For everyone asking about PW-MY's upcoming APS "nerf"...

24

Comments

  • Dezto - Harshlands
    Dezto - Harshlands Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Lmao, this kid must be trolling and he got all of you b:chuckle
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    @Olbaze
    What I meant was that they replace the -.0x mod on equips to + % attack Speed. Say instead of -0.05 have 10% more attack speed and instead of 0.01 have it as 20%.

    That way the max you can achieve is 90% more attack speed. Converting that to -interval would be more balanced I guess.

    In relation to fists...you would probably achieve 2.70 as base with max gear. Add to this wind shield and demon spark (30% increase means 3.5 APS) and you would probably not be able to perma spark.

    This would further give other classes equal footing as well since the DPS would be much lower with fists.

    There are a few problems with that.

    As I already pointed out, the game already has +attack speed%, just that it's not really +attack speed%, it's just called that.

    Also, right now, +attack speed% does not stack, you can only have one of them effective at a time. So Cyclone Heel -> Demon Spark only gives you 25%, not 37%.

    So they'd have to re-define everything that relates to attack speed in the game, which would be a lot of work.

    Also, the actual massive DPS with high APS does not come from the number of attacks per second, but the fact that it gives them permanent Demon Spark or Sage Spark, which gives them a huge boost in DPH.

    Now, Assassins can permaspark at much lower intervals than others. This creates a problem: If you make it so that non-Assassins cannot permaspark, then that will lead to Assassins being overpowered. On the other hand, if you make it so that even Assassins cannot permaspark, that leads to non-Assassins being far too weak.

    Of course, since high APS is just an alternative build for all non-assassins, the best solution would be one the first kind: killing off an unintended build (fist barbs, fist archers, fist venos) is better than killing off an entire class. As for BMs, it'd just cause them to use other weapons instead, but it certainly wouldn't break the class.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    i see some archers hiding behind the mask of other classes


    op is no archer tho




    and, wtf
    get ur math back into Archer forums!
    i like potato
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Ellestor - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Again, PW-MY already has the patch in testing, W2 (PW-CH) hasn't implemented it yet.

    No they don't. Cubizone has pretty much confirmed that the only thing they're working on gameplay-wise at the moment for PW MY is getting Nirvana up and running...which has an ETA of about six months currently. Besides, there are so few 5aps people on MY that it wouldn't even be worth it to implement something like this.

    Also, there are utterly no posts about this on MY's forums. Of course, you could start one, but you'll probably be eaten alive by us jaded trolls. The last five or so PWI ******* tasted good at least...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • Willbert - Dreamweaver
    Willbert - Dreamweaver Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    @Ellestor

    From the reply youve quoted, I believe even the PW staff (if it were a Dev...am shocked) doesnt know how the ingame mechanics work.

    Perhaps you could reply to them stating the following example:-

    Lets consider a fist with base attack speed of 1.43 aps. In essence, it does 1.43 attacks per second and if you calculate as below, you will get that the defaul interval for fist is 0.69 (i.e. there is an 1 attack after every 0.69 seconds)

    1.43 attacks = 1 sec
    1 attack = x

    x = 1/ 1.43 = 0.69

    Now add a -0.05 gear and you get 0.64 interval with the fist

    So,

    1 attack every 0.64 sec
    x attack every 1 sec

    x = 1 / 0.64 = 1.5625

    Now jump to your setup of -0.45 interval gear. With fists your attack would become as following

    1 attack every 0.69 - 0.45 = 0.24
    x attack every 1 sec

    x = 1/ 0.22 = 4.5454

    I am not sure on how the rounding works but I guess am close to what I wanted to say.

    Add a further speed boost skill (demon spark / second wind) and it would probably over shoot 5 aps but since the cap is 5...youre stuck there.

    So unless you say that they failed maths or dont understand what they implemented, I do not see a bug here.

    If they wish to change how attack speed boosts should work, one probably change I can see is that they remove -interval completely and replace with % attack speed similar to % channeling but with slightly higher values (since we dont have as many equips with -interval as you have -channeling)

    What if the -.45 was to be added to the weapons atk speed.. eg.. 1.43 + .45 = 1.88 Then use the mulitiplier to find the atk per sec. Perhaps this was the concept.. but the programming was done wrong. And instead of fixing it.. got lazy and let it slide.

