1st hood, then guard, now Strong. whats next?

xxxdsmer · November 2010

a while back bramble hood used to reflect 200% melee dmg to the attacker in pvp, then they nerfed us by turning that off.

not so long ago at least we still had bramble guard that reflected melee dmg in pvp, but they nerfed us by turning that off too.

and now they've nerfed our hercs and whatever else we may have that has Strong petskill on it (the +150% pdef buff)... it now reduces pet's evasion to zero, which makes even the weakest mobs in HH noticeably more difficult... i wont even go into how much harder that makes bosses.

whats next?

and are we all just going to continue to sit back and not complain about all these past and present nerfs, and whatever future nerfs they may come up with or are we gona speak up against this b.s. ?

we paid about 200 dollars, wether directly or with coins, to get the herc with 4 rare petskills, and the hercs we bought DID NOT have an evasion debuff effect on Strong.

and while i'm ranting about what all we didnt sign up for, we dang sure didnt sign up for getting pestered by melee classes, just like wiz's dont fight clerics (unless they want a heguva hard fight) and usta be barbs and bm's didn't fight other barbs/bm's b/c it would just be a charmtick fest and noone'd win. melee classes can beat up on the other caster classes, one of venos strengths was reflecting their melee dmg back to them. it is veno's signature, and only, buff and selfbuff (excluding speed, but meh.. i dont run anyway).

i propose everyone stop buying battle pet packs of any form from the botique or players (including feathers and force from other people), until our class is restored to what it is supposed to be, to include reflects working in pvp, and the rare petskills put back the way they were. if people want to fight us they shouldnt try fighting us with a melee class, simple as that. and then they go messing with Strong which makes our good tank pet that much better... i think i've had enough, how about you?

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · November 2010

im not commenting on the pvp part, but the strong nerf? meh w/e..... hasn't stopped me from tanking some hard bosses.

xxxdsmer · November 2010

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

im not commenting on the pvp part, but the strong nerf? meh w/e..... hasn't stopped me from tanking some hard bosses.

you're obviously not doing things as hard as me and my friends do then lol. we like to push things to the very edge of what we can do, we're not contempt with doing the same thing(s) all the time.

even for the simple fact of before i could shoot some of the real tall mobs in 1-3 2-4 times before healing (with only one on herc) and now i can shoot maybe once before having to heal... that in itself is a noticeable difference.

and just going with the PvE aspect for a second, we bought our hercs as we saw them when we bought them, we didnt buy what we currently have. and changing the petskills dosent affect everyone, and the way the petskills were its not like herc could tank everything anyway. its like we bought a porsche and now have a chevy... i wonder how long it'll take 'em to make the herc a bicycle if we dont take action.

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear · November 2010

You realize the Strong skill was changed ages ago, right? The skill description was only recently (as in the past 6 months or so? no sense of time) updated. The herc is still pretty OP, all things considered. I think you're exaggerating a bit on that point.

Evanera - Heavens Tear · November 2010

Errrr.....bramble hood NEVER reflected damage in open PvP except TW PK tourny and cube as well as DT, same goes for Bramble guard.

Also, strong reducing the evasion to 0 has always been like that.

Where the hell have you been?

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · November 2010

xxxdsmer wrote: »

you're obviously not doing things as hard as me and my friends do then lol. we like to push things to the very edge of what we can do, we're not contempt with doing the same thing(s) all the time.

even for the simple fact of before i could shoot some of the real tall mobs in 1-3 2-4 times before healing (with only one on herc) and now i can shoot maybe once before having to heal... that in itself is a noticeable difference.

and just going with the PvE aspect for a second, we bought our hercs as we saw them when we bought them, we didnt buy what we currently have. and changing the petskills dosent affect everyone, and the way the petskills were its not like herc could tank everything anyway. its like we bought a porsche and now have a chevy... i wonder how long it'll take 'em to make the herc a bicycle if we dont take action.

