Rubber banding when landing or auto pathing?

Vasilisk - Harshlands · November 2010

vuce wrote: »

From my experience as an indy game dev, this issue usually arises when anti speed **** algorithms are in place. If the player moves too fast the code will pull back the player to the point of where they started to "speed ****" or speed up.

Sounds correct. Just one note about "lag". It's not really lag, and packets not droped. Probably it's jitter sensitivity. One thing i can't understand. If anti speedhack fire on packets delay (for example, one packet was delayed and it come with next packet same time), why it's "continuous"? I can understand if rubber effect fire once time to time, but can't understand loop.

wanderertan · November 2010

I'm bumping this thread. I just read though this thread quickly and I can't believe what I'm reading here.
Making a screenshot everytime this happens? Really? You'll get two dozen screens from me out of an hours worth of play then. And all of my playing friends will do the same. And I think it's save to say that NO players do not experience this glitch.
It got me killed multiple times over now. Had to go back to the character selection screen on even more occassions.
It just happens anywhere and everywhere.

Verbicide - Dreamweaver · November 2010

As stated by ZeroMagus, whenever I get stuck on top of an npc or stuck in mid-air I just click my wings and fly a little away from the position I was stuck in and land again. Its worked every time.

Hisuna - Sanctuary · November 2010

Once again, I'm not majorly useful when it comes to tech stuff, but here is what I have noticed in particular:

There is definitely not a specific location that this happens in. It can happen anywhere, whether on an npc or not.
The problem from what I can tell (in my very lay description) happens when the character is in what I would call a running fall, and when the character is standing on something not defined as "ground". (such as an npc's head)

What I mean by running fall is anything like running off a cliff without jumping. your character falls, but also continues to run. this results in rubberbanding a ton of the times people do it, and the higher the fall, the more likely the character is to experience this rubberbanding. It happens with aerogear because when aerogear is de-summoned, the character is put into this "running fall". The controlling player does not see it this way, but if you look at another person releasing an aerogear, they appear to run as they fall straight down, or fall at an angle if they were moving upon releasing flight.

When players land on npc's after autopathing, they fall straight down, but they land on the npc rather than what I believe the game is defining as "ground". The reason I believe that players think it's related to speed (and im not necessarily saying that it's not related to that) is because if a player is mounted or using a high end speed buff, when they go over a hill or down the side of a mountain, there are times when their mount or their feet leave the "ground" due to the speed and therefor the character is placed, once again, in this "running fall".

Now maybe I'm way off, and I'm sure this whole thing might sound really stupid to someone who really understand tech, but from my point of view, this seems to be the one steady factor in all cases of rubberbanding.

Finn_haar - Sanctuary · November 2010

mehhh >.> I rubber banded in TT 1-2 2-1 2-3 3-1 3-2 everytime I get into the exploding hands thingy... I'm like 10meters out of it and then I rubber band back and die QQ

Malvina - Harshlands · December 2010

/zus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

System has nothing to do with that, its just the game itself.
Best way to get out of it is fly, always works.

If you don't have a fly to escape the rubber banding?

I don't get why devs don't pull back the patch that caused this?? is SO simple, retract that patch until you know what's the problem instead of doing a 2908357652034560345204 miles thread in forum, taking one year and asking the hole PWI to post tons of data, useless screenshots, videos, coords, underwear color and mom's hairstyle to end up with empty hands and still the annoying glitch in the game (and not the only glitch).

I really wonder if this or any technical thread helps or just burns our time... there are other issues that are also not solved and the keep adding time on the game (like jump+fly glitch, TW complains, etc) but the debate on almost filosophical way to solve the glitches is still on.

Apart from this, thanks Darthpanda for your effort to solve this.
Call your teammates to start working and don't leave you alone on this b:pleased

ceaseny716 · December 2010

I just made a new alt and i get stuck EVERYTIME i land on a npc head..with my main its fine because i can fly...but i cant fly with my alt..its getting VERY annoying...and a screenshot everytime?...it happenes on EVERY npc

NyKage - Lost City · December 2010

i like cheese

Lianithia - Dreamweaver · December 2010

Yup happens to me a lot also.
I have found out that when it does happen, if I equip my wings again or click on a different spot and jump. then it helps to stop it.

Yeah and it does happen at random, so you never know just when or where.

Fern/ - Heavens Tear7 · December 2010

Vorhs - Lost City wrote: »

I always have 400-700ms ping, but my internet connection is the fastest i can get here and my usual ping in every other online game i play is 50-60.

If almost every player got 300+ms latency, its ur server that must be upgraded, not our isp b:surrender

Praise the Lord, holy jesus!!!

It happens all time when landing.

