Sage / Demon question

rottsx2
rottsx2 Posts: 29 Arc User
edited October 2010 in Barbarian
Hello all

I have read some good posts on here about your choices to go sage or demon. The builds and advantages each have to offer and what other peoples likes and dislikes are helpful.
My question is what if u don't plan on doing TW? What path then? I don't plan on doing tw
and went the sage route. I am sort of questioning this now. From reading posts on here, Should I have went demon knowing I am not going to do TW?
Thanks for the replies
Post edited by rottsx2 on

Comments

  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Demon is basically for pking, Sage is basically for TW. Sage can be good in pking, Demon can be good in TW, but generally it's the other way round.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • HippiePanda - Sanctuary
    HippiePanda - Sanctuary Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    It depends what you like to do at TW.

    As Catapull barb you should be sage to have more HP and defence. You are not able to attack when you pull a catapult - so demon doesnt help really.

    When you like to attack the opponents base (crystal) you should be definetely demon barb to deal more damage, buff ppl with crit rate and Chi (Demon buffs required). Further your own crit rate is higher than the crit rate of sage barbs which is always important as attacker.
  • GohRaL - Sanctuary
    GohRaL - Sanctuary Posts: 883 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    If you didnt plan to do TW and went sage anyway it means that you liked that cultivation over the demon one...


    SAGE: cat-puller in TW, best tank cuz of HP, nice steady dmg and passive, unless u get ganked unsinkable when charmed

    DEMON: oriented to PK and ninja arma in TW, good tank cuz of full dmg and faster CD, great spike damage and crit rate with active and passive skills
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)


    >RETIRED<
  • Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide
    Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide Posts: 770 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    GohRal sum it up quite nice there.

    If not interested in TW though, Fuzzy would suggest demon. When you reach the "end game" instances such as Nirvana or possibly 3-3, there is a good chance you might not end up tanking 100% of the time. For that reason, while we are much needed up to around 95+ to tank all, it does change.

    A demon barb can tank pve every bit as good as a sage, but when you are not filling the tank roll towards end game play, it may be more handy to have the higher damage output instead of the defensive/hp bonus from being sage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    The game killed the concept of Sage off, Sage is only great for TWing as a cata-barb if anything. I was Sage once, but swapped over to Demon.

    Now that 4.0+ aps pwns endgame, Barbs don't tank, unless you have -int too.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    b:flowerHave a Techno Rave Flower!b:flower

    -Self-Proclaimed TW commentator of HT-
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  • Skippy - Dreamweaver
    Skippy - Dreamweaver Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    they took our jobs >:O ~ South park redneck
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    SAGE: cat-puller in TW, best tank cuz of HP, nice steady dmg and passive, unless u get ganked unsinkable when charmed

    DEMON: oriented to PK and ninja arma in TW, good tank cuz of full dmg and faster CD, great spike damage and crit rate with active and passive skills

    thats the general concensus, however I've personally been curious as to what the differences would be between sage and demon where SSI is concerned. based off of this build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=34aca7b876c755e6 , if you just change the passives and buffs from sage to demon, the differences are 1% defense and about 2.2k hp only. With that much HP, 2.2k isnt much to worry about IMO and would still be a damn good cata puller, missing only 1% pdef. of course... that build is +12 all around, so its already got insane defense. but even without the ornaments +12 its still showing a difference of only 1% while buffed. OTOH if not buