Is it a fake bid?

exent
exent Posts: 197 Arc User
edited November 2010 in General Discussion
Is it a fake bid to try to enter TW and loose in 8 minutes?

I'm asking cause there is a situation on my server where faction A attacked faction B, and faction B won in 8 minutes. Now afterwards faction B got faction A leader banned for fake bidding, saying faction A had no chance of winning, so therefore it's a fake bid...

So basically it's illegal to even try?

PS: faction A bid didn't block any other faction from entering TW. In any case, I thought the anonymous bidding was supposed to fix that problem...
Post edited by exent on

Comments

  • Katzyn - Sanctuary
    Katzyn - Sanctuary Posts: 1,270 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I can't say if it was a fake bid or not, but...

    This is why so many people were so upset when the GMs cracked down on the TW bidding rules...

    Our faction went to war against another a few weeks ago...Many of our members were very adamant that we were gonna get rolled, but some of us thought we might stand a chance, so we went for it.

    We totally got rolled. But ours wasn't a fake bid at all, lol. So, in my opinion, what happened on your server could be the same thing that happened with our faction. *shrugs* And if so, I hope that leader gets unbanned. But, who really knows? Maybe it was a fake bid.
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  • KrittyCat - Dreamweaver
    KrittyCat - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,273 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The real question is whether or not faction A fielded enough members to actually make the TW worthwhile. I have seen TWs go much shorter on Dreamweaver, so I can't say much for the length of time. I am kind of surprised that the defending faction reported it though...it made it easier for them.
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  • Deora - Lost City
    Deora - Lost City Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    exent wrote: »
    Is it a fake bid to try to enter TW and loose in 8 minutes?

    I'm asking cause there is a situation on my server where faction A attacked faction B, and faction B won in 8 minutes. Now afterwards faction B got faction A leader banned for fake bidding, saying faction A had no chance of winning, so therefore it's a fake bid...

    So basically it's illegal to even try?

    PS: faction A bid didn't block any other faction from entering TW. In any case, I thought the anonymous bidding was supposed to fix that problem...

    And...? Relatively large guilds on LC attack the land holding behemoth (Essence) all the time and most of the time lose... and I have yet to see any bans go out
  • Regenbogen - Lost City
    Regenbogen - Lost City Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    exent wrote: »
    Is it a fake bid to try to enter TW and loose in 8 minutes?

    I'm asking cause there is a situation on my server where faction A attacked faction B, and faction B won in 8 minutes. Now afterwards faction B got faction A leader banned for fake bidding, saying faction A had no chance of winning, so therefore it's a fake bid...

    So basically it's illegal to even try?

    PS: faction A bid didn't block any other faction from entering TW. In any case, I thought the anonymous bidding was supposed to fix that problem...

    no! we lost a tw in 2minutes because almost nobody was attending...b:surrender

    but if faction C who was also attacking faction A gave faction B money to attack faction A then it can be considered as fakebid...b:avoid
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  • exent
    exent Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    The problem is that faction A has lots of europeans members, and depending on the time slot, 30 members show up, or only 3... And since now the time slots are completely random... It's impossible to know in advance how many members will be able to participate.

    In any case, since it was a minimum bid on a territory that wasn't even attacked by any other faction, I don't see how this could be worth banning...

    Worse then that, now the GMs say that further action will result in more sever ban. So in other words, faction A is forbidden to ever bid in TW?

    That seems ridiculous...
  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    exent wrote: »
    The problem is that faction A has lots of europeans members, and depending on the time slot, 30 members show up, or only 3... And since now the time slots are completely random... It's impossible to know in advance how many members will be able to participate.

    In any case, since it was a minimum bid on a territory that wasn't even attacked by any other faction, I don't see how this could be worth banning...

    Worse then that, now the GMs say that further action will result in more sever ban. So in other words, faction A is forbidden to ever bid in TW?

    That seems ridiculous...