You're comparing it to problems you have in 1-3? My goodness Im HA/AA build and i dont have to heal my herc so often on mobs in there. I really think your over exaggerating. And yes, i got my herc AFTER the skills where nerfed. This problem is long gone. People have adapted.

storehammy · November 2010

You also think evasion does anything significant?
O_o'
The OP is rather strange.
.-.

xxxdsmer · November 2010

either something has recently changed the herc, or the ENTIRE HH has changed.

idc who you are you cant tell me it hasnt.

i finished off soulbanisher in 1-3 the other day after it killed the other venos in the squad (no cleric around either), then early this week soulbanisher wasnt possible even with a cleric or two in squad (and being cleric buffed).

general feng in 2-3, me and two friends have herctanked it before and it didnt take all 3 of us ONLY pethealing, earlier this week we were all ONLY spamming petheal and it still killed a lv90 or 91 herc (i forget which was tanking first).

and yea, hood did usta reflect, just like guard did. melee's arent spos to have an easy time fighting venos.

if i seem like an idiot about bramble guard and the recent things i've noticed about herc being less capable at tanking everything (including just the big mobs in 1-3) then either i pay too much attention to what my (about) two hundred dollar pet can do, or 99% or more of people that play veno is too ignorant to realize when things change.

(and given the skill level of most venomancers, the latter wouldnt suprise me at all.)

there's two things i know for certain.
1) melee classes aren't supposed to be the weapon of choice against venos just like wiz isnt the wpn of choice against a cleric.

2) something about the herc has changed recently, even if losing ~1.2k evasion couldnt have had that much effect on herc's survivability.

yall act like these changes are nothing, but really if you keep letting these "little things" happen, they will nerf veno to the point that it isnt worth a damn and we will all be sitting around with two hundred dollar paperweights that cant even hold their own against a stack of papers b/c they cant hold down a stack of papers either.

ya wana keep bein ignorant, have fun allowing the class to continue to be nerfed to oblivion. at least back when i was high 6x / low 7x we still had bramble guard in pvp, hood probably worked before i was able to get it but i do know it did work in this version in pvp.

if nerf reflects, why not nerf heals or stuns? kill off other classes signature abilities?

hell why not lets just nerf everyone and make PWI only a semi interactive instant messenger with avatars we can dress up. thats whats gona happen if the veno population keeps allowing these changes to the class, and you can take that to the bank. even when they changed 3-1 the mobs stayed the same. the mobs have recently become harder to fight with herc in 1-x and 2-x. say what you want but something has changed and things will continue to change (for the worst) if you dont all start noticing them and doing something about it.

Maiira - Sanctuary · November 2010

lol wow QQ much?

all of the things you stated have always been like that unless... u started during the 1 week that they made tt easy again by accident...

tt2-3 and higher have been rly difficult for a long time and hercs can be 1shot on wurlord in 2-3. have been for months now. my lvl 100 herc gets 1shot.

reflection hasnt worked in pk for over a year and a half now. they only reflect in duels, tw, and tourny. i see so many venos who claim that bramble reflects... till they have a fister mow them apart cause they think he will kill himself. it hasnt reflected in open pk for over a year and a half. herc reflect however does reflect in pk... but only against the target that the herc is attacking. if herc is stunned it wont reflect in pk during the duration of the stun.

herc's havent changed. i can prove by fighting the same boss every couple of days for the last year... "blackhole" my herc has tanked it the same every time ive faught him since i opened oht.

if you are such a noob to the point that you rely on reflect to win then you should go improve yourself before coming here to the forums.

Maiira - Sanctuary · November 2010

oh and love your signature...

"i'm pro all classes, and against none in particular..
but the age old QQ about venos is just that. OLD. "

Cocobelle - Sanctuary · November 2010

At least they didn't fully nerf bramble hood. I mean the 75% damage reduction is amazing, nonetheless. b:victory

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear · November 2010

Maiira - Sanctuary wrote: »

oh and love your signature...

