Would it be worth buying the Phoenix for PvE

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Michibiku - Heavens Tear
Michibiku - Heavens Tear Posts: 23 Arc User
edited December 2010 in Venomancer
I have a lvl 86 veno currently, and I was wondering whether it would really be worth getting a phoenix or not. I DO NOT plan to PVP or do TW so I will not be using the phoenix against other players in any way. Also, I already have a herc, so it is unlikely i will use the phoenix against any land mobs, especially with air pets getting stuck in the ground. Currently I am using a piggy(lvl 73, trying to lvl him atm).
I would hate to raise the money, especially with the current gold prices to buy a phoenix unless it would be really useful for me.
I would think it would not be that useful for me, and mostly a waste of money. BUT, I want to hear some other people's opinions.

To nix or not to nix, that is the question

-Thank you all in advance. :)

-P.S. sorry if this is a repeated question, but I looked around and could not find an answer for my case.
Cleric 9x
> Michibiku
Veno 8x
> Michi_
Barb 7x
> xFireWoodx (computer 2)
Cleric 6x
> Midoni (computer 2)
Wizard 5x
> Shirushi
Assasin 2x
> Hoseki
Archer 2x
> Hikari_Rei
Post edited by Michibiku - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    I want one just for doing air mobs, World Bosses, non instances bosses, culti bosses, etc. Personally, I'd rather have a Nix over a Herc, but... To each their own. :)

    If you aren't going to be soloing any of the above, Or have a windwalking piggy that is your level already, you might want to consider getting a herc instead. A Nix would work better with my Veno build anyway, since I went LA and can tank most mobs myself while the Nix makes a brief snack out of them (I don't have a water pet, I just go Fox Form and kill them petless).
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • Bunnybites - Harshlands
    Bunnybites - Harshlands Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Michibiku - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I have a lvl 86 veno currently, and I was wondering whether it would really be worth getting a phoenix or not. I DO NOT plan to PVP or do TW so I will not be using the phoenix against other players in any way. Also, I already have a herc, so it is unlikely i will use the phoenix against any land mobs, especially with air pets getting stuck in the ground. Currently I am using a piggy(lvl 73, trying to lvl him atm).
    I would hate to raise the money, especially with the current gold prices to buy a phoenix unless it would be really useful for me.
    I would think it would not be that useful for me, and mostly a waste of money. BUT, I want to hear some other people's opinions.

    To nix or not to nix, that is the question

    -Thank you all in advance. :)

    -P.S. sorry if this is a repeated question, but I looked around and could not find an answer for my case.

    My main is a 95 herc/nix/veno. I don't like caves at all and spend most of my time grinding. I got to 95 with no bh's. I have both herc and nix and I really like my nix better. She is so much faster. Just stand on your flyer while fighting and she wont get stuck. I fight everything with the nix, land mobs, air mobs, mini bosses. Even some water mobs that float close to the surface. Hope if you do decide to get a nix you enjoy it as much as I have b:bye
  • SNuppzH - Harshlands
    SNuppzH - Harshlands Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Nix on pve server is realy waste. XD better use 40m 2 make a good grind pet.

    If u like pet w hige patk, is may better get pet w hige patk and learn it pdef and mdef, claw buff :3 it will have better den then nix and almot same dg^^ and ofc save ALOT money/coins
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    SNuppzH lvl 101 Sage Venomancer.
  • Michibiku - Heavens Tear
    Michibiku - Heavens Tear Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Thank you all for your advice. :)
    Cleric 9x
    > Michibiku
    Veno 8x
    > Michi_
    Barb 7x
    > xFireWoodx (computer 2)
    Cleric 6x
    > Midoni (computer 2)
    Wizard 5x
    > Shirushi
    Assasin 2x
    > Hoseki
    Archer 2x
    > Hikari_Rei
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    If you have the money and want to spend it, Nix is THE superior grinding pet in my opinion. Nothing compares to its damage, and if it kills faster it gets hit less. I love grinding with a Nix.

    However, as said above, you can make a pet that does comparably for much less. I frankly would invest your money there, as I don't think the Nix is worth it if you don't plan to participate in TW or PvP. It's like +12-ing a weapon if all you ever do is PvE grinding and instances. +8 will do just fine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Aniella - Harshlands
    Aniella - Harshlands Posts: 729 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Alphae - Lost City wrote: »
    If you have the money and want to spend it, Nix is THE superior grinding pet in my opinion. Nothing compares to its damage, and if it kills faster it gets hit less. I love grinding with a Nix.

