At least we are needed in GV...
Arenaceous - Lost City
Posts: 632 Arc User
... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow9y7dzH5P8&feature=player_embedded
Good thing I play a wiz for fun and because I like the class and have a 5 aps sin for farming. b:surrender
Good thing I play a wiz for fun and because I like the class and have a 5 aps sin for farming. b:surrender
"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
Post edited by Arenaceous - Lost City on
0
Comments
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Unfortunately, that's what I was thinking.
They best make the damage ****, or otherwise..this is just horrible. I wasn't too worried about the Seekers affecting us in anyway; Now, I am.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] b:victory0 -
Taken from the comments page:
""hits every 1.5 seconds" thats twice as fast as Barrage and DB, and from the stats I'm seeing in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnm7B0PsW44 video (55% weapon damage; 4491.2 additional damage), at lvl 1 it hits harder than lvl 1 Barrage and DB each hit."
Reminder: DB has no weapon damage added. And that aoe might even work with Bloodpaint. And as a HA class tehy are generally less squishy/have more hp... (Exception is a good geared endgame wiz ofc)"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
- Jaya Ballard, Task Mage0 -
wizzies' job in RB wasnt wiz-exclusive after psys anyway
although i prefer wiz+psy that psy+archer0 -
if it makes u feel better, sure, psy can do wiz job in delta, that's why pro squads that plan to go further than BH waves will always take a wiz over a psy.
Best combo for DD in delta is Archer+wiz, hands down.
yeah, in case there's a need for it, both can be replaced by a psy.
I ran a lot of Deltas with my BM and wiz, and a psy could never out DD a wiz unless his weapon had at least 4-5 refine levels over the wizard's.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Wizards rock in delta for sure. As for these new classes and their skills, I don't give a ****. Wizards are still cool.The doctor will see you now.0
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in theory a psy spamming aoes has the same if not greater DPS than a wiz,
with plenty of room to counter lag or other issues.
ofc theory =/= practise. but also every psy is not perfect.
squad with a fail psy and he will be in white hitting mobs every 10sec.
a psy will stun, freeze, blind, slow, reduce the attack rate of mobs while DDing
and can always become immune for 10sec plus use apothecary while DDing.
sov for the barb, sos for the cleric, vigor for better heals..
it's not about feeling better, i feel better when I complete full smooth delta as a main DD
"pro" squads... I doubt that they even considered let alone try a psy.
and ofc pro squads are people that leveled with RBs before frost; run dozes of RB and psys werent there. so they are fixed to the old model.
btw ty but I dont really need ur confirmation that a psy can do the wiz job in full delta;
I know it myself since i've done it b:cute0 -
what I'm curious about is the range of the seeker's aoe, that can be a big factor.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »what I'm curious about is the range of the seeker's aoe, that can be a big factor.
btw from what i've seen in the vids they have too aoes:
one like DB (dunno range) and one that they can cast and run around
but it looks pretty wide range http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tatDYI4j_40 -
seen the vid, but the range isn't that obvious.
Range of the wizard's DB is way bigger than the DB animation ... So I can't really say anything until I see the skill description.
Anyway, that is a kicka$$ skill, and basically makes any other Constant AOE DD ingame pretty much obsolete. 30% def lvl buff , jones blessing and that sh.t never ending with a MP charm is just waaaay too good to ignore.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »in theory a psy spamming aoes has the same if not greater DPS than a wiz,
with plenty of room to counter lag or other issues.
ofc theory =/= practise. but also every psy is not perfect.
squad with a fail psy and he will be in white hitting mobs every 10sec.
a psy will stun, freeze, blind, slow, reduce the attack rate of mobs while DDing
and can always become immune for 10sec plus use apothecary while DDing.
sov for the barb, sos for the cleric, vigor for better heals..
it's not about feeling better, i feel better when I complete full smooth delta as a main DD
"pro" squads... I doubt that they even considered let alone try a psy.
and ofc pro squads are people that leveled with RBs before frost; run dozes of RB and psys werent there. so they are fixed to the old model.
btw ty but I dont really need ur confirmation that a psy can do the wiz job in full delta;
I know it myself since i've done it b:cute
Depends what people consider a pro squad. The normal RB squad that I go with, none of us even need a charm if we really wanted to. Even with the weapon I have, the BM and barb can co-ordinate their aggro switches off me perfectly, and my HP won't even drop 3k unless they lag.