    GMs are in a polite sense, obligated to take someones word without substantial proof. This first happened on my server, and it's slowly spreading across all of them.
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  • exent
    exent Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Oh, I completely understand how GMs must act in some situation, but that would also mean that GMs should ban the leaders of all facs that try out in TW and don't last more then what 20 minutes?

    The reason given by the GM to ban the leader was that by placing a bid (which was the minimum bid), the faction raised the minimum bid to attack that territory, which could make it harder for another faction to attack that same territory. Now isn't that what bidding is all about? If another faction wanted to attack that territory (and by the way, no other faction even tried to place a bid on it), they can just bid higher and get to go to TW anyway.

    That's like getting banned for placing a bid in AH. Imagine getting banned because by placing a bid, you raised the buying price on an item, thus making it harder for other players to get that same item... Technically, that would also be against TOS:

    ''Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.''

    I still don't understand how a player can can be banned by placing a minimum bid on a territory that no other faction has even bid on...
  • KrittyCat - Dreamweaver
    KrittyCat - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,273 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Seems to me like this thread is less about the bidding process and more about the banning process...in which case bans cannot be discussed on the forums, and the banned person needs to send in a ticket (or e-mail Support).
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  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    exent wrote: »
    Oh, I completely understand how GMs must act in some situation, but that would also mean that GMs should ban the leaders of all facs that try out in TW and don't last more then what 20 minutes?

    The reason given by the GM to ban the leader was that by placing a bid (which was the minimum bid), the faction raised the minimum bid to attack that territory, which could make it harder for another faction to attack that same territory. Now isn't that what bidding is all about? If another faction wanted to attack that territory (and by the way, no other faction even tried to place a bid on it), they can just bid higher and get to go to TW anyway.

    That's like getting banned for placing a bid in AH. Imagine getting banned because by placing a bid, you raised the buying price on an item, thus making it harder for other players to get that same item... Technically, that would also be against TOS:

    ''Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.''

    I still don't understand how a player can can be banned by placing a minimum bid on a territory that no other faction has even bid on...

    In the end, it doesn't matter how or why someone was banned. It was someones will for it to happen, and the GMs carried that wish out, without question.

    Not a damn thing anyone can do about it.
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  • exent
    exent Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    So basically, faction A is not allowed to even try TW ever again? And there is nothing anyone can do about it? Am I the only one who thinks this is insane?
  • frankieraye
    frankieraye Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I am not familiar with this whole story as some of you appear to be, but I can say one thing for sure:

    The GM's take a lot more into account than just the length of the battle.
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  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    exent wrote: »
    So basically, faction A is not allowed to even try TW ever again? And there is nothing anyone can do about it? Am I the only one who thinks this is insane?

    It's the way of PWI. It's a game, run like a police state.

    Go figure.
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  • exent
    exent Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    frankieraye wrote: »
    I am not familiar with this whole story as some of you appear to be, but I can say one thing for sure:

    The GM's take a lot more into account than just the length of the battle.


    I can guess that having only 3 members show up at TW cause a faction didn't get a time slot that allows the core of its members to enter TW is part of the reason to suspect a fake bid. In that case, prooving that when the right time slot is obtained, 30 members show up would be good enought to proove that this isn't a fake bid?

    I would really just like to know if it's possible for small weak factions to participate in TW without fear of being banned. I coul also request a possibility for factions to decide at which time we can do TW, but I know we would never get that... lol
  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    exent wrote: »
    I can guess that having only 3 members show up at TW cause a faction didn't get a time slot that allows the core of its members to enter TW is part of the reason to suspect a fake bid. In that case, prooving that when the right time slot is obtained, 30 members show up would be good enought to proove that this isn't a fake bid?

    I would really just like to know if it's possible for small weak factions to participate in TW without fear of being banned. I coul also request a possibility for factions to decide at which time we can do TW, but I know we would never get that... lol

    Simply put. No.

    Kantorek specifically pointed out that if your faction cannot put out the same player type as the one you're going after, you're cheating.
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  • exent
    exent Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Simply put. No.

