Zerk Crits?

MrSyko - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ok, so I finally came around to maxing Arma (was at lvl 6 for a while). I was playing around with my damage and thought about the percentage of the zerk crit with my TT90 gold axes.

If I use Arma in a group of enemies, does the %rate of the zerk crit go up, since I'm hitting multiple targets, or is it unaffected because I'm only targeting a single enemy?

Not sure if this makes sense, just had a question and posted it here before fully thinking about it...b:surrender

I believe Zerk effect is 5%, and no, every time you use a skill or attack, that attack has a 5% chance to zerk, no matter how many people you hit. But the Zerk will affect all of the people you hit.

I'm 99% sure that it works in a manner such as the following:

Lets say you have a 10% crit rate (mines actually 9% but OFWb:chuckle) then if you arma on 10 targets, odds are you will get a crit on 1 of them, mathematically speaking (10% * 10 = 100%). You may see more crits however. Now lets say you have 50 mobs, you're looking at 5 crits or more out of the group.

Now lets add Demon Onslaught in before Armageddon. Demon Onslaught adds 35% crit rate, bringing your 10% up to 45%. In such case, and you can test it out for yourself - in a group of 3 mobs / players you should see a crit on 1 of them. (generally with 2 as well, but 2*45 = 90% which is still damn sexy). With a 50 mob pull, you're generally (non mathematically speaking) looking at critting on half the group.

Even before getting 9% crit, I have never not crit with armageddon in FC runs on the larger pulls. Working on a 5% or so crit rate, if the pull was 20 or more mobs I would always see a crit.

--

If zerk chances behave *similarly* depending on your amount of targets, and if zerk is 5% proc rate as mentioned above, then with a pull of 20+ mobs you should more often than not see a zerk (on all mobs) with a crit (on half the mobs if working with demon onslaught) = pwnage.

so I'd say thats the test. go run some FC's or solo in scarred for a bit and check the results. which i may do after making a basic set of Calamity's again just for that purposeb:chuckle

pro zerk crit: http://i51.tinypic.com/2lm7vht.png

This after doing ToP -> crab meat&herb yuanxiao -> demon onslaught -> Armageddon 10

yes I'm wearing a jones blessing, and there was HF (not sure what level).

Wow blade, do you need a hug?

Blade_aether - Lost City wrote: »

5% Zerk? 30% Zerk?

Are you kids done playing?

Sacrificial Strike is a 19% chance to deal double damage at the cost of consuming 5% of the user's max HP.

Gof of Frenzy is twice that: a 38% chance to deal double damage at the cost of consuming 5% of the user's max HP.

(That information is from reading expanded .pck files in your game folder.)

Mm I'm pretty sure I've seen someone posted chances for weapon skills from game files where it said zerk is 30%. 19% seems abit low from my own experience, but sure it certainly is somewhere in the 19-30% range, just looking how often it actually procs.

Do you emember in which .pck-file this info was from? Been browsing through them for a while without finding this info, It's kinda hard to find info you want if you don't know in which file to start searching in.
(Sidenote: wouldn't this be best to be programmed server side, if it isn't? I mean someone pro at hacking could just adjust his chance for his weapon to proc if it's only client side. And if it's server side then it's impossible to tell unless you got the source code for this server, since it could differ from server to server if they'd like to change it.)

//EDIT
Would probably be to heavy workload on server/connection if it would be server side only.
But hopefully they made so you can't adjust things like this without server knowing about it or else would be
scary if some people could adjust their proc/crit rate or something like that without getting caught.

Furthermore, ever noticed how when you AOE mobs that have the same defenses, they all receive the same damage? That is because your AOE hit damage and crit or whatever you may have is determined by the ONE mob that you have targeted.

Therefore, you you AOE and crit, you SHOULD in theory crit all of the mobs hit, but to account for the unfairness of a way to cheat guaranteed crit, there is a level of diminishing returns, there is an undefined likelihood that your AOE 'crit' will not crit on certain mobs within the group, just as there is a likelihood that you will crit in the first place.