"i'm pro all classes, and against none in particular..
but the age old QQ about venos is just that. OLD. "

OT, whatevs, but I noticed your sig...
Have you ever made your char on pwcalc? I'd love to see it lol... those numbers are impressive :P

xxxdsmer · November 2010

Maiira - Sanctuary wrote: »

lol wow QQ much?

all of the things you stated have always been like that unless... u started during the 1 week that they made tt easy again by accident...
been playing for about a year and 9 months thank you.

tt2-3 and higher have been rly difficult for a long time and hercs can be 1shot on wurlord in 2-3. have been for months now. my lvl 100 herc gets 1shot.
who the 'ell said anything about wurlord? i may be crazy but i'm not suicidal.
but on a sidenote:i have succeeded in tanking (not soloing though) wurlord. an assn friend got lucky and canceled all of his big atk and i think there was another lower lvl veno in squad.

reflection hasnt worked in pk for over a year and a half now. they only reflect in duels, tw, and tourny. i see so many venos who claim that bramble reflects... till they have a fister mow them apart cause they think he will kill himself. it hasnt reflected in open pk for over a year and a half. herc reflect however does reflect in pk... but only against the target that the herc is attacking. if herc is stunned it wont reflect in pk during the duration of the stun.
i explicitly remember reflecting an assassin's melee attack back on him with (probably) bramble guard. you gona say assassins have been out for longer than i've played too? try again.

herc's havent changed. i can prove by fighting the same boss every couple of days for the last year... "blackhole" my herc has tanked it the same every time ive faught him since i opened oht.
then perhaps they changed EVERYTHING in HH to attack harder? i think not. (and no my weapon nor rings nor anything else is broken.)

if you are such a noob to the point that you rely on reflect to win then you should go improve yourself before coming here to the forums.
FYI: i didnt "rely" on reflect, but it certainly did make melee classes stop and think before they just attacked willy nilly like they would a cleric or wiz at the time. i dont 'need' reflect to kill anyone, its just part of what makes veno what it is.

please do give me something else to pick apart, and make sure you're reading right before you assume i'm talking about bosses that are generally accepted as totally not herc tank-able and that i'm somehow saying i "need" reflect, i dont need it, but it is part of a veno just like bm's stuns and cleric's heals.
and for the 'herc hasnt changed'... the boss that comes to mind right now is feng in 2-3 squadmode, that i know for a fact me and 2 veno friends have tanked before with herc, and without a hitch. (even before i'd made my wheel of denied fate a couple weeks back.) and this week the evasion thing pops up in the description of one of its petskills and the herc has trouble with feng, and needs more pethealing for everything including mobs, and not only in 2-x. coincidence? i think not.

Maiira - Sanctuary · November 2010

i am able to solo heal my herc through 2-3 wurlord have done it numerous times. i played pw-my for 4 months while i waited for pwi to come out. have pvp experience on bm, veno, cleric and archer. have been pking on my veno for 1yr and 4 months and never once has bramble had an effect. i leave bramble on however because some noobs still think it works and it makes them avoid me.

if bramble had worked in pk then all the 5.0 aps'ers would be scared to attack venos.

u can analyze it all you want cause everything i have posted has been true and you are merely building a new bridge to hide under

anwynd · November 2010

i didnt read anything but the first post so about the hercs buff i believe it reduces your evasion so the hercs bramble can help more with aggro

Maiira - Sanctuary · November 2010

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=201731

february 23rd is the date of this post QQing because bramble and bramblehood doesnt work in pk. u need to get up to date cause this was more than a year and 9 months ago, so bramble hasnt worked at all in pk since u started playing.

Silest - Sanctuary · November 2010

Because by leaving all that turned on makes us nearly unkillable...

Besides, if PW wants to completely stop us in pvp, they'll have to remove phoenix completely.