    However, as said above, you can make a pet that does comparably for much less. I frankly would invest your money there, as I don't think the Nix is worth it if you don't plan to participate in TW or PvP. It's like +12-ing a weapon if all you ever do is PvE grinding and instances. +8 will do just fine.

    o.o don't u think the best grind pet, is pet u don't need 2 heal and do also a good dg xD

    When i grind w nix, i have 2 heal it 2 times each 4th mob tho. <.<* on patk mobs i need heal it 1st time each 2secd.

    nix have yeah 9k-11k def at lvl 100 XD

    a normal pet w buff will have 15k-18k - so less heal


    and the diff on patk if u choice the rigth pet, its just 800 dg - w claw buff- a bit less dg


    so easy and just 40m <.<* nix cost 75-80m
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
    Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    The number of heals is irrelevant. With another pet it might take me X hits to kill a mob, with a nix it takes me 2 less hits and 1 heal. I've still netted an attack.

    That being said, I don't think it's worth it if its only function is strict PvE.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,161 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Well, at current gold prices I don't think it's worth it strictly for PVE. 70 mil or less though, maybe. I loved using mine to grind, and I didn't run into the land glitch all that often so...
    I think you could easily make up the cost within a few weeks depending on how much you grind. It's pretty nice (for air and land). :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Evict is a sexy chalupa. <3
    retired, etc
  • Aniella - Harshlands
    Aniella - Harshlands Posts: 729 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    lol nix lvl 100 can't kill lvl 96 mobs in 1-2 hit as u say. lol if u wnat test out the true, dowlode perfect world vandetta, start at 100. u can get a nix /sawfly w those buffs there free in 3 sec.. gl w try it out^^

    lol i use it 2 test out what its worth get in pwi^^

    <.< also play a bit on my sis's actb:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
    Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    The best grind pet for the job can depend on the level of the pet, it's speed, the terrain, defenses, HP, patk, atk rate, pet skills, and the characteristics of the mob (kite, range, stun, mag attack, etc).

    For PvE: what would your goals be if not to acquire such things as the legendary pets? The Phoenix is a luxury to have that brings more ways to play.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »
    lol nix lvl 100 can't kill lvl 96 mobs in 1-2 hit as u say. lol if u wnat test out the true, dowlode perfect world vandetta, start at 100. u can get a nix /sawfly w those buffs there free in 3 sec.. gl w try it out^^

    lol i use it 2 test out what its worth get in pwi^^

    <.< also play a bit on my sis's actb:laugh

    I didn't say 1-2 hits, I said 1-2 less.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Nix can kill [?] mobs in 1-2 hits, but so can 102 Scorp with claw + bash.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    tweakz wrote: »
    Nix can kill [?] mobs in 1-2 hits, but so can 102 Scorp with claw + bash.

    Dunno about other servers, but Claw typically sells for 30M+ on sanctuary. SOMETIMES, you'll get really lucky and find it for 12m or around there. The 'legendary pet scrolls' all go for 9m +, I've never seen one for less than 9m.
    101 Sage Sin*/Archer
    100 Demon BM*/Barb
    96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
    95 Demon Wiz/
    94 Sage Veno
    85 Psy/80 Mystic
    And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
    *Pre RB level
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    I saw someone the other day in HT selling a Claw scroll via WC so I made an offer of 15m -- he wanted 50m for it. **** no.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    I bought 3 of mine for 5m ea, but that was when coin was harder to come by. Gold exchange was ~100k per.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Healforwimps - Heavens Tear
    Healforwimps - Heavens Tear Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Its definitley great for grinding in some areas(nievastok shield bearers for example)where the ground is flat,or against air mobs,but when you fly and send it at land based mobs with bumpy terrain sometimes it will still get stuck.

    At current prices though,no it isn't worth it to just pve.
  • Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary
    Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    All i can say is... I love my nix for pve, so it's definately worth it imo
    >.<
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    tweakz wrote: »
    Nix can kill [?] mobs in 1-2 hits, but so can 102 Scorp with claw + bash.
    According to ecatomb, L100 phoenix has 4922 attack @ 1 atk/sec. L100 scorp 4008 attack @ 0.6 atk/sec. Since the phoenix comes with claw, you can ignore it when comparing to a scorp with claw. Bash lets the scorp pull ahead in the first hit, but by 2 seconds the phoenix is ahead in total damage.

