Some ideas about solving aps
Haden - Dreamweaver
Posts: 376 Arc User
I'm writing this in hopes that maybe it will be taken as a suggestion for future expansions. to aid in balancing with the other classes.
The problem lays in squads only wanting to run with 4-5aps. When you state that you're not of said orientation, you get either punted, or treated as an opener. If you want to run a Nirvana with lower than a certain attacks per second, (I only have 2) you do have to set it up on your own. However, the issue still remains that people will still leave parties, if the tank is stated as "Not having aps."
This became a problem when random aggro was placed onto the bosses there.
Suggestion?
Make multiple Nirvana run modes:
Solo mode Nirvana: which has a chance to the "normal amount of chests" the bosses are simpler to fight, allowing non-aps classes to either catch up in damage output, or if they so desire, to build aps.
Squad mode Nirvana: Having a chance to drop "2-3" chests ber boss. Keep the same boss random aggro, but make it drop easier.
I dunno.....
Fixing the APS issue needs to be done, but PWI doesnt seem interested in fixing the issue, nor balancing PVE so that all classes can enjoy it. APS isnt a new thing to PWI, and has been constituted since it was made.
Well..... They could do what private servers do.
Make having more than 3aps a bannable offense.
they could;
Make Claws and fists class specific, which would be bad for their income, because their larger cash shop players would then not want to spend money in game.
Mabye they could;
Make 4-5 aps harder to obtain? By lowering the - interval aquired per piece of equipment? Again that would cause cash shoppers to leave the game, because they already spent large quantities of dollars in game.
A good suggestion could be;
To give a damage increase to classes using their class specific weapons. Increasing Mastery damages per class. Decreasing damage dealt from classes that dont have masteries for certain weapon types, by 50%; such as an archer using claws that have a base damage of 498-673, instead they would have a base attack for that specific weapon of 249 - 336. However if the archer used a bow, which the base damage would be 1195-2219, plus their mastery and dex, would get an additional boon of 50% for using a class specific weapon.
An easier way to say this would be a bm using a set of claws would get +20 attack level, while a barb, sin, archer, would ger -20.
Even the possibilty of giving - interval when wielding class specific weapons, such as bow crossbow, slingshot, axe. by .1 or greater.
of course you could also increase -channeling on casters too, using the same method.
doing this wouldn't completely discourage people from using aps weapons, but it would breathe some life back into non aps classes, such as wizards, Psys, clerics venos and archers. Remember its just a suggestion.
The problem lays in squads only wanting to run with 4-5aps. When you state that you're not of said orientation, you get either punted, or treated as an opener. If you want to run a Nirvana with lower than a certain attacks per second, (I only have 2) you do have to set it up on your own. However, the issue still remains that people will still leave parties, if the tank is stated as "Not having aps."
This became a problem when random aggro was placed onto the bosses there.
Suggestion?
Make multiple Nirvana run modes:
Solo mode Nirvana: which has a chance to the "normal amount of chests" the bosses are simpler to fight, allowing non-aps classes to either catch up in damage output, or if they so desire, to build aps.
Squad mode Nirvana: Having a chance to drop "2-3" chests ber boss. Keep the same boss random aggro, but make it drop easier.
I dunno.....
Fixing the APS issue needs to be done, but PWI doesnt seem interested in fixing the issue, nor balancing PVE so that all classes can enjoy it. APS isnt a new thing to PWI, and has been constituted since it was made.
Well..... They could do what private servers do.
Make having more than 3aps a bannable offense.
they could;
Make Claws and fists class specific, which would be bad for their income, because their larger cash shop players would then not want to spend money in game.
Mabye they could;
Make 4-5 aps harder to obtain? By lowering the - interval aquired per piece of equipment? Again that would cause cash shoppers to leave the game, because they already spent large quantities of dollars in game.
