme to invest better its resources. Otherwise, help it with suggestions.
5) Clerics are a strategical class; so they must use every skill or combo they have with judgement; therefore, don't complain about them winning only with certain skills combined well; build up a better fight style on yourself instead. For the same reason, don't lament about using certain combos or skills in a row; it's its strategy, not yours.
6) Cleric is helpful; it's not wise to mess with it since it is your - 90% exp lost buddy.
7) Don't offend a Cleric just because you kill it easily; don't continue to fight with it if you already defeated it and want to be pitiless. Remember that it doesn't have much hps and it isn't basically a war machine, so your victories over it doesn't make sense.
SKILL WAYS:
1) IronHeart Blessing is not the only healing skill. So if you see a cleric healing you with other healing skills and this prevent you to be dead or to go lower than half hps anyway, don't be insistent about using Ironheart obligatory.
2) Wellspring Surge is an istant heal, Ironheart stack over time. So don't confuse Wellspring with ironheart, since the first one will heal you immediately even if you're near to death. Ironheart would let you die when you have very few hps since it takes effect over 15 seconds, enough to let you take another fatal blow.
3) If a Cleric continues to use a certain skill instead of another one, you should consider efficacy, situation and MP cost. If a Cleric wants to save MP for later, it will use skills that can afford with this aim. But it will not let you die anyway, so don't worry. It is its job to keep you alive, but it can't ruin itself to do so.
4) Cleric has Revive. Having Revive doesn't mean that it will ress you everytime you'll die or that it have to revive you or that you can let your guard down because you have a resser back. You have to focus on beating and staying alive anyway, but just in case everything you do is unefficient (incidents happens) you can count on a ress. Nothing more, nothing less.
5) Cleric can't Purify you for every single debuff; unless it is demon, Purify costs Chi; than if it needs Chi for other skills, it will leave you debuffed. After all, you will not die by a Poison that disappear once the monster is killed. If it's urgent, let it know.
6) Cleric could use buffs properly; it means that using Spirit's Gift on a Physical class is avoidable. Therefore, don't complain about haven't received every buff, because other than Hp and MP regeneration rate, other buffs depends on situation (useless to buff the magic defense if you're going to challenge a physical monster and viceversa). Buffs costs MP, and Cleric could not use them just to save MP for later.
7) Cleric has debuffs too. If it can heal you and at the same time debuff the monster, don't complain about just healing. if it can attack too, don't complain. Cleric is versatile and a Great Cleric can Debuff, heal, DD and buff in a row without problems, so if it can combine skills to do so, let it do.
8) Regeneration Aura (BB) IS NOT OMNIPOTENT!!! Also, it can't be activated every time because of the double spark cost, so don't expect to see it so frequently in dungeons that don't deserve it or in situations in which isn't necessary. Because of this, stop asking for a bb every time you see more than two monsters coming to you. Instead, think about how can you take advantage from the situation.
9) Clerics has Magical and physical aoes too. So, it can participate to aoe assaults and help aoe users.
PARTY WAYS: coming soon
Post edited by Sylpharon - Lost City on
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Comments
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Sylpharon - Lost City wrote: »
4) Cleric is an expensive class, so if it lacks in something like equipments or skills that anyone should have at a certain level, don't consider it a bad cleric; it's probably following a scheme to invest better its resources. Otherwise, help it with suggestions.
That depends.I would personally expect a cleric having decent gear for their level.If you can't afford buying molds or wining instances to make sure you get them in BHs, you can always farm TT for gear.And if you're below level 70 (and not able to wear TT70 yet) 3 star gear is just enough.If you're lucky enough they can drop in your inventory in your FB or BHs.You can also find them in AH at cheap prices.
As for skills, well, I confess there were some skills I maxed a bit later than I should have and I still have a few offensive skills below lvl 10, but leveling your buffs and heals is always a priority imo, especially IH.Sylpharon - Lost City wrote: »
1) IronHeart Blessing is not the only healing skill. So if you see a cleric healing you with other healing skills and this prevent you to be dead or to go lower than half hps anyway, don't be insistent about using Ironheart obligatory.
Sure, it's ok if you throw a wellspring instead of IH when fighting a mob, but at bosses it's a must b:surrenderSylpharon - Lost City wrote: »
5) Cleric can't Purify you for every single debuff; unless it is demon
I think that's false.I never seen a debuff not being able to be purified and no, I don't have the demon version.
