HP and phys def pure cleric

Celephie - Lost City · November 2010

I've got 2100 hp and 1600 phys def unbuffed at level 75. What should be my final hp and phys def for decent survivability? I'm a pure cleric.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · November 2010

and your budget is 1m or 1b?

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ and 2nd link in signature

get best you can for money you have

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver · November 2010

Whatever your cash it, aim for reaching 3K+ hp at lvl 80.

On some bosses (like in TT) you will need at lvl 85+ 4.5K hp buffed minimum (barb buff) in order not to get 1-shotted as an AA cleric.

vristion · November 2010

As a pure, i would sugest you worry more about HP, the points ignored in VIT will need to be made up in gear/refines in order to achieve 4k+ HP buffed which is needed in most highend content you are about to get ready for.

As a pure if you try focusing to much on p-def you will end up wasting to many slots that should have been used for HP return, and the end result because of deminishing return will be low HPs, and still considerabliy low p-def.

You can still get protection gear to try and boost your p-def, however dont pass up any thing that is HP benificial for a p-def item. in your case I would say HP>p-def. unless you have unlimted amount of money and can +12 everything, and p-def shard/gear the rest.

Most clerics you see with high p-def, and gearing/sharding in that direction are VIT clerics, and can afford the loss of an HP item and replace it with a p-def simply because they have the natural HP return already.

Celephie - Lost City · November 2010

ty guys =D

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · November 2010

I'd actually ask this in the LC forums as well, cuz monsters are not your only concern.

vristion · November 2010

Yea being on a PvP server, you would most likely want to consider another route than a pure class. IMO pure clerics are fine for any PvE content, but in PvP being a squishy cleric makes you a useless one. And all the HP shards, and refines money can buy won't save you long enough to get out of tight situations.

Manakel - Lost City · November 2010

Double post.

Manakel - Lost City · November 2010

You need more HP. A lot more. It's not as easy to find +vit or +hp arcane gear as light or heavy armor- but if you keep looking eventually some will show up.

Stillian - Raging Tide · November 2010

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=3ff80110319ca1a3
Stillian lvl 71

That was enough to survive in higher level instances and as you see cheap enough. I spent around 3-4 mil on it. i think neck not worth though, could find some 3 star cheaper and better

3 star wins on 70+ and 80+, give up green to have nice char

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2010

vristion wrote: »

As a pure, i would sugest you worry more about HP, the points ignored in VIT will need to be made up in gear/refines in order to achieve 4k+ HP buffed which is needed in most highend content you are about to get ready for.

As a pure if you try focusing to much on p-def you will end up wasting to many slots that should have been used for HP return, and the end result because of deminishing return will be low HPs, and still considerabliy low p-def.

You can still get protection gear to try and boost your p-def, however dont pass up any thing that is HP benificial for a p-def item. in your case I would say HP>p-def. unless you have unlimted amount of money and can +12 everything, and p-def shard/gear the rest.

You dont want to become like that 10k HP super squishy cleric on sanctuary. That stacked jello HP upon jello HP, and thought that the huge wall of jello would protect her. Yes. It did. Only for magic attacks. Sadly plume shell is not 24/7 and physical attacks bit off ginormous amounts of HP. (like i had 4500 HP and she had 10,000 HP. She was getting hit for a good 3k+ while I was getting hit for no more than 1k)

I follow the pdef>HP method since i started the game. I do have better gears atm but in my lower lvls of 2008 and early 2009, i was using refined +3 gears with BEAUTIFUL shards. Im sure pple have better gears than that nowadays.

I wish Rose would post on here.... -.- Shes a lv100 cleric with the experience of farming her gear and also switching from HP VIT cleric to full MAG PDEF cleric on lost city server because it increased her survivability.

Most clerics you see with high p-def, and gearing/sharding in that direction are VIT clerics, and can afford the loss of an HP item and replace it with a p-def simply because they have the natural HP return already.

Most clerics with high pdef and gear sharding in that direction are NOT VIT clerics. They tend to be an equal number. They are not the majority.

vristion · November 2010

like i had 4500 HP and she had 10,000 HP. She was getting hit for a good 3k+ while I was getting hit for no more than 1k

So it would seem you both were dead in 4 shots or less.b:surrender

It is smarter for vit clerics to shard towards p-def because from the vit points they get p-def, as well as HP...so then to maximize the effect and buffer the natural return they balance it with refines for HP, and shards for p-def.

