Veno Phoneix skill?

LilithPaige - Dreamweaver
LilithPaige - Dreamweaver Posts: 127 Arc User
edited January 2011 in Venomancer
Sorry I know how many times this has been posted... but I have just paid total of 150M b:shocked for my Phoenix, took me a year! My only use for Phoenix is TWs, I just use Herc for most other things. What pet skill should I add? Flesh Ream / Bleed / something else?
I dont really understand the differences and I dont know what to do b:cry some advice would be awesome please
Post edited by LilithPaige - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • LilithPaige - Dreamweaver
    LilithPaige - Dreamweaver Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    sorry I shouldve added some more info, Im going for lvl 100 Rank 8 equip (rank 9 if I can ever afford it), atm TT90 AA, pure mag, I went demon >< but I am changing to sage once I complete culti 100.
  • Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
    Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,681 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Flesh ream and Bleed are the same , thge proper name is Flesh ream , but it's easy to confuse when some various trolls here mess the names.

    For PVP Flesh Ream , lvled to 5 is a must
    as for PVE , i would like to know if Bash would give some better results (less cooldown) but im not sure.

    Overall Flesh ream is a valid choice , and gratz on ur nix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    <--- MALE Veno ..... Moved to G W 2 or maybe not completely , don't know ...... PW addiction
    {That TT xbow chain is one that describes someone's bowel movements after having too much spicy food. A loud **** (Thundercrack), then a burning sensation (Flash Fire), followed by an explosion of multi-colored poo-confetti (Blinding Radiance). Excellent...} By Quilue
  • LilithPaige - Dreamweaver
    LilithPaige - Dreamweaver Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    lol, really? Doh I feel like an idiot now! I really thought they were different things...
  • Waterfal - Sanctuary
    Waterfal - Sanctuary Posts: 2,723 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    flesh ream is the skill, bleed is the added effect :P bleed is a must for pvp. Since you want to get rank 8 I assume you will pvp.
    For PVE I think fleshream will work too on a nix since everything will go down quickly anyway :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks Silvychar for the awesome sig :3

    Characters:
    waterfal - lvl 90 demon ferrari veno
    Hazumi_chan - lvl 9x sage seeker
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    When you finish your Chrono culti, I don't think you'll have much use for Flesh Ream. Because of Nix's atk rate: bash isn't good for much either. I'm toying with the idea of Pierce or Howl. Pierce could come in handy for soloing Xenospace Drake but not sure if it's worth the price for that.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I got fleshream for territory wars (we did two, they were fun.)

    But for PVE it's usually slower than just letting the nix use normal attacks. Bash also suffers this. The one major advantage of an attack skill is that it has a slight range and thus can work even when the bird gets stuck on terrain. (Though pounce works for this too, its cooldown is far too painful and its 'ohcrapsaveme' effect is far too nice to waste when grinding.)

    A debuff I can see the point of - it might also be interesting to try threaten or shriek as a defensive thing if you want to use it on big bosses.

    The only other skills I've seen sugested have been the life-stealing one and the sacrifice one. Both are rare and I've never seen them used so have no idea whether they're any good.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    The only other skills I've seen sugested have been the life-stealing one and the sacrifice one. Both are rare and I've never seen them used so have no idea whether they're any good.

    I took Sacrifice off my pet. Couldn't find use for it. My guess is that those skills suck or we'd hear people bragging about them.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Aijou - Harshlands
    Aijou - Harshlands Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Wait.
    What's wrong with demon?

    && flesh ream all the way for it's PVP bugged-ness.
  • Aniella - Harshlands
    Aniella - Harshlands Posts: 729 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Yea, bleed/flash ream best..but if ur pure mag veno w 10k+ mag atk, its also worth put howl in it :P XD i like 2 have both in mah pet :o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
    Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL
  • LilithPaige - Dreamweaver
    LilithPaige - Dreamweaver Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Wait.
    What's wrong with demon?

    && flesh ream all the way for it's PVP bugged-ness.


    nothing is wrng with it, it has many advantages, but I have meet a few more sage venos since I went demon and they seem to be better than me with bosses, I like sage Amp and Sould degen
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Yeah. A lazy sage who throws NOTHING other than soul degen and amp will get 40% of a bosses hitpoints.

    Throw in a pet and ironwood and we're close to 50%. It's astounding!

    But co-operating with a demon; your ironwood, your amp during our cooldown, your astounding wood damage debuff...
    I'm not sure there'd be any hitpoints left for the rest of the party :)

    Sorry, that's way off topic. Just partnered with a demon properly for the first time as a sage, and loved it.
  • LilithPaige - Dreamweaver
    LilithPaige - Dreamweaver Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    everyone has their own veiw points and yours are as valid as mine, however as a demon veno, I have quite a few demon skills, I just dont see it being as good as Sage venos I have came across, the Ironwood is great but with only a 20% sucsefful hit rate, it doesnt work that often, Im the only person in the squad who gets any advantage from the wood damage debuff and yes it is good but I dont think its the best skill ever and the increased length in Amp is great but I dont think its as good as the stronger amp... maybe once I gt a bit higher and get my rank 8 and a so a better wepon (using denied fate atm) I will find demon better but from what i have seen I prefer sage.
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Well, speaking as a sage veno, I think a demon veno is the person I'd most like to have in a squad with me.

    You're not going to mess up the aggro, your skills complement mine... you'll just be generally lovely. And as long as I ironwood first, then if yours misses it doens't matter much.

    A second sage would be less good - we can keep amp up 100%, but increased time on ironwood is basically wasted.

    But yes, I personally prefer sage to demon for myself. Good luck to you on whatever you do.



    Back on topic - whilst sacrifice etc. may be not much use on a nix, it may be worth considering the herc buffs (if you can find them, of course).
    Reflect on a nix would be a truly astounding total dps, or the defence buffs would make it a truly scarily competent tank. Last time I saw the maths, its mdef won out over the herc (though even with blassing of the pack it doens't have the hitpoints)
  • LilithPaige - Dreamweaver
    LilithPaige - Dreamweaver Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    How good is the stun skill on Phoenix? I was considering replacing that with refelct. In most TWs a lot of people know to press the little icon and to kill the veno, not the pet, but there are many people out there who wont do it or just dont have time... If they hit my Nix and she has reflect I think it could all end badly for the other person, well thats my hope anyway! lol
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Pounce is a very short stun - but it also comes with increased attack rate and, of course, it's one of the very few stuns we get.

    I'd be very very unwilling to part with it on a nix. It saves my donkey way too often in PVE. But then, I don't pvp much; it seemed to work nicely the couple of times I did - stun a barb long enough for me to get close and purge them, or stun a cleric long enough for ironwood to land, followed by lucky scarab and hopefully by then the nix has finished the job.

    Of course, it doesn't work against an archer that know what they are doing - you're dead long before the nix gets in range to stun them. But then nothing much works against that :)
  • Jadsia - Lost City
    Jadsia - Lost City Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    How good is the stun skill on Phoenix? I was considering replacing that with refelct. In most TWs a lot of people know to press the little icon and to kill the veno, not the pet, but there are many people out there who wont do it or just dont have time... If they hit my Nix and she has reflect I think it could all end badly for the other person, well thats my hope anyway! lol

    I've noticed that my nix rarely misses with the stun. I send the nix to stun at the same time l launch a myriad rainbow and lucky scarab for another 3 second (sage) stun.

    If there was one skill I would replace with reflect it would be Blessing of the pack since the nix is melee. More DD from the reflect would be nice.
    I **** bigger than you...

    Shut up and play the game.....Damn
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I added Strong to mine as the 4th skill, but I'm strictly PvE. I've been toying with the idea of replacing Pounce with Protect, but haven't yet encountered a situation which really needed it.
  • Shneibel - Harshlands
    Shneibel - Harshlands Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    guess i am the only one actually though about add bash to the nix since the flesh ream skill is fix.

    according to ecatomb.net skill info, both deal 200% pet dmg.

    bash CD is 8 and flesh ream is 15, i rather have 2x instant burst than DoT, if really need DoT, veno do got 2 cast skill and it can cover the lost some how, that is what i got in mind
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    guess i am the only one actually though about add bash to the nix since the flesh ream skill is fix.

    according to ecatomb.net skill info, both deal 200% pet dmg.

    bash CD is 8 and flesh ream is 15, i rather have 2x instant burst than DoT, if really need DoT, veno do got 2 cast skill and it can cover the lost some how, that is what i got in mind

    I think bash was already mentioned as being bad on a Nix because of the Nix's atk rate vs the time it takes to execute bash.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    tweakz wrote: »
    I think bash was already mentioned as being bad on a Nix because of the Nix's atk rate vs the time it takes to execute bash.
    It was mentioned but not really explained in this thread.

    A pet skill will prevent the pet from making an attack for ~1.5 sec before the skill fires. On a magmite with a 0.6 atk/sec speed (1.67 sec per attack), this means to use the Bash skill you're giving up slightly less than 1 regular attack's worth of damage to gain 2 regular attack's worth of damage. So Bash results in a net gain of 2 - (1.5/1.67) = 1.1 attack's worth of damage every time it fires.

    But the Phoenix's high attack rate (1 atk/sec, 1.0 sec per attack)) means it gives up 1.5 attacks worth of damage per Bash. Consequently, Bash results in a net gain of 2 - (1.5/1.0) = 0.5 attack's worth of damage. So Bash isn't as useful a skill on a phoenix as it is on other pets.

    In terms of raw damage:
    Bash = net extra 0.5x base damage every 9.5 sec. 0.5 atk per 9.5 atk = 0.5/9.5 = 5.3% increase.
    FR = net extra 1.5x base damage every 16.5 sec. 1.5/16.5 = 9.1% increase.*
    Pounce = 6.25% increase over 60 sec

    Under the influence of Pounce (25% attack speed increase for 15 sec):
    Bash = 2-(1.5/0.8) = net extra 0.125x base damage ever 9.5 sec. 0.125/9.5 = 1.3% increase.
    FR = 3-(1.5/0.8) = net extra 1.125x base damage every 16.5 sec. 1.125/16.5 = 6.8% increase.*

    *The bleed portion of Flesh Ream's damage doesn't seem to work like other pet skill damage. It seems to be modified by attacker/defender level in some as-yet-to-be determined fashion. So against bosses you should expect to get less than the above-listed damage increase. Still, in general, it looks like FR will yield more DPS than Bash.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    For a debuff, howl. Reduce targets MDef so you can hit it harder?

    Your nix isn't gonna be soloing it, is it? I mean, I suppose it could be... But if you're using it as an additional DD on a WB, it would be a very useful debuff to have.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level