How to Tank

Deago - Lost City
Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
edited November 2010 in Barbarian
So many of you like to create a barbarian without realizing what they are truly meant for. We are what you call the sacrifice out of the squad, and not many of you know this but if you are a bad tank no one will want you for anything. In this guide I will tell you what skills to truly upgrade and one to keep for later levels, plus the money lost cause of repairs.

Why The Vit?
Barbs *must have* Tons of hp no matter what you are doing its our duty to have massive amounts of hp. The reason for this you will be the one up front taking everything for the squad. When I say everything I truly mean everything. If you are a barb with low amounts of Hp cause of being a fist barb not many squad will want you cause its not worth having tons of squad wipes and loosing lots of exp.

Skills Must have Maxed
Top Skills that a barb must have maxed when can will be:

Flesh Ream: This skill must be maxed *ASAP* Due to the fact that you must hold aggro against whoever else is in the squad.

True Form: Max this *ASAP* since it gives you better physical defense and more hp when in tiger. (squads love that)

Shape Shifting Intensity: Max when possible since the more you max it the more physical def you get.

Roar: *Must Have* and maxed when can due to the fact if the squad is in trouble you can draw all aggro to you using this skill.

Alcracity: Only level this to 7 since the cancel and cooldown time are in the correct timings.

Sunder: Max *ASAP* you will need this skill since the bleed is high and the more its leveled the more hp you get.

And a must have is **Turtle**: This stops 90% of damage coming at you so instead of 1k+ hitting you its 100+.

Always Have Money
As a barb money is extremely hard to come by since on average repairs cost anywhere from 50k and up. You will need all you money for pots and repairs and skills. When you tank a HH or known as Twlight Temple if you are in desperate money ask if you can have some extra drops for repair bills. And barbs arnt that good at grinding since the low attack damage so its best to make your money selling worth full items.

How to Tank
When tanking you always want to have chi which is good if you have a Veno in your squad. For regular bosses with out AOE you want to spam flesh ream a lot since you always want to have aggro. Now for Aoe bosses this is where alcracity comes into play you are going to have to time this skill correctly while you still hold aggro using flesh ream.

Genie Skills For Tanking

Solid Shield: Its like a weaker version of Turtle but its great when Turtle is in cooldown or if you dont have 2 sparks to use it.

T.O.P (Tree of Protection): Great for barbs all around its a quick heal that gives an extra hp boost and great for in need.


Alpha Male: Like Roar gives you aggro for all mobs near you.

Tangling Mire: Creates a mire under the target and all enemies within 15 meters, reducing their movement speed by 6% and physical defense by 17%

And Extreme Poison: Injects the target with a weakening poison.
For 1.5 seconds, damage received by the target will be increased by 20% .

Occult Ice: This has a chance to freeze the target for 3.3 seconds. Very helpful in Pvp


Well thats all I have for now kinda getting late. Any suggestions i will add them in.

P.S. Very fun class cost a lot to maintain. b:victory
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
Ezio Auditore
Post edited by Deago - Lost City on
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Comments

  • MrSyko - Raging Tide
    MrSyko - Raging Tide Posts: 515 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I think this is pretty good. Doesn't matter how amazing your build is, if you don't have the skill to tank as a barb, you won't get very far.
    However, if you learn to tank properly...we are the most loved class b:cool
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    some of my own notes from my own experience..

    a str build can tank probably better than a vit build could, tbh... HP is not everything. the MOST IMPORTANT part of being a tank is NOT having high HP, but being able to HOLD AGGRO (sorry caps, just wanted to emphasize the important parts). I've seen many high HP barbs totally fail at holding aggro even when the dd's weren't even trying very hard. Logically, more damage based aggro added onto your Ream stacks' aggro = better at holding aggro. That said, True form doesn't need to be maxed to 3 or beyond until you go demon (yes I personally advocate demon since its better aggro holding than sage. higher level sage barbs in my faction, as well as the DD's ask me to tank over the sage's since I hold better).

    Roar I left at low level till I started doing FC / RB (ie 75+) IMO neither it nor Alpha male is essential to have. You can max it if you want, but don't rely on it to "hold" aoe aggro at all. In fact I find that Roar + Bramble rage is better than the genie skill alpha male (which I put on a genie and used maybe once or twice then ditched it all together).

    Yes do max shape shifting intensity

    Learn to use / time / and love bestial rage - it can be a life saver regardless of your HP when used for the oh so lovely magical defense!

    Alacrity I have at level 8. Lag does exist for many many players and I personally found that with the ever suggested level 7 that I was missing too many cancels. I have a macro set up that i can use with lower level damage dealers (Alacrity -> ream -> normal -> ream -> normals -> repeat) that serves as a self sustaining/self canceling macro. I just sit back and hit pots while holding aggro.

