TW Changes

Vindrael - Lost City
Vindrael - Lost City Posts: 165 Arc User
edited January 2011 in General Discussion
Okay, it's been many months with the new TW changes, and here's what I see:

1. A single powerhouse faction now dominates almost every server.
2. TW is dead on most servers; Archosaur is good only because the powerhouse faction disbanded.
3. Inflation is out of control. Gold prices are still over 800k. During some periods of the day, gold prices go over 1 million.
4. There is no incentive at all to TW anymore. Smaller factions don't TW at all.
5. There has been an exodus to other games. TW made PWI unique, but now it's broken.

People are excited about Genesis, but I fear that once that excitement wears off more people will quit.

It's been pointed out by many people on many threads that TW pay contributes 5% or less to the total coin brought into the game. I know that PW-CN is totally different (people there can actually make real money by playing), so maybe the changes make sense there. But the change to TW makes no sense at all in PWI.

Please give me some good news... b:surrender
Post edited by Vindrael - Lost City on
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Comments

  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Game. Set. Match.

    Can't wait to see where this goes.

    I agree with the OP's post as well.
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  • Conavar - Heavens Tear
    Conavar - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Didn't the Gm's post that they were gathering information on how TW is after the changes ? That was months ago, so an update on there findings is in order me thinks.

    My own view ..

    They could reverse the changes tomorrow ( Pay, bidding ) and it wouldn't make much differance. To many people have lost interest in TW.
    Nothing short of a full map reset would change anything, and no I'm not calling for a map reset but Imo that's the only thing that would make any difference nowadays.
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  • Naivety - Harshlands
    Naivety - Harshlands Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Game. Set. Match.

    Can't wait to see where this goes.

    I agree with the OP's post as well.

    +1

    I dont really need to add more do I?
  • Ryiah - Heavens Tear
    Ryiah - Heavens Tear Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Vindrael - Lost City wrote: »
    1. A single powerhouse faction now dominates almost every server.

    2. TW is dead on most servers; Archosaur is good only because the powerhouse faction disbanded.
    Definitely no argument here. I think it also goes to show people making up those factions are less interested in TW and more interested in the income that comes from it.
    Vindrael - Lost City wrote: »
    3. Inflation is out of control. Gold prices are still over 800k. During some periods of the day, gold prices go over 1 million.
    I personally like this. High gold value means I can take my gold, sell it, and then process the huge amounts directly into gear, gems for said gear, etc. Gear prices simply haven't inflated at the rate gold has.
    Vindrael - Lost City wrote: »
    4. There is no incentive at all to TW anymore. Smaller factions don't TW at all.
    TW really isn't anything special anymore. Those of us who have been around for a good while have already had our chance at it. I personally never really cared for it.
    Vindrael - Lost City wrote: »
    5. There has been an exodus to other games. TW made PWI unique, but now it's broken.

    People are excited about Genesis, but I fear that once that excitement wears off more people will quit.
    I agree with you except on the point of TW in PWI being unique. It wasn't. There is at least one other game (which I consider to be the game PWI is mostly based off) that made use of a TW-like concept.

    I'm only partially excited about Genesis. I feel that it will end up being rather boring. And when the excitement is gone, so am I. And I already have an MMO in-mind that I will be going to coming out pretty soon.
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    So many coin sinks to bring gold prices back down to earth from DQ/TW/Jolly Jones in the past yet gold is still 800K each after pack/rank sales are gone. b:surrender
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  • Ryiah - Heavens Tear
    Ryiah - Heavens Tear Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So many coin sinks to bring gold prices back down to earth from DQ/TW/Jolly Jones in the past yet gold is still 800K each after pack/rank sales are gone. b:surrender
    How exactly are these even decent gold sinks? Jolly Jones allows you to either deposit I believe it was 100K coins or use an item from the cash shop. Assuming gold stays at less than 1 million per, then using the cash shop will always be less expensive.

    Also gold is running mostly off a supply/demand system. You can't claim that a gold sink will keep it low. If people are always willing to pay the price, it will always remain expensive. It's purely the player base doing it. Neither PWE nor PWI are at fault here except in the sense that they provide stuff that people really want.
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    How exactly are these even decent gold sinks? Jolly Jones allows you to either deposit I believe it was 100K coins or use an item from the cash shop. Assuming gold stays at less than 1 million per, then using the cash shop will always be less expensive.

