Why Pure Mag?
Azwraith - Lost City
Posts: 7 Arc User
Most mages (from what I've read and seen) goes Pure Mag build with HP shards added into sockets. I dont really see the point in doing so.
From what I' ve read, Pure Mag mages would have around 15-20% more damage than the other builds eg. Light Armor/ Full Vit.
Lets assume that most mages at level 100 would have around 5000 HP, being full vit build (minimum magic) would get you around 2000 more hp.
Doing the math,
2000/5000 x100= 40%
As a Full vit mage, you would roughly gain around 40% more survivability and lose around 15-20% attack power. I dont really see the point in going pure mag.
The only reason that I could think of, of going pure mag rather than vit is to fulfil the "mages are meant to deal damage and not tank" statement. Imo, I rather have a balance of both damage and survivability. (Besides, I dont really lose THAT much damage)
Another variation would be adding Diamond of Tigers into all the sockets and going Full vit. In this way, lets assume there are around 20 sockets available in your equipment, you would gain around 20% Atk Level which would mean that you would get around the same attack power as the pure int. Assuming that the pure mag mage uses full immac citrine (+50 HP) shards(since its cost is the closest to diamond of tiger) in all 20 sockets. It would mean that a full vit mage with diamond of tigers would have around 1000 hp more than a pure mag mage with immac citrine shards. Therefore, unless the pure mag mage is rich enough to equip citrine gems into all the sockets, I dont think pure mag is the way to go.
Can any other pro mages enlighten me why do you choose to go full mag? It would be better if the arguement is backed up with some math and numbers. Thanks in advance
From what I' ve read, Pure Mag mages would have around 15-20% more damage than the other builds eg. Light Armor/ Full Vit.
Lets assume that most mages at level 100 would have around 5000 HP, being full vit build (minimum magic) would get you around 2000 more hp.
Doing the math,
2000/5000 x100= 40%
As a Full vit mage, you would roughly gain around 40% more survivability and lose around 15-20% attack power. I dont really see the point in going pure mag.
The only reason that I could think of, of going pure mag rather than vit is to fulfil the "mages are meant to deal damage and not tank" statement. Imo, I rather have a balance of both damage and survivability. (Besides, I dont really lose THAT much damage)
Another variation would be adding Diamond of Tigers into all the sockets and going Full vit. In this way, lets assume there are around 20 sockets available in your equipment, you would gain around 20% Atk Level which would mean that you would get around the same attack power as the pure int. Assuming that the pure mag mage uses full immac citrine (+50 HP) shards(since its cost is the closest to diamond of tiger) in all 20 sockets. It would mean that a full vit mage with diamond of tigers would have around 1000 hp more than a pure mag mage with immac citrine shards. Therefore, unless the pure mag mage is rich enough to equip citrine gems into all the sockets, I dont think pure mag is the way to go.
Can any other pro mages enlighten me why do you choose to go full mag? It would be better if the arguement is backed up with some math and numbers. Thanks in advance
Post edited by Azwraith - Lost City on
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/inb420pagedebateonwhichbuildisbetter0
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Nothing wrong with adding VIT. However, you shouldn't have more then a base of 50 or you start losing more damage then the survivability is worth. If you choose to PvP what is the point of being able to live just a little bit longer if you can't even tick your enemy's charm? We can make up for low hp/pdef with kiting abilities. Distance Shrink, Force of Will, Sopoforic Whisper, and Holy Path from your genie. I have 50 base VIT and 5k base hp. I'm happy with this, fully buffed i have over 10k pdef, over 6k with just self buff, this isn't the greatest, but it is pretty good since I don't spend money on the game.0
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That's actually a pretty interesting idea with the full diamond of tiger build with vit added in.