    And yes.. like the OP.. I agree with his numbers.. For a balanced PARTY in PW.. regardless of servers.. it makes more sense for a single class to go up in smaller intervals then your wishful thinking of fixing the multiplier. The game was designed for group playing.. not some solo player gaining such skills to carry others. To think otherwise leads me to believe some want hacks for their egos.. not for the squad.
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What if the -.45 was to be added to the weapons atk speed.. eg.. 1.43 + .45 = 1.88 Then use the mulitiplier to find the atk per sec. Perhaps this was the concept.. but the programming was done wrong. And instead of fixing it.. got lazy and let it slide.

    well, what if chan was supposed to work for chan+cast times.

    it clearly states attack per second and interval bettween attacks = sec.
    now if we want to multiply hamsters with cheese..

    btw hes, did i mention that i want to play an archer lately?
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What if the -.45 was to be added to the weapons atk speed.. eg.. 1.43 + .45 = 1.88 Then use the mulitiplier to find the atk per sec. Perhaps this was the concept.. but the programming was done wrong. And instead of fixing it.. got lazy and let it slide.

    If that was the case, they would not use a negative symbol, since you want to add it to your attack speed.
  • Willbert - Dreamweaver
    Willbert - Dreamweaver Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    well, what if chan was supposed to work for chan+cast times.

    it clearly states attack per second and interval bettween attacks = sec.
    now if we want to multiply hamsters with cheese..

    btw hes, did i mention that i want to play an archer lately?

    ugh.. my edit got wiped.. to you and ppl like you.. wishful thinking on wanting a **** to drag others in a squad who are not needed. Its a game based on co-op and team support. Adding in a deffective **** as this only feeds ppl's egos.
  • Willbert - Dreamweaver
    Willbert - Dreamweaver Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If that was the case, they would not use a negative symbol, since you want to add it to your attack speed.

    Using a negative symbol makes perfect sense. As you're taking away how much time allotted to an attack. So if an attack was 1.43 and you wish to make it faster.. you would want to minus how long it takes.. so -.05 will give you 1.48 in attacks. meaning your attacks per sec is faster.

    But hacks and those who are on ego trips rather minus from the multiplier to increase their attacks.. as the program is doing in the game..

    I'm sure the developers made a huge blunder and fixing it was either difficult or they were very lazy and didn't understand how much damage it would cause a game that is built around Squads... A mess they will not freely admit.. Their to humble with huge honors and egos too.

    So changes are coming to alter the aps.. a move that suports that it was not intentioned, or they would leave it as is.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    using a negative symbol makes perfect sense. As you're taking away how much time alotted to an attack. So if an attack was 1.43 and you wish to make it faster.. you would want to minus how long it takes.. so -.05 will give you 1.48 in attacks. meaning your atks per sec is faster. But hacks and those who are on ego trips rather minus from the multiplier to increase their attacks.. as the program is doing in the game.. but I'm sure the developers made a huge blunder and fixing it was difficult or they were very lazy and didnt understand how much damage it would cause a game that is built around Squads... A mess they will not freely admit.. Their to humble with huge honours and egos too.

    EDIT: You're almost there. Think about your math some more and you'll see how it works.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What if the -.45 was to be added to the weapons atk speed.. eg.. 1.43 + .45 = 1.88 Then use the mulitiplier to find the atk per sec. Perhaps this was the concept.. but the programming was done wrong. And instead of fixing it.. got lazy and let it slide.

    That is an extremely unlikely scenario. Why? Compare the two:
    1. Right now, interval is a reduction. In your proposition, it's an addition.
    2. Right now, interval works off attack interval. In your proposition, it works on it's inverse.
    3. Right now, +attack speed% is actually -interval%. In your proposition, it's the negative inverse of that.

    What I'm getting at is that the differences are so large that the programmers would have to have extremely bad handling of mathematics to make such misses. And that'd basically mean that the game wouldn't work at all.
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    well, what if chan was supposed to work for chan+cast times.