A good suggestion could be;
To give a damage increase to classes using their class specific weapons. Increasing Mastery damages per class. Decreasing damage dealt from classes that dont have masteries for certain weapon types, by 50%; such as an archer using claws that have a base damage of 498-673, instead they would have a base attack for that specific weapon of 249 - 336. However if the archer used a bow, which the base damage would be 1195-2219, plus their mastery and dex, would get an additional boon of 50% for using a class specific weapon.
An easier way to say this would be a bm using a set of claws would get +20 attack level, while a barb, sin, archer, would ger -20.
Even the possibilty of giving - interval when wielding class specific weapons, such as bow crossbow, slingshot, axe. by .1 or greater.
of course you could also increase -channeling on casters too, using the same method.
doing this wouldn't completely discourage people from using aps weapons, but it would breathe some life back into non aps classes, such as wizards, Psys, clerics venos and archers. Remember its just a suggestion.
Good intentions are like peeing yourself in dark leather pants, you get warm feelings inside, but it doesn't show.
Post edited by Haden - Dreamweaver on
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Comments
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Or the casters and low aps characters could just...like...go to Nirvana? Players with 5.0 are hardly the majority, if you just got refused a nirvana by the 5.0-elite-cashsquad, instead of raging that "no one" lets you in Nirvana, form a squad with people your own level of cash (there are thousands out there) and do the instance.
Have to agree that people will leave parties if the tank isn't 5.0. Which is a problem and kinda sad, because you're talking axe bm's, wizzies and venos QQ-quitting a squad because there aren't 5.0 players up to their high standard.
Then again, my faction went in recently and from the complaints, you would think it's the hardest instance alive. Apparently everyone died many, many times and took several hours.
I'm not really sure if the problem is 5.0 at all, or just a problem with people in general O_o0 -
Oh my!
Another new and refreshing APS thread!
And, i was starting to lose faith in PW players.
Thank you SO MUCH!
b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Devs have an idea what to do. Wait one year and it'll be here. b:bye100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
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Haden - Dreamweaver wrote: »Make multiple Nirvana run modes:
Solo mode Nirvana: which has a chance to the "normal amount of chests" the bosses are simpler to fight, allowing non-aps classes to either catch up in damage output, or if they so desire, to build aps.
Squad mode Nirvana: Having a chance to drop "2-3" chests ber boss. Keep the same boss random aggro, but make it drop easier.
A solo mode with easier drops would just cause the 5 aps people to spam those instead, since no need to share the drops.Make Claws and fists class specific, which would be bad for their income, because their larger cash shop players would then not want to spend money in game.
Would cause people to stick to sins and fist BMs, which most do even now.Make 4-5 aps harder to obtain? By lowering the - interval aquired per piece of equipment? Again that would cause cash shoppers to leave the game, because they already spent large quantities of dollars in game.
This is impossible due to the way the game rounds interval. It rounds intervals to the nearest 0.05, so any increment smaller than 0.05 would get rounded to 0.00 unless you have more than one of them. For example, with all of the possible -interval gear, you'd now have -0.55 interval on an Archer. If you reduced each -0.05 to -0.04, you'd get -0.44 and your Archer would now have 4 aps. What this would get you is:
Archers would max at 5 aps sparked
BMs would max at 4 aps sparked
Sins would max at 4 aps sparked
So basically, reducing the amount of -interval per bonus would **** over BMs, since they couldn't permaspark anymore. It wouldn't change much about sins as they got lots of chi skills, but it wouldn't change anything about archers. And if you made it impossible for archers to get 5 aps, you'd pretty much limit the others to 3.33 or less.
Either way, any "fix" that makes 5 aps any weaker than it is will cause a massive uproar. Any fix that makes casters stronger will most likely imbalance PvP.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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...or you can just work for your -int gear?
Yes, you can get it from not cashshopping, I know ppl who have, including me.
Surprised this thread was started by a BM too. :P
Anyways, yea, 5.0 is godly for farming, once you have 5.0, money gets very easy to obtain, etc etc.