    Also gold is running mostly off a supply/demand system. You can't claim that a gold sink will keep it low. If people are always willing to pay the price, it will always remain expensive. It's purely the player base doing it.

    I don't recall saying they were good nor did I claim a gold sink kept things low; I'm pretty sure my post implied failure of PW's coin sinks of nerfing TW to "bring gold prices back down to earth" quoted from a GM, unless you missed that too.
    Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Neither PWE nor PWI are at fault here except in the sense that they provide stuff that people really want.

    That's the entire problem though...
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  • Ryiah - Heavens Tear
    Ryiah - Heavens Tear Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I don't recall saying they were good nor did I claim a gold sink kept things low; I'm pretty sure my post implied failure of PW's coin sinks of nerfing TW to "bring gold prices back down to earth" quoted from a GM, unless you missed that too.
    Misunderstood your point is probably more accurate. Regardless, there are only two ways the prices could go down. Either a mass exodus of the player base to other servers/games. Or a complete revamp.
  • NightRage - Raging Tide
    NightRage - Raging Tide Posts: 1,582 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Yup, it's all just dead.
  • Patriialt - Dreamweaver
    Patriialt - Dreamweaver Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    i vote to cap the amount of coin players can sell gold for in AH xD 500k seems well enough :p

    Oh and i'd like to see frankie's feedback on if TW has been being evaluated on pwi for further adjustments. I'd like to see more incentive to TW also :)
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  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Patriialt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    i vote to cap the amount of coin players can sell gold for in AH xD 500k seems well enough :p

    This will only cause people to sell over WC. See PW MY-EN for an example.
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  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Patriialt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    i vote to cap the amount of coin players can sell gold for in AH xD 500k seems well enough :p

    The problem with capping the price is that the price is decided by the worth of the items in the AH

    for exmaple, merchents have discerned that packs, on average if opened enough, make you about 400k each, and thats why gold sat at 400k for the longest time when packs were being sold.

    Then the price of packs was halved, and the price of gold consequently doubled, because now you could buy 2 packs for the same $1, and on average they rewarded you with 800k.

    Then with the arrival of the rank sale, merchents decided that each rank badge was worth 8k each (not sure how they got this number tbh).
    I personally did alot of merchenting with rank badges, because if gold sold for less than 830k at any moment, I would buy that gold, use it to get rank badges, and would make a profit.
    Now you may point out that gold went well beyond 830k each, to 1m afew times, and thats true only because thats what players were willing to pay for it. The "real" price of gold (real meaning gold thats worth exactly what its corresponding item is) was only 830k

    But dont get it twisted, I'm not trying to say that high gold prices are caused by the playerbase and that PWI is just the innocent party thats trying to make us happy, because thats bullcrap and anyone who doesnt think PWI is the cause for the inflation is an idiot.
    PWI is VERY well aware that decreasing the price of certain items like packs will increase gold prices, and that increased gold prices causes more people to charge money, if not to buy packs, then to sell the gold to merchents who do want packs, so they can use the money for things like gear and mats.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    WTS>[The definition of inflation] pm offer.
  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited January 2011
    NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Yup, it's all just dead.

    How many of your posts have the words "game", "is", and "dead" in them? I mean, every post that I have seen of yours says that in some way...do you have template for it? b:mischievous
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  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm not one to agree with Light, but they HAVE done a pretty good job of killing TW. Not because of TW pay or anything - more that they just seem to pull rules out of their backsides and enforce them randomly one week, then ignore that same rule the next week.
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  • Mraochan - Lost City
    Mraochan - Lost City Posts: 464 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I agree with OP. Time for a TW system update.

    On a slight side note, (and because it's my personal favorite example) anyone remember when they introduced "chest of coins" as a reward to Cube? 1m coins inside, takes a perfect iron hammer to open. So 1m / 5 (gold) = 200k. Which is what gold went to instantly, and stayed there until packs came out. Also instantly rendered the reward as useless. When packs came out, gold went to 300-400k, and after packs became a permanent addition to the boutique, chest of coins was removed.

    I see what you did there. Even when hammers are on sale at 50% off, with current gold prices... you'd spend around 2m to get 1m back.