    On a level, that would make sense, since -interval speeds up the animation, whereas -channeling% only reduces the channeling, which is only one of the two animations with any given spell.

    However, if it affected both, it might get you some bugs with certain fast channeling skills. For example:
    Twin Strike
    Channel 0.1 seconds
    Cast 0.9 seconds

    Depending on how the game rounds channeling, having enough of it here could cause for Twin Strike to turn into Instant Channel. That, unless handled properly, could cause bugs.

    And for anyone doubting my origins: My previous main and my first character was an Archer, currently level 92.
    Using a negative symbol makes perfect sense. As you're taking away how much time allotted to an attack. So if an attack was 1.43 and you wish to make it faster.. you would want to minus how long it takes.. so -.05 will give you 1.48 in attacks. meaning your attacks per sec is faster.

    The minus still does not make logical sense. You're increasing the attack speed, not reducing it.
    But hacks and those who are on ego trips rather minus from the multiplier to increase their attacks.. as the program is doing in the game..

    Actually, it's a reduction from the inverse of attack speed. That is, the "cooldown" between attacks.
    So changes are coming to alter the aps.. a move that suports that it was not intentioned, or they would leave it as is.

    Actually, it's much more likely that they didn't expect for the community to be so extremely result-oriented that the non-attack speed classes would get shunned.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ugh.. my edit got wiped.. to you and ppl like you.. wishful thinking on wanting a **** to drag others in a squad who are not needed. Its a game based on co-op and team support. Adding in a deffective **** as this only feeds ppl's egos.

    er, not sure if u mean that i want this whole 5aps thingy to farm alone but check my avatar, i'm the person without a job pve-wise
  • ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear
    ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Eagerly awaiting OP to return and admit his/her math SUX.

    But expecting him/her to just rage and argue harder.

    <munches popcorn>
  • Willbert - Dreamweaver
    Willbert - Dreamweaver Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That is an extremely unlikely scenario. Why? Compare the two:
    1. Right now, interval is a reduction. In your proposition, it's an addition.
    2. Right now, interval works off attack interval. In your proposition, it works on it's inverse.
    3. Right now, +attack speed% is actually -interval%. In your proposition, it's the negative inverse of that.

    What I'm getting at is that the differences are so large that the programmers would have to have extremely bad handling of mathematics to make such misses. And that'd basically mean that the game wouldn't work at all.


    I'll let you deal with all the tickets players send in to PW on a regular bases about bugs in the game. lol.. you so naive to think there are no bugs. not even of this proportion.. I understand the attraction and power in having such skills for a class.. but it was not meant to be.

    Unless I am told otherwise by a programmer for PW on what was meant to be.. I'll take your suggestions and others like you with a grain of salt.. As far as I can tell.. it's wishful thinking to be pimped out like this. Sure.. it was fun as it grew.. but changed the dynamics of a squad significantly.. Guess they were not smart enough to realize just how damaging it would be to a server.. they got very lazy and cheap. To fix it means cash out of their pockets. It is a business and we all know how they like to take shortcuts at the expense of others.

    I read a post where a developer commented that the game was to be based around the barb and cleric... and then add the other classes.. Well .. we're not seeing that now are we. They had vision.. but were not practical. They are human after all and make mistakes.

    To suggest this is how the game should be built with these kinds of stats on a class is not grasping the whole design of the lazy game developers.
  • ElderSig - Dreamweaver
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    er, not sure if u mean that i want this whole 5aps thingy to farm alone but check my avatar, i'm the person without a job pve-wise

    b:cry I'm with you.

    And remember Wilbert, you're getting interval between hits and attack rate confused. They affect each other but they are not the same.

    1.43 = base fist attack rate

    .69s = base fist interval between hits

    Now think about it.

    P.S. Do I think it's broken PvE-wise? Yes. But it is working as intended sadly.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ImNotFeelnIt - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Eagerly awaiting OP to return and admit his/her math SUX.

    But expecting him/her to just rage and argue harder.

    <munches popcorn>

    I want OP to argue that these changes are, in fact, coming to MY.