And about that chi cost, there are always apothecary potions that give you chi instantly.Cloud eruption (genie skill) helps too.Also, 2-3 IHs give you just enough chi for a purify.Sylpharon - Lost City wrote: »
1) Cleric is a magic class, and so it doesn't have much phys defense or resistance to phys hits or much hps either. Naturally, it runs away when he sees dangerous menaces to its life, like phys mobs that charge him and so on. Then, don't call it coward or weak just because it is saving its own life.
2) For the same meaning as above, don't call it noob while it is running from a monster trying to save itself while you're hit by another one without receiving support. But think about how you can help and do that instead of complain.
When I get aggro (well, yea, accidents happen), the first thing I think of is running to the tank or a DD to get it off me.If it's physical I put on plume shell to keep me alive while the squad takes care of it.
If a cleric runs around like a headless chicken and runs too far from the squad when they're in this situation then, um... b:surrender0 -
Soira - Raging Tide wrote: »That depends.I would personally expect a cleric having decent gear for their level.If you can't afford buying molds or wining instances to make sure you get them in BHs, you can always farm TT for gear.And if you're below level 70 (and not able to wear TT70 yet) 3 star gear is just enough.If you're lucky enough they can drop in your inventory in your FB or BHs.You can also find them in AH at cheap prices.
As for skills, well, I confess there were some skills I maxed a bit later than I should have and I still have a few offensive skills below lvl 10, but leveling your buffs and heals is always a priority imo, especially IH.
Infact there's not a bad point on this; just that someone could follow is own scheme instead on leveling skills that are common known as a must have. Then, the temptation is to consider it a bad cleric, but it's just a different way to improve it. As for equips, same.
Sure, it's ok if you throw a wellspring instead of IH when fighting a mob, but at bosses it's a must b:surrender
Well, i experienced that unless bosses destroy your hp bar with one or two hits, you can save MPs spamming wellspring as long as the tanker can handle the damage (aka he can take some hit before reaching 75% of hp lost; after all, they have some defense too). It depends on the tanker too. If a Psy tanks, you should use ironheart, but with barbarians, you could use wellspring too.
I think that's false.I never seen a debuff not being able to be purified and no, I don't have the demon version.
And about that chi cost, there are always apothecary potions that give you chi instantly.Cloud eruption (genie skill) helps too.Also, 2-3 IHs give you just enough chi for a purify.
Here i was talking about the impossibility to use Purify when you have no Chi. I'm referring in the case in which you have to earn Chi, but a Purify spammed consumes it. Of ourse there are skills and pots for that, but i'm talking about managing it in natural conditions.
When I get aggro (well, yea, accidents happen), the first thing I think of is running to the tank or a DD to get it off me.If it's physical I put on plume shell to keep me alive while the squad takes care of it.
If a cleric runs around like a headless chicken and runs too far from the squad when they're in this situation then, um... b:surrender
I'm talking about what i've talked. Many squad members don't try to take aggro from you, not thinking that if they attract the monster on them, you can heal them without fear, preventing the healer to die. Even a mage could do that without fear, since you can heal him without problems. But sometimes even after 20 seconds (plume shell) they don't think about their healer that is trying to save himself.0 -
I feel like a wild animal now..b:thanks0
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Not bothered doing the actual quote thing, so I copy and pasted:
5) Cleric can't Purify you for every single debuff; unless it is demon, Purify costs Chi; than if it needs Chi for other skills, it will leave you debuffed. After all, you will not die by a Poison that disappear once the monster is killed. If it's urgent, let it know.
Poison does not disappear once a mob is killed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sylpharon - Lost City wrote: »I'm talking about what i've talked. Many squad members don't try to take aggro from you, not thinking that if they attract the monster on them, you can heal them without fear, preventing the healer to die. Even a mage could do that without fear, since you can heal him without problems. But sometimes even after 20 seconds (plume shell) they don't think about their healer that is trying to save himself.
