Maxim is here

Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What do we have to lose if we lose land? 150 ~ 450 mirages?

Based purely on that ^

What have you to lose if you try to defend all 3 and lose 1, 2 or even all 3 ? If anything more of your members would benefit if your decisions are made on a Fun > land basis.

At it's very basic level it would probably mean you got both a " fun " defence and attack the following week. Ofc people's definitions of fun vary so other's views might differ.

Note:
Before the " You just want free/cheap land " comments
I'm not saying this is what you should do or it's even what I want you to do . It's just a question based on the Fun > land conversation.

Dunno about Rad, but if we ever get such a 3-way gank I would expect Enrage to no-show Drakon and go after Rad and Dominus.

We always expect Enrage to send a full 80 ... We made the mistake of thinking they wouldn't one week and severely paid for it.
Imo any TW faction should expect the top opposition to send a full 80 and base their plans on that. The sign-ups, roster, gear and skills of any other Factions in a gank is outside your own control so shouldn't really factor it how you plan to do something.

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Based purely on that ^

What have you to lose if you try to defend all 3 and lose 1, 2 or even all 3 ? If anything more of your members would benefit if your decisions are made on a Fun > land basis.

Back to what I said about 'good' TW. Id certainly not want to attempt defending 3 with a 40/40/40 split and get lolraped by the #2 guild in 5mins, where we could do an 80 / 40 split and have a 1h30min tw against #2. We have tried 3 way defenses in the past and lost 1~2 lands, nobody threw up a fuss and it was funtimes. b:cute

Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well Aes, my problem is I get easily excited and have some 'prematurity' problems, so any 1 handed activity from me ends quite quickly and I have to AFK to clean up. So I guess that furthers the insult to dominus as I (and maybe more?) people will be 'semi afk' while spawnkilling them b:shocked

Sometimes i just wish i could Un-read things.

Crystabella - Heavens Tear wrote: »

They have turned up an hour before TW to prepare, organised apoth/charms etc. Can you really blame them for wanting to extend a 5 minute TW ?

Bad sportsmanship could also be described as taking your bat and ball and going home when the TW hasn't ended because the faction YOU attacked is kicking your butt. b:surrender

Sorry to have derailed your faction thread, Crystabella.

I look forward to seeing you implement your strategies, and take over the map.

RedMenace

\b:victory

While the thread is derailed

Do people think the new 40 Vs 40 HQ wars will impact on TW.

Ie: With being able to bid on any faction with a base and not just like atm Enrage will alot of the smaller/non-serious TW factions just do that instead of TW.

Ofc all depends on times,schedules and the bases not costing an arm and a leg or your first born b:chuckle

Can you gank in a base war?

Well since as far as we know each faction will only have 1 base, ganking as we use the term in TW wouldn't be possible.

But

I suppose with the ally system you could have say for example TE + Dominus each send their best 20 to a 40 person force, it could be termed as a form of ganking.
Ohh for politic intrigue, backstabbing and allies b:victory

sleepcat wrote: »

Can you attack your allies in BW?

No clue TBH. The info atm is pretty basic about allies and BW. Being able to set ally protection on/off for PK, or bring them in to help vs a stronger opponent in BW etc.
But hopefully with the patch being tested atm and going " live " in a few days for PW-CN more info will not be far behind.

Interesting..
Depending on how this works out, this may bring a fun new experience to PWI, while at the same time keeping TW the way it is.

Or BW's can cost 50 gold each try..which I wouldn't doubt.

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

victory conditions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALi78xSaP0Y b:bye

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Whatever rationalizations are made for "spawnkilling", it is still poor sportsmanship.

But obviously we disagree.

If being "serious" means that kind of intentional abuse, then I'm just fine here thanks.

My "grudges" only involve wanting a fair fight. I have more of an issue with PWI for **** up bidding that I do with other factions and their activities.

You still seem awfull defensive.

RedMenace

As I said, I don't think "serious TW faction" has to do with what goes on exactly inside the instance. It's more of how and towards what you push your faction.