I'm not too familiar with the damage on psychics exactly, but I'm sure it's quite high when they have attack voodoo up. Not sure either as to how it would compare to a sage BIDS + DB combination.[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=14463705003&type=sigpic&dateline=1322469658[/SIGPIC]0 -
at ~2:30 he hits a mob that is quite far. but yeah, cant really judge the exact distance in that vid.
DB range is 2x DB animation right?0 -
Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »that's why pro squads that plan to go further than BH waves will always take a wiz over a psy.
People who don't understand simple concepts like DPS (but look at DPH omgwtfdamage, who cares about DPH), or think that a delta should have charmed people or at very least tank charmed (I just lol at this... says a lot about proness). b:chuckle
There is no way I could have kept aggro from an equally geared psy who knows what he is doing -- and he cant stun too and move around while I'm stuck in a location.0 -
Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »Depends what people consider a pro squad. The normal RB squad that I go with, none of us even need a charm if we really wanted to. Even with the weapon I have, the BM and barb can co-ordinate their aggro switches off me perfectly, and my HP won't even drop 3k unless they lag.
I'm not too familiar with the damage on psychics exactly, but I'm sure it's quite high when they have attack voodoo up. Not sure either as to how it would compare to a sage BIDS + DB combination.
huhu and i wanted to do some math today
average wiz: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=38c1b9ce55fbeae0
average psy: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9de91014b30d4010
average basic magic attack:
wiz: 11,394
psy: 11,108
average weapon damage:
wiz: 1964
psy: 1966
sage BIDS:
base magic damage plus 500% of weapon damage plus 13955.0.
= 35,169
sage mastery: 43,961
+30 attack levels: 57,149 (JJ blessing)
assuming crit proc: acivates for 30%of the mobs: 74,295
however the chance of that to happen is 50% so on average: 65,722
sage DB:
base magic damage plus 4800.0
= 16,194
sage mastery: 20,242
+30: 26,315
for 3 ticks we will apply the extra crit rate so: 34,209
50% chance so average: 30,262
so:
initial hit (assuming ~-25%chan on the wiz): 156,508 during 13sec ->12,039/s
rest: 8,771/s
psy loop:
sandburst blast -> glacial shards -> earth vector -> sandburst blast -> glacial shards -> aqua cannon (lvl10 versions)
sandburst blast (3sec):
basic magical attack plus 200% gear attack and another 3216.5 Earth damage
=18,256
sage mastery: 22,820
+55 levels: 35,371 (sage black voodoo)
glacial shards (3sec):
base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 2675.1 Water damage
=17,715
sage mastery: 22,143
+55: 34,322
earth vector(2sec):
base magic damage plus 100% of weapon damage plus 3461.7 Earth damage
=16,535
sage mastery: 20,668
+55: 32,036
aqua cannon (3sec):
basic magical attack plus 200% gear attack and another 4518.8 Water damage to all targets within 8 meters
=19,558
sage mastery: 24,447
+55: 37,893
total damage in once aoe cycle (17sec): 209,315
DPS: 12,312/s
Analyzing the results:
wizard:
plain DPS: 8,771/s
starting boost (13sec): 12,039/s
psychic:
plain DPS: 12,312/s
HF in the beginning while wiz throws BIDS would probably give a bit more damage to the wiz. same if the wiz cancels BIDS if it doesnt proc and restart. not sure how much time is wasted to do that so i cant really calculate it. I assume that that initial hit would get a lot of aggro
the range is also an issue.
if we assume a normal distribution of mobs the wiz would deal damage damage to more mobs. specifically:
wiz: 12m radius, area covered: 452m2
psy: 8m radius, area covered: 200m2
so the wiz would deal: 3,964,492/s while the psy 2,462,400
assuming 1 mob every square meter.
