sage beastial onslaught

Adroit - Lost City
Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
edited November 2010 in General Discussion
Friend of mine just learned this about an hour ago, and went to test the new damage. After about 10 mins of trying it, we realized he hadn't zerked a single time. We spent the next 40 mins or so playing with it.. not a single zerk. Invited another sage barb with sage onslaught same deal. Over an hour healing a wiz while a barb onslaughted on cooldown.. and onslaught didn't zerk once. They were zerking normally with normal chops and other sage skills, its apparently just sage onslaught. Anybody else noticed this?
Post edited by Adroit - Lost City on
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Comments

  • Dysprosium - Lost City
    Dysprosium - Lost City Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Several hundred attempts... No zerks.
    The increased channeling is already a bit much, did they really have to make it so that it can't zerk as well?
  • Dysprosium - Lost City
    Dysprosium - Lost City Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'm the barb that just leared it btw..
    i have no idea why my avatar thing says i'm a wizard -.-
  • KeIost - Lost City
    KeIost - Lost City Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yeah I was the wizard that was being the test dummy over and over . . . my poor armor. Over an HOUR and still no zerk, yet everything else would zerk like crazy. Either sage bestial onslaught is glitched, or Dysprosium is very very unlucky.
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    just tell him to stop posting in weird sections
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Cortimis - Dreamweaver
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I think Armageddon is the same way, I have never had a sac-assault activation with it, and I have tested it on many a chicken.
    Cortimis - 101 Demon Barbarian. 100% legit, no goonzs/no APS

    Cortimi - 9X Demon Seeker. Total garbage and I will kill you with it anyways.
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    i find it extremely offensive that this wasnt posted in the psy sub-forumb:cry
  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited November 2010
    Psychic forums are deader than wiz forums.
  • Deora - Lost City
    Deora - Lost City Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    volst wrote: »
    Psychic forums are deader than wiz forums.

    That's because a level 1 gush wiped them all away
  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    volst wrote: »
    Psychic forums are deader than wiz forums.

    cause wizzies qq about psys? b:avoid

    ah, i checked the veno forum, it's not posted there b:laugh
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I think Armageddon is the same way, I have never had a sac-assault activation with it, and I have tested it on many a chicken.
    Armageddon can zerk.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Lets see if a bit of math can help us.

    Beastial onslaught has an 8 second cooldown. Lets say you used it 5 times a minute (once every 12 seconds) for ease of calculation. In an hour, that would mean you used it 5*60 times (300 times).

    I'm not entirely sure how often you get a zerk; I've heard 5%, 10%, and 20%. Lets assume worst case, 5% chance. I'm fairly certain its higher, but just sayin, if it were 5%:

    5% = 0.05; 0.05*300 = 15. If zerk chance is 20%, that would be 15*4 = 60 times. If, as you say, you did not see any zerks, there are a couple possibilites.

    (a) you are extremely unlucky. I don't know much about statistics, but expecting to see 15, and seeing none, is well over a P value of 0.05, thus, statistically significant. Given the number of trials you apparently performed, I find this idea lacking.

    (b) there is a problem specific to your character. I've seen bugs occur character-specific before. If you suspect this may be the problem, then submit a ticket (btw, spamming the same topic in multiple forums, not cool). However, since your called in another sage barb and got him to use the skill as well, this answer is also lacking.

    (c) a problem with the skill itself. This could be dividied into two things:
    1) weapon procs do not occur using the skill 'beastial onslaught'. That is to say, weapon adds like 'stun 3 seconds' or 'zerk' or 'pierce' (any affect) won't occur. So far you have only tested zerk. Get a weapon with a different status effect and test various skills with it, and keep a log of # of times the status effect occurs (eg: normal hits, skill 1, skill 2, skill 3, beastial onslaught).
    2) weapon proc 'sacrificial strike' does not occur properly with beastial onslaught (only sacrifical strike).
    In this case, your best bet is still submitting a ticket.

    (d) skills that do not miss have hidden downsides (a glitch, or intentional)
    1) skills that have 100% accuracy do not have weapon procs occur. Same as c1 (above).
    2) skills that have 100% accuracy will not have a sacrificial assault strike. This can also be tested: find a demon barb with the skill "Stomp of the Beast King". Actually come to think of it, Mighty Swing and Flesh Ream have 100% accuracy as well. Test to see if these skills zerk or not.

    Further information could be deciphered by finding other sage barbs and getting their input. If we get more information supporting theories (c) or (d), these is something that would be nice to hear from the GMs about. Again, submitting a ticket is probably the best approach.

    And again, spamming different forum sections? Not cool. Really.

    Cheers,

    Azzazin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Setting of the twilight moon; a late evening rendezvous from atop the
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  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    (d) skills that do not miss have hidden downsides (a glitch, or intentional)
    1) skills that have 100% accuracy do not have weapon procs occur. Same as c1 (above).
    2) skills that have 100% accuracy will not have a sacrificial assault strike. This can also be tested: find a demon barb with the skill "Stomp of the Beast King". Actually come to think of it, Mighty Swing and Flesh Ream have 100% accuracy as well. Test to see if these skills zerk or not.

