demon 4.0 rank9/sage 4.0 nirvana dagger/demon 5.0 nirvana dag

ShineZ - Raging Tide
ShineZ - Raging Tide Posts: 15 Arc User
edited December 2010 in Assassin
Ignoring the cost to get the gears.. lets say i have a choice between going 4.0 with rank 9 daggers by going to demon or going to use nirvana dagger choose sage and be 4.0 or be demon with nirvana dagger n be 5.0

which way would be better in pvp n pve? sage gives 25% dmg reduction+sage BP better for pve? and by pve i mean the ability to tank bosses in any instances (survivability) in question

give thoughts pls ty
Post edited by ShineZ - Raging Tide on

Comments

  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Out of those options, the 4.0 with Rank9 dagger will deal the most damage.
    The Sage option will be the best tank.
    The 5.0 Demon gives you a better permaspark and higher damage than 4.0 Sage.

    So it comes down to what you want out of your sin. The R9 option will yield the best damage when sparking, but out of spark, it's only really superior when using skills. And you also get to use the best ring in the game.

    The Sage 4.0 will let you take more damage when tanking, which would make tanking easier, but with 4.0 being the minimum aps in any setting, the 25% damage reduction kinda starts looking not-so-great. If you can already tank without any problems at 5.0 with Nirvana daggers, going Sage wouldn't make much sense, other than for the BP.

    The 5.0 Nirvana option was standard end-game pre-rep sale.

    You'd also have to consider the un-sparked speeds, which would be 2.86, 4.0 and 4.0. Out of those, the last two are almost equal. The R9 can be superior to either, depending on the amount of attack levels you have and the refine you're planning on.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • QuickClaw - Lost City
    QuickClaw - Lost City Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    having both nirvana 1st cast +12 and rank 9 daggers only +6 atm i have to say the rank 9 ones are sexy.

    theres nothing like knife throwing an archer for 12k from across west gate on a zerk or a crit.

    though with my gear i have 25 atack level without a blessing, so thats 85 with the r9 wep on and jones blessing, and 115 with CoD, not to mention 135 with frenzy.

    it gets pretty crazy.

    that being said i still use my nirvana daggers for high proiority targets, 4.0 base (5.0 with wind shiled) is extremely good for pvp.

    though i am seriously tempted to switch to sage becasue if the better skills all around and still have 5.0 with wind shield on the nirvana daggers.

    each to their own i guess. gah off to farm for +10 again -.-
    Frankieraye:
    I'm not too worried about susa really. r9 does not exist in the real world
  • ShineZ - Raging Tide
    ShineZ - Raging Tide Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    QuickClaw - Lost City wrote: »
    having both nirvana 1st cast +12 and rank 9 daggers only +6 atm i have to say the rank 9 ones are sexy.

    theres nothing like knife throwing an archer for 12k from across west gate on a zerk or a crit.

    though with my gear i have 25 atack level without a blessing, so thats 85 with the r9 wep on and jones blessing, and 115 with CoD, not to mention 135 with frenzy.

    it gets pretty crazy.

    that being said i still use my nirvana daggers for high proiority targets, 4.0 base (5.0 with wind shiled) is extremely good for pvp.

    though i am seriously tempted to switch to sage becasue if the better skills all around and still have 5.0 with wind shield on the nirvana daggers.

    each to their own i guess. gah off to farm for +10 again -.-

    Good to know you have experience in both.. tho may i ask from your statement why do you think sage skills are better all around? is it pvp or pve wise?
  • QuickClaw - Lost City
    QuickClaw - Lost City Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    go and compare each demon skill to the sage alternative and the difference becomes quite apparent, except for maybe 1 or 2.

    sage subsea 30% amp to 50% amp
    demon is duration increase

    sage CoD is 35 atk lvl
    demon reduces atk speed debuff to 70% still usless for attacking at speed with daggers.

    sage earthen rift 430% wep dmg
    demon 2m more range

    you get the jist?
    Frankieraye:
    I'm not too worried about susa really. r9 does not exist in the real world
  • Regenbogen - Lost City
    Regenbogen - Lost City Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    16k knife throw on arcane...wtf rank9...b:infuriated
    i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    QuickClaw - Lost City wrote: »
    sage subsea 30% amp to 50% amp
    demon is duration increase

    Um, that depends on your point of view. For example, if you count the difference in APS, Demon wins. If you count the damage increase over all the time ((duration/cooldown)*increase), Demon wins. Also, it depends on whether or not EP counts into it. For example, if you add EP to it, then Sage wins overall for a party but loses on the Sin due to difference in APS.
    sage CoD is 35 atk lvl
    demon reduces atk speed debuff to 70% still usless for attacking at speed with daggers.