    Scorp + bash
    8016 @ 0 sec
    12024 @ 1.67 sec
    16032 @ 3.33 sec
    20040 @ 5 sec
    24048 @ 6.67 sec
    28056 @ 8.33 sec
    36072 @ 10 sec
    40080 @ 11.67 sec
    44088 @ 13.33 sec
    48096 @ 15
    52104 @ 16.67 sec
    56112 @ 18.33 sec
    64128 @ 20 sec

    Phoenix
    4922 @ 0 sec
    9844 @ 1 sec
    14766 @ 2 sec
    19688 @ 3 sec
    24610 @ 4 sec
    29532 @ 5 sec
    34454 @ 6 sec
    39376 @ 7 sec
    44298 @ 8 sec
    49220 @ 9 sec
    54142 @ 10 sec
    59064 @ 11 sec
    63986 @ 12 sec
    68908 @ 13 sec
    73830 @ 14 sec
    78752 @ 15 sec
    83674 @ 16 sec
    88596 @ 17 sec
    93518 @ 18 sec
    98440 @ 19 sec
    103362 @ 20 sec (61% more than the scorp, 109% more than a scorp w/o Claw)

    You can close the gap some if you load up the claw-scorp with 3 total Bash-type skills. The phoenix takes about 4 sec to pull ahead in damage then, and is about 29% ahead after 20 sec. This is with Pounce turned off. The skill is a slight net increase in damage, but the time to use it at the start of a fight makes it take almost the full 15 sec for it to be a net gain for the phoenix. So I just turn it off except for against bosses.

    I have Strong on my phoenix and use it against Blackhole for my OHT daily. It kills Blackhole faster than even the herc getting reflect damage. It is unquestionably the highest DPS veno pet. Whether that extra DPS is worth the cost is for you to decide. It also tends to get stuck in terrain.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Lol, the numbers are almost always misleading.

    1) Scorp kills weak and sacrificial Icewind Grunts in 1 one hit with claw + bash. Increased life, and def are only times Nix might be quicker, but they seem to balance out with the weak/ sacs.
    2) Elemental Bashes on Icewind Grunts, Priests, Assassins, and other OHT map mobs hit less than a normal atk.
    3) Scorp doesn't get stuck in the ground.
    4) When dealing with 1-2-3 hit kills: pounce is a total waste of time unless it's manually done to prevent kiting.

    Phoenix can handle Blackhole w/o Strong skill.

    Because Nix's atk rate is so fast; it's not worth putting bash on except for aggro.

    When dealing with mobs that die in 1-3 hits from a pet: a pet getting stuck in the ground becomes a bigger issue. Slightly slower killing / moving may benefit pets on Protect status as the mobs are drawn to them.

    All that said, in my experience: the nix is the best pet for rounding up Icewind Assassins and Priests for AoE. Herc can do it, but it's slower and the DD pets lack the survivability. Nix doesn't appear to be the best pet for Icewind Grunts, Icewind Snipers (cactus from Eden is better), etc but it kicks butt where it is good.

    A lot has to do with the way you want to grind.

    With the time you may end up spending on these OHT mobs, it might be nice to have some variety to your approach. I can't see why anyone would play a veno as main and not go for a Nix. What would be the point of playing if not going for such an easy goal that makes the game that much better?
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Aniella - Harshlands
    Aniella - Harshlands Posts: 729 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Scope is bets dd pet on ground, if u guys don't get that! - nix can't be in fc,tt,fb,bh
    sawfly is the 2sed best air pet.

    (i use another act for that tho)I grind w lvl 100 nux, XD lol he do around 6k w claw and he can't 1 hit a lvl 96 mobs.

    And Alphae how the hell can ur lowbe nux hit spider 1 hit, w lvl 100 nux need 5?

    And if it wasnt for buff herc/nix had not been op pets - they had been like normal pets. so Pet buffs do 90% of the epic ****.

    at lvl 100 it have 4k patk w claw 5kb:laugh

    "atm i brougth claw for lol 4m"

    o.o and skils not hard 2 get , may ur damn lucky and get in in DT if u do it everytime. or save.

    "Well if u guys use ur mind on money/ time and not the best pet, do u wnat lure ppl 2 waste their food money or life hrs on game, u may will or must quite 2 play. NO1 will play this game forever".
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
    Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Even for PVE the nix is worth it. Hell, I used it to fight water mobs at the surface too (I got mine in the late 70s last year so I got my first test on those water mobs not far from WQ Book #29) and it's better than the water pets.
  • Alphae - Lost City
    Alphae - Lost City Posts: 1,512 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »
    Scope is bets dd pet on ground, if u guys don't get that! - nix can't be in fc,tt,fb,bh
    sawfly is the 2sed best air pet.