    Sunder is nice... I only use it occasionally on bosses though if I happen to have the chi to use it. Used mostly while aoe grinding before I got Armageddon to level 8. (def max sunder before armageddon though).

    one skill that was left out here that can make or break certain situations is Frighten. I LOVE this skill. fighting wurlord with a single cleric is made much much easier with Frighten at a high level.

    about having money...
    if youre asking for extra drops in TT "for repairs".. something is wrong there. just one drop will cover your repairs if everyone is doing their jobs correctly.

    personally my genie has ToP, Tangling Mire, Solid Shield, and Earthflame. Undecided on the fifth skill I'm putting on it.

    lastly, being a great tank takes exeperience, intelligence, and ability to react well when the fit hits the shan.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • Blood_Panda - Raging Tide
    Blood_Panda - Raging Tide Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    since baal has given the demon point of view..

    here is sage point of view even though i am not there yet nor going sage lmao.

    Yes high hp is important..

    going full str with hp lacking and tiger form @ lvl 1 = gg barb unless you have some well sharded gear to cover.

    from a wizard lvl 90 i partied with say it best
    " Whats the point of having 3 cleric healing if the boss 1 shot me"

    Boss with painful debuff will kill any barb that isnt skilled enough in AoB and doesnt have decent HP.

    I know how going demon and full str give tons of benefit in term of solo grinding and holding aggro but vit is the easier way to go.

    Pre FC(Level 80) I have only heard complains about barb not having enough HP and unable to tank. Never about Barb with HP but unable to hold aggro.

    Level 80+ you will find people start picking about aggro holding, but then mostly not a [?] Boss. We still tank those pretty well as damage is cut by half for all DD. and if aggro holding is a issue.. Get calamity or some axe with Sac ability and tell your cleric to work harder.. and it will be okie.

    for normal boss if anyone feel they can tank better.. Sage barb will be more then glad.. to Stand up Do full damage b:pleased
    Build Aiming for : pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=99d12b053ed06fe9
    Retired : pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a798089d5502e95b
    17k hp since level 92.. now @ 13k Hp on 100
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I actually prefer weapons with gloom mod rather than zerk proc. IMO they dish our more consistent damage than the sac/zerk/god of frenzy mods do and don't hurt your HP at all. I'm personally not a pure STR build, my own build follows the formula STR = 3x level + 2, DEX = Level / 2 + 4 (round to nearest whole number), VIT = remaining points

    with my current gear that has me at 208 vit, 290 str, 54 dex, 5 mag. With my gears sharded and refined the way they are, and fully buffed with self buffs I have 13,944 HP in demon true form. I just tanked Sword Tamer for my faction last night and held aggro very well against my archers and fist BM's. However, even with reaming every 5 - 10 seconds and a same level sin with -.1 interval very rarely sparking at all, he stole aggro from me when there was about 500k HP left on the boss. (the others were sparking a lot more TBH). Im just personally not sure if a sage barb could have held aggro as well. As for survivability... one Cleric did BB while the other stacked IHB and threw some team heals and rezzes if needed.

    defensive buffs from bm and cleric were level 10 only (not sage or demon, not really sure what additional benefits you'd get from those tbh). just my own p.o.v
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • Freizer - Lost City
    Freizer - Lost City Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    (mmmm thought I saw your name deago)

    Props to your ideas, their spot on. THink the only thing I woudl add on is tangling mire to the genie list, it's a nice little thing if you feel like doing a slight more damage when your out their being an AOE magnet.

    miss you in guild <3
    Lost City Sage barb and Retired Coven Marshal.
  • Rainesierr - Lost City
    Rainesierr - Lost City Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    EGAD it's a mage in the barb forums! quick, everyone arma/onslaught!

    ontopic: despite not actually being a barb, it's my personal opinion that sage vs demon and probably vit vs str barb are equally good for tanking, and holding agro. in certain situations, one may be good over the other, but tbh, there are both demon and sage, str and vit barbs that can hold my agro. there are also barbs of whatever build that i steal from easily, even though i'm not a dps class, and i don't have lots of -chan. when push comes to shove, pro barbs are going to be pro and fail barbs are going to be fail. regardless of how much you wanna *** around with different builds. find a tanking style that works and roll with it. oh, and don't let me die please.



    PS- imo that last sentence is best tanking advice of all :D
    please sign here: _______________
  • Darth_Puggy - Archosaur
    Darth_Puggy - Archosaur Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Maybe you can tell me if this makes any sense: A good barb can survive a fail cleric.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Darth_Puggy - Archosaur wrote: »
    Maybe you can tell me if this makes any sense: A good barb can survive a fail cleric.