Pure clerics sharding ANY p-def is wasting space for HP gain, that they didnt bother to get from natural gain (vit points), and unless you are able to refine to +10 in every HP return item, you wont get close to what you could have with CIT shards and +3-5 gear in HP. And with deminishing returns p-def has, youve wasted more potential than gained.

.

Bagoly_ - Sanctuary · November 2010

vristion wrote: »

So it would seem you both were dead in 4 shots or less.
...
Pure clerics sharding ANY p-def is wasting space for HP gain...

Recovering 1K HP is easier (and less time) than recovering 3K.
It's not the HP that keeps people alive but heals and pots.
Heal/timeframe > damage taken/timeframe => living toon
Heal/timeframe < damage taken/timeframe => dead toon
Good HP with a decent amount of def is better for preventing oneshots or twoshots than having a lot of def and low HP of course.

Ahira - Lost City · November 2010

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I follow the pdef>HP method since i started the game. I do have better gears atm but in my lower lvls of 2008 and early 2009, i was using refined +3 gears with BEAUTIFUL shards. Im sure pple have better gears than that nowadays.

I wish Rose would post on here.... -.- Shes a lv100 cleric with the experience of farming her gear and also switching from HP VIT cleric to full MAG PDEF cleric on lost city server because it increased her survivability.

Worth pointing out that Rose (if she still plays anymore- never see her 0_0) plays with full (lvl 11) buffs 90% of the time so the extra vit was rather wasted with limited benefit.

Survivability depends on how you play mostly. If you're going to be fully squad buffed all the time you can probably go full mag/pdef build as squad buffs will compensate for and maximise your survivability. Same build on self buff will be probably be quite compromised in some situations.

So if you instance/tw alot design your build around full buffs. PVP alot then you'll have to rely on self buffs much more so your build aught to be different to maximise survivability.

vristion · November 2010

Bagoly_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Recovering 1K HP is easier (and less time) than recovering 3K.
It's not the HP that keeps people alive but heals and pots.
Heal/timeframe > damage taken/timeframe => living toon
Heal/timeframe < damage taken/timeframe => dead toon
Good HP with a decent amount of def is better for preventing oneshots or twoshots than having a lot of def and low HP of course.

Precisely why p-def to a vit build is better. high HP and High P-def...how can ya go wrong?

Low HPs with high p-def = same death time as high HPs with low p-def. All you did was flip the script....

Heal efficiency? We are able to effectively heal 20K++ barbs, there really isn't a cleric in the world of PW that could not effectively heal themselves. (besides the whole 3k/1k example was a bit far fetched)

Why would it be important for a pure cleric on PWI to go with HP>p-def? Cost effectiveness... It is cheaper to shard than it is to refine gear. So with the average player trying to go pure, and get a ton of p-def they potentially end up with very low HPs, and average p-def, and still be one shot wonders. Best bet if you are pure, shard heavy for HP, refine as best for HP, and get full protection gears....and refine even heavier in that.

but since VIT is free, direct points heavier in there, get the HP benefits you would have from shards, shard your gear in P-def, refine your gears to what you can afford, and get protection gear, that comes to a cleric with considerably high HPs and p-def at the breaching point of horrid diminishings.

Boils down to skills on how to survive, more so than on how to heal self. and whats more effective is surviving the first few blows. I am a HUGE fan of p-def, however it can be dangerous turf to explore..and end up making you more squishier than what you was goaling for.

Faynalia - Sanctuary · November 2010

All in all this is a "how you play" issues. However, there is MUCH benefit in adding pdef over hp. I cannot tell you how many 100% hp sharded cleric with 8k+ hp I have seen fail over a 5k hp/5k+ pdef cleric. Much of this however is in how you play overall though.

I am a pdef cleric and I have found that I can take hits much better then those clerics that shard all hp. Hp is more of a fake "cushion" then it is a buffer like pdef is. The more hits you can take with the added pdef the more survivability you can have as a cleric in those heavy hitting phsy attack situations (whether it be in an instance, tw or pvp).

My general rule of thumb is to shard pdef and add SOME vit until you can refine (+4/5) for hp. Then you can start pulling out the vit to be full mag. I like to keep things relatively even with pdef and hp. I personally have no major issues in any instance and I have 5.3k hp and 5.1k pdef (unbuffed, my self-buffed pdef is 7.7k).