Selth - Dreamweaver · December 2010

I am laughing at the fact that we are the speshul ppl who get to have dis glitch!

(It took me forever to gain the nerve of being asble to wrie hideous slang. >>)

Malpractice - Harshlands · December 2010

You all are very aware you can just pop on your Aerocraft and it'll stop, right..?
Well... If I could see the coding itself... I could probably fix it.. I dunno though. Haven't coded in years. Anyhow, why not just go back before the game broke lol?
See what messed it up, then take it out completely.

Mweya - Heavens Tear · December 2010

darthpanda16 wrote: »

There are a few types of rubber banding issues.

1) The kind botters and other players are getting by jumping off of NPCs (100% reproducible), and certain angles of the game world geometry, among others. This is what most of the issues are about that some of you are complaining about.

2) Network connection issues, with throttling or other network issues causing slow down. Sometimes ISPs, weather, huge variety of things that can cause it.

3) CPU Affinity settings. Some players will need to set their CPU Affinity to run the game with just one CPU.

4) Hardware lag. Drivers or hardware can not handle the game, or the in-game settings aren't set low enough for the player's PC to handle the game properly.

We aren't blaming anyone. b:victory

It is not easy to get players to experiment to make sure which one is the root cause of their issue.

That is what this thread is for. b:surrender

Thanks DarthPanda, for trying to get to the bottom of this. I have experienced rubber-banding on every PC and every internet connection I've tried. I will experiment with in-game settings, but how do you change the CPU affinity? Is there a link to this in the support pages you can post?

rhinoscat · December 2010

yeah the jumping on your flying mount for a moment fixes it but its still annoying, specially if you are on hilly terrain cause it can happen there too, even if you fall a short way and thats not good if you're in the middle of mobs. However its even more annoying if someone is new here and has no flying mount to break out of the rubberbanding, i think im just going to have to stop reckomending this to new people untill its fixed cause its just embarrassing.

Furries - Dreamweaver · December 2010

i ALWAYS get this when entering Old heaven's tear, becuase it puts you directly on top of the guy and u cant get off without putting on ur fly mount.

i always have to enter OHT while flying now.

darthpanda16 · December 2010

There are some things that you do in game that will result in the rubber banding. Try not to land on NPCs heads, and watch out for moving too fast on some hills and other in-game geometry.

This is different from network lag.

rhinoscat · December 2010

A friend of mine said he left a post with a suggestion of the cause, from what i understand (i might be wrong here) it started happening after a certain patch?, he thought it might of been some sort of anti speed **** code or something in it that could be backfiring?, is that possible?.

_Spot_ - Lost City · December 2010

Darth
,

Another thing that is hapening to me a lot is with shadow teleport skill while questing if i stun a mob i usually get literally stuck on the ground....

I can solve this by pop up my fly mount and inside dungeons by teleporting to other mob...
But in pvp its kinda hard to kill someone when u get stucked........

Sulvein - Sanctuary · December 2010

Right now my barb is on top of an npc in lost city by the teleporter area. Next to the blacksmith. I cannot get off the top of him. I jumped over the building and landed right next to him but then it sprang me on top of him now it won't let me do anything. I walk it rubberbands..I jump it does the same thing. Its getting rediculous. I understand this is free to play. I am fully aware of that. But this rubber banding is getting really bad. Like the others said. It doesn't matter where we are. Its everywhere. I jump by a tree it does it. I jump off a cliff into water it does it . When will it stop. b:cry

BlackDiamond - Lost City · December 2010

darthpanda16 wrote: »

There are some things that you do in game that will result in the rubber banding. Try not to land on NPCs heads, and watch out for moving too fast on some hills and other in-game geometry.

This is different from network lag.

this is the server messing up since its not able to keep up with the players

the problem is the server is setting wrong physics state on server side

Cause? Client used a replicated function that used SetPhysics(PHYS_walking);

unless your server is using a high update interval this means the server is forced to apply that state to the server copy of the player

unreal engine has a server side simulation of the clients location ect to prevent most exploits however it causes discrepencys which the server data will override if the client fails to matchup.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear · December 2010

why do people keep thinking PW has anything to do with the Unreal game engine? it doesn't. PW-CN developed their own, proprietary, game engine which they call "Angelica".

Fintan - Lost City · January 2011

darthpanda16 wrote: »

There are some things that you do in game that will result in the rubber banding. Try not to land on NPCs heads, and watch out for moving too fast on some hills and other in-game geometry.

This is different from network lag.

Just an idea that will "fix" it for those of us who see it auto-pathing while flying to an NPC and auto-landing: Stick a bit of "fuzz factor" on the auto-route coordinates, so you end up next to the NPC instead of on top of the NPCs. This would probably remove at least half the time most users see rubberbanding based on my limited time back playing PWI. (Autoroute was brand new when I left; it had fewer features and more bugs. But it didn't have anything nearly this severe!)