Everyone wants -int in squad because well....who doesn't want fast runs? Aside that, Nirv is totally farmable without aps, sure its slower, but farmable none-the-less.
rofl @ having more than 3 aps a bannble offense.
As stated before, any change to -int will cause chaos, any change to casters makes PvP unbalance.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »All this talk is relatively stupid, IMO.
How many of you venos have lvl 11 amp, sage soul degen, demon armor break, myriads, etc...?
How many archers here have Bloodvow?
Or barbs not afraid to devour?
Mage? You just need a highly refined weapon...
Sorry, some of the BS constantly regurgitated by non-aps classes is really lame. Some of the fastest squads I've been in weren't all APS classes, but balanced squads that actually know what they're doing.
Learn to play. Learn to make friends. Learn "invite to squad". Learn to ask "Looking for ep/dd/veno/barb for Nirvana runs".
Most of the time... most of the people complaining about not being able to get squads are expecting others to do all the work for them. This predates BH or Nirvana, but surely includes them.
b:bye
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Ever thought of bothering to get the TT99 gear combo so that you would have 3.33 aps @_@?
Or are you still using TT90 because your having problems finding the gold mats....(I HATE their prices T_T)?0 -
LifeHunting - Lost City wrote: »Ever thought of bothering to get the TT99 gear combo so that you would have 3.33 aps @_@?
Or are you still using TT90 because your having problems finding the gold mats....(I HATE their prices T_T)?
I'm poor. I'm not QQing about others doing instances faster. I have what I have and that's it; if every decent low-90 sin will kill me in PK when I hit 100 or farm instance 5x faster with more base aps with daggers than what I have sparked with fists then so be it.
And if I get 5 aps at 100 and farm instances 5x faster than non-aps people then I sure as hell won't rub it in their face. Accept what you got and stop QQing.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
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Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »I'm poor. I'm not QQing about others doing instances faster. I have what I have and that's it; if every decent low-90 sin will kill me in PK when I hit 100 or farm instance 5x faster with more base aps with daggers than what I have sparked with fists then so be it.
And if I get 5 aps at 100 and farm instances 5x faster than non-aps people then I sure as hell won't rub it in their face. Accept what you got and stop QQing.
Any reason you quoted my post o.O?0 -
Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »...or you can just work for your -int gear?
Yes, you can get it from not cashshopping, I know ppl who have, including me.
inb4lolicannotmerchantbecauseihavetoclosemypcatnightEveryone wants -int in squad because well....who doesn't want fast runs? Aside that, Nirv is totally farmable without aps, sure its slower, but farmable none-the-less.
And then you hear a lot of horror stories where squads wc for 4-5 aps DDs while having a vit barb, a cleric and a wizard.
It's true that the squads that are filled with 5 aps DDs are the fastest ones and that they make the most profit. However, most of those 5 aps DDs not only have 5 aps, but also damn good gear otherwise, not to mention a good group dynamic and knowledge of the instances they do.
And the reason why those high APS squads don't accept non-aps DDs is simple: people are extremely result-oriented. Anything that could hinder their profit/time will be unacceptable. Of course, a lot of those 5 aps DDs also go DD on their faction's or friends' runs.
Complaining about 5 aps DDs not being in your squad or not accepting you is kinda hilarious, especially if you don't even know anyone with 5 aps, faction or friend.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
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How the hell does making claws BM specific improve the situation? It just means everyone will reroll BM/sin which is even worse for class diversity than the current 5aps situation.
Casters are already being abandoned, I can't tell you how many casters I know that have rerolled sins for farming / PK.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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oh man, another one.
Nerf aps to 2 max, that will solve all the problems because doing too much damage is bad.
Next: Attempt farming 3-3
/thread0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
Casters are already being abandoned, I can't tell you how many casters I know that have rerolled sins for farming / PK.