    It makes sense you have to know what your doing. I have personally had cleric die and squad ran at pole with 40k hp left i finished tanking it using top, Turtle, Solid shield, Spark Burst and Sunder.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • SteelStar - Heavens Tear
    SteelStar - Heavens Tear Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Vit is better than Str/Dex as far as true form tanking.

    My stats:
    272 str (green) 100 dex (green)
    MP: 1407 HP: 23001

    All you need is a good cleric and GXs, learn about and how to use your tiger skills.

    If your going to say "well what about 4-5aps" Well here is what I've got to say "**** THEM"
    They were the ones that spent the money. if they can spend the money on -interval and not on HP they deserve it. They should know better.

    Not every barb is going to have 200 dex, 400 str and 30k hp... yes, I know there are some, and even though PWE would love you, there is not reason to spend that much RL money on a game. (Takes 24+10 vit and +11-12 gear)
    It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
    My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
    VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender
  • MrSyko - Raging Tide
    MrSyko - Raging Tide Posts: 515 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    SteelStar - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    They were the ones that spent the money. if they can spend the money on -interval and not on HP they deserve it. They should know better.

    ^This is how I feel. It saves me some repairs.
  • SyGrrr - Archosaur
    SyGrrr - Archosaur Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I agree with the statements about adding more strength to a tank barb. The stronger the hate, the better the aggro hold, so more damage increases aggro. I mean really, who cares how much HP you have if the archer is tanking.

    Also, it helps to add more skills in to help hold aggro. FR has a 3 second cooldown, so use that time to build hate. I usually use devour, but that requires always remembering to use bestial rage to build chi. Remember that devour also lowers the boss/mobs pdef, so I use it more sparingly when holding aggro against a squishy higher level sin. In that case I'll usually use alacrity (which I also use when I don't have enough chi).

    Speaking of alacrity, I have to disagree with the level 7/8 arguments. I say max it. While 90% of the time level 7 or 8 is fine, there are situations in which I need I need to cancel sooner (say, if someone pulls both pole and nob at the same time or the BM cancels wurlord before I do and changes the timing). Just watch for channeling or count the interval.

    And I absolutely disagree with not needing roar or alpha male. Neither skill is intended to "hold" aggro, only to take it, but again, the more hate added, the better the hold is going to be before you adding other skills.
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Roar and Alpha male are more meant for hold large groups of mobs to yourself. Like in Frost or in Large mob runs
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • SyGrrr - Archosaur
    SyGrrr - Archosaur Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Deago - Lost City wrote: »
    Roar and Alpha male are more meant for hold large groups of mobs to yourself. Like in Frost or in Large mob runs

    Not hold aggro, take aggro.
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    SyGrrr - Archosaur wrote: »
    Not hold aggro, take aggro.

    Yes but it still helps take aggro in situations so they are still both good to have.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    if you have a sin in squad invoke>roar>rage>ToP>human>arma is sexy DD and aggro in fcc
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • SyGrrr - Archosaur
    SyGrrr - Archosaur Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Deago - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes but it still helps take aggro in situations so they are still both good to have.

    Yes, which is why I said I disagree with the person who said you don't need it. Wait, are we arguing on the same side?
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    SyGrrr - Archosaur wrote: »
    Yes, which is why I said I disagree with the person who said you don't need it. Wait, are we arguing on the same side?

    I do believe so b:chuckle .... My bad sorry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • Talie - Lost City
    Talie - Lost City Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I think this is an amazing guide, Really helped out my friend on what he should do
  • draggonhatchling
    draggonhatchling Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Thanks for the great "How to Tank" guide Deago!!!!!!!!!!! You beat me to the post of this by a few days. With new people joining everyday and hyper-stoning to get that high level to run with others there are many that really do not know what role their character actually plays in a squad. No dis-respect people, but when in a squad you should know what your role is and how to perform that role. There has been many times that I have joined squads that had a tank who DID NOT KNOW HOW TO TANK and their build was not even close for being a tank. During these times I end up taking up the role of the tank since the one to tank either has no clue or their build is for fist barbs. Don't get me wrong fist barbs are good for damage that's it, but to me a fist barb is EPIC FAIL. They are meant for tanking and well for me also soloing b:laugh
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    draggonhatchling wrote: »
    Thanks for the great "How to Tank" guide Deago!!!!!!!!!!! You beat me to the post of this by a few days. With new people joining everyday and hyper-stoning to get that high level to run with others there are many that really do not know what role their character actually plays in a squad. No dis-respect people, but when in a squad you should know what your role is and how to perform that role. There has been many times that I have joined squads that had a tank who DID NOT KNOW HOW TO TANK and their build was not even close for being a tank. During these times I end up taking up the role of the tank since the one to tank either has no clue or their build is for fist barbs. Don't get me wrong fist barbs are good for damage that's it, but to me a fist barb is EPIC FAIL. They are meant for tanking and well for me also soloing b:laugh