    I'm not complaining, I'm just enlightening those that may be unfamiliar in the ways of PWI. b:cute
  • Sekmeth - Raging Tide
    Sekmeth - Raging Tide Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    The only way TW will ever involve more than a few factions will be if they limit the max number of terr to a few (let's say 5 to 10). Even then will just mean 3-4 factions will have the map instead of 1-2. With the amount of coins coming from BH100's/best lucks/DQs TW money would have been pathetic really.

    Fact is good people hand around in best faction (or cash shoppers, they good too because they keep the game free and with regular updates for all of us rest) and the others just whine for not being capable to defeat them. So yeah blame them for being good, not you for sucking. If you're a casual player don't really expect to be on par with hardcore players when it comes to TW, this is a MMO-RPG not an arcade game, character building is as important if not more than "player skills".
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Too bad they can't change it back even if their investigations did prove true that TW activity is lower unless the PW CN version reverts back first...

    They can only submit reports to them for review to help them decide... etc, I don't believe Frankie and the others GMs don't have the final say to alter the mechanics of the game without the Dev's approval.
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  • Southkorean - Harshlands
    Southkorean - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Sekmeth - Raging Tide wrote: »
    The only way TW will ever involve more than a few factions will be if they limit the max number of terr to a few (let's say 5 to 10). Even then will just mean 3-4 factions will have the map instead of 1-2. With the amount of coins coming from BH100's/best lucks/DQs TW money would have been pathetic really.

    Fact is good people hand around in best faction (or cash shoppers, they good too because they keep the game free and with regular updates for all of us rest) and the others just whine for not being capable to defeat them. So yeah blame them for being good, not you for sucking. If you're a casual player don't really expect to be on par with hardcore players when it comes to TW, this is a MMO-RPG not an arcade game, character building is as important if not more than "player skills".

    I don't agree that territories should be limited. Back in the days that nobody really cash shopped heavily (because there wasn't much to cash shop) if you owned your lands, it was because you put effort into the game. (ACTUAL EFFORT.) I still have this hope that there are still factions like that out there...but I'm not holding my breath anytime soon.
    Most people who were there in those days will justify, if you have the ability to take the map and hold it from the ENTIRE REST OF THE SERVER, (who could, if they wanted to, stop bickering amongst one another and form alliances to defeat said map juggernaut, but refuse to) then you should be allowed to. There wouldn't be a point in just a few territories.

    I do however, agree with your second statement. A lot of people (COUGH **** COUGH LUCTIRICIA OF HARSHLANDS COUGH!) cry and whine and complain about factions owning most of the map simply because they're filled with a lot of powerful and talented players. It's true, most of the larger, stronger factions cash shop. That's just how the game works these days. It is possible to defeat them if you stop whining and try to both out-muscle and outsmart your enemies. That's the MAJORITY of the problem with other factions these days....If it were possible to pull strong players from other factions together, and plan an effective means of TW against the larger enemy, it would be possible to defeat them. But it's never going to happen.
  • Obly - Dreamweaver
    Obly - Dreamweaver Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    What born_free said +100
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  • Obly - Dreamweaver
    Obly - Dreamweaver Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Southkorean - Harshlands wrote: »
    TW was effectively killed when they decided to change currency prizes. Not only did it allow the big factions already owning maps to completely dominate, but it pretty much told every one of the smaller factions to go jump off a bridge. It's pretty much screwed over the cost of Celestone Prices as well as items made from Celestones. Gold hasn't fallen below 800k since the "fix".

    TheDan of course, is correct. Frankie stated SPECIFICALLY that they were nurfing TW (for a month!) to help get rid of fake bids, and bring gold prices back down to earth. It's a direct quote. The reason why you no longer see it however, is because Frankie was kind enough to unsticky the thread and let it go out of sight and out of mind.
    They nurfed TW in what, August?

    ......it's January. -.-

    Frankie: "We're going to do it for a few more months. Don't worry about it guys, things are completely fine! <3"
    It's January. That's more than a few months.

    Frankie: "We're still testing this out guys, don't sweat it!" <3<3
    .....Frankie.....it's JANUARY. A few months ago was NOVEMBER.

    But, just to prove a point, how many of you guys on other servers have seen fake bids posted by other factions in the last....oh, I don't know, year?