    Just so I can disprove him further with LOGIC~~~

    *munches on cookies*
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'll let you deal with all the tickets players send in to PW on a regular bases about bugs in the game. lol.. you so naive to think there are no bugs. not even of this proportion.. I understand the attraction and power in having such skills for a class.. but it was not meant to be.

    Um... where exactly did I say anything along the lines of there not being any bugs in the game?

    If you understood math, you'd realize that making that kind of a mistake would mean that they wouldn't have a proper grasp of the basics of mathematics. That would mean that they couldn't possibly program stuff like damage calculations, stat point additions and the like properly. And as far as I know, those are mostly correct in the game.
    Unless I am told otherwise by a programmer for PW on what was meant to be.. I'll take your suggestions and others like you with a grain of salt.. As far as I can tell.. it's wishful thinking to be pimped out like this. Sure.. it was fun as it grew.. but changed the dynamics of a squad significantly.. Guess they were not smart enough to realize just how damaging it would be to a server.. they got very lazy and cheap. To fix it means cash out of their pockets. It is a business and we all know how they like to take shortcuts at the expense of others.

    Actually, it's massive cash into their pockets, since people are cash shopping fist BMs and sins to farm for profit in Nirvana.
    I read a post where a developer commented that the game was to be based around the barb and cleric... and then add the other classes.. Well .. we're not seeing that now are we. They had vision.. but were not practical. They are human after all and make mistakes.

    The whole "barb and cleric" thing was, in itself, bad and flawed. Pre-APS, if you went to a TT as an Archer or a Wizard, you barely got anything out of it unless you were doing it with a faction or friends. This is because the mentality of people was the opposite of what it's now. It was "my costs are higher and my contribution is necessary, so I get to profit the most". Now it's "to profit the most, we need the contribution of these and not the contribution of those."
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Willbert - Dreamweaver
    Willbert - Dreamweaver Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:cry I'm with you.

    And remember Wilbert, you're getting interval between hits and attack rate confused. They affect each other but they are not the same.

    1.43 = base fist attack rate

    .69s = base fist interval between hits

    Now think about it.

    P.S. Do I think it's broken PvE-wise? Yes. But it is working as intended sadly.

    Says who that its working as intented? Please supply a link to a programer from PW or a Dev. that says that.

    It does work that way.. but until I hear from an employee, I'll believe it was not intended.

    I keep hearing in other forums that the devs and GM's don't give specifics on the mechanics.

    Just because it does.. does mean it was meant to be.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Says who that its working as intented? Please supply a link to a programer from PW or a Dev. that says that.

    It does work that way.. but until I hear from an employee, I'll believe it was not intended.

    I keep hearing in other forums that the devs and GM's don't give specifics on the mechanics.

    Just because it does.. does mean it was meant to be.

    But on the other hand, the inverse is also true:
    Just because it works the way it does, doesn't mean that it wasn't meant to work that way

    Also, from a purely logical point of view, you have more reason to assume that the game mechanic is working as intended, but the problem was the result it had on the community. After all, -interval has been the way it was since the game was made and the game was first published over five years ago.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Says who that its working as intented? Please supply a link to a programer from PW or a Dev. that says that.

    I think we are more referring to what you in particular stated below:
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Using a negative symbol makes perfect sense. As you're taking away how much time allotted to an attack. So if an attack was 1.43 and you wish to make it faster.. you would want to minus how long it takes.. so -.05 will give you 1.48 in attacks. meaning your attacks per sec is faster.

    You say "Using a negative symbol makes perfect sense. As you're taking away how much time allotted to an attack."

    You are correct with this statement.

    I pose the question to you: if the attack speed is 1.43 attacks per second, what is the alloted time for an attack?

    Hint: It is not 1.43.
  • Willbert - Dreamweaver
    Willbert - Dreamweaver Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Um... where exactly did I say anything along the lines of there not being any bugs in the game?

    If you understood math, you'd realize that making that kind of a mistake would mean that they wouldn't have a proper grasp of the basics of mathematics. That would mean that they couldn't possibly program stuff like damage calculations, stat point additions and the like properly. And as far as I know, those are mostly correct in the game.