    There is a known case of 5 aps with claws with Demon CoD. And you could still get 2.5 aps sparked with it.

    And the difference between 60 and 65 attack levels is ~3% more damage.

    On the other hand, Demon has guaranteed sleep, a longer stun and of course, 5 aps.

    Personally, I decided on Sage for the following skills:
    Wolf Emblem (turns into a permanent buff)
    Focused Mind (higher chance to evade damage)
    Bloodpaint (higher heal)

    Other notable skills would be:
    Sage Subsea Strike (higher amp)
    Sage Power Dash (more crit%)
    Sage Shadow Escape (purify on cast)
    Sage Deaden Nerves (CD - duration = 30s)

    And of course the spark.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • ShineZ - Raging Tide
    ShineZ - Raging Tide Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    sage wolf emblem becomes more permanent but lowers crit by 20%? and since lvl 10 wolf emblem gives only 20% increase in crit dmg, doesnt that make the skill useless? or am i reading the description wrong?
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ShineZ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    sage wolf emblem becomes more permanent but lowers crit by 20%? and since lvl 10 wolf emblem gives only 20% increase in crit dmg, doesnt that make the skill useless? or am i reading the description wrong?

    It lowers it to 20%, and lvl 10 gives 30%.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Like Olbaze I'm heavily leaning sage 4.0 (farming the raps/cannys with my wife using mostly my 5.0 BM) but I haven't really seen or talked to any current HT sage 4.0 sins to get much feedback on the damage, survivability, as well as how much a difference the sage spark damage reduction will make, especially against Nirvana bosses.

    It was actually going to be an easier choice for my sin (88) which route to take but the Rank 8 dagger, and hell, even the Rank 9 dagger, is quite insane and boosts unsparked phys dmg by ~ 2,000 at the same refines as the barrier thorn, the Rank 9 dagger having zerk.

    The skills are a whole other ballpark, which is another reason I was heavily favoring sage.
  • ShineZ - Raging Tide
    ShineZ - Raging Tide Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Like Olbaze I'm heavily leaning sage 4.0 (farming the raps/cannys with my wife using mostly my 5.0 BM) but I haven't really seen or talked to any current HT sage 4.0 sins to get much feedback on the damage, survivability, as well as how much a difference the sage spark damage reduction will make, especially against Nirvana bosses.

    It was actually going to be an easier choice for my sin (88) which route to take but the Rank 8 dagger, and hell, even the Rank 9 dagger, is quite insane and boosts unsparked phys dmg by ~ 2,000 at the same refines as the barrier thorn, the Rank 9 dagger having zerk.

    The skills are a whole other ballpark, which is another reason I was heavily favoring sage.

    Yeah im questioning the survivability and tanking ability of a sage 4.0 sin as well...thats why im asking questions on forums...

    Also if i go 4.0 demon with rank 9 would the zerk actually be problematic as ppl say it procs a lot and im not sure if the 2% bloodpaint can cover the 5% hp loss from a zerk... someone noe the answer to these questions?
  • Teglatt - Raging Tide
    Teglatt - Raging Tide Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    God of frenzy is the same as zerk, but with twice the activation chance.

    I know a 5aps sin using 2nd nirvana daggers with -0.05s/hit and zerk. He told me he killed himself more than once because of it. He's almost full +12, too.

    Now, with twice the activation rate, have fun in a graveyard!
  • ShineZ - Raging Tide
    ShineZ - Raging Tide Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Teglatt - Raging Tide wrote: »
    God of frenzy is the same as zerk, but with twice the activation chance.

    I know a 5aps sin using 2nd nirvana daggers with -0.05s/hit and zerk. He told me he killed himself more than once because of it. He's almost full +12, too.

    Now, with twice the activation rate, have fun in a graveyard!

    but if you zerk n deal double damage dont you suck double the amount of hp with bloodpaint too? i guess wat im sayin is does the hp recovery covers up for the 5% max hp loss everytime u zerk
  • BloodyVampie - Heavens Tear
    BloodyVampie - Heavens Tear Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    how about a 5 aps sage sin using the R6 fists (fist of fecalis ??? forgot the name) ? (Sage BP + Sage Wolfemblem on)

    i think that rockz too
  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ShineZ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    but if you zerk n deal double damage dont you suck double the amount of hp with bloodpaint too? i guess wat im sayin is does the hp recovery covers up for the 5% max hp loss everytime u zerk

    The only way they cancel is if you damage total is 2.5x your max HP. Then (2% x 2.5 = 5% of Max HP) = 5% Max HP taken away from sac strike, and if you are sage your damage has to be 1.67x your max HP to cancel the sac strike (3% x 1.67 = 5% of Max HP) = 5% Max HP from sac strike.
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
    "Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."

    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute

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