I did not see this issue when I used to play (well, not often; and those cases were almost certainly lag...), so it's irritating to say the least to have to fight with it now. I have an alt I wanted to play, but she's not level 30 yet and she keeps rubberbanding when autoroute hits a wall. Since she can't fly yet, all I can do is relog. I may as well just play a higher level character if the game wants me to see the Character Select screen constantly while turning in quests.

Also, I've noticed that my Element Client doesn't shut down properly when I've been rubberbanding a lot. I left it for about 8 hours after hitting the Quit to Desktop button this last time, and it was still sitting there running when I returned to the computer, with pwprotector.exe chewing up lots of CPU. I didn't have time to investigate further, so pwprotector.exe and elementclient.exe got End Process'ed.

Perhaps I'll see this behavior when I have more time to poke at it, but now that I've seen it a couple times (if I'm not ending up in rubberbanding situations, I seem to have no issues with quitting the game), I'm tempted to think that it's something you ought to be able to replicate in your QA department with some heavy visit-this-NPC-across-the-world questing and not using teleporters... b:chuckle

And to confirm that it's not network lag, I'm only a few hops from the server most of the time. (Being very geographically close to PWE, I'd be surprised if I don't occasionally have less lag than they do to their datacenter... b:pleased)

Geminisfury - Heavens Tear · January 2011

this is a probelem with the entire game to list a place it happens would be everywhere and it is just not happening to this one person it is happening to us all. 2]If you are, we need some info from you!

First, actually go through our Knowledge Base to see if it is a networking, antivirus, or hardware lag issue FIRST.

Please follow the directions of this post. This thread is not to post opinions, flames, comments, etc. This is to help us research this so we can work on finding out what is causing it.

1) Where in the game world are you experiencing this? (provide full coordinates and screenshots or videos)

2) Which NPC were you landing on, or what were you landing on when you experienced this?

3) What exactly were you doing when the issue started occurring? (auto pathing somewhere, fighting a mob, flying over somewhere?)

4) Post a link to your dxdiag here.

5) How were you moving in the game world? (click with mouse, or keyboard keys like WASD)

Add any additional info that can help QA reproduce the glitch, the more detailed, the better.

Thank you all! b:pleased[/QUOTE]

Cilfyn - Heavens Tear · January 2011

I have the highest quality internet that I can get at this point, yet I consistently have 8k-10k ping nearly every day

chaznajjar · January 2011

12 pages, I didn't bother to read anything, but I suppose 'collecting data' doesn't really care about repetitions. I've been only somewhat affected by the deja vu falling (credit of someone else I saw use this) - not nearly as much as some people, for some reason. Lag has NOTHING to do with it, though, I can assure you. I've had times with nearly 6000 ms pings, and yet no rubberbanding, while other times around 200 ms pings with non-stop rubberbanding. There are a few things that I've found that help: 1) if the landing point is higher than the lift-off point, I never rubberband, 2) IF I have wings, I just click the fly button again and it stops, at which point I have to manually lower myself down to the ground, and 3) I never jump and hold a directional key all the way to the bottom; if I just fall at least the last 10-15 metres straight down, I rarely rubberband.

NPC's heads - yeah, those suck, but I don't have it automatically drop me upon reaching the destination, so I can drop more decisively (besides, if I walk away and it does that, occasionally there are monsters near the NPC that will gobble me up.) Also, cliffsides where you slide down, those suck, too. I've noticed that, for me at least, if I stop fighting the rubber banding, eventually I'll just stop, standing in mid air. From this point, I try to jump to a higher point if one is nearby. If it isn't, then occasionally just managing to jump and move a couple of metres can remedy the issue. I'm apparently lucky enough to be able to just go to the character select menu if the issue occurs with no harm done and a chance to end the aweful deja vu.

So: "Where in the world..?" Anywhere and everywhere.
--"Which NPC..?" As implied above, any and every.
--"What were you doing..?" Typically trying to fall! Sometimes sliding, though. If the example of 'autopathing' means in the process of autopathing (even horizontally), I've never experienced that. But I also only autopath when flying. Otherwise, I just run it.
--"How were you moving..?" WASD, almost always.