I understand your grudge about never getting in on a gank, but I fail to see how ganking is your idea of a "fair" fight. I realize you want a gank to cut our forces down to get a better TW, which is perfectly reasonable, but slapping the word "fair" on top of it to imply that a 1v1 Dominus versus Enrage is somehow not "fair" is questionable at best.

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Based purely on that ^

What have you to lose if you try to defend all 3 and lose 1, 2 or even all 3 ? If anything more of your members would benefit if your decisions are made on a Fun > land basis.

At it's very basic level it would probably mean you got both a " fun " defence and attack the following week. Ofc people's definitions of fun vary so other's views might differ.

Note:
Before the " You just want free/cheap land " comments
I'm not saying this is what you should do or it's even what I want you to do . It's just a question based on the Fun > land conversation.



We always expect Enrage to send a full 80 ... We made the mistake of thinking they wouldn't one week and severely paid for it.
Imo any TW faction should expect the top opposition to send a full 80 and base their plans on that. The sign-ups, roster, gear and skills of any other Factions in a gank is outside your own control so shouldn't really factor it how you plan to do something.

What we lose if we try and fail to defend three factions at once is not exactly just land. Enrage is home to some of the biggest egos, and it is simply will not make the guild happy to do the stupid thing and lose 2 or 3 lands when it makes more sense to leave one. I doubt that many people are still in Enrage for the land and the money, but it's LOSING a TW that is unproductive to the happiness of the guild. I've never relied on TW pay as an income and always wanted to TW for the fun, but even I wouldn't suggest trying to the 2-4th factions on the server at once. I think Steopie sums it up best here:

Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Back to what I said about 'good' TW. Id certainly not want to attempt defending 3 with a 40/40/40 split and get lolraped by the #2 guild in 5mins, where we could do an 80 / 40 split and have a 1h30min tw against #2. We have tried 3 way defenses in the past and lost 1~2 lands, nobody threw up a fuss and it was funtimes. b:cute

If we get rolled in 5 minutes being outnumbered 2:1 in Rad, then it might as well have been a 2-faction war with Dominus and Drakon with 5 minutes delay on half our forces, and for the "fun" factor we prefer to have a TW with Rad.

Crystabella - Heavens Tear wrote: »

They have turned up an hour before TW to prepare, organised apoth/charms etc. Can you really blame them for wanting to extend a 5 minute TW ?

Bad sportsmanship could also be described as taking your bat and ball and going home when the TW hasn't ended because the faction YOU attacked is kicking your butt. b:surrender

b:chuckleb:dirty

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As I said, I don't think "serious TW faction" has to do with what goes on exactly inside the instance. It's more of how and towards what you push your faction.

I understand your grudge about never getting in on a gank, but I fail to see how ganking is your idea of a "fair" fight. I realize you want a gank to cut our forces down to get a better TW, which is perfectly reasonable, but slapping the word "fair" on top of it to imply that a 1v1 Dominus versus Enrage is somehow not "fair" is questionable at best.

I guess I wasn't clear.

A "gank" would be nice, because it would help equalize the numbers. No, no one is entitled to that - just wishful thinking.

I was referring to "killfarming" when I mentioned a "fair fight". I consider killing the crystal as soon as you are able to be "fighting fair". I have participated in TW's with smaller guilds where we made several pushes toward their base, then fell back and started over in order to give them a chance to learn TW. Then, when it's time, attack and destroy the crystal.

If you're not interested in that, then just kill the crystal and go.

Then again, some groups have different definitions of Good Sportsmanship. Above is mine.

I TW for the chance at a good fight. I find it disappointing that good fights are so rare anymore. I just dont personally consider killfarming a good substitute.

RedMenace

\curious as well about details of BaseWars

freebies***

Rule - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@ RedMenace's comments, he's not upset at going in and losing in 15-20 minutes in a 1vs1, its expected. He's upset at Enrages behavior at the end where they are just spawn camping and killing people w\o buffs cooldown whatnot.
Because we bid we're required to show to the TW's even if its a known loss or face random banning. (Ask MsE)
Enrage's actions would indicate they want to stop other factions from attacking them or face charm **** and redicule in WC. A strong method if they want to reduce TW attacks and hold the map without significant TW's.

Any half-brained person knows Dominus is butthurt about the kill-farming, not losing.

