best auto attack weapon?

Servant - Harshlands_1335101201
Servant - Harshlands_1335101201 Posts: 80 Arc User
edited November 2010 in Blademaster
WITHOUT including -interval gear what weapon would truly be the over best for just simply auto attacking? i grind allot and i only realy use sutra grindin so im just looking for whatever weapon type is the best for auto attacks in general
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Post edited by Servant - Harshlands_1335101201 on

Comments

  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Fists.
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Aoe grind with skills using axes is most efficient ijs.
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  • X_Harnrner_x - Heavens Tear
    X_Harnrner_x - Heavens Tear Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Servant - Harshlands wrote: »
    WITHOUT including -interval gear what weapon would truly be the over best for just simply auto attacking? i grind allot and i only realy use sutra grindin so im just looking for whatever weapon type is the best for auto attacks in general

    auto attack? that isn't implemented in the game is it?

    or is this one of those bot users admitting he runs a bot?
  • Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,161 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    X_Harnrner_x - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    auto attack? that isn't implemented in the game is it?

    or is this one of those bot users admitting he runs a bot?

    wut

    Auto attacking is when your character continually uses normal attacks (...automatically) instead of skills.
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  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'm sure everyone will say "fists > all other weapons on dps even without -interval. That's a fact", but do the math and you'll see that without -interval swords have better dps on autoattacking. That is compared non-refined and no -interval, and ofc same amount of str and dex in your build.

    Check the dps on the base attack of a TT70 blade and TT70 fist : blade average 614 (430~797) dps, fist average 591 (561~620) dps. (maybe I should have included the +max damage on the fists, but warrior blade has a +physical attack and ghoulish has quicken. It would only make things complex to find a roughly +70 dps on both weaps)
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Auto attacking is when your character continually uses normal attacks (...automatically) instead of skills.

    There is no true auto-attack in PWI. You can't have it set to automatically attack a mob that spawns next to you, for example... however the term in PWI refers to continuous attacks... You can auto-attack with a repeating macro.
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    There is value in having a faster weapon when fighting single targets because of better spark coverage. When you spark more often mobs die faster, when you Sutra more often you need less hp pots. I can see fists being a better single target grinding weapon than single blades for that reason.
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  • Ranfa - Dreamweaver
    Ranfa - Dreamweaver Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm sure everyone will say "fists > all other weapons on dps even without -interval. That's a fact", but do the math and you'll see that without -interval swords have better dps on autoattacking. That is compared non-refined and no -interval, and ofc same amount of str and dex in your build.

    Check the dps on the base attack of a TT70 blade and TT70 fist : blade average 614 (430~797) dps, fist average 591 (561~620) dps. (maybe I should have included the +max damage on the fists, but warrior blade has a +physical attack and ghoulish has quicken. It would only make things complex to find a roughly +70 dps on both weaps)

    I did a thorough math on DPS hierarchy a while ago (it's buried somewhere on this board) between all types of TT60 weapons and Fists still came over top. Fists will eventually outdamage blades over time simply because they hit faster.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I'm sure everyone will say "fists > all other weapons on dps even without -interval. That's a fact", but do the math and you'll see that without -interval swords have better dps on autoattacking. That is compared non-refined and no -interval, and ofc same amount of str and dex in your build.

    Check the dps on the base attack of a TT70 blade and TT70 fist : blade average 614 (430~797) dps, fist average 591 (561~620) dps. (maybe I should have included the +max damage on the fists, but warrior blade has a +physical attack and ghoulish has quicken. It would only make things complex to find a roughly +70 dps on both weaps)

    Um... you forgot the fact that fists are faster? Here's your fists and blade without any intervals.
  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I did a thorough math on DPS hierarchy a while ago (it's buried somewhere on this board) between all types of TT60 weapons and Fists still came over top. Fists will eventually outdamage blades over time simply because they hit faster.

    There are tons of post also saying the contrary though. There is a reason everyone was tend to say swords outdamage fist before -interval gear became accessible imo. I replied to how the OP seems to be using the weap to grind : that is normal hits and only sutra for hp in order to grind mp and hp pot efficient.

    tbh I don't really believe in the fancy math (no offence) cause nothing beats experience in game. It's impossible to include all possibilities and someones habits when playing. My lvl71 bm uses sword as main weapon. I have no -interval, and testing showed I did more damage with sword then with fists, same shards same refines. Also, in bh51 mainly and some 59 where most don't have -interval but use fists on bosses, I get aggro from 1st hit to last. Even when with compareable weapon (an example of +2 annihalators with a beautiful garnet against my +1 with 1 flawless garnet leg blade comes up in my mind, cause he was all "I'll tank, I'll get aggro anyway"). There is so many math made to confirm what the posters want to show, but what I see is that blade does more damage on a boss fight then fists without -interval and low refines only.
  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Um... you forgot the fact that fists are faster? Here's your fists and blade without any intervals.

    I did take into account attack speed lol, check it before making someone look like some doop b:bye I didn't take into account any refines like you did. Since refine adds a fix bonus and fists without -interval hit almost 30% faster, the bonus of refine is significantly more important making fist dps catch up fast then pass the dps of sword. That is why I the OP should look himself (like I suggested in first post), cause all depends on how high he'll refine, what shards he put in. Math is nice, you can use it to proove any point you like as long as you pose the hypothesis that suits you best first :P Like you did, enter just high enough refines to proove your point b:laugh
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There are tons of post also saying the contrary though. There is a reason everyone was tend to say swords outdamage fist before -interval gear became accessible imo.
    People used to also say fists sucked. People also used to say veno's were the OP class and broke this game shortly after the herc and nix. They also used to say that no veno could succeed being HA or HA/AA. So what? People always say a bunch of **** and often times they are wrong.

