BB madness

_Tiamat_ - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Having recently seen the latest craze of clerics putting up BB for the sake of BB, i have to ask...WTF. And yes this happens even with 2 clerics in squad....my favourite was a level 95+ squad with 3 clerics in it and BB and RB went up on Stygean

The other day i was killing blackhole on my veno, we added a cleric to squad she bb'd....my herc was tanking.

I have had a cleric bb in a TT with herc tanking, and when asked why was told 'i cant be arsed to do anything else' .....so your in the squad why?

Clerics BBing on stygean, or for 2 critters......why? Yes BB does cut the damage received down BUT if everyone is doing their job and not trying to do everyone elses, on non aoe critters the only one taking damage is the tank, and he/she can be healed with IH very effectively, should archer grab aggro a quick wellspring in his/her direction suffices till barb/tank has aggro back

Throwing up BB for no reason other than being a lazy **** cleric means DD dont control their own chars they bash about with no regard to their damage output, so when they get a cleric who actually knows what their IronHeart button is for, they go into shock.

Maybe i am not understanding why there is a craze of BB for sake of it clerics, can anyone shed some light?

Liebe - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Laziness. That's it.
I throw up BB if I have to unexpectedly AFK, then I come back and get back to regular healing.
I throw up BB if a ton of mobs are randomly aggro'd. Makes life easier for everyone.
BB on bosses that need BB.
If a herc is tanking, I will either RB if it is a squad that doesn't have their sage/demon sparks, or I will help DD.
b:surrender

VlLKASS - Sanctuary · October 2010

Everyone can play however they want. If they being totally useless then just dump them out of squad.

_Tiamat_ - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Liebe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Laziness. That's it.
I throw up BB if I have to unexpectedly AFK, then I come back and get back to regular healing.
I throw up BB if a ton of mobs are randomly aggro'd. Makes life easier for everyone.
BB on bosses that need BB.
If a herc is tanking, I will either RB if it is a squad that doesn't have their sage/demon sparks, or I will help DD.
b:surrender

Agreed b:victory

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · October 2010

because pre-59 IH is only spell u need, and then - BB

_Tiamat_ - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

because pre-59 IH is only spell u need, and then - BB

if your a lazy **** cleric yes however, if you constantly bb, DD dont control their damage, you then have all this DD hitting level 100 and going to Nirvana, where you cannot BB and DD are going to aggro bounce like mad because they havent learned to control their damage......really dont wanna be in those squads cos messy isnt the wordb:shocked

Swannx - Archosaur · October 2010

I BB all the time at my level not out of laziness, but because usually the tank can't hold aggro. When your squad is filled with Lv. 100+ 5 APS users, you will realize that BB is much more effective than IH in later levels; but it also depends on what boss you're killing. For instance, if you're killing AE, no fool is going to put up a BB. If you're in a TT3-x, though, and you got some crazy DD in squad like I usually do, then you want to put up BB for like... Deathflow.

Also, when a class other than a barb is tanking, it is usually better to just put up a BB.

Nirvana is an entirely different story...

Cocobelle - Sanctuary · October 2010

Swannx - Archosaur wrote: »

I BB all the time at my level not out of laziness, but because usually the tank can't hold aggro. When your squad is filled with Lv. 100+ 5 APS users, you will realize that BB is much more effective than IH in later levels; but it also depends on what boss you're killing. For instance, if you're killing AE, no fool is going to put up a BB. If you're in a TT3-x, though, and you got some crazy DD in squad like I usually do, then you want to put up BB for like... Deathflow.

Also, when a class other than a barb is tanking, it is usually better to just put up a BB.

Nirvana is an entirely different story...

This is true. I normally put BB up if I know there will be aggro pullers. b:surrender

Annonrae - Sanctuary · October 2010

I'm somewhat in two minds about it.

As sad as it sounds, with Hypers and Oracles around, people reach 90+ without knowing a damn thing about aggro control - and if you tell them about it, they don't listen. Or don't want to listen, something I find occurs quite often recently.

Sure, I could let them die if they draw aggro on a boss they can't tank, but where does that leave me? In a squad yelling at me to revive, DDs stopping their DD so the boss doesn't die while we have a body on the ground, the barb invoking so I have time to res, and so on.

Also: sometimes, that BB damage reduction is what lets a squishy tank certain bosses WAY faster than the lower-levelled tank, or even same- or over-levelled tank.