    I remember one with Takoda and another from SHILO in Harshlands. Just two.

    I ment this post +100
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  • Bollocks - Raging Tide
    Bollocks - Raging Tide Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    It is possible to defeat them if you stop whining and try to both out-muscle and outsmart your enemies. That's the MAJORITY of the problem with other factions these days....If it were possible to pull strong players from other factions together, and plan an effective means of TW against the larger enemy, it would be possible to defeat them. But it's never going to happen.
    And then what? You put a bunch of people together to form this alliance to fight the 'bigger/stronger' faction. You win, you win a couple of weeks in a row. Then all of the sudden you're the big and strong faction people are QQing about. And the whole charade starts over again. Give it up. This TW system is build to have one dominant factor on the map. The only thing we as players can control is the time it will take for one faction to take the entire map.
    Aasimar:
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  • Southkorean - Harshlands
    Southkorean - Harshlands Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Bollocks - Raging Tide wrote: »
    And then what? You put a bunch of people together to form this alliance to fight the 'bigger/stronger' faction. You win, you win a couple of weeks in a row. Then all of the sudden you're the big and strong faction people are QQing about. And the whole charade starts over again. Give it up. This TW system is build to have one dominant factor on the map. The only thing we as players can control is the time it will take for one faction to take the entire map.

    The issue of it all is that you need more factions on equal levels. Unfortunately, it's never going to happen; one faction will always be strongest. That's just the way it is...which is why I mentioned the words "never going to happen."

    *hugs Olby*
    Q.Q Frankie didn't like me advertising FFXIV in my siggy and pointing out Yulk's obvious lack of thinking parts.....
  • Obly - Dreamweaver
    Obly - Dreamweaver Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    The TW "Fix" was a fail from the start, every player in the game on every server realised that.

    What they should have done as a "fix";

    A: Total map reset.
    B: Limited amount of pieces of land per 1 faction, or pre-timed map resets.
    C: Keep coin system
    D: Stop *beep* up systems that work.

    Point B has been ticketed about a thousend times by players, old forums post from 3 years and longer ago told this would be preferable to ensure that there are no more single dominating factions, but multiple factions on the map at all times creating options for other factions on WHO to fight with.

    ps: *huggles Born_Free back*
    pps: The FF-PWI sigy rocked...:D
    b:victory Once you discover life is meaningless, you will see my point of view!! b:victory

    Skills determine a good player, not a creditcard.b:flower
  • AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary
    AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary Posts: 555 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I dont agree with the game is dead crowd, I'm more indeed a person to say there -is- hope if only PW would get their heads out of their own **** and start seeing that what ever's worked in CN doesn't work over here.
    To use some of their own words ( i cant find the friggen post to quote now )
    "Their gaming culture is different than ours, where it's completely normal to game hours on end"

    So basically, that to me, came off pretty racist.
    CN does it this way, even though your different, you can go suck it, this is how it is now.

    Personally never cared for TW to start with, what i did care about how ever was the extreme benefits such a ruling faction gets from it and how it can be abused so bad.
    Not saying people on my server did. so far situations have been purely coincidential but i can how it can be abused.

    Worst part of it all is, from what i understood now with the new genesis expansion, there will be guild bases.
    At first i thought oh cool ! Every faction can now try and work hard enough to earn themselves a guildbase where they can strengthen their forces and get items that will help them!
    Suppose i was being a little too optimistic for PW's sake, cause last this i hear theill be GIVING it to the top sumethingsomething factions on each server -.-.

    So far "building your guildbase" is a pretty picture. as it is stated in the first layer of the site before reaching the real one. where it clearly states you can obtain this base by gathering Items, materials and coin.

    I sure hope to what ever god there is, that it aint true that their just handing those babies out, cause i foresee TW being even more screwed than before. and by extent the game.
    All you need is something to believe in. -Solar_one. <-- <3 mah snoockums, mah hubby, mah eberyfing. :3

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  • Ruxal - Harshlands
    Ruxal - Harshlands Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Given the cost I have seen presumed for the construction of the bases clearly this bit of content was not made with the majority of players in mind.

    Some mmos just fail to capture everyone in the moment.
  • WnbTank - Archosaur
    WnbTank - Archosaur Posts: 1,472 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Southkorean - Harshlands wrote: »

    TheDan of course, is correct. Frankie stated SPECIFICALLY that they were nurfing TW (for a month!) to help get rid of fake bids, and bring gold prices back down to earth. It's a direct quote. The reason why you no longer see it however, is because Frankie was kind enough to unsticky the thread and let it go out of sight and out of mind.
    They nurfed TW[/COLOR]

    Funny thing is, I cant remember a single fakebid on archo server during old TW pay, last month or so I have seen 2 fakebids, this week seems to add another, though it`s not really fakebid I guess. LC(Currently owned by Nemesis) was bid by Zulusive, top2 faction of our server. Now another bid has been announced to LC, only 1 faction could have done and it`s pretty obvious to anybody playing on archo that they got no chance of winning that TW. They could have bidded other Nemesis land and taken adventage of biggest TW on archo server for months, yet they went and likely outbid the only canditates to take LC. Dunno really what to call that, it feels damn close to a fakebidding, even if they got 2 lands. This is just getting bit ridiculous tbh, zulusive has existed 4 TW weekends on this weekend. First week took land close to nemesis, 2nd week got fakebidded after bidding Nemesis, 3rd week took land from smaller faction in order to bid on LC for "quaranteed" TW, 4th week, the current, we see announcement of bid on LC after our own, I really got no words for this anymore.

    There are 2 problems I have pointed out on thread on archo subforums, which make fakebidding ridiculously easy and effective. 1, you wont win coins back even if you win TW, thus nobody wants to bid anymore than they have to. 2. You can only bid once, would it be possible to rebid, we would have put rather high bid after seeing land getting another bid as TWless weekends are boring.
    Trolling Sid since So Hot :o
  • Ryiah - Heavens Tear
    Ryiah - Heavens Tear Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I dont agree with the game is dead crowd, I'm more indeed a person to say there -is- hope if only PW would get their heads out of their own **** and start seeing that what ever's worked in CN doesn't work over here.
    That's a pretty big if. Also you are under the assumption that a game is always salvageable. That simply isn't true. A game can eventually reach the state where even if the company changes tactics it won't be enough to help.

    I would say this game has about had it. People who claim it is dead are clearly wrong. This game is full of life. The real issue is - what type of life? Most of the people I knew, the old early beta people, are long gone. Most of them quit long ago because of the faults. Most of them have moved on and will probably not come back even if you about-faced and fixed things.

    So yes, in a sense this game is dead. The original "decent" player base, the ones who kept, for example, Heaven's Tear's TWs so varied and active, is long gone. In place is what you have now and one of the results of the current player base is a one-sided TW map.

    Simply changing the game mechanics might fix some things. It might even breathe new life into TW. But it won't bring back the player base that was actively interested in keeping TW going. For that you would need a fairly decent sized group - at least enough people to fill a few guilds. And said group would have to be roughly evenly matched.
    AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »
    "Their gaming culture is different than ours, where it's completely normal to game hours on end"
    Honestly, in the older days of gaming (I grew up on a Commodore 64), you didn't spend ages gaming. That the GMs supposedly stated that is pretty hilarious because that statement clearly isn't true. I know plenty of people who, when asked during beta testing periods what their average play time is, they pretty much answer a value that is roughly 25% of the week. That is what I would call gaming for hours on end.
  • NiaJade - Harshlands
    NiaJade - Harshlands Posts: 303 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    <snip>You can't claim that a gold sink will keep it low. If people are always willing to pay the price, it will always remain expensive. It's purely the player base doing it. Neither PWE nor PWI are at fault here except in the sense that they provide stuff that people really want.

    Too true. It comes down to the law of supply and demand.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Ryiah - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    How exactly are these even decent gold sinks? Jolly Jones allows you to either deposit I believe it was 100K coins or use an item from the cash shop. Assuming gold stays at less than 1 million per, then using the cash shop will always be less expensive.

    Also gold is running mostly off a supply/demand system. You can't claim that a gold sink will keep it low. If people are always willing to pay the price, it will always remain expensive. It's purely the player base doing it. Neither PWE nor PWI are at fault here except in the sense that they provide stuff that people really want.
    I really wish more people on the forum thought in a practical sense like this.

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