(attempted)POLL: about venomancer class...

The reflect from normal bramble guard is 60% at lvl 10, 75% with demon. That's insanely op enough on it's own, never mind the **** 200% from hood. Trust me its not 50%, I one shot the sheeet out of myself if I duel a veno and she hoods. My 7k hp disappears before I can even stop attacking if I'm demon sparked QQ Well it's not really one shotting myself, but high aps means I hit myself about 3-4 times before I can stop attacking, so with 200% reflect that's like doing 2-8 demon sparked hits to myself lol. Even GM's have duelled venos and lost because they killed themselves on bramble hood, so yeah it pretty much means you're gonna instantly kill any powerful mellee person hitting you if you hood and they don't instantly realise it. But seriously though (despite my former troll post lol) I don't mind hood too much. I wouldn't particularly like it if they put it into world pvp, but it wouldn't overly bother me. The fact it takes 2 sparks and the fact that you can avoid it if you know what you're doing mean it's a powerful skill but you can get around it, and it's really no worse than many other OP skills or techniques other class's can use. It's not too much of a problem in tw because if you're killing a veno you're aware they're probably going to hood at some point, so you're ready to stop hitting or click an immunity pot or something, and if they do get you with hood the other 5 guys in the squad can attack freely after it wears off and she can't hood again for 30 secs and untill she has the sparks. I do think the cooldown should be longer though, maybe a minute or something. I mean you use it, you're immune to any mellee attacker for 15 secs, then you recast it 15 secs later. So you're basically in anti mellee god mode half the time lol. That makes it too op, if they lengthend cool down I'd not have a problem with it being in open pvp. Bramble guard on the other hand is the very bane of my existance QQ I mean demon bramble returns 75% of my damage back to me in tw from every single bloody person I hit. 75% of a sins damage is more dps than anyone I'm fighting other than another interval sin or a high aps fister can give. Attacking brambled people in TW literally makes me feel ill xD Just killing myself over and over again. You can use a crab meat before you start attacking, this makes you live about 2 seconds longer, charm gives you another couple secs, tree of protection a couple more. But if I'm attacking someone and they're attacking back it's impossible to survive the 10 secs of my charm timer. If I demon spark and auto attack any bm or barb I just kill myself while if I'm lucky ticking their charm. Can kill robes and other LA's but it leaves me half dead and an easy target for a one shot from just about anyone xD Bramble literally ruins tw for sins lol. All you can do is trade lives with one person at a time, usually a cleric. Or aoe on groups of people and instantly kill yourself on bramble xD If bramble worked in open pvp mellee users, especially sins, would be seriously nurfed. Every time you enter a pk fight everyone will have bramble up and you'll just be suiciding over and over again. I really wish they'd remove it from TW lol. If they put it in open pvp i'd quit my sin and role a veno lolz. Or I'd just use the pathetic little girly sin pvp tactic of maze stepping, iron guarding triple sparking, attacking and re-stealthing before immunity to damage wears off. Because I'd actually have to do that to kill anyone with decent hp and lets face it that would ruin pvp for everyone if all sins started doing it because they didn't have a chance otherwise. (on a side note that technique seriously needs nurfing somehow, it's just silly.) lol.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I notice you didn't list archer's two spark skill.

For 2 reasons.

1) I wasn't trying to make an exhaustive list of every 2 spark skill. I also didn't list psychic or assassin skills. I felt like I had made my point which was simply that most or all 2 spark skills are extremely powerful and perhaps overpowered in some situations. An overpowered 2 spark skill isn't unique to the venomancer. What's unique is that the venomancer's doesn't really work.

2) I've never played an archer past level 3, so I don't even know what their 2 spark skills are besides Barrage.

xxxdsmer wrote: »

for clarity:
Bramble Guard lv10:
Cast a bramble shield of protection on a friendly target. Returns
60% of melee damage to attackers. Lasts 10 minutes.

Bramble Hood (only one level of this):
Create an array of magical brambles to return 200% of
melee damage and reduce damage taken by 75%. Lasts 15 seconds.

and to answer the question asked, i'm 100% certain i wasnt in a duel... the lil assassin dude thought it'd be cute to try pking me while i was grinding or w/e i was doing, and the whole rest of the conflict happened outside SZ, outside duel conditions, with him going and coming from stealth lol. I cannot say for certian if both skills reflected that day, but at least one or the other did, and i'd seen reflect pop up in open world pvp conditions before then as well.

Umm... Yeah, I realized I have a typo, you don't need to list the skills.... I do have a lvl 90 veno.

What part of "it's never worked in open map PvP in PWI" do you fail to grasp?

As for your recollections, perhaps you were fighting or aggroed a mob that was near or spawned next to the sin and saw reflect from that. Perhaps it glitched, however Bramble Hood reflect and Bramble Guard have never worked in open map PvP anytime someone has thought so and actually gone out to test it.