    I gotta say if your post had any merit you would not be banking on "there are tons of posts also saying the contrary though" -- there are a lot of idiots who think drops were nerfed and it always supersedes a 2x drop event. Something being true or false will not have more or less people in agreement about it -- that's actually completely irrelevant, and only used by someone trying to find a crutch to one-up another because they have no substance to back up a claim. Agreement =/= validity. Experience and perception whether it be in the form of acknowledgement or observation, is very much biased (see observational bias) which is why you need something more concrete to back-up a statement. Even more funny is, the arguments you used are easily the same arguments that are self-defeating. Math is used to prove a point because assertion alone is not logical, and neither is taking roll of who agrees with you.
  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I did take into account attack speed lol, check it before making someone look like some doop b:bye I didn't take into account any refines like you did. Since refine adds a fix bonus and fists without -interval hit almost 30% faster, the bonus of refine is significantly more important making fist dps catch up fast then pass the dps of sword. That is why I the OP should look himself (like I suggested in first post), cause all depends on how high he'll refine, what shards he put in. Math is nice, you can use it to proove any point you like as long as you pose the hypothesis that suits you best first :P Like you did, enter just high enough refines to proove your point b:laugh

    I don't think +3 is too much to ask, but w/o refine:

    Blade: ((1265 + 2027) / 2)*1.11*((7/100) + 1) = 1954.9542
    Fists: ((1274 + 1369) / 2) *1.43*((7/100) + 1) = 2022.02715

    Happy now? Note that I haven't added any rings, which would benefit fists more. One thing you also don't see is that fists get chi faster and therefore allow you to spark more frequently. But sure, don't believe the numbers and just go with your gut feeling.
  • Tawarwaith - Sanctuary
    Tawarwaith - Sanctuary Posts: 391 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    @JanusZeal: What I originally was trying to say was for the original poster to verify himself cause there isn't 1 unique weapon that always does more damage. Most seem to be so into fists and axes that they forget other weapons. I only gave an example, that I kept highly simplist on purpose cause I don't the info about the OP str, refines etc. The lvl of refines, the lvl of shards, the amount of str points all interfere. The math used always is based on hypothesis on those. Change those parameters and the result will be different over and over again. It doesn't have anything to do with ppl being idiots 2 years ago, at least I don't think they were, just the state of gear ingame was totally different at that time.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    refines benifit blades more than fists

    blades/swords do out dps fists under some rather rare circumstances
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    People used to also say fists sucked. People also used to say veno's were the OP class and broke this game shortly after the herc and nix. They also used to say that no veno could succeed being HA or HA/AA. So what? People always say a bunch of **** and often times they are wrong.

    I gotta say if your post had any merit you would not be banking on "there are tons of posts also saying the contrary though" -- there are a lot of idiots who think drops were nerfed and it always supersedes a 2x drop event. Something being true or false will not have more or less people in agreement about it -- that's actually completely irrelevant, and only used by someone trying to find a crutch to one-up another because they have no substance to back up a claim. Agreement =/= validity. Experience and perception whether it be in the form of acknowledgement or observation, is very much biased (see observational bias) which is why you need something more concrete to back-up a statement. Even more funny is, the arguments you used are easily the same arguments that are self-defeating. Math is used to prove a point because assertion alone is not logical, and neither is taking roll of who agrees with you.

    You need to stop taking things out of context. Fists were considered inferior as a PvP weapon before people had many -int gear available to them, and that was true. Also, PvE involved a lot of AOE grinding, that was how you'd level at the time. No one wants a fist BM at zhens.

    Nixes were OP because good shards and pdef orns were hard to come by at the time. Nixes used to kill a robe from just bleed, the veno doesn't even have to look at you. These were 7x-8x robes and LA complaining about this new wtf pet that ticked 1k+ with bleed when their hp were probably 3k. Even for 9x, Sky Demon's was 10m+ and higher garnet shards were gotten from combining. No g8-g11 garnets in everyone's sockets.

    Another example:
    Archers caught on that sling shots were no longer really necessary with Lunar bows being more available and firing at the same speed, and also with people not grinding as much, so the popularity of Striker and Striker:Glare decreased a lot.

    Old archer guides would advocate those slingshots as grinding weapons. Now no one gets them
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    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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  • geriatrix
    geriatrix Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    This is not the first game I play. I am noob in PWI, but not in MMO.

    People like to see higher numbers in their hits. They are happier with two hits of 100% per minute than with three hits of 75% per same minute, even 3 x 0.75=2.25

    When higher hits make you happy you forget about time. Your satisfaction gives you better feeling about the weapon and you will "defend" it even against "quantum science".

    Also, some of you talk about higher chances to defeat "that one" enemy with possibly higher hits. Even if it doesn't happen every time, we remember each "success" more than each "fail".

    Others talk about more accumulated kills over time while grinding. There is no "glory" in it, but "hard work gives its own, unique, kind of satisfaction". Especially when results are visible.

    Everyone is right, but not under same conditions. This is GAME, and point is to have fun.

    If you like to show higher hits, then do it. Enjoy.

    If you like to get more kills/drops over same number of hours, also enjoy.

    When I "grow up" (in levels) I will have more experience with both, fists and blades.

    Whichever is better for this or for that, we noobs have to try both. And everything else.

    Just for fun.

    Happy gaming to all of us !

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