    Kantorek specifically pointed out that if your faction cannot put out the same player type as the one you're going after, you're cheating.

    You're right, I just found the post by Kantorek about it.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=871302&highlight=kantorek+fake

    I honestly didn,t know small facs were not allowed to participate in TW. This is very dissapointing...
  • Xarathox - Dreamweaver
    Xarathox - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,657 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    exent wrote: »
    You're right, I just found the post by Kantorek about it.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=871302&highlight=kantorek+fake

    I honestly didn,t know small facs were not allowed to participate in TW. This is very dissapointing...

    Was even more dissapointing when the rules weren't enforced for nearly 2 years...until the leader of a faction on my server got butthurt over a smaller one dissrupting their gank-bid strategy.

    Hooray for spoiled brats with entitlement issues.
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  • yann8888
    yann8888 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I am the one who gt banned. i just want to say that it make 1 year w go and try tw for fun together in faction.Some ppl on pwi are just happy to make faction event like tw together, and soudenly its considerd like make a fake bid... just rly boring.. Sry to say that but if all ppl of pwi are force to be in one of the 4-5 strong faction of the server he play where is the fun?? at least i see w cant just play as w want.. free to try things...
    Also many europeans players ( as me) cant do nothing like friday arch event or else cz of time zone... GM must try to find a way for ALL player getting fun here dam w are not at the army :)
    Well i just finish by saying if u dont want us to try things put minimum bid for tw at 5milion coin as so u ll be sure to hav only strong fac going in
  • Cun - Lost City
    Cun - Lost City Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Deora - Lost City wrote: »
    And...? Relatively large guilds on LC attack the land holding behemoth (Essence) all the time and most of the time lose... and I have yet to see any bans go out

    All the time?
    They hardly get bidden on, but that is another thread b:bye
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  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    RIP TW b:surrender
  • blackkitty88
    blackkitty88 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    sometimes i really think that GMs are only there to make the life of each player the hell of harder! instead of helping them, anyone of you EVER got really good help from a GM?
    and then the other Question, did someone of you got Banned just for a little mistake you done or even if it was absolutly NOT YOUR FOULT?

    actually i know the story which had been and i can proove this is the worst shi* ever GMs have done, its hard enough to find a faction wich participate NOW in TW, and they make it even harder by BANNING PPL which bid for a tw time!

    COMMON i really wait for an apology and nothing like: "if its not you who was banned and just a friend of yours stay out, couse its not your buiseness!" b:angry
  • Cun - Lost City
    Cun - Lost City Posts: 685 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    blackkitty88 wrote: »
    sometimes i really think that GMs are only there to make the life of each player the hell of harder! instead of helping them, anyone of you EVER got really good help from a GM?
    and then the other Question, did someone of you got Banned just for a little mistake you done or even if it was absolutly NOT YOUR FOULT?

    actually i know the story which had been and i can proove this is the worst shi* ever GMs have done, its hard enough to find a faction wich participate NOW in TW, and they make it even harder by BANNING PPL which bid for a tw time!

    COMMON i really wait for an exuse and nothing like, if its not you who was banned and just a friend of yours stay out, couse its not your buiseness! b:angry

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  • Jennalicious - Sanctuary
    Jennalicious - Sanctuary Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Let me guess. Happened on the Sanctuary server, didn't it?
  • blackkitty88
    blackkitty88 Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Let me guess. Happened on the Sanctuary server, didn't it?

    not allowed to give any detailed information, couse 1 false word and the next GM will bann you b:shutupb:bye
  • Jennalicious - Sanctuary
    Jennalicious - Sanctuary Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    blackkitty88 wrote: »
    not allowed to give any detailed information, couse 1 false word and the next GM will bann you b:shutupb:bye

    Seems like we're not allowed to talk about more subjects on the forum than we are allowed to.

    /lame
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    You're a fake bid.