Your insistence that it worked is no different than saying, 'if you die in rebirth you're going to get ported to 1k, so don't die'. Except that's not really a glitch even, that's just the a 'feature' of the way client/server mechanics work.

xxxdsmer wrote: »

just my $0.02, but archer's 2spark skills are kinda like apples and most other classes 2spark skills are like oranges, IJS b:chuckle

like stormrage eaglon, a pretty considerable dmg skill, but its a 30 second damage over time attack.

and there's barrage, but its a constant cast skill.

and there's wings of grace, but its a purely survival skill that dosent have an attack or reflect element to it.

(these things are also why i didnt list archer skills in my monster post comparing skills, but archers do have other tricks to 1-2 shot other classes in their skilltree, just not ones that take 2 sparks... unless maybe you try 1-2 shotting a person with barrage mby? hehe)

so... archers's direct/damage over time stormrage is like apples to oranges when compared to veno's bramble... which reflect damage.

and yet wiz's direct damage bid... can be compared to veno's reflect? so are these both oranges.

wiz's bid or any other class's direct damage skill is more related to archer's stormrage... as all these skills is dependent of the user's weapon. unlike the veno... where bramble's damage is dependent of the opponents' weapon.

Pressa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Tsk I really don't think that it has never worked I remember it working when I was a newblet well more newblet then I am now anyway :P The post is dated in febuary and several people on there say its been nerfed for awhile right on the thread which pretty much what I said. But it HAS worked before I have in fact used it in TW way back when it wasn't long after I did that it was nerfed. And Michael I am so sure I told you this before I have played since PWI started er well a few days after ob came open anyway. While I don't have the rap sheet of the people on MY as I never played it changes made on MY have no bearing on PWI at all. Soooooo I don't know why you would bring up having experience in MY as a reputable source for the subject.

Bramble reflect has always and continues to work in TW.

xxxdsmer wrote: »

you swear its never worked, i swear i've seen it work (just not in a while). i propose we agree to disagree on the topic and leave it at that for civility's sake b:cool

/facepalm

Apparently you didn't read the thread. It was a page and a half of assumptions that it had been nerfed, Lily came in and set the facts straight which nobody contested, then it turned into a Veno being OP QQ thread.

Lily has been a hardcore PW farmer/player long before PWI even opened a server. I'll take her post as fact with only a few noobs in that thread not knowing what the hell they're talking about.

xxxdsmer wrote: »

and as i've said before, i've seen it work in open world pvp on numerous occasions. it dosent matter how much you try to troll or get a flamewar started, until a developer comes in this thread, tells me i'm insane and was hallucinating, i know what i saw as fact.

and it is still my belief that these skills should work everywhere in the game, they are in the skilltree for a reason.

otherwise lets take out stuns+dragon from the bm skilltree for open world pvp too.
and heals out of the cleric's skilltree for open world pvp.
and lets make true form and beast kings inspiration not work while outside of SZ in the world map.
and i could go on and on, including a 3.33 or lower APS cap and no skills or anything can increase the APS higher than that.

if its in the skilltree of the classes, it should work (with the exception of knockback effects... that could really be misused lol... will of the phoenix and knock back 30 people at once) but veno skills.. they're not as OP as people would like everyone to think. you see a big green animation and a pulsating white ring around a veno? gtf away from the veno for 15 seconds or die... just like you'd rush **** over to a wizard you see channeling black ice dragon strike to try and stun 'em to interupt the skill, or an assassin'd try canceling it with knife throw... except in this case you just stun the veno and walk away for the 15 seconds rather than stand there like an idiot swinging away killing yourself on a skill that costs the veno 2 sparks just like any other ultimate in the game.


and FYI: my point of view on this would be the same even if my "main" weren't a veno.

So what if I had 1k health left, hit the veno in an attempt to stun, and get killed in the process b:shocked? Oh wait I know I will just run away as fast as possible....Nevermind the veno hit me with one of her spells and killed me anyway b:sad.

What makes BG so annoying, is the fact that it cannot be countered with skills, seeing as attacking is futile, while the venomancer is free to kill you with spells or with a phoenix( if they have one)in your attempt to run away(although assassins have better luck due to stealth).

Now you may be say, "What about invoke b:angry"? Well unlike BG, the caster is slowed down immensely so that you can in most circumstances get away without taking a hit,so at least the playing level is balanced.

Although this may seem irrelevant, SoulBurn is also very much the same, but the difference between "it" and BG, is the fact that it only last a few seconds, rather than 15 seconds (Now imagine how OP that would beb:surrender).Also, the target even while taking damage, may still have a chance of defeating the psychic because there is no damage reduction unlike the venomancers.


All things considered BG in almost every way can be considered very OP. Also I apologize if I am talking about the wrong bramble. I can never remember which one is which.

OMFG... If veno have a half fix and half percentage as reflect value, like cleric/wizard heals, i'll not need to be ban from pvp anymore...

Consider reflect based on physical defense's percentage plus a fixed value according to skill level and you'll get the idea how to not be overpowered any more.

Simple like that.

Yulk_owns - Lost City wrote: »

Solution: Go duel or do TW. PK is for failures.

And lol, Venomancers are still OP anyway, L2P.

Better to fix or remove swimming mastery, TBH.

venomancers are only good if you dont just get 1shoted by the other class so...
after rep sale...
b:shutup