Malord - Heavens Tear · November 2010

b:victory b:bye

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · November 2010

This thread needs to die.

*Attempts to kill it by shooting it in the head*

Bang Bang!.

MsSerenity - Lost City · November 2010

mhmm i love your nerd rage but im with hoptoit LETS MAKE THE THREAD DIE! *sheats thread in head*

Bang Bang!b:angry

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · November 2010

I was ordered by maiira to kill this thread.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear · November 2010

MsSerenity - Lost City wrote: »

mhmm i love your nerd rage but im with hoptoit LETS MAKE THE THREAD DIE! *sheats thread in head*

Bang Bang!b:angry

Let's justs stop posting and it will be moved to previous pages

dah i can't resist ............

EVASION ???? REALLY ????? b:shockedb:shocked

Solandri - Heavens Tear · November 2010

As best as anyone can tell, the herc buff has always reduced evasion to zero. A bunch of us reported it as a bug about a year ago, which is when they added the evasion reduction to the skill description. Nothing about how the skill worked changed.

xxxdsmer wrote: »

either something has recently changed the herc, or the ENTIRE HH has changed.

i finished off soulbanisher in 1-3 the other day after it killed the other venos in the squad (no cleric around either), then early this week soulbanisher wasnt possible even with a cleric or two in squad (and being cleric buffed).

general feng in 2-3, me and two friends have herctanked it before and it didnt take all 3 of us ONLY pethealing, earlier this week we were all ONLY spamming petheal and it still killed a lv90 or 91 herc (i forget which was tanking first).

All the bosses with big casting attacks can two-shot a herc. Soulbanisher, feng, and drummer are the usual ones. At higher level, you can add wurlord to the list. All of these bosses will do a series of melee attacks, and cast at 10 sec intervals.

The problem is the melee attacks don't sync up exactly with the casts, and any melee attack delay which happens prior to casting gets attributed to the next melee attack after casting. That is, if the delay between melee attacks was almost up just before the boss starts casting, then the next melee attack will happen almost instantaneously after the magic attack.

Normally, just by random chance, the two won't sync up and you'll have a short gap between the magic attack and the melee attack where you can squeeze in a heal. Even when this gap is too short for you to land a heal, usually the magic attack and subsequent melee attack don't do enough damage to kill your herc.

But occasionally, when you get unlucky, the boss will pop off a high damage magic attack, followed almost immediately by a high damage melee attack. Your heal doesn't land in between the two, and your herc gets two-shot. There's really nothing you can do about it - it's all a matter of luck. More channeling and having more venos help heal will lower the chances of it happening, but there's always a chance it can happen.

Because of the random nature of mob damage, differences in when you start spam healing, and differences in internet lag, it's non-deterministic. Just because you managed to kill the boss before doesn't mean you'll always manage to kill it. There just isn't any margin of safety with these bosses and the herc's meager hp. The only way to guarantee a kill is to level up so the mob's damage is reduced and your herc's hp increases enough that your herc can't be two-shot anymore, or to give your herc the bless skill to increase its hp. (In feng's case, his hp debuff reduces your herc's hp enough that it can be two-shot.)

mumish · November 2010

b:surrender im really glad to see this topic!
well as said on previous posts herc evasion has not been changed. its just the skill description. on aoe grinding or on big lures why we need evasion though.. the mobs shouldnt leave him, if they do they come to the veno and this is absolutely not wanted!

im a lvl 98 venomancer on Harshlands with lvl 98 herc.
my herc can tank warlurd in 2-1 with cleric rb. cant tank in 2-2 or 2-3 bc of the dps of boss. i have -33% chan i tried same boss bringing second veno. also tried with a barb with maxed alacrity of beast. Although i can kill whole tt 1-3 bosses with no problem warlurd is not veno-able, and we have to face it b:chuckle

my fury is for pvp! b:surrender
we have to admit that every class comes with their advantages and disadvantages! in every game i played i always heard people crying about "this class is overpowered than others" that is lame! really lame!