The damage from skill/weapon (including zerk if it procs) is actually calculated before it hits your target(s) and then when it hits the targets (if it hits) the damage will be decreased according to each targets pdef/mdef/def lvl/and so on.

Crit is calculated for each hit individually I'm pretty sure of. Else how would some of the hits in an aoe be able to crit if the hit on the mob you got in target doesn't even crit?
It only makes sense that each mob you hit in an aoe got the same chance of critting, even if your actual target crits/doesn't crit.

........

To make it short:

1. IF zerk procs, all mobs gets double damage (based only on the chance zerk have to proc, which is uncertain until someone bring up some proof for the actual rate. Personally I'd say it's ~30% from game experience)
2. Each mob/target in the aoe got its own chance of critting (based on attackers crit rate)

//EDIT
I got no proof either that the crit rate is calculated like this when you aoe. But from my experience it works like this and seems to me like the logical way of programming it. Of course it could have been done in some other similar less logical way.

So if it is server side that would mean whatever value you can see on client side doesn't have to be correct. But sure if you been testing zerk rate with every skill and came to ~19% rate each time i believe you.
30% is a number I've seen people talk alot about for a long time and even think i saw that number from some game file if i remember correct. And from my experience it doesn't sound that wrong after seeing how often zerk actually procs. But hell the random generator in this game sometimes seems so screwed up. Sometimes you can do 20-30 hits without getting a zerk hit and other times you can get 8-9 out of 10 hits to zerk (yeah I've seen that).

The aoe dmg is same IF all player/mobs got same def/lvl yeah. Ever aoed a group of mobs where some of them is increased pdef/magic resistance? Yeah the damage they receive is decreased more. This is the way I look at it from a programmers view:
Equipment damage value + skilldamage value => generates a value (this is the "damage" i was talking about that will be decreased)
Target got his defensive properties(lvl, pdef, mdef, dev lvl, -pvp reduction and so on) so the "damage" will be processed by each target that got hit by the aoe and decreased to the "actual damage dealt" according to the defensive properties.

About crit. I've been aoeing alot in this game and haven't seen any difference to critting other mobs in the aoe If I crit the actual targe or not. If I aoe ~10mobs with 6%crit rate sometimes i see no crit at all, sometimes a see a few crits. Doesnt matter if i crit actual target or not. So the logical way of programming it would be to check if it crits or not for each mob individually.
About BIDS im not so familiar with wiz skills but from description I'd say when you cast skill you get a 50% chance of getting a crit buff. If you get it then you'll get +30% more critrate (which probably doesn't show in character screen like other crit buffs), I don't see why this would behave in any other way than normal crit/aoe stuff.


But as I said this is only ideas how i think it works, doesn't mean everything i say is 100% correct. Lets just look at FACTS instead.

1. If Berserk procs, every mob/player will receive double damage from what they normally would receive.
- Debatable about this could be if the chance for berserk to proc is increased a little bit for every mob that you aoe. Personally I'd say no, if it does then it's only a really small increase.

2. Crittin target in aoe doesn't mean that other mobs have to crit too.
3. Not critting target in aoe doesn't mean that other mobs can't crit.
- Debatable about this could be if crits on none targeted mob are increased/decreased when target mob crits/doesn't crit or if crit rate is calculated individually for each mob according to your crit rate. Personally I haven't seen any difference, but could be because my crit rate is kinda low still and it could be easier to see with higher crit rates

// EDIT
Like the way you look at crits wouldn't you have to look the same way on accuracy if you actually hit the mob or if it misses? If you miss target then you'd probably miss all other mobs too? mm I think not.
And when I talk about the logical way of doing it i mean like this:

Pretend I'm holding a handful of rocks and throwing them on a group of people(this would be the aoe).
Each person got a chance of getting hit by any of the rocks. If the person that i aimed on gets a rock in the eye(critical) does that mean the other persons in the group got a higher chance to get a rock in the eye? No.

That's why i think it sounds less logical the way your thinking. But doesn't mean you have to be wrong either I just haven't noticed any difference in this.