Don't you think you're exaggerating a bit? One of the squad's role is to keep the mobs and such away from you. If that doesn't happen, then the squad fails and you're free to leave. But yeah, I understand the mage sometimes. You know, they're almost as squishy as we are, can't they distance themselves from mobs sometimes? b:surrender
Or even better, watch out for aggro, if they don't aggro every single mob, let them die, it's THAT simple
And LOL at the wild animal comment, but yeah, I kinda had the same feeling xD0 -
about the heal agro.
just squad with an archer (a good archer) and let the archer be your body guard.
we are great when it comes to that, we have a speed buff so you can keep up and a fast ranged attack so we can reach out and steal agro if you get it. personally i feel proud if i can steal all the agro in a squad wipe and let the cleric get away.
once i managed to tank a boss for long enough after the tank died for the entire rest of the squad to be resurrected without the cleric taking a single hit.
just saying clerics, if you have trouble with squad wipes, squad with an archer0 -
about the heal agro.
just squad with an archer (a good archer) and let the archer be your body guard.
we are great when it comes to that, we have a speed buff so you can keep up and a fast ranged attack so we can reach out and steal agro if you get it. personally i feel proud if i can steal all the agro in a squad wipe and let the cleric get away.
once i managed to tank a boss for long enough after the tank died for the entire rest of the squad to be resurrected without the cleric taking a single hit.
just saying clerics, if you have trouble with squad wipes, squad with an archer
See? That's the kind of ppl I LOVE squadding with ^^0 -
b:shocked wall of text0
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I think one of the hardest things for those who have not played a cleric is understanding heal aggro / how to tag so the cleric doesn't get heal aggro.
I played as a bm before jumping over to cleric for tries. There are many low levels who don't understand that you either have to tag all mobs attacking in the area or AoE them if you can. (I consider "tagging" as hitting one at a time, for those who don't have AoE) And then wonder why the cleric is spamming IH on himself and not the one tanking. While, yes, a cleric can res you and you may lose some exp, think about the cleric. 50k for res scroll (which imo EVERY cleric should have at least 1 on them) plus all their exp loss. Much better for the tank to die saving the cleric, then the cleric saving the tank.
Though, from the BM's view: I try my hardest not to blame clerics for doing "stupid things" (that's one reason I made a cleric to see how hard it really was) But there are times when they need to get priorities straight. Yes, they can attack. I love it when a cleric can heal AND help attack. Shows skill to me. However, I remember running one group with TWO clerics.. and they were both too busy attacking to heal. Remember, Clerics are healers before they are attackers. I, as a BM, do have my heal.. however, it costs me a spark, and has a cooldown. (I was also charmed.. is the sad thing)
I have only "blamed clerics" twice. One was the above said, another was because in 59 he was auto pathing... right into the mobs. That was straight up his fault. Luckily high level bm with us has a pole for range, and got the mobs off him. But had he died.. it would have been his fault... don't autopath in instances unless you know for sure there are no mobs where you are pathing to -_-"
Side note about gear: I personally for my cleric, don't have good gear, however have top weapon. Seeing as my cleric is support and then DD's on the side, and healing/attacking goes by weapon. Sure, I die more easily with lesser protective gear, but being a cleric, seeing as I don't tank much, I can get away with it until i get higher up and can afford for better things. I personally recommend better weapon over gear. But to shard gear with pdef when possible.
Again, this is all based on MY personal experiences and what I have seen happen and my opinions.0 -
I think one of the hardest things for those who have not played a cleric is understanding heal aggro / how to tag so the cleric doesn't get heal aggro.
Meanwhile, note that a good cleric can survive a bit of heal aggro. If you use plume shell (and if you have leveled it) when you start healing in iffy situations, you can deal with small bits of lag and situations where people do not grab everything.
And if they will not get the aggro off of you, they do not deserve heals.0 -
just squad with an archer (a good archer) and let the archer be your body guard.
we are great when it comes to that, we have a speed buff so you can keep up and a fast ranged attack so we can reach out and steal agro if you get it. personally i feel proud if i can steal all the agro in a squad wipe and let the cleric get away.
once i managed to tank a boss for long enough after the tank died for the entire rest of the squad to be resurrected without the cleric taking a single hit.
just saying clerics, if you have trouble with squad wipes, squad with an archer
+1 to that. My cleric is married to an Archer, and we're a dream team b:victory[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I don't come with a manual, just some limits, but maybe some clerics do.
Be considerate and play like a team and we got your back; that sounds sufficient to me in most cases.
preaching and micromanaging are in general not well liked and I have a feeling these commandments, although probably ment to dispel this behaviour, fall under that same category. Also, "commandments" or better yet "The Commandments" might be a rather presumptious title for the way you feel things should be.I'm not there to make you survive in PWI, that's your job
** expected fail squad: express rule of thumb "you die by stupidity, you go to town" **
~Sanctuary~Cleric/Archer/Veno~Audeamus/Enelysion0 -
Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »Meanwhile, note that a good cleric can survive a bit of heal aggro. If you use plume shell (and if you have leveled it) when you start healing in iffy situations, you can deal with small bits of lag and situations where people do not grab everything.