Maybe if someone can make some calculations (i'm too lazy) we can see if its a plausible build for survivability with decent/good damage.0 -
The difference between LA and arcane is ~150 stat points at end game which is 1500 hp. I'm also curious where you got the 15-20% extra damage from. Magic points are used to calculate your base magic attack, which also depends on weapon damage. Then for the actual damage you do you need to add in the static skill damage + weapon multiplier on the skills themselves. That 15-20% may be accurate for one person at a given time with one skill, but does not necessarily hold true for other things.
For instance, with a bad weapon and using BIDS, a majority of your damage might come from the static skill damage on BIDS, so the difference between 150 magic points may be very small (lets say 10-20%). Now with a very good weapon and a skill that doesn't have a high static skill value like gush, those extra magic points could potentially increase damage far more (lets say 30-50%.. who knows?)
If you want to calculate the extra damage you need to take into account the weapon you will be using and the skills, not just some number somebody came up with.Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
Adroit - Lost City wrote: »The difference between LA and arcane is ~150 stat points which is 1500 hp. I'm also curious where you got the 15-20% extra damage from. Magic points are used to calculate your base magic attack, which also depends on weapon damage. Then for the actual damage you do you need to add in the static skill damage + weapon multiplier on the skills themselves. That 15-20% may be accurate for one person at a given time with one skill, but does not necessarily hold true for other things.
For instance, with a bad weapon and using BIDS, a majority of your damage might come from the static skill damage on BIDS, so the difference between 150 magic points may be very small (lets say 10-20%). Now with a very good weapon and a skill that doesn't have a high static skill value like gush, those extra magic points could potentially increase damage far more (lets say 30-50%.. who knows?)
If you want to calculate the extra damage you need to take into account the weapon you will be using and the skills, not just some number somebody came up with.
I included the magic that were given by tomes/armors. Those points were put into vit.
the 15-20% extra damage was taken from the thread with a very detailed comparison between LA and pure int with lots of damage test and math in it. I'll try to find the thread later. Its something like around 20% damage difference for weaker spells and around 15% damage difference for ultimates.
Edit: Nvm I found the site: http://magearmorguide.myfreeforum.org/In_depth_Robe_vs_Light_armor_analysis_about3.html
These were the test result comparing LA vs Pure Mag using neon pugatory +12
Percentage differences using PvP data only (since the percentages should match PvE, as seen in the previous results):
Glacial Snare>>2594-2309=285 or about 11% less damage
Sandstorm>>2495-2167=328 or about 13.1% less damage
Divine Pyrogram>>2259-1939=320 or about 14.2% less damage
Stone Rain>>1879-1598=281 or about 15% less damage
Gush>>1564-1267=297 or about 19% less damage
Pyrogram>>1567-1257=310 or about 19.8% less damage
Mountain Seize>>3634-3335=299 or about 8.2% less damage
Black Ice Dragon Strike>>3882-3570=312 or about 8% less damage
Blade Tempest>>3216-2790=426 or about 13.2% less damage0 -
Azwraith - Lost City wrote: »I included the magic that were given by tomes/armors. Those points were put into vit.
the 15-20% extra damage was taken from the thread with a very detailed comparison between LA and pure int with lots of damage test and math in it. I'll try to find the thread later. Its something like around 20% damage difference for weaker spells and around 15% damage difference for ultimates.