Because you bid you are required to show up but there are no restrictions on Enrage's response. Crystabella summed it up best. You opened the door for us, we prepared for it, and we can make the most of it however we see fit. Whether or not you like it is not our problem. As I said though, I personally think kill farming is a waste of my time, but I still think it's useless to pout about it after you opened the door for it yourselves.

Enrage's actions "indicate" that we are padding our kill count. Unless you were in a discussion with Mystic about his motivations to give us such orders you are in no position to say what political reasons we might have for it. The direct result of our kill farming was that we were padding our stats, and just because you felt demoralized because of it does not mean Enrage doesn't want significant TWs. That's more like making excuses and pointing fingers.

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Any half-brained person knows Dominus is butthurt about the kill-farming, not losing.

Because you bid you are required to show up but there are no restrictions on Enrage's response. Crystabella summed it up best. You opened the door for us, we prepared for it, and we can make the most of it however we see fit. Whether or not you like it is not our problem. As I said though, I personally think kill farming is a waste of my time, but I still think it's useless to pout about it after you opened the door for it yourselves.

Enrage's actions "indicate" that we are padding our kill count. Unless you were in a discussion with Mystic about his motivations to give us such orders you are in no position to say what political reasons we might have for it. The direct result of our kill farming was that we were padding our stats, and just because you felt demoralized because of it does not mean Enrage doesn't want significant TWs. That's more like making excuses and pointing fingers.

Did I pull your chain? Guess I did at that. Well kid it goes like this, an "indication" is :

**************************
1.Act of pointing out or indicating.
2.That which serves to indicate or point out; mark; token; sign; symptom; evidence.
The frequent stops they make in the most convenient places are plain indications of their weariness. Joseph Addison.
3.Discovery made; information.
4.(obsolete) Explanation; display. Francis Bacon.
5.(medicine) Any symptom or occurrence in a disease, which serves to direct to suitable remedies.
6.(finance) An declared approximation of the price at which a traded security is likely to commence trading.
**************************

I get to draw a conclusion based on the evidence presented, I'm not required to read anyone's mind, motivations don't matter. Since you clearly use the word "indication" later in your post one can only assume your reading comprehension is lacking and\or your just doing your trollish best to say something nasty regardless of content.

Springing to the defense of your faction members actions is admirable though in this case as in most of your posts it is stupid and pointless. No one was attacking them, unless you consider stating what was done during the TW an attack? Or was pointing out the ridiculous world chats after? Did I point out the hypocrisy of wanting "better" tw's while at the same time following a course of behavior that discourages them? The answer is "No I did not" in case you've lost the thread of this post already. What I did say is that it is "A strong method if they want to reduce TW attacks and hold the map without significant TW's." Whether you like it, agree with it, find it distasteful or any other personal opinion really doesn't matter, you defend it.

Any half-brained person can see that kill farming is a tactic that can demoralize an opponent. Any half-brained troll can try to say "we were padding our stats" and imply that no one thought there would be other effects. You can't possibly be that stupid...

hmmm, did not like the fact the game was not over ?
instead of mercying them out, we went the whole nine innings ?

so yeah, cry about it more, and as pointed out, pick up your bat & ball and leave. no where in any of the rules does it state that we must pull cats in at first opening. I believe the only statement is that we can not lose on purpose.

now Aes even went as far as saying it is not in her taste to do such, nor mine for that matter. but, we where asked to do something and followed instruction like we where asked at the time. so instead of commenting on that, you bash her for a decision that was not even her's to make. I see, GG Rule, look forward to this weekend then. prehaps I have another person to look for besides Raw to entertain myself as you get killed over and over.

if you want a good comparison to your baseball game and bashing people over the heads with a bat, why not look at it from a real stand point.
you came to a game to compete, with 1/4 a full roster of players that where on par. you do this every week time in and out, but expect something to "magically" change the outcome ?
so yeah, instead of hit home run time after time, we load the bases up and draw it out for a full blow out ?

if you want to QQ yourself over and over about getting spawn killed then call it out as such. if you want something to change so that you do not get spawn killed, hmm, figure out something you can do in TW to prevent that. other then that, I would probably feel that you might want to get use to it.