Sutra needs a revamp pronto

BlastingWave - Harshlands
BlastingWave - Harshlands Posts: 75 Arc User
edited November 2010 in Wizard
I was grinding on my wizzy in wraith swamps on the Acepahalid death knights and they shoot out a slow attack rate /channel speed debuff . at 1st it annoyed the hell outa me so i decided to use sutra whenever it debuffed me , since sutra is supposed to give 0 channel so slow channel should be useless but it wasnt , infact the spells still channeled slower compared to the normal channel rate . i thought maybe it was lag or a bug or some other prob so i retried but everytime i had the same result , again on the Vastclaw Executioner in Player Quest , he shoots out an aoe channel / attackrate debuff i tried to sutra while i was debuffed and ended up wasting my 2 sparks i tried it alot of times , same result.
my conclusion : SUTRA DOES NOT REMOVE CHANNEL TIME HENCE WHY IT DOESNT WORK IN CHANNEL DEBUFF , soo they need to revamp it so that it starts to remove channel in other words skills in sutra should be instant ,the channel bar shouldnt even appear at all .

on the side note i still havent tried to sutra while under Psychic soul disturb , too afraid to know the truth b:shockedb:cry
Post edited by BlastingWave - Harshlands on

Comments

  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    so maybe the skill description of the debuff is wrong and it effects also cast time? I know what you are talking about but as far as i remember i was faster with sutra than normal but the debuff still made me somewhat slower than normal sutra greetz sakura
  • Readen - Lost City
    Readen - Lost City Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'm not 100% sure about what I'll write here, but I think that's how it goes:

    x - channeling time
    Sutra decreases channeling time by 100%x to 0. If someone casts a debuff "40% slower channeling rate" it's NOT 40% of CURRENT, but BASIC channeling time, so it's 40%x. So, now it's 100%x - 100%x [Sutra] + 40%x [debuff], and channeling time is 40% of normal channeling time.
  • ShoeFury - Sanctuary
    ShoeFury - Sanctuary Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Sutra was originally intended to be -100% channeling, but for some reason the devs in China capped the channeling to -99%. Get more than -99% channeling, and it gets pushed back to -90%.

    It means that Sutra gives you -90% channeling, and not -100%. This makes it vulnerable to debuffs that increase channeling time.
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  • ElderSig - Dreamweaver
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,247 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    ShoeFury - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Sutra was originally intended to be -100% channeling, but for some reason the devs in China capped the channeling to -99%. Get more than -99% channeling, and it gets pushed back to -90%.

    It means that Sutra gives you -90% channeling, and not -100%. This makes it vulnerable to debuffs that increase channeling time.


    From what I heard, it was because when you hit 100+% -channeling, you started instant casting, so they had to cap it so that wouldn't be possible.
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  • Malord - Heavens Tear
    Malord - Heavens Tear Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    tbh think its dumb to cap at 99% =/ 5.0 BMs why not make 4skills in one sec wiz b:cryb:cryb:cry dam u DEVS
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  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    You're right, it does need a revamp. It needs 6 second cooldown so you can spam it if you have 399 chi. b:chuckle
  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    From what I heard, it was because when you hit 100+% -channeling, you started instant casting, so they had to cap it so that wouldn't be possible.
    but what's wrong with instant casting for 6 seconds? Sutra is a 2 spark skill and the duration is rather short. Phys attackers interval directly influences their attacks so why shouldnt sutra do the same? I mean wiz would be even more dangerous in pvp then but that would finally give the wiz a reason to be considered as dmg king at least in pvp
  • BlastingWave - Harshlands
    BlastingWave - Harshlands Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I think i know the answer to that , the Devs simply hate us wizards :/ . Its plain BS that you can have 5 aps but you cant have insta channel this game seriously needs to balance some skills especially wizard skills .Not to mention with Psychic soul disturb wiz will almost be useless 1v1 against them especially if the Psy has sage version for it . Imma try to post this in the suggestions forum asap , although i doubt ther going to seriously consider it at all --.--
  • Djavulen - Dreamweaver
    Djavulen - Dreamweaver Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Bc 5aps give pwi $ but giving wiz instant chanell/cast dont give any $ to pwi.