This is soo true. lol[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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The only problem that exists is the constant whining about it by people who are incapable of either acquiring comparable advantages or people who can't discover their own strengths. Nirvana is -int friendly, that is why other toons find other ways to generate coin to pay -int's for mats rather than running non -int squads. NIrvana runs get old quick, don't know why people care so much. Int's are playing on their strengths just like we all should. 5aps and Nirvana are fairly new so they're the target of most belly aching. When expansion comes, we'll have new targets of angst. b:sadBe kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0
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The only problem that exists is the constant whining about it by people who are incapable of either acquiring comparable advantages or people who can't discover their own strengths.
I'm actually agreeing with you. :S
A veno that knows when to amp and purge are welcome in my parties... as well as non-fist barbs that know that devour > their dd abilities... Bloodvow is always nice too.
You don't need a full-aps squad for quick runs. Just know how to play your class.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
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I'm sick of people complaining about how they can't get into nirvana squads because they're not 5.0. Go find a cleric, get a barb, and 3 other complainers and run a stupid nirvana. It's not rocket science.
Or is it that instead of taking initiative and getting things done yourself, you'd rather tag along with a bunch of OP people doing the work for you?0 -
Some complaints are justified. No matter how much I spend on a wiz, a straight up DD class, I would never DD as well as a physical class. Bosses should have less mdef so a wiz can DD well in PvE too.
However, some complaints are just stupid. My squads take casters all the time. 5.0s with top-end gear don't exclude other classes. They have the DD to make the run fast already, they don't care that their whole squad have to be all 5.0. No 5.0 is inviting you to Nirv runs not because of your class, but because no 5.0 knows or likes you. Take the time to make some friends.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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Make the other classes more useful/needed for running an instance. Let them cast, or by other means, deal with the nasty surprises some of the upgraded bosses have. IE, short antiseal for the party, things like that.
That way, everyone in the squad can benefit from having high DD's, and good support classes. And it hopefully solves the core problem.
IMHO it is never good to take from someone in order to balance, it is better to give more to the rest. That causes least "pain" for everyone involved , including PWE.This is my signature. It is my sin in stealth mode.0 -
Funny, I state the reasons as to why not to add the other reasons, get attacked for those, and make a new suggestion at the end and no one makes a comment about it. The last suggestion is to get people to start using their natural weapons in game restoring balance to the game through this, so that 3 hours of spam saying "want 5aps DD" dont appear any longer. this wasnt a QQ post, being as I tried Nirvana and was bored out of my skull.
Considering the new classes are to be coming soon, the possibility of an "Akwardness" debuff for using a non class specific weapon, ( a weapon that you dont have a mastery to) would cause lower attack level and or increase in interval. However a weapon group that you do posess mastery for, would (at demon or sage) would increase interval slightly.
The sage demon mastery thing is new to it admittingly.
but here's the reccomendation again.
To give a damage increase to classes using their class specific weapons. Increasing Mastery damages per class. Decreasing damage dealt from classes that dont have masteries for certain weapon types, by 50%; such as an archer using claws that have a base damage of 498-673, instead they would have a base attack for that specific weapon of 249 - 336. However if the archer used a bow, which the base damage would be 1195-2219, plus their mastery and dex, would get an additional boon of 50% for using a class specific weapon.
An easier way to say this would be a bm using a set of claws would get +20 attack level, while a barb, sin, archer, would ger -20.
Even the possibilty of giving - interval when wielding class specific weapons, such as bow crossbow, slingshot, axe. by .1 or greater.
of course you could also increase -channeling on casters too, using the same method.
doing this wouldn't completely discourage people from using aps weapons, but it would breathe some life back into non aps classes, such as wizards, Psys, clerics venos and archers. Remember its just a suggestion.Good intentions are like peeing yourself in dark leather pants, you get warm feelings inside, but it doesn't show.0 -
LifeHunting - Lost City wrote: »Any reason you quoted my post o.O?