Basic computer details:

Operating System: Windows Vista Home Premium (6.0, Build 6002) Service Pack 2 (6002.vistasp2_gdr.100608-0458)
System Model: HP Pavilion dv6700 Notebook PC
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T5750 @ 2.00GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.0GHz
Memory: 4086MB RAM
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
--Display--
Card name: Mobile Intel(R) 965 Express Chipset Family
Driver Version: 7.15.0010.1666 (English)

Both 'DxDiag Notes' and DirectX Debug Levels said there was nothing.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear · January 2011

This issue still isn't fixed. In all honesty, it probably never will (or will be fixed ages from now). The development team in China really has it's viewpoint in an odd area. They have this thought that if they push new content into a game, even if there are previous bugs/glitches, the new content will bring them greater cash in real life. This however, is false. See, logically if people start a game, then rubberband/glitch around at low levels - that's a major issue. It will push people out of the game. Less people = less cash.

darthpanda16 · January 2011

Sometimes it is hard to tell if it is the rubber banding is the geometry issue when moving fast in-game, hardware lag, or network lag.

Please use the mouse to click on something in the game world to navigate around the issue carefully, or fly in a different direction.

Try to only walk on inclined slopes or hills, not run or move fast if you get this issue.

Also try holding the W, A, S, or D keys down and jumping until you get unstuck.

chaoticshelly · January 2011

It has gotten to a point where my characters rubber-band "by breathing" meaning I don't even have to move for it to start occurring. Its especially annoying when entering water and not being able to get out of them unless logging out and back in. Fun times.

shoutboxer · January 2011

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This issue still isn't fixed. In all honesty, it probably never will (or will be fixed ages from now). The development team in China really has it's viewpoint in an odd area. They have this thought that if they push new content into a game, even if there are previous bugs/glitches, the new content will bring them greater cash in real life. This however, is false. See, logically if people start a game, then rubberband/glitch around at low levels - that's a major issue. It will push people out of the game. Less people = less cash.

Absolut korrekt.
I mean, the errors are not just since yesterday.
I can only say as long as the error is not repaired, my money is wasted by Perfect World Entertainment. If I land on water and a beast kill me because I get stuck on the surface it cost me EP. EP cost me Hyper and Hyper cost money.
Perfect World Entertainment is a company, which like all companies think about money. As you have already written Tremblewith, they have money, time, and developers for new content, but the actual error is irrelevant. New content brings new customers and money. These errors have already made some game providers and Perfect World Entertainment will soon realize that it is the wrong way to create new content and only then to fix old bugs, or to forget them.My last hope is that the error with the Genesis-update is fixed, so I do it like Perfect Word Entertainment, and wait and hope. So that the world will soon be back in a perfect world, without error and with new content.

And who now thinks of our money?
(Sometimes I have the feeling that there is no test server.)

A little tip for all winged classes, use your Wings when u stuck.

(This text was translated by Google, you should find an error you may keep him happy and framing. ^^)

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear · January 2011

darthpanda16 wrote: »

Sometimes it is hard to tell if it is the rubber banding is the geometry issue when moving fast in-game, hardware lag, or network lag.

Please use the mouse to click on something in the game world to navigate around the issue carefully, or fly in a different direction.

Try to only walk on inclined slopes or hills, not run or move fast if you get this issue.

Also try holding the W, A, S, or D keys down and jumping until you get unstuck.

The thing is, I do know what is what. I don't mean to sound arrogant, however I've played this game long enough to know what kind of issues I'm experiencing. I'm also a major in Computer Networking, and know when I'm lagging via network or PC. I have a top of the line laptop I recently purchased. I have verified the files countless times on PWI's client. I have played around w/ all the settings. I have contacted my ISP. I have tried PWI on nearly 10 computers (laptops, netbooks, and desktops), at friend's houses w/ their internet, etc. They all rubberband.

The kind of rubberbanding is always the client's fault (Element.exe). It happens to every single player in the game, even if they refuse to admit it. I've spoken to at least 50 people on Ventrilo and in-game, who all say they rubberband and that it's a severe issue.

I've tested theories on low level characters. Darth, I understand rubberbanding isn't your fault - it's PW-CN's job to fix it. However, you do realize that rubberbanding is loosing your company potential profit? If I just joined this MMO today, and was a level 5 char running around... I would rubberband countless times. This, combined w/ a few other pretty big in-game issues, would push myself (as a new player), out of the game quickly.

There are work-arounds to the issue, but all are temp. You can hop on a flying mount, teleport, try standing still, logging out, etc. What new player will know this? I just don't understand how PW-CN see's things. If they want lots of money, can't they also fix in-game issues, allowing people to want to play? I mean - I get they want new content, because new content brings in players, as well as old players that have gotten bored. But from a company's standpoint, this just isn't right. A respectable company wants their product to work, and work well. Most game company's in the USA, push new patches to fix bugs as well as new patches for content. I get that it's not as easy to fix old bugs, but c'mon ya know?

Rubber banding when landing or auto pathing?

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