    Further information could be deciphered by finding other sage barbs and getting their input. If we get more information supporting theories (c) or (d), these is something that would be nice to hear from the GMs about. Again, submitting a ticket is probably the best approach.

    And again, spamming different forum sections? Not cool. Really.

    Cheers,

    Azzazin



    From what i remember, mighty swing zerk like there's no tomorrow on me...so d2 cant be real


    for d1 i dont know, im not in-game these days but i dont think...maybe its a trouble of the sage skill itself
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    >RETIRED<
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    They continued to test this on mobs and whatnot after I posted this, and there were two barbs.. so I'd say it was far more than 300 attempts. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that it was just being unlucky.

    Two different sage barbs had this problem (that we were testing with) haven't talked to any others.. but it doesn't seem character specific.

    It's a problem with the skill, intentional or not. So one barb had every sage atk skill, and one had mostly 10's.. but between those we tested every skill at lvl 10 and 11.. and sage onslaught was the only one not able to zerk (lvl 10 was able to).

    I'm glad I'm not a sage barb, or I'd prolly be raging right now if one of my core pvp skills had a bug as bad as this.
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  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'll consult my master list of sage barbs on DW (I keep track of all I come across... lol.) I'll get them working on this ASAP.

    Azzazin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Setting of the twilight moon; a late evening rendezvous from atop the
    city's lonely heights. With the dawn the city below springs into bustling
    activity, and I don my morning apparel. From on high, I watch the world.
  • Azzazin - Dreamweaver
    Azzazin - Dreamweaver Posts: 502 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Just tested with barb friend; tried about 50 times with no zerk on beastial onslaught. Hardly conclusive, but its evidence nonetheless. Friend says he'll submit a ticket, and I may just do the same.

    Azzazin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Setting of the twilight moon; a late evening rendezvous from atop the
    city's lonely heights. With the dawn the city below springs into bustling
    activity, and I don my morning apparel. From on high, I watch the world.
  • Blade_aether - Lost City
    Blade_aether - Lost City Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    *Update*

    So I tried again with all 100% accuracy skills and different wep procs.

    I tried Gloom, Zerk, Provoke, and Nimble.

    Sacrificial Strike has a 19% occurrence, or likelihood.

    I was able to get all skills to makes these proc's occur except 11 Onslaught, My real counting only started with Sacrificial Strike though.

    Lvl 10 Flesh Ream x 200 = 43 zerks and 19 crits.

    Lvl 11 Mighty Swing x 200 = 29 zerks and 25 crits.

    Lvl 10 Penetrate Armor x 200 = 38 zerks and 22 crits. (statistically exact lol)

    Lvl 11 Stomp of the B.King x 200 = 37 zerks and 20 crits.

    Lvl 11 Slam x 200 = 41 zerks and 12 crits.

    Lvl 11 Garrotte x 200 = 39 zerks and 13 crits.

    Lvl 11 Alacrity of the Beast x 200 = 38 zerks and 22 crits.

    Lvl 11 Surf Impact x 200 = 36 zerks and 21 crits.

    Lvl 11 Beastial Onslaught x 300 = 0 zerks and 31 crits.

    Notice a pattern? All 100% accuracy skills managed to zerk.

    I was able to make all my damage skills EXCEPT for Sage B.O proc with every other proc with 2-10 tries.

    This took me several hours. Please respect the time I took. Please fix this skill.


    Blade_Aether
    Potentially wasting his time.
  • Cortimis - Dreamweaver
    Cortimis - Dreamweaver Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Armageddon can zerk.
    Really? Guess I will have to keep trying it, was prolly just unlucky. I do know that 100% skills do activate, as Mighty Swing and Flesh Ream seem to work just fine for me (sometimes too well). It's the AoEs that seem to have a lower activation chance for me.
    Cortimis - 101 Demon Barbarian. 100% legit, no goonzs/no APS

    Cortimi - 9X Demon Seeker. Total garbage and I will kill you with it anyways.
  • Sneakret - Heavens Tear
    Sneakret - Heavens Tear Posts: 618 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I wouldn't put it past being an error in the coding for just that skill, I mean I haven't looked in a reaaaaally long time but didn't Roar have an effect description of reflecting for some period of time or something along that line where it served no such purpose.
    I can see what you see not,
    Vision milky, then eyes rot.
    When you turn, they will be gone,
    Whispering their hidden song.
    Then you see what cannot be,
    Shadows move where light should be.
    Out of darkness, out of mind,
    Cast down into the Halls of the Blind.
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    hope you barb friend doesnt buy packs b:surrender
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    no gm response.. *sigh*
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  • ImReallyWhyt - Heavens Tear
    ImReallyWhyt - Heavens Tear Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Why not just get in a cata and zerk your way to the otehr base...
  • Solandri - Heavens Tear
    Solandri - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    5% = 0.05; 0.05*300 = 15. If zerk chance is 20%, that would be 15*4 = 60 times. If, as you say, you did not see any zerks, there are a couple possibilites.