tbh my experience from delta says that that is not the case xd
what else,, stun effect of sage DB: 20%
so 6,67% stuns per sec
stuns from earth vector: 85%
so 5% stuns per sec.
so wiz gets some more stuns
the psy maybe would spend some time casting psy will or bubble of life so that will lower the dps. cant really calculate that XD
so all in all the dps difference doesnt look that great to be a concern; especially if the wiz doesnt use sage bids in the beginning i dare to say that the psy clearly outdds the wiz.
of course, theory is different from practice and i still consider mysefl a delta noob; so I wont say anything else
edit: wow that's a loooong post and i looked obsessed with wiz vs psy dps; I dont. I just like math, calculations, proofs, optimum builds... that kind of stuff XD
i fear that i should have rolled an archer :b0 -
Yea..that was a lot of math.
But you're right, I didn't doubt that psychics could do alot of aoe damage, because I've seen it before with a psy in my faction. Don't think there's a time when you can't aoe, right?
But, considering most waves die within 15 seconds, leaving only a few increased life mobs left, which could be taken down by simple hits, that's why I say high powered wizards are better in rb. Especially when demon HF is used on a sage BIDS proc, it makes short work of mobs.[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=14463705003&type=sigpic&dateline=1322469658[/SIGPIC]0 -
Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yea..that was a lot of math.
But you're right, I didn't doubt that psychics could do alot of aoe damage, because I've seen it before with a psy in my faction. Don't think there's a time when you can't aoe, right?
But, considering most waves die within 15 seconds, leaving only a few increased life mobs left, which could be taken down by simple hits, that's why I say high powered wizards are better in rb. Especially when demon HF is used on a sage BIDS proc, it makes short work of mobs.
no problem with cooldowns. there is also the 100 skill and cystal light although it's not exactly an aoe; linear aoe with a small circle in the end. the 100 skill might help for getting some more DD in the begining with HF but i dont want to calculate it atm *exhausted* xd0 -
Thanos, stop proving Psy's are better, we need something to hang on to o.o
Oh..wait.....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] b:victory0 -
I'd make a Seeker, get that skill, and just watch him use it and laugh at how stupid it looks.0
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Galox - Heavens Tear wrote: »Thanos, stop proving Psy's are better, we need something to hang on to o.o
Oh..wait.....
dw, mystics will pwn all of us b:chuckle
serious: it barely proves any of psy>wiz or wiz<psy, it's just proves that if u need a aoe for 17+ sec ~8m a psy will deal more dmg than an equally geared wiz (if he doesnt dies). and some other pre-requisites, not sure what happens with combos like HF/sin/veno debuff (who would get a veno+a sin in delta though? XD)
and the difference in damage is not that great meaning that it's more about gear0 -
that math is nice and all, and imma let u finish, b:laugh but there are a few barbs and bms that can hold off aggro of a sage DB, and from that pack close to none are willing to do it even if u pay them.
sage wizards keep db at 10 as long as they need to step in Delta or else they are pretty much screwed.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
well actually i dont read through all ur maths.... i just stopped reading at the point
blabla 32k dmg
with max mastery 41 k dmg
the masterie doesnt do that much difference. u know the elemental dmg wont increase based on ur mag or something.
f.e. its called in skills deals | earth dmg equal to ur base magic damage | + 200 % of ur weapon dmg | + xxxx
not every part of the skills dmg is elemental dmg.
at least i had my masteries at lvl 1 when i came to the 90s.
after i maxed them to lvl 10 the difference was like 800 dmg each hit. ( im pure mag build )
and that is not almost 9k difference.0 -
eyehaveyou wrote: »the masterie doesnt do that much difference. u know the elemental dmg wont increase based on ur mag or something.