Edit: Nvm I found the site: http://magearmorguide.myfreeforum.org/In_depth_Robe_vs_Light_armor_analysis_about3.html
These were the test result comparing LA vs Pure Mag using neon pugatory +12
Percentage differences using PvP data only (since the percentages should match PvE, as seen in the previous results):
Glacial Snare>>2594-2309=285 or about 11% less damage
Sandstorm>>2495-2167=328 or about 13.1% less damage
Divine Pyrogram>>2259-1939=320 or about 14.2% less damage
Stone Rain>>1879-1598=281 or about 15% less damage
Gush>>1564-1267=297 or about 19% less damage
Pyrogram>>1567-1257=310 or about 19.8% less damage
Mountain Seize>>3634-3335=299 or about 8.2% less damage
Black Ice Dragon Strike>>3882-3570=312 or about 8% less damage
Blade Tempest>>3216-2790=426 or about 13.2% less damage
I skimmed it a little, not gonna spend the time to verify that all the math/tests were accurate, so for the sake of conversation we'll say that it is a 15-20% difference. 15-20% is a pretty significant percentage, and could easily be the deciding factor in pvp. I can't tell you how many times I've barely bypassed somebody's charm. That small change in damage is pretty significant when our skills do alot of damage (hitting people for 5 digits is a common sight at end game).. especially with all the ways to increase our damage (undine, extreme poison, frenzy, genie spark, magic atk charms, triple spark, crits, etc etc). It's up to you, but realize that a mage's only use in this game is to deal damage :PYoutube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
[SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]0 -
I'm leaning towards a diamond of tiger build, while being pure mag (always been), already used it in 2 endgame pieces.Moog - Lost City wrote: »That's actually a pretty interesting idea with the full diamond of tiger build with vit added in.
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Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »I'm leaning towards a diamond of tiger build, while being pure mag (always been), already used it in 2 endgame pieces.
Amour, if he hasn't changed his gear, is all sharded with atk lv+1 stones. He calls himself a true glass cannon.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
thought about attack lvl shards in endgame gear too, but they cost a lot lol and need to refine higher
pure mag has more mana! its over 9000!
i was happy when i reached the personal goal of 10k unbuffed mana xdi like potato0 -
i always seen LA as punishment for high crit dex classes
those that get dex as their damage modifier
being LA is the worst of both worlds crappy phys def and crappy mag def
and wdf am i gonna do with all that str? go punch a guy to death?
until you have +7 and up end game armor vit mag is really the best you can do
after you get enough hp from armor refines then stat out vitb:bye0 -
idk, wizard is the class that uses HIGH SPIKE HITS
gets more damage for the spike by being pure mag...
the difference between 1shot and charm tick is what ur looking for
~you want your aoe to drop all your targets in TW, **** survivability! *genie frenzy on*i like potato0 -
HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »idk, wizard is the class that uses HIGH SPIKE HITS
gets more damage for the spike by being pure mag...
the difference between 1shot and charm tick is what ur looking for
~you want your aoe to drop all your targets in TW, **** survivability! *genie frenzy on*
b:shutupbeing vit doesnt stop me from hitting those 18k+ crits with sage BIDS
but now im not sage....b:crySins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
well use demon BT then...
yay interrupt! /wtf? **** add!i like potato0 -
HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »well use demon BT then...
yay interrupt! inb4wtf?**** add!
fixed
WTF **** ADD!Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »Amour, if he hasn't changed his gear, is all sharded with atk lv+1 stones. He calls himself a true glass cannon.
Yap.
+16 attack level in my gear.
BTW, vit/hp only goes so far. It's amazing at lower levels, because 10 hp per vit is a lot! But as you level up and get better gear, you start seeing your HP above 5/6k (which isn't unreasonable) at 100 then 150 vit will only increase your hp so much while sacrificing your damage.
I have 6417 HP unbuffed right now, with +7/8 g12-g15 gear and a +11 nirvana weapon. Although my HP is quite decent, it could be up to ~8100 with citrine gems instead of DoT, and I have 4 g15 items to +10, which will bring it up to ~7700 unbuffed, with citrines ~9400.
I'm not sure if my DoTs are worth it for World PK, but they certainly are for PvE and especially TW.
Shards are certainly up to the player, whether you want HP, Attack Level, or maybe Defense level, but I think once you get up to higher levels you'll realize you can find HP other places, but your damage only comes from two sources (three if you count shards) - Weapons and magic points."Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
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Amour - Lost City wrote: »Shards are certainly up to the player, whether you want HP, Attack Level, or maybe Defense level, but I think once you get up to higher levels you'll realize you can find HP other places, but your damage only comes from two sources (three if you count shards) - Weapons and magic points.
Good point. I'd rather be a glass cannon that grows into an iron cannon, so I've been full mag from the start. Why would anybody wanna be an iron pea shooter? I would re-roll for a BM to do that, and do it right.