Because I didn't find a better one. It wasn't directed to you though.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
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You seem to think the problem is "classes are using weapons their class doesn't normally use". The actual problem is that "5aps has much higher dps than any other build" and your suggestion does nothing to promote the viability of alternatives to 5aps.
Restricting 5aps to 2 classes will just cause more classes to die out. The same number of people will be 5 aps only they would all be playing the same class.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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I see alot of threads about APSb:puzzledWhats APS??[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »Restricting 5aps to 2 classes will just cause more classes to die out. The same number of people will be 5 aps only they would all be playing the same class.
Yup, if claws get restricted on my Barb.........oh look! I haz a BM alt.Tigriss_o - Raging Tide wrote: »I see alot of threads about APSb:puzzledWhats APS??
Attacks per second.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Haden - Dreamweaver wrote: »
but here's the reccomendation again.
To give a damage increase to classes using their class specific weapons. Increasing Mastery damages per class. Decreasing damage dealt from classes that dont have masteries for certain weapon types, by 50%; such as an archer using claws that have a base damage of 498-673, instead they would have a base attack for that specific weapon of 249 - 336. However if the archer used a bow, which the base damage would be 1195-2219, plus their mastery and dex, would get an additional boon of 50% for using a class specific weapon.
An easier way to say this would be a bm using a set of claws would get +20 attack level, while a barb, sin, archer, would ger -20.
Even the possibilty of giving - interval when wielding class specific weapons, such as bow crossbow, slingshot, axe. by .1 or greater.
of course you could also increase -channeling on casters too, using the same method.
doing this wouldn't completely discourage people from using aps weapons, but it would breathe some life back into non aps classes, such as wizards, Psys, clerics venos and archers. Remember its just a suggestion.
Only problem is it wouldn't as your title states " solve apps " all it would do is push Archers and Barbs out of squads even more so than they are now.
Plus
It's all very well throwing out idea's to balance PvE but they also need not to unbalance PvP at the same time.
Giving out + Att levels or +50% dmg increases would just move the " Inbalance goal posts " rather than solving anything.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »Attacks per second.
Oh ok. That don't affect me since I'm arcane veno right?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
easy soloution to 5aps.....MAKE EVERY1'S BASE APS 5.0...lol that would be awesome...but then archers would be the next big thing cause 1 shot of bow dmg>1 punch of a fist.....zomg that would be so epic to seeIf I sound like I hate you, please don't take it personally...chances are I actually do.0
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I do not care about 5.0 cash shoppers having power, it is part of being a heavy cash shopper. It has always been about cash shoppers in every free MMORPG with cash shop items. Nothing will change when cash shopping is involved.
1. About fist/claw to bms only should have been only bm restricted in the first place, will make people play better at their class. Not a good idea to change it now though. Archers stopped whining about the daggers for them too I think. Best to leave it as it is.
2. 5 APS is far too much, these noobs are in denial. Why not play p.server? Harder to obtain is a good idea after all. The perma spark is the huge problem. This can happen since lvl38, thats right, spark burst 1 with 2 APS, then foward all the way to 105, sage or demon. Sage has the better benefit for every physical class besides barb and veno, but demon is easier to obtain. Thus why people prefer going demon now even more just for the stupid spark.
3. More damage on other weapons??? No... Just no. Have you realized the insane numbers they do now? I do so much damage as pure VIT on chars. That will make things worse. I can imagine a wizard hitting 1 mil on a world boss with BIDS if this happens b:cold . People just have to learn how to work with classes / skills. Hailstorm seems underrated, but this skill is superb with 1/3 chance of AOE immobilize, they do not know when to use it. Yes, there are some useless skills (looks at Stream Strike, Emberstorm, psy reflect, winged pledge, Armageddon, etc)
If you expect things to change from a non cash shopped way, not going to happen.I, II and III spark is the most cheesiest skill in PWI and it should be removed or massively nerfed.
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Geez y'all dont get bored of responding/creating same 5aps threads? lol[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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