QUOTE]
i apologize for this part that is obviously wrong from the point after this.
i forgot to delete it0 -
u can always use the edit function and delete ****____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
eyehaveyou wrote: »well actually i dont read through all ur maths.... i just stopped reading at the point
blabla 32k dmg
with max mastery 41 k dmg
the masterie doesnt do that much difference. u know the elemental dmg wont increase based on ur mag or something.
f.e. its called in skills deals | earth dmg equal to ur base magic damage | + 200 % of ur weapon dmg | + xxxx
not every part of the skills dmg is elemental dmg.
at least i had my masteries at lvl 1 when i came to the 90s.
after i maxed them to lvl 10 the difference was like 800 dmg each hit. ( im pure mag build )
and that is not almost 9k difference.
i based my calculations on this: http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Damage#Amplifying_Damage
note that the numbers here are the pure attack; irl these numbers are decreased by damage reduction (target's defense, pvp/level reduction etc).
it also depends on the gear; i used r8 which is pretty powerful gear, not matter that it is cheap now.
but if u are right, it doesnt really change a lot; maybe give the wiz a little more points:
the difference in elemental damage dealt per sec is ~500 so with the mastery 125 points more for the wiz0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »*grows *** feathers on his head, picks up a bow*
well rebirth is not only about damage overall,
when you can deal tons, you need to be able to take the answer
when you want to outdamage the wizard, you need to sacrifice your defenses
while the wiz is there taking his hits with high defenses
back, in the past, when lvl100 was a distant, distant thing
and TT90 armor was endgame gear
people took archers over wizards, simply because they wont take that much aggro AND didnt die that fast
they still are better at taking those mobs, with higher HP and the high evasion making up for the "crappy" pdef
come to think, the best setup for a perfect squad in these days would be
Demon Wizard (150%+pdef, selfhealing DB, no freak-aggro-reset-stun),
Demon Archer (higher damage BOA, not tanking anyways, at same refine),
Sage Psy (Sage Bubble of Life)
Demon Barb (they deal more damage in Tiger, ->hold aggro longer, **** +30%hp)
Sage BM (more Pdef for everyone, tho demon HF is a awesome thing too xd)
[edit] forgot the Cleric, :P the one who goes AFK for the most time
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so this new class is wearing Heavy Armor; they will be the Rebirth-gods
i see it coming, squad with bloodpaint doing Delta without clerics :P
*maybe they have some weird stats? like high str requirement on weapon but stats needed in mag for stronger skills?i like potato0 -
HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »hi thanos ;D
well rebirth is not only about damage overall,
when you can deal tons, you need to be able to take the answer
when you want to outdamage the wizard, you need to sacrifice your defenses
while the wiz is there taking his hits with high defenses
i definitely agree that another important part is defense; but what i usually hear is that a psy cant DD much, not that he dies fast.
for that, a psy could use psy will (immune 8sec), expel (immune 9sec [he keeps DDing since he purified it with bubble]). stuns is also good.
i wont say more about surviving as a psy vs wiz since i have died too much xd0 -
HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »
come to think, the best setup for a perfect squad in these days would be
Demon Wizard (150%+pdef, selfhealing DB, no freak-aggro-reset-stun),
Demon Archer (higher damage BOA, not tanking anyways, at same refine),
Sage Psy (Sage Bubble of Life)
Demon Barb (they deal more damage in Tiger, ->hold aggro longer, **** +30%hp)
Sage BM (more Pdef for everyone, tho demon HF is a awesome thing too xd)
[edit] forgot the Cleric, :P the one who goes AFK for the most time
yea..no. There is no such thing as the perfect RB squad.[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=14463705003&type=sigpic&dateline=1322469658[/SIGPIC]0 -
Perfect RB squad? What about 1 full +12 R9 cleric with 5 full +12 R9 sage wizzes with lvl 11 DB?
Is that a contender?0 -
5 sage DBs...that would be funny to see, lol.[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=14463705003&type=sigpic&dateline=1322469658[/SIGPIC]0
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i think that hex meant perfect = bonus beans/diff classes0
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Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »5 sage DBs...that would be funny to see, lol.
I would pay a ticket to see that. I swear I would.
5 sage DB is pretty much stunlock for all the mobs all the time...well, except the stun resist ones.____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
This discussion has been closed.
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