Only question I have is when is pdef too much relative to your HP? Saw some math on that somewhere, but it wasn't convincing.0 -
My personal opinion is ~10k pdef full buffed with regular adorns (+5-7 g11) is perfect fine. I have that without pdef shards and only sage barrier, and if I ever get cube neck and WS belt and +10 them, it'll jump to 13k+ which is ideal end game pdef. With cv rings and decent adorns your pdef will be fine, I'd say focus HP at level 100 regardless. Barrier ftw"Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
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Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »Good point. I'd rather be a glass cannon that grows into an iron cannon, so I've been full mag from the start. Why would anybody wanna be an iron pea shooter? I would re-roll for a BM to do that, and do it right.
Only question I have is when is pdef too much relative to your HP? Saw some math on that somewhere, but it wasn't convincing.
I was always told that 7.5k hp barb buffed and 10k pdef fully buffed was a good minimum to stand by for TW/pk, here on heaven's tear it does/did me good, as mentioned before wizards have lots of kiting skills and tons of survivability (imo)
remember that all stats in the game suffer from diminishing returns so the difference between 10k-20k pdef is much lower than 5k-10k pdef - once you hit a certain point it stops being worth as much.
tl;dr - as amour said, get around 10-13k pdef then work on hp[SIGPIC]http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4183/sgtdrunkramble.png[/SIGPIC]
DUTY_CALLS - Heavens Tear: "I QUIT THE FORM'S FROM NOW U ALL JUST FORM TROLL'S AND TALK **** ALL TIME MEET ME IN PvP U GOT SOMTHING TO SAYb:shocked"0 -
Not really o.o I think it's about the same.Prohibited - Heavens Tear wrote: »remember that all stats in the game suffer from diminishing returns so the difference between 10k-20k pdef is much lower than 5k-10k pdef - once you hit a certain point it stops being worth as much.
Only reason why it suffers from diminishing returns is because you need a lot more stuff to get from 10k to 20k (since all stats/shards are additive, i.e +x pdef) than from 5k to 10k.0 -
Either way... 7.5k hp w/ 10kpdef is still real good.The doctor will see you now.0
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Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »Good point. I'd rather be a glass cannon that grows into an iron cannon, so I've been full mag from the start. Why would anybody wanna be an iron pea shooter? I would re-roll for a BM to do that, and do it right.
Only question I have is when is pdef too much relative to your HP? Saw some math on that somewhere, but it wasn't convincing.
ahaha lols
uhm Amour please feel free to http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/ your gear with current refines and all for us :Pi like potato0 -
"Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
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Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
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Sold it for 50m lol. +20 hp , +1% less damage and +1% crit isn't worth it. I'd rather +10 my items and get mad hp"Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
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Amour - Lost City wrote: »
Lord. lol I'd say that's fairly remarkable.
I have crappy gear, but I'm on track to hit 500 magic at level 100 (my goal). To be honest, IMO all other considerations are secondary. But, I am a hard headed fool of a fun loving wizard.
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one thing Amour..
this is your original:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5dcbc561adfa403d
this is effective refining with 10star dragon orbs
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ced9ef664bde3da3
before you refine all parts to 8 or 9, refine single ones to 10, its more HP in the end with the same cost xd
ijs ^^
(edit info: 10star dragon orbs are cheaper then combined1star-orbs at refine-grade 8)i like potato0 -
For crying out loud I just remembered why I hate D.Orbs being boutique exclusive, gold is at 500-600k these days no way I am going to waste my money on that... and then they'll be out of sale so I have to wait even more after stocking on gold. b:angry0
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Yeah it does suck gold is so high due to the combined pack and orb sale. Gonna have to wait till next 10 star sale to plus 10 my wep and stock up on gold after this event.0
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I like uniform +'s"Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
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![http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4183/sgtdrunkramble.png[/SIGPIC]](http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/4183/sgtdrunkramble.png[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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