And finally, because in the end of it, there is nothing more annoying to me than aggro-pingpong. Sure, often it happens unintentionally, but I've been in squads where it was intentional, and I'd rather BB then, get my stupid BH done, and *not* have gone to waste a) wine/wine fee and b) time spent looking for a different squad.

Sometimes, you just *can't* switch fast enough to save a squishy from being one-shot by, say, Stygean. Sometimes a squishy is SO squishy that a Wellspring or three won't save them. I pretty much don't care if it makes me a lazy cleric: I'd rather have a squad that can go all-out feeling ( relatively ) save in BB, knowing even the squishies can take a hit or three without my having to break out in sweat switching crazily between heal targets, than a squad that takes 10 minutes to kill a boss that could be killed in 1 ( exaggerating, but you get my drift ).

Non-cleric people somehow often assume that BB is the end-all of all heals, as if it's a bubble of immortality; if they see their HP take a dive toward zero despite standing pretty in my blue bubble, it's a well-learned lesson, and one I hope they will remember. I can't comment on Nirvana yet, but I would think just knowing the cleric can't put up BB will make the DDs realize that the immortality bubble isn't going to happen, thus making them more careful in the first place. By the time you reach Nirvana levels, you should definitely know that no BB = cleric has to manually switch between heal targets. Frankly, by the time we reach BH51 ( Rankar, anyone? ) levels, DDs should be aware of that. If they can't wrap their head around that concept...

/two cents

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · October 2010

_Tiamat_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if your a lazy **** cleric yes however, if you constantly bb, DD dont control their damage, you then have all this DD hitting level 100 and going to Nirvana, where you cannot BB and DD are going to aggro bounce like mad because they havent learned to control their damage......really dont wanna be in those squads cos messy isnt the wordb:shocked

no worries, then u just re-roll as one of those DDs and healing isnt ur prob anymore b:victory

_Tiamat_ - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Swannx - Archosaur wrote: »

When your squad is filled with Lv. 100+ 5 APS users, you will realize that BB is much more effective than IH in later levels;

I AM later levels i am level 100 and no i dont agree or realise BB is best course of action, for reasons i have already stated.

Sin tanks tend to need BB on bosses ....agreed. However, if your in a squad with 5 APS users ....at level 100 they *should* be aware of damage control, aggro pulling and play accordingly instead of stabbing about willy nilly 'protected' by the magical blue bubble. I have seen said squads and then when they have still died stupid things like 'oh its clerics magic not high enough so bb isnt strong enough!' ..... ummm no its you thinking your rambo and your really not b:laugh

@ Paramedic, lmao more than 1 char and i know about DD etc, i dont expect a cleric to BB so i dont have to learn how to control my character, in a team its just that TEAM work, you all do your job instead of slashing about willy nilly and having no regard for your DPS.

BarbLord - Raging Tide · October 2010

I actually died once and had few near deaths when tanking due to clerics BBing
1 time in bh59 at drake, we had someone lure drake with a zeal, but it was a bad pull and the ads came to, now here I come in I quickly agroed drake and his ads by using alpha male(roar is often to slow to get running mobs due to its casting time) and after that hit invoke so I wouldn't die and then the cleric BBed
now heres the problem drake and his ads have this nasty fire DoT and I'm getting a pretty bad stack of it on me, we killed the ads, while I'm spamming pots(I am not lvl 75 yet so no hp foods for me and I'm not charmed) and anything to stay alive but a shame the DoT was still to strong and I end up dead
The other barb grabs agro and the cleric drops BB and resses me luckily on time
But if the cleric had not BBed or dropped it earlier and purified me I would have survived and no one else would have died due to the fact that my agro control wasn't the problem

And before you go hating on me
Yes what I did might have been mindless heroism trying to save the lurer but in my experience if I would have let him die someone would try to save him
Yes I do believe the cleric did the best he could, my death was nothing more then miscommunication
And last the moral of this is that BB is usaly the easiest solution to keep people alive but not always the best solution

StreamElf - Sanctuary · October 2010

BarbLord - Raging Tide wrote: »

And before you go hating on me
Yes what I did might have been mindless heroism trying to save the lurer but in my experience if I would have let him die someone would try to save him
Yes I do believe the cleric did the best he could, my death was nothing more then miscommunicationAnd last the moral of this is that BB is usaly the easiest solution to keep people alive but not always the best solution

It's no mindless heroism. It's a good thing to grab them. I've had that alot and the barb always grabbed them. The cleric should have just IHed. Part of being a good cleric is knowing what to do and when to do it.