    (a) you are extremely unlucky. I don't know much about statistics, but expecting to see 15, and seeing none, is well over a P value of 0.05, thus, statistically significant. Given the number of trials you apparently performed, I find this idea lacking.
    If the probability were 5%, the chance of doing 300 attacks and not seeing any occurrences is 0.00002%, or 1 in 4,818,573.

    If the probability were 20%, the chance of doing 300 attacks and not seeing a single occurrences is 0.0000000000000000000000000008%, or 1 in 118,305,218,616,677,471,097,275,159,752.

    So yeah, I think you're on pretty solid statistical footing.
  • Dsholder - Dreamweaver
    Dsholder - Dreamweaver Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I've tested the skill as well, and sadly it doesn't proc. with Sacrifical Assault axes. Everyday I come closer and closer to turning my barbarian into demon or to almost stop playing it. Maybe once my mates cultivations are finally over in Delta.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I agree that it should be fixed, but did you really choose Sage so you can zerk on Onslaught alone?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    *Update*

    So I tried again with all 100% accuracy skills and different wep procs.

    I tried Gloom, Zerk, Provoke, and Nimble.

    Sacrificial Strike has a 19% occurrence, or likelihood.

    I was able to get all skills to makes these proc's occur except 11 Onslaught, My real counting only started with Sacrificial Strike though.

    Lvl 10 Flesh Ream x 200 = 43 zerks and 19 crits.

    Lvl 11 Mighty Swing x 200 = 29 zerks and 25 crits.

    Lvl 10 Penetrate Armor x 200 = 38 zerks and 22 crits. (statistically exact lol)

    Lvl 11 Stomp of the B.King x 200 = 37 zerks and 20 crits.

    Lvl 11 Slam x 200 = 41 zerks and 12 crits.

    Lvl 11 Garrotte x 200 = 39 zerks and 13 crits.

    Lvl 11 Alacrity of the Beast x 200 = 38 zerks and 22 crits.

    Lvl 11 Surf Impact x 200 = 36 zerks and 21 crits.

    Lvl 11 Beastial Onslaught x 300 = 0 zerks and 31 crits.

    Notice a pattern? All 100% accuracy skills managed to zerk.

    I was able to make all my damage skills EXCEPT for Sage B.O proc with every other proc with 2-10 tries.

    This took me several hours. Please respect the time I took. Please fix this skill.


    Blade_Aether
    Potentially wasting his time.

    Well this blows but just look to what happened to bramble on venos: doesn't work, has been reported for years, and was never fixed.

    Unfortanly this won't get fixed either b:angry
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I agree that it should be fixed, but did you really choose Sage so you can zerk on Onslaught alone?

    Knowing that one of a barb's core pvp skills has a hidden HUGE disadvantage could influence choice in cultivation, or at least make sure you dont spend millions trying to buy the book that makes the skill SIGNIFICANTLY worse than the lvl 10 version.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The only purpose for choosing Sage these days is really to pull a cat though...I mean if Sage Onslaught could zerk...I still wouldn't pick Sage considering...Demon Onslaught...and other skills

    Like I said it should be fixed but...IJS
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The only purpose for choosing Sage these days is really to pull a cat though...I mean if Sage Onslaught could zerk...I still wouldn't pick Sage considering...Demon Onslaught...and other skills

    Like I said it should be fixed but...IJS

    Sage has its own advantages, it is not only for cata pulling. A friend of mine went sage to be different, but focuses on the strengths of sage to be effective in pvp. Sage onslaught makes sage go from inferior to demon in pvp to you'd have to be **** to ever pick sage if you plan on world pvp. I feel really bad for anybody that spends millions of coins for the sage onslaught book when learning it will just further nurf them in pvp. Its stupid that you can permanently ruin your character for pvp by learning a lvl 11 skill. I cant understand why anyone would defend a bug like this.. it doesnt even affect me but it still bothers me.
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  • DangerField - Dreamweaver
    DangerField - Dreamweaver Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    wow Quilue you dont find your logic to be a little bit flawed here? Discussing cultivation in a bug tread?

    Seriously if one of your core PVP skills didnt crit on the cultivation you took it wouldnt bother you?

    Adroit +1
  • Dsholder - Dreamweaver
    Dsholder - Dreamweaver Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I agree that it should be fixed, but did you really choose Sage so you can zerk on Onslaught alone?


    Imagine if Demon Quickshot decreased your attack speed instead of increasing it and then not allowing your weapon to proc. Also If I can zerk+crit on sage beastial onslaught I could easily do 5k PvP or even more if vs. a Cleric without plume shell
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