if you are afraid of getting asskicked dont play an mmo! just load a game to ur pc and play offline b:laugh
like sins have stealth, clerics have their buff heal sleep , bms have their dragon and stun, archers and wizzies have their massive aoe dmg, barbarians have invoke etc..
every class has their over powered skill which reflects their nature.making bramble not being able to use in pvp made venos melle bait, bc we usually more rich than other classes some sins farm on venos!

tweakz · November 2010

Ironwood reduced evasion to 0. b:cry

Mauntille - Heavens Tear · November 2010

mumish wrote: »

warlurd is not veno-able, and we have to face it b:chuckle

I'm so tired of hearing this. Wurlord is one of the bosses that I kill on a regular basis. Here's a hint: it's harder to heal a herc than it is to tank it yourself under BB. Hercs have their limits; learn how to adapt.

Maiira - Sanctuary · November 2010

high lp full magic genie w/ full mag gear, mine has bout 130 mag with the skill earthquake to interupt wurlord's skill. it is veno solo-able.

xxxdsmer · November 2010

Maiira - Sanctuary wrote: »

i am able to solo heal my herc through 2-3 wurlord have done it numerous times. i played pw-my for 4 months while i waited for pwi to come out. have pvp experience on bm, veno, cleric and archer. have been pking on my veno for 1yr and 4 months and never once has bramble had an effect. i leave bramble on however because some noobs still think it works and it makes them avoid me.

if bramble had worked in pk then all the 5.0 aps'ers would be scared to attack venos.

u can analyze it all you want cause everything i have posted has been true and you are merely building a new bridge to hide under

and you're one of the people that think you're better than everyone else and knows it all. i know for a fact reflect did work, and it was an assassin attacking me. so if you think reflect hasnt worked in the last 1.5 years or w/e you've obviously been hiding under a rock or something.

and btw, isnt sanctuary a pve server anyway?

turn ur brain on and try a pvp server or gtfo about pvp b/c YOU obviously dont know when things did or did not work... mrs. pve server carebear.

done with you. b:byeb:byeb:bye

xxxdsmer · November 2010

Maiira - Sanctuary wrote: »

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=201731

february 23rd is the date of this post QQing because bramble and bramblehood doesnt work in pk. u need to get up to date cause this was more than a year and 9 months ago, so bramble hasnt worked at all in pk since u started playing.

again, i know what i saw, and it was an assassin it happened to.

tideborn isnt 1.5 years old either.

and again...

done with you. b:byeb:byeb:bye

sleepcat · November 2010

In case anyone is still confused about the subject, the Veno reflect from Bramble Guard/Hood works in the following:
-Vs mobs
-In duels
-DT
-Cube
-TWs

In open world PKing, the reflect does not work. It has been like this since Closed Beta I believe. Because of the inconsistency of where it works, it probably caused much confusion as to whether it really worked or not and whether or not it has always been not working. Please make corrections/adjustments if I made any mistakes.

xxxdsmer · November 2010

i couldnt have said this better myself lol...

mumish wrote: »

...my fury is for pvp! b:surrender
we have to admit that every class comes with their advantages and disadvantages! in every game i played i always heard people crying about "this class is overpowered than others" that is lame! really lame!

if you are afraid of getting asskicked dont play an mmo! just load a game to ur pc and play offline b:laugh
like sins have stealth, clerics have their buff heal sleep , bms have their dragon and stun, archers and wizzies have their massive aoe dmg, barbarians have invoke etc..
every class has their over powered skill which reflects their nature.making bramble not being able to use in pvp made venos melle bait, bc we usually more rich than other classes some sins farm on venos!

and grats to Solandri for saying something that actually contributes to the discussion without being inflamatory or trying to be snooty. b:victory

1st hood, then guard, now Strong. whats next?

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