    (Seriously though, this whole "what is a fake bid?" issue is rather nonsensical)
  • PooRitan - Sanctuary
    PooRitan - Sanctuary Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    as someone who was in a land owning faction for a long time and which got attacked by 10-20 factions each weekend for over a year (and more then half of those were fake bids)
    i just can say, good work gms that you protect those now who want to enjoy tw.


    the people in the land owning factions, no matter which faction it is, loose alot of their time, by preparing a tw, pots, sign ups, squad asigements, teamspeak/vent, meeting before tw, squad making and all what comes with it, for a 5 minute roll, where at max 3 people sit in the spawn point, not building towers or doing anything.
    often enough not a single player showed up.
    nothing happened for almost a whole year. or 2? lol


    no one can give me or the others this stolen time back. or can someone of you?
    no you can't
    keep it up gms


    (and i come from europe too, like many of the people in my old ex faction. its no excuse. when you sign up for something, show up)
  • LilyFairy - Sanctuary
    LilyFairy - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I am appalled that GMs would ban a fac leader for biding on a territory they have no chance of winning. I understand it's difficult for GMs to tell between a fake bid and a bid from a small fac who's just trying to have fun, but there are other ways of weaning out the fakes (higher bidding price, secret bids...wasn't that why that new system was implemented?, limit on when you can bid again after you lose, etc.)

    This is a game, we are here to play and have fun!! My fac leaders don't ask us to stay home from work to attend TW, they don't expect us to wake up in the middle of the night to attend either, whoever is online comes, and the people who aren't miss out. Personnally, I couldn't be in a fac that had a motto "when you sign up for something, show up" (That's probably wy I'm in a small friendly fac). I play whenever I can, and I enjoy every minute I spend with my online friends.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    LilyFairy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I am appalled that GMs would ban a fac leader for biding on a territory they have no chance of winning. I understand it's difficult for GMs to tell between a fake bid and a bid from a small fac who's just trying to have fun, but there are other ways of weaning out the fakes (higher bidding price, secret bids...wasn't that why that new system was implemented?, limit on when you can bid again after you lose, etc.)

    This is a game, we are here to play and have fun!! My fac leaders don't ask us to stay home from work to attend TW, they don't expect us to wake up in the middle of the night to attend either, whoever is online comes, and the people who aren't miss out. Personnally, I couldn't be in a fac that had a motto "when you sign up for something, show up" (That's probably wy I'm in a small friendly fac). I play whenever I can, and I enjoy every minute I spend with my online friends.
    You know, the only perceived difficulty in determining fake bids comes from people who want literal interpretations and tread on a line of technicalities.

    Obviously if Faction A attacks Faction B, has 5 people, opposed to Faction B's 200, when both their member numbers and levels are but a fraction of the defender's, and especially don't show up, it's a fake bid.

    It's actually pretty funny cuz I thought this new system of theirs was supposed to reduce or eliminate fake bids, yet all they've done is made people more confused. They should have probably went by Occam's Razor and tried something a little more simplistic and less ambiguous / open to this ridiculous whining.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    LilyFairy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I am appalled that GMs would ban a fac leader for biding on a territory they have no chance of winning.

    That's absolutely horrible of them if any number of people actually showed up to attack.

    These days, not many factions can avoid being steamrolled by a major TW guild. Just because they can't hold out shouldn't mean they can't participate unless they actually stand a chance. That's just idiotic.
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  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    If I had to guess what bullcrap excuse a mod would use...


    Fac A bidded on a land, therefore raising the new minimum bid for a "real" TW

    now despite you saying that no one else bidded on the land, the mod could say that no one tried bidding on the land after that because they decided it wasn't worth it.

    Lot's of stupid and ify excus- cough, reasons in my opinion.

    and ya it's funny how all the updates were supposed to wtfpwn fake bidding, but it still goes on.
    They should've just stuck with old TW bidding rules and banned fake bidders in a case by case system...but wait! that takes too much manpower and effort QQ


    Another possible reason for the ban: Leader of fac A never cashopped/didnt cashop much, and the leader of fac B spends 80% of his paycheck on PWI every friday. If you wave your credit card around infront of the mods, then they will take action

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