Also, keep in mind that adding vit is not an effective way to get pdef. It is approximately 1 pdef for every 6 vit (roughly), which is nothing significant at all and VERY ineffective. Also, getting your gears to +4/5 can be significantly cheaper then sharding with citrines, which leaves you more coins for the garnets (which are cheaper then citrines and always have been).

Overall, if you want to go hp shards all the way it is your call, but without backing up with SOME pdef, you will be a one/two shot to anything that deals phsy damage. Either that or you had better know how to survive. At 8x, in 7x/8x gears, you should be able to survive 3-1 with no issues, however in my experience I was all pdef sharded but highly doubt I would have survived with all hp shards.

Pro tip as well, pdef/mdef defense charms can and will save your cleric butt!! Overall though, I am in 100% agreement that you MUST know your cleric and how to survive. I have been in 100% full party wipes where all have died but myself and I was able to revive the entire squad 2 times (dang Steel in 3-3 can be a process sometimes). Know how to keep yourself alive. b:chuckle

Good Luck!

Ahira - Lost City · December 2010

There some really good points listed in the above posts, but just getting back to the original poster i'll share what I personally think are good final stats for a cleric.

With full buffs I would typically be aiming to end with something like.... ~10k HP with maybe 12k pdef (similar to mdef) whilst keeping m.attack at 10-11k+. Ideally i'd trade the hp for m.attack but feel the extra HP is more useful for survivability in pvp. Extra m.attack would be nice but I dont think its really required in instance work tbh and in pvp magic attack charms (which are relatively cheap to make) can make up alot of the difference when you really need them.

These are (silly) lost city targets tho- realistically they will be lower but you get the general idea on the spread of values. ^_^

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · December 2010

exellent examples of neglecting that there are two more defense factors than just hp and p.def/m.def

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2010

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

Survivability depends on how you play mostly. If you're going to be fully squad buffed all the time you can probably go full mag/pdef build as squad buffs will compensate for and maximise your survivability. Same build on self buff will be probably be quite compromised in some situations.

So if you instance/tw alot design your build around full buffs. PVP alot then you'll have to rely on self buffs much more so your build aught to be different to maximise survivability.

TW =/= full buffs
Your out in the fields you can get purged easily especially if your a cata cleric. My build revolves around staying alive with self buffs while getting ganked and purged. Id say thats similar to PK.

vristion wrote: »

So it would seem you both were dead in 4 shots or less.b:surrender

That pretty much shows the actual knowledge you have about clerics to even consider they would get killed in 4 shots,
- The cleric has charms on if their wandering in such a dungeon gettin hit that much at lv100+,
- they dont just stand there getting hit continously... b:surrender

vristion · December 2010

That pretty much shows the actual knowledge you have about clerics to even consider they would get killed in 4 shots,
- The cleric has charms on if their wandering in such a dungeon gettin hit that much at lv100+,
- they dont just stand there getting hit continously... b:surrender

Either you are not a bright person, or your reading comprehension was a bit off.. You gave an example of NUMBERS, not an example of what a cleric would do with those numbers.

If that be the case, the 10k cleric could survive just as easily as you could.

And most skilled clerics I know, don't buy HP charms, they prefer the spirit type.

Ahira - Lost City · December 2010

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

TW =/= full buffs
Your out in the fields you can get purged easily especially if your a cata cleric. My build revolves around staying alive with self buffs while getting ganked and purged. Id say thats similar to PK.

Yes thats definitely the case- no idea why i wrote tw. In fact my tw build (back when i used to tw) was very unbalanced and biased (with pdef higher than mdef even on self buff). =X

lylfo5 · December 2010

Lvl 70? It doesnt matter what you shard or how well you refine. I got thru my 70s until 90s with just sharding fawless citrines on everything. PvE isnt that hard and if you use your cleric right, you shouldnt have too much problem.

Unless you enjoy pk-ing alot, any combination of sharding would work, you would have difficult times in some situations with def sharding, and you would have some difficult times with hp sharding.

I would suggest a balanced sharding of the 2. Refer to Paramedics calculator and the pw calculator to see how it can work out for you with your budget.

My advice would be just to hyper to lvl 90 or 100 and start worrying about your gears from there.

deadpowa · December 2010

PvP-oriented cleric need more ~def and matk, cus low HP level got paid up with strong heal.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · December 2010

vristion wrote: »

And most skilled clerics I know, don't buy HP charms, they prefer the spirit type.

maybe their just cheap b:surrender sucks to see that kinda 'skilled' cleric in a busy tw

HP and phys def pure cleric

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