    Not refering to other machanics in the game.. just that this one specific is broken. You're saying because other aspects of the game works.. so does this one.. sigh.. ok.. nice logic if YOU accept it to be true.

    Actually, it's massive cash into their pockets, since people are cash shopping fist BMs and sins to farm for profit in Nirvana.



    The whole "barb and cleric" thing was, in itself, bad and flawed. Pre-APS, if you went to a TT as an Archer or a Wizard, you barely got anything out of it unless you were doing it with a faction or friends. This is because the mentality of people was the opposite of what it's now. It was "my costs are higher and my contribution is necessary, so I get to profit the most". Now it's "to profit the most, we need the contribution of these and not the contribution of those."


    Again.. we are going based on the premises of what YOU think it should be. Not the developers. I only paraphased what a Dev said. You on the other hand are giving your opinion on what it should be.


    Anyhow.. here ends my interest in this thread. We'll all have to wait and deal with any forthcoming changes.. and work out what we can and cannot not do with what is provide..

    cheers
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I think we are more referring to what you in particular stated below:

    I pose the question to you: if the attack speed is 1.43 attacks per second, what is the alloted time for an attack?

    Hint: It is not 1.43.

    Can I omochikaeri you?

    b:cute
    Not refering to other machanics in the game.. just that this one specific is broken. You're saying because other aspects of the game works.. so does this one.. sigh.. ok.. nice logic if YOU accept it to be true.

    Um, logic has no opinion, unfortunately. A cat is still a cat even if I think it's a rat.
    Again.. we are going based on the premises of what YOU think it should be. Not the developers. I only paraphased what a Dev said. You on the other hand are giving your opinion on what it should be.

    I never said anything about what I believe the game should be like. Just that the "Barb and Cleric" approach was flawed as was observed by the fact that DDs were shunned. Though, that should've been a clue to the way the community thinks, that it's extremely result oriented.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Can I omochikaeri you?

    b:cute

    No.
    .....
  • ElderSig - Dreamweaver
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Just so you people realize because I've seen some confusion.

    The ticket the OP quoted was the ticket HE sent NOT the response from GM/Dev to said ticket.

    @Wilbert

    The reason I said it's working as intended, is that it works as it was designed to.

    Now whether the consequences of that design were what the developers wanted is a different story, none of us can prove what they intended to design. But it does work as it is designed to work.

    You following me?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Willbert - Dreamweaver
    Willbert - Dreamweaver Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I think we are more referring to what you in particular stated below:



    You say "Using a negative symbol makes perfect sense. As you're taking away how much time allotted to an attack."

    You are correct with this statement.

    I pose the question to you: if the attack speed is 1.43 attacks per second, what is the alloted time for an attack?

    Hint: It is not 1.43.

    Pose it to a programer and the DEVs. They know best what they wanted.. and from what I hear.. are going to fix their mistakes. They are better suited to answer your inquiry as I do not work for PW nor think I know what they think.


    Cheers
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    No.
    .....

    ... Why not?b:question
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Says who that its working as intented? Please supply a link to a programer from PW or a Dev. that says that.

    It does work that way.. but until I hear from an employee, I'll believe it was not intended.

    I keep hearing in other forums that the devs and GM's don't give specifics on the mechanics.

    Just because it does.. does mean it was meant to be.


    hey, it's one thing not trusting conspiracy theories and other being naive.
    they even changed the chi gain per hit from 4 to 5 for bms.
    that enabled them to permaspark.

    the logic behind the skills description work.

    now if we are going to ignore all these we might also start wondering...

    IH is too powerful heal, hell, the description doesnt say that it can stack. clerics are supposed to use blessing of the purehearted, it's the starter skill after all!

    etc etc.

    denial much? sucks to loose second pick i guess
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Willbert - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Pose it to a programer and the DEVs. They know best what they wanted.. and from what I hear.. are going to fix their mistakes. They are better suited to answer your inquiry as I do not work for PW nor think I know what they think.


    Cheers

    The answer is somewhere between both of your arguements. There was a Q&A with the developers in the announcement of the genesis expansion. The question was posed about 5APS, and paraphrasing, the dev said its working as they intended, but they didnt think it would have the effect on gameplay or that ppl would be able to pile it on so high. Basically it was poorly thought out, but it was how they intended it to work. It just sort of grew from there original vision into an untameable monster.