    Thanks Man. I have had the same situation where there have been me and another barb in the same squad and they dont know what to do so i am always ending up being the tank. So im glad it helps and hopefully enough people read it and might get sticky b:victoryb:pleased
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • jay0
    jay0 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Thanks for the info Deago, this really helped me. I wanted to create a barb not knowing the costs or what they are meant for truly. So your guide really helped thanks so much.b:pleased

    Ps. first time ever playing so yes I'm a noob
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    jay0 wrote: »
    Thanks for the info Deago, this really helped me. I wanted to create a barb not knowing the costs or what they are meant for truly. So your guide really helped thanks so much.b:pleased

    Ps. first time ever playing so yes I'm a noob

    Anytime, this game needs barbs who can tank and be good at it and not stupid. And dont worry just at higher levels playing a barb gets hard to quest on your own and low magic defense kinda sucks cause lots of magic mobs at higher levels. But I'm sure you'll do fine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    yes sadly its true i converted back 2 dex build and this time even more then before cos at higher lv vit build sux sadly game mechanic.
    but yeah i think barb shuld we vit untill end game preferable 99 where u can get some good gear unless ur like me and make random OHt gear and somehow get lucky in getting the int u need.
    well cos i yesturday made some some random OHt axes and got minus 200 str i get the idead of going all out and got 242 dex 2 get the gold TT80 bow (int) dont have it yet but just a matter of timeb:pleased.
    if devs make barb get better agro holding i dont mind going vit build again but dont have much hope on that.
    well 2 all barb lost in the dilemma good luck out there damn still need 2 get my hand on the minus ONT req axe if u have any pm me i need one hehe (260str green) b:victory go go barbs .

    ps dont flame me i just made what i like u dont want me kick me from party i dont mind lolz i dont like how vit barb was doing so sue me b:surrender
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I wont lie i think barbs who go 5 aps are pretty fail in my choice, you cant use your skills, sure your now a dd but its fail if you wanted to make a dd class make a sin or bm. Barbs are for tanking get that through your heads.

    Ps dont hate me im just saying my opinion
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Deago - Lost City wrote: »
    I wont lie i think barbs who go 5 aps are pretty fail in my choice, you cant use your skills, sure your now a dd but its fail if you wanted to make a dd class make a sin or bm. Barbs are for tanking get that through your heads.

    Ps dont hate me im just saying my opinion

    Try tanking with your vit build at 100 and see if you can hold argo.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    if bosses in say frost where harder like hitting much harder i think we would see more barbs but having ton of hp is nice ONLY if bosses do hard damage atherwise whats the point of hp.

    if a regular non refined bm who have less hp then a same sharded barb can tank then u knew what is wrong LOL.

    we were loved cos no bm could tank them but now that even a SIn can tank now what the point once again in vitality barb or barb for that matter.

    if they dont make same thing they did on TT we aint gona get sht here lolz.


    sad but its the trueb:shocked
  • Axelire - Heavens Tear
    Axelire - Heavens Tear Posts: 286 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Deago - Lost City wrote: »
    I wont lie i think barbs who go 5 aps are pretty fail in my choice, you cant use your skills, sure your now a dd but its fail if you wanted to make a dd class make a sin or bm. Barbs are for tanking get that through your heads.

    Ps dont hate me im just saying my opinion

    I disagree.

    Re-stating to dex and relying on interval does not mean thats all you are. When you equip your axes, go into true form, you're still the tank you were, minus a few thousand HP.

    So in addition to being a tank, dex/interval builds are also DDers. Which form you choose to use, at what time, depends on the situation.

    Don't think of it as a limitation.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Deago - Lost City
    Deago - Lost City Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I never said i was wrong or that was my only opinion, just i dont think its good, i personally think its a waste of being the class you are meant to be.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nothing is true. Everything is Permitted.
    Ezio Auditore
  • SaintToadElf - Archosaur
    SaintToadElf - Archosaur Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I like to use the Wind Shield skill on my barb's genie. It gives extra protection and increases the attack rate. I won't max it because that only increases the amount of time it's active and having it at a lower Energy cost let's me use it more often. Attacking more often can help keep the aggro. I usually use Spark or the Chi building skill before using it.
    My barb is lvl 63 and he is sought after for instances and such. I know you end-gamers have some worries about 5aps and what not, but the majority of people who play never get to lvl 100 and everyone pretty much needs barbs from where I stand.
  • _Ghoul_ - Lost City
    _Ghoul_ - Lost City Posts: 973 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    sadly i was on ether and still when ppl see i am dex they tell me i am fail when they are 6x
    ofc at that lv no barb should go dex but at end game we basecally have 2 option as i see it.
    go vit and do hh3- or NV and go dex INT build so different and yet its the true b:surrender.

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