    (i use another act for that tho)I grind w lvl 100 nux, XD lol he do around 6k w claw and he can't 1 hit a lvl 96 mobs.

    And Alphae how the hell can ur lowbe nux hit spider 1 hit, w lvl 100 nux need 5?

    And if it wasnt for buff herc/nix had not been op pets - they had been like normal pets. so Pet buffs do 90% of the epic ****.

    at lvl 100 it have 4k patk w claw 5kb:laugh

    "atm i brougth claw for lol 4m"

    o.o and skils not hard 2 get , may ur damn lucky and get in in DT if u do it everytime. or save.

    "Well if u guys use ur mind on money/ time and not the best pet, do u wnat lure ppl 2 waste their food money or life hrs on game, u may will or must quite 2 play. NO1 will play this game forever".

    You don't read very well. I said that it reduces the hits by 1-2, versus other pets.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Healforwimps - Heavens Tear
    Healforwimps - Heavens Tear Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    What was the nix a year ago ,20mil to 25mil ingame coin or thereabouts?Then it would have been worth the cost for pve,but now?

    Someone explain to me how having a nix for the cost of todays gold is worth strictly pve,when as someone else said it will not work for any instance,and all you will be able to fight is some normal mobs/oht mobs.

    You won't make the money back on nix grinding...unless you can sit for 10 hours a day everyday for a few months.

    What price convenience?
  • LongWushi - Heavens Tear
    LongWushi - Heavens Tear Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Nixes are good for air mobs if you ever feel like doing such quests. They can tank some of the nasty elites/mini-bosses you have to go up against pretty well. That tango gets a bit rougher in Heaven/Hell but they still do a good job. I got requests all the time to help Wizzies and Clerics and others kill the air mobs as part of their 99 culti (and then some just wanted help with an old air quest).
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Yeah - the nix is wonderful. Lovely. Glorious. Won't give mine up!

    But no WAY is it worth the coin now.

    Heck, if you really must have an overpowered airpet, you can build a nix replacement by slapping claw on a wasp, for a fraction of the price and most (though not all) of the benefit.

    Heck, it's pretty hard to justify even the herc on pure cost/benefit nowadays.

    Edit: As an aspirational pet - oh yes. Very yes. It is the shiniest fashion accessory ever.
    I also leave pounce turned off, I love having it available for stunning adds when I make a mistake.
    The hill problem is overstated, it's pretty easy to get used to jumping before attacking - I'm using the nix to hunt cleavehands in that hilly area near harpy and it's no trouble there.

    And yes, the nix is surprsingly good for AOE grinding. The only problem is, it kills stuff too fast and I often end up AOEing only 1 or 2 mobs.

    I am also far less able to steal from the nix than from a herc. Which is an advantage that hasn't been mentioned - though I would be even less able to steal from the uber-scorpion others have suggested.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Lol, what else are you going to spend your coin on?

    Claw on wasp? - fail.
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Tweaks? Go away you nasty little troll.

    Most players do not have a surfeit of coin.
    Claw on a wasp is as close to a nix as they ever actually need to get - and yes, even it is a waste of coin.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    even it is a waste of coin.

    -that's all you need to say, but you could answer: what else to do with coin? Is there really a better goal?
    Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.
  • Aniella - Harshlands
    Aniella - Harshlands Posts: 729 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    tweakz wrote: »
    Lol, what else are you going to spend your coin on?

    Claw on wasp? - fail.

    b:victory lol fail troll atm.


    :D sawfly w claw is epic and ONLY 1 on server w 1b:laugh

    why its waste,. its more waste use 80m on pet <.<* i don't only have claw but pdef/mdef buff aswell atm- not put em on pet yet tho XD

    whats point w nix/herc . i use my sis act if i wnat play w those tho <.< she have herc/nix- work fine for me use her char. but i only like do tt w it.

    tweakz i think u don't play pwi:P cuz ur not on any servers,and i have seen char named tweakz on privat server. :3
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
    Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL
  • Mauntille - Heavens Tear
    Mauntille - Heavens Tear Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited December 2010
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    Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »
    whats point w nix/herc . i use my sis act if i wnat play w those tho <.< she have herc/nix- work fine for me use her char. but i only like do tt w it

    I don't understand your logic. How is it that you can say that it isn't worth it to get a herc/nix and yet you'll switch over to your sister's account and use her herc for tt?

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