    Arcane users should have stats to their gear that lower both chanell and cast times, like HA, LA have -int.


    Or just make spells do more dmg.
  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Djavulen - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Bc 5aps give pwi $ but giving wiz instant chanell/cast dont give any $ to pwi.

    Arcane users should have stats to their gear that lower both chanell and cast times, like HA, LA have -int.


    Or just make spells do more dmg.

    so this would lead to new insignia stuff lowering both sold by packs --> here you have the money for PWI ;->

    but the real problem is that especially casts with low chan+cast would become instant skills so im rather for a nerf of the APS for physical users than for a boost on magical classes.
    There were suggestions that APS should be limited or that effect of interval gear should not reduce the interval linear to cope with that problem

    The spells dmg is fine for magical classes but there is an inbalance between psy and wiz because if you think about it things have to look like this:

    ideal situation:

    wiz: highest dmg long channeling low amount of reliable control skills
    cleric average dmg average channeling medium amoun of control skills
    psy: low dmg fast channeling many control skills less reliabe than wiz control skills

    but atm its

    psy: highest dmg fastest channeling many + reliable control skills
    cleric average dmg average channeling average amount of control skills
    wiz: dmg < psy longest channeling + low amount of unreliable control skills

    think about the cleric as a reference for average magical dmg because clerics main
    intention is to heal and buff but not to attack that's why the class should always be in between
    wiz and psy
  • BlastingWave - Harshlands
    BlastingWave - Harshlands Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    but what's wrong with instant casting for 6 seconds? Sutra is a 2 spark skill and the duration is rather short. Phys attackers interval directly influences their attacks so why shouldnt sutra do the same? I mean wiz would be even more dangerous in pvp then but that would finally give the wiz a reason to be considered as dmg king at least in pvp
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    so this would lead to new insignia stuff lowering both sold by packs --> here you have the money for PWI ;->

    but the real problem is that especially casts with low chan+cast would become instant skills so im rather for a nerf of the APS for physical users than for a boost on magical classes.
    There were suggestions that APS should be limited or that effect of interval gear should not reduce the interval linear to cope with that problem

    The spells dmg is fine for magical classes but there is an inbalance between psy and wiz because if you think about it things have to look like this:

    ideal situation:

    wiz: highest dmg long channeling low amount of reliable control skills
    cleric average dmg average channeling medium amoun of control skills
    psy: low dmg fast channeling many control skills less reliabe than wiz control skills

    but atm its

    psy: highest dmg fastest channeling many + reliable control skills
    cleric average dmg average channeling average amount of control skills
    wiz: dmg < psy longest channeling + low amount of unreliable control skills

    think about the cleric as a reference for average magical dmg because clerics main
    intention is to heal and buff but not to attack that's why the class should always be in between
    wiz and psy

    I completely agree psys heavely outdamage equally geared wizzies in all aspects and have some nice control skills as well ,and i dont see psys providing pwi with any cash , oh wait nvm * thinks about the refining costs on gear for good soulforce * :O
  • Lenestro - Sanctuary
    Lenestro - Sanctuary Posts: 490 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    lets be honest, the devs started running out of ideas. they has this siiiiick idea for a light armoured powerful melee DD with daggers, and a great race idea and design. they planned out the music, location, and everything..... but they couldn't think of a better paired class for the TB race. They went with psychic, but they had to make it better than wiz. why? whos gonna drop their endgame wiz for a crappier version... ehhh no one. the new expansion scares me, cus they could be heading down a slippery slope of "out with the old, in with the new." :/

    Anyway, thats why I dont think anyones in a huge hurry to revamp the wizzies. better sutra would be nice, but who wants to feather dust yesterdays garbage?
  • Shevanel - Sanctuary
    Shevanel - Sanctuary Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    If the garbage was attracting birds to eat it, but the birds hated dust.. I'd dust it.

    I think Magic needs to work like Dex in a way.

    Archers/Sins get all the dex they want, which increases their damage, AND gives them crit.