Anyway.. I like BB because i'm lazy, but i don't do it when i know when it's better to just IH. (:

Boots_Elf - Sanctuary · October 2010

I BB alot cause no matter where I am or what bosses we are doing.. when I IH everyone always asks.. you gonna BB? Whres the BB? Can you BB please.. As for BBing at Drake.. why would a cleric? I have never BB'd at Drake.. for one.. he breaks it...

Felizia - Lost City · October 2010

<=would rather dd than healing o,o

MystiMonk - Sanctuary · October 2010

BarbLord - Raging Tide wrote: »

I actually died once and had few near deaths when tanking due to clerics BBing
1 time in bh59 at drake, we had someone lure drake with a zeal, but it was a bad pull and the ads came to, now here I come in I quickly agroed drake and his ads by using alpha male(roar is often to slow to get running mobs due to its casting time) and after that hit invoke so I wouldn't die and then the cleric BBed
now heres the problem drake and his ads have this nasty fire DoT and I'm getting a pretty bad stack of it on me, we killed the ads, while I'm spamming pots(I am not lvl 75 yet so no hp foods for me and I'm not charmed) and anything to stay alive but a shame the DoT was still to strong and I end up dead
The other barb grabs agro and the cleric drops BB and resses me luckily on time
But if the cleric had not BBed or dropped it earlier and purified me I would have survived and no one else would have died due to the fact that my agro control wasn't the problem

And before you go hating on me
Yes what I did might have been mindless heroism trying to save the lurer but in my experience if I would have let him die someone would try to save him
Yes I do believe the cleric did the best he could, my death was nothing more then miscommunication
And last the moral of this is that BB is usaly the easiest solution to keep people alive but not always the best solution

BB can make your charm tick if charmed and in 59 it is hardly worth it even 69.

Aeroboi - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Why BB?, so DD can go nuts = faster boss killing, okay not the best way to put it

but i play Cleric Barb and archer, and BB is not always needed, but then again sometimes its better

That Drake intance would have been fine on a IH or 2 + Purfie, but then again cleric probly never knew drakes ranged attack is only a DoT

One thing ive noticed is theres some VERY bad barbs around, magic rings anyone ?
completly unable to hold any kind of good agro, like i as my archer may aswell just sit out sometimes, thats why i ASK for BB on say Pyro,

if the barb is **** ill use a lvl 1 bow for pole and nob, like comon my barb 10 lvls lower then my archer and holds agro better then some of teh randoms ive met up with for BH, only time i would steal from my barb is when i +spraked and crit alot, and even then my barb was still getting it back in a timely fashion

after all im a Damage Dealer its what i do, its what im there for, i dont seek to steal, just to get that damm boss killed,

But in saying that, Damage Control is needed, after all a good barb cant hold everything

Sevas - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Aeroboi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But in saying that, Damage Control is needed, after all a good barb cant hold everything

Absolutely not true. When I was 96 I fought with a barb about ten levels lower than I was and he held it from me. I was trying very hard to get agro even though I knew it was a stupid thing to do. If a barb really knows his (her) stuff they can hold agro from people 10+ levels above them. They are a rare few if they can successfully hold agro from everyone no matter their level or their squad's level. Granted, it is best if the squad is similar in levels.

Swannx - Archosaur · October 2010

Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Absolutely not true. When I was 96 I fought with a barb about ten levels lower than I was and he held it from me. I was trying very hard to get agro even though I knew it was a stupid thing to do. If a barb really knows his (her) stuff they can hold agro from people 10+ levels above them. They are a rare few if they can successfully hold agro from everyone no matter their level or their squad's level. Granted, it is best if the squad is similar in levels.

I don't think his statement isn't ENTIRELY wrong... because I know an AMAZING Lv. 101 sage barb who in the end cannot hold aggro against a Lv. 100 lunar claw wielding 5 APS sin. He can certainly hold aggro for the most part, but it still does bounce back a few times too many. But then again, this sin is AMAZING too... 1st place sin for Celestial Tiger events lol.

Oh and also when fighting mob pulls, it's hard for a barb to keep aggro on everything if other DDs start hitting the other mobs that the barb isn't reaming on.

Sevas - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Well, the barbs I used to play with could do it. They, unfortunately, do not play anymore. Of course, one of my favorite BMs liked to play "hard to get" with barbs on bosses too. This BM could tank better than most barbs, but if a barb could hold agro from him he was impressed and so was I. (But those barbs don't exist anymore.)