    Also, if they had bothered (in development) to check their math, they should have just made it -% Interval. If we look at channelling, no matter how fast, or slow, your casting is, you get the same returns in DPS. For example, should you have -50% (easy to visualize), a 1 second spell becomes .5 seconds, while a 2 second spell becomes 1 second. In both cases, you're able to cast twice as much as you could before (assuming a spell cycle and not waiting on direct cooldowns). If you're DPS with no channel is 10,000/sec, then with -50% it would be 20,000. They yeild the same increase, %-wise, regardless of the spell's speed its applied to.

    Now if you look at -Interval, it has increasing returns for faster weapons. Fists have speed 1.43, or an Interval of .7. When they get -.45 Interval, they just down to an Interval of .25, or a speed of 4. They get a 180% (+original 100%) increase in DPS. However Axes have a speed .83, or an interval of 1.2. When they get -.45 Interval (the same bonus, should give same increase in DPS, in "idea"), they go down to .75 interval, or a speed of 1.333. They get only a 60% (+original 100%) increase in DPS. So Fists get 3x as much increase in DPS as Axes do. This is the poorly thought out part of implementation.

    If that same -.45 Interval became -45% Interval watch what happens. Fists .7 Interval becomes .385 Interval or a speed of 2.6. 2.6/1.43 = an 82% (+original 100%) increase in DPS. Axes 1.2 Interval becomes .66 Interval or a speed of 1.52. 1.52/.83 = an 82% (+original 100%) increase in DPS. Now suddenly their boost match, just as -channeling works. This is how it should have been implemented, and probably how they envisioned the balance would be maintained. They just failed hard at it.
  • Haden - Dreamweaver
    Haden - Dreamweaver Posts: 376 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Roseary - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I keep forgetting we don't come to the forums to have intelligent conversations, only to flame and call each other names.

    you should put this in your sig Roseary b:laugh
    Good intentions are like peeing yourself in dark leather pants, you get warm feelings inside, but it doesn't show.
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If that same -.45 Interval became -45% Interval watch what happens. Fists .7 Interval becomes .385 Interval or a speed of 2.6. 2.6/1.43 = an 82% (+original 100%) increase in DPS. Axes 1.2 Interval becomes .66 Interval or a speed of 1.52. 1.52/.83 = an 82% (+original 100%) increase in DPS. Now suddenly their boost match, just as -channeling works. This is how it should have been implemented, and probably how they envisioned the balance would be maintained. They just failed hard at it.

    Um, it's not quite that simple.

    -45% on a 0.7 interval fist would get you 0.385 interval yes, but this would be rounded up to 0.4, or 2.5 aps.

    Also, if you now used Demon Spark on this 0.7 interval fist, you'd get 0.21 interval, or 5 aps.

    The only thing that it would change is the requirements for getting 5 aps. It'd look like this:
    -5%: 1.54 aps (2 aps sparked)
    -10%: 1.54 aps (2.22 aps sparked)
    -15%: 1.67 aps (2.5 aps sparked)
    -20%: 1.82 aps (2.5 aps sparked)
    -25%: 2.00 aps (2.86 aps sparked)
    -30%: 2.00 aps (3.33 aps sparked)
    -35%: 2.22 aps (3.33 aps sparked)
    -40%: 2.50 aps ( 4.00 aps sparked)
    -45%: 2.50 aps (5.00 aps sparked)
    -50%: 2.86 aps (5.00 aps sparked)
    -55%: 3.33 aps (6.67 aps sparked)

    And this is assuming that each -0.05 is converted to -5%. And that list is only true of Fists.

    So what you are suggesting wouldn't affect fists at all in terms of eliminating 5 aps. It also wouldn't change the ability of Assassins to get 5 aps.

    With this change, BMs would require every single piece of -attack% in the game to get 5 aps. That's only 1 more than it's currently. For the others, it wouldn't change anything, other than making Daggers max at 2.86 aps unsparked instead of 4.00.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
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