And if they will not get the aggro off of you, they do not deserve heals.
Oh, I totally agree. I can and have survived by IHing myself, using SW if totally needed, and plumeshell. It's just a pain when it could have been avoided in the first place. And then they wonder why I'm not healing them ... because I'm trying to survive and they don't look around them to keep tabs on where and what the rest of the squad is doing.
I know once in BH51 (I was on my bm for this) we had a tank who didn't understand that he needed to get aggro on all mobs. And kept snapping at the cleric because he had to heal himself. He would aggro 3 mobs, only attack one. So if cleric healed. Cleric got attacked by both. (And for a BM, it's a bit harder to get aggro off another vs being a barb, I could do it, but the cleric did suffer an extra hit or so, then if the Barb had just done his job and part of this is due to having a short range as a bm with a cleric running away -_-' )0 -
_Pale - Sanctuary wrote: »preaching and micromanaging are in general not well liked and I have a feeling these commandments, although probably ment to dispel this behaviour, fall under that same category. Also, "commandments" or better yet "The Commandments" might be a rather presumptious title for the way you feel things should be.
This.
Did you even think about what the term 'commandment' meant when you made this post? Here's a hint: the root word is command, which can only be done by those with absolute authority over the subject. Do you really think you have that? If you don't, why use the term? If you do, what makes you so special? Are you seriously so narcissistic that you think yourself a god in these matters?0 -
Sylpharon - Lost City wrote: »4) Cleric is an expensive class, so if it lacks in something like equipments or skills that anyone should have at a certain level, don't consider it a bad cleric; it's probably following a scheme to invest better its resources. Otherwise, help it with suggestions.
2) Wellspring Surge is an istant heal, Ironheart stack over time. So don't confuse Wellspring with ironheart, since the first one will heal you immediately even if you're near to death. Ironheart would let you die when you have very few hps since it takes effect over 15 seconds, enough to let you take another fatal blow.
In response to 4) Clerics with **** gear can't survive as well, can't heal as well and are more likely to die when the squad needs them most, especially in higher lvl instances like FCC. Same thing with skills. During the lower lvls clerics may be able to get away with some essential skills unmaxed, but there's only so long before the **** gear and lack of skills will start to catch up to you and make things harder. If your gear and unlvled skills prevent you from doing your job, then something has to be done. Besides, clerics aren't always very expensive. Mana costs drop starting form lvl 75 when you get to use herb yuanxiaos and repair costs are still generally low.
In response to 2) you can actually use wellspring AND IH if you're near death. A good combination I've found is wellspring -> 1-2 IHs -> Wellspring -> 1-2 IHs, etc. The wellspring gives time for the IH to work, and when the IH gets working you may be able to fight back or run away (unless the mob/boss two shots you).Syredrae ~ lvl 100 Cleric (main character)
Auryl ~ lvl 100 Venomancer
Mainas ~ lvl 80 Barbarian
Suirune ~ lvl 2X Psychic0 -
Here is the best way to stay alive. I never party with fishies as they will get you killed. They tend to draw aggro away from the barb or bm and cant take the hits and expect you to heal them while running away from the boss or mob. Or they think they are tanks and get the whole party killed yes I have seen this happen.
Best rule for clerics NEVER party with fishies EVER.0 -
this reads like it ran through a translator...
couple note:
wellspring isn't an instant heal. yeah it heals all at once. but it still has a 1.5 sec channel and a 1 sec cant. thats 2.5 second. alot can happen in that time.
cleric have bad p def yes. but we have wonderful m def.
and unlicke every other caster we CAN tank hits but staking ironheart on ourself.
just today i tanked deepblue scavenger on my cleric. alone at lvl 70
i have about 2.2k hp and i was taking about 1k damage per hit
but stacking ih was enough to overcome that and give me enough time to throw 1 or 2 attacks in b4 i had to ih again
And clerics have decent dd skills as well.
granted we arn't wizards or psy, but we can attack magic immune mobs with plume shot and razor feathers. and heal ourselfs during a fight.
And actually on our own we are pretty much on par with wiz and psy. becuase we have spirits gift. granted they out dd us again once we buff them with it but on our own we are pretty decent.
im pure magic btwKilling level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.0
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