    Magic should work the same way. Every 20magic points should give -1% cast time. Full Magic wizzie at endgame with close to 500magic = -25% cast time. That sounds pretty good to me.

    couple that with -25% channelling from gear, and you got yourself some pretty sweet comparison to 5.0. literally halving your attacks, rather than just lowering the chan time.
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    Koiz - while listening to im on a boat hahahah
    Shevanel - hahahahaha
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  • BlastingWave - Harshlands
    BlastingWave - Harshlands Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    @Shevanel , that could work but that would benefit all the AA including Psy who already have super fast channels , if they get even more channel bonus theyll become OP as hell .So they must somehow give wizies more channel while at the same time remove all channel from psy gears and weapons to bring about balance, But the basic problem isnt just dps anymore , psy are dealing higher DPH as well so no matter how much channel you give to a wiz the psy will still outdamage them :/
  • Bagoly_ - Sanctuary
    Bagoly_ - Sanctuary Posts: 252 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    BlastingWave - Harshlands wrote: »
    @Shevanel , that could work but that would benefit all the AA including Psy who already have super fast channels , if they get even more channel bonus theyll become OP as hell .So they must somehow give wizies more channel while at the same time remove all channel from psy gears and weapons to bring about balance, But the basic problem isnt just dps anymore , psy are dealing higher DPH as well so no matter how much channel you give to a wiz the psy will still outdamage them :/

    Orage: Wizards benefit waaay more from channeling than psys.
    Most psy skills have 0,5s-1s channeling time. -chan on psys... meh.

    And Shevanel said -X% cast time, not channeling. The problem with the idea: psys have longer cast times than other classes...
  • BlastingWave - Harshlands
    BlastingWave - Harshlands Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Lets see for psy , with 25% channel bonus

    crystal light 1 sec channel x 25 /100 = o.25 secs so the channel time for crystal light will become 0.75 secs , to say that psy dont benefit much from channel bonuses is completely wrong, whats better than an even faster channel on already fast skills in fights with 5 aps BMs or archers or even barbs you need to land as many skills as soon as possible as soon as possible , Landslide gets reduced from 0.8 to 0.6 secs of channel earth vector gets reduced to 0.75 , BM roar of pride has a 0.6 channel, and all this is with 25% channel only , if the psy fancies a higher channel than this than well.... , the simple fact is that for 5 aps you do everything as a fist BM , if i was to start lvling my psy , i wont mind a 25 to 30 channel bonus or even more on my gear cause the faster i channel the better it is so saying that psy dont benefit from it is wrong , but you can say that psy dont need it as badly as a wiz does , as far as cast time is concerned sowwy my bad got it mixed up with channel in any case reduced cast will be more benefitial to psys i agree but i highly doubt it will get implemented because cast time is linked with the visual part of the skill.
  • Shevanel - Sanctuary
    Shevanel - Sanctuary Posts: 436 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Blasting wave.. I stopped reading your post the first time you said channel. My idea was to do with CAST not CHANNEL times.

    Edit:I see now you mentioned cast. But yes, cast animations are important, but channeling still has animations, doesnt it? Yes. And I've also seen vids of -cast wizzies on other versions of the game,I know it works.
    Koiz - omfg my life is now complete
    Shevanel - haha oh?
    ~~~
    Koiz - i took this massive dump
    Koiz - while listening to im on a boat hahahah
    Shevanel - hahahahaha
    Shevanel - haha
    Shevanel - Oh wow

    Certain levels of Boredom..
    ThaMessiah: I'd rather endlessly wack it till I shot a load that hits my ceiling than do a 3-2
  • BlastingWave - Harshlands
    BlastingWave - Harshlands Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    well it could work but like Bagoly pointed out if you see psy skills , they have much higher cast time as compared to wizzies so again by reducing cast time you willbe benfitting wizzies but it wont balance the classes infact itll make psy stronger , so reduction in cast time , in my opinion , should not take place instead like ive already said remove all channel from psy gears and increase all on wiz gears by suitable amounts with an appropriate self attack buff for wizzies to even out the playfield with OP fishes
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