Erikellia - Sanctuary · October 2010

Because its sooo blue and shiny...(ADHD aside)b:laugh

I don't use BB a lot because I hate the cost of the mp pots that come with it(almost lvl 75 to get food ^_^). But I do agree with a lot of y'all above and when I have to go afk or something I will pop it but when I do it the most is with a squad of random people and the game of aggro tag gets annoying. I have been in squads where one person decides to bring in the boss while two more go and grab a mob from across the room (idiots lol) and I am forced to because I know that if the tank dies I get it and from a quick heal on the idiots (usually just in the zone not noticing that they went and grabbed a random mob) if they die I get mobs from everywhere. But 90% of the time I just do the Ironheart Wellspring combo.b:victory

Balthier - Dreamweaver · October 2010

If the boss dies faster with BB, why would you use a different approach?

I always use the most efficient skills available for the boss in question, if that is BB I will use it, if it is IH/Wellspring/Debuffs I will use those.

Why would you purposefully NOT use BB on a boss, when you know that it can let all DD's go all out and drop the boss that much faster?

Your logic sounds weird to me, maybe you ment something different?

Rule - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Balthier - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If the boss dies faster with BB, why would you use a different approach?

I always use the most efficient skills available for the boss in question, if that is BB I will use it, if it is IH/Wellspring/Debuffs I will use those.

Why would you purposefully NOT use BB on a boss, when you know that it can let all DD's go all out and drop the boss that much faster?

Your logic sounds weird to me, maybe you ment something different?

+1

Also note, no matter how good the Barb holding aggro against sustained high level DD whether from high APS or significant gear difference is not ever going to be 100%. Usually the people with higher level DD will be able to stand for a few hits but they should recieve the benefit from the cleric in squad as well.
Using IH takes a couple seconds to catch up with the damage from most bosses and is not an instant heal, BB provides constant damage reduction and periodic heals which often proves more effective in protecting the squad as a whole.
Too many clerics now days (Oracle\hyper babies I assume) believe thier job is simply to stack the barb\tank and to hell with the rest of the squad. Gone are the days where a single cleric could see a dungeon through without a charm tick for the entire squad.

vristion · October 2010

Too many clerics now days (Oracle\hyper babies I assume) believe thier job is simply to stack the barb\tank and to hell with the rest of the squad. Gone are the days where a single cleric could see a dungeon through without a charm tick for the entire squad.

Clerics that rely solely on BB lose sight of reaction timing, and aggro predictions. And ultimately lose the ability to build heal strategies for every occasion. People need to keep in mind, eventually content will be out that BB will be virtually useless in.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver · October 2010

vristion wrote: »

Clerics that rely solely on BB lose sight of reaction timing, and aggro predictions. And ultimately lose the ability to build heal strategies for every occasion. People need to keep in mind, eventually content will be out that BB will be virtually useless in.

qft :P

VlLKASS - Sanctuary · October 2010

where you cannot BB and DD are going to aggro bounce like mad because they havent learned to control their damage......

Nirvana is extremely easy to tank, just let them.
Met some clerics that refused to heal just cause I'm not a barb

Thus I can't tank. Meh go figure.

Also if I'm not mistaken using bb is cheaper than spamming demon/sage IH.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary · October 2010

I like BB when I know there are extreme DD's in my squad and aggro will fly all over. It's easier on me. b:laugh

Tojop - Dreamweaver · October 2010

Aeroboi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why BB?, so DD can go nuts = faster boss killing, okay not the best way to put it

this. Especially in BH 79 with a squad full of 95+, the bosses will be dead in under a minute anyways. Aggro control is pretty meaningless when everyone in squad is able to tank with BB up. While that is not usually the case, it is in 79. You should have given a different example.

Edit: also, what Balthier said

Xoria - Sanctuary · October 2010

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also if I'm not mistaken using bb is cheaper than spamming demon/sage IH.

That is true, but it still doesn't give people a reason to just throw up regeneration aura whenever they feel like it.

Clerics refusing to heal a team mate seems pointless to me. It's one more meat shield between you (the cleric) and the offending enemy; might as well keep them alive! b:chuckle That probably just goes hand in hand with being too reliant on using BB; slow reaction to where the enemy faces and healing that target.

DrFeealGood - Archosaur · October 2010

Who cares? Find a cleric that knows what they're doing. It's as simple/complicated as that.

Sarieanna - Raging Tide · October 2010

BBing is good for some instances.

But I've seen clarics relying solely on BB. b:shocked

Theres a good time and place for everything, but when the barb is up ahead tanking, and the rest of the group is behind, please dont BB at the very far back.

Its not madness, they just need some more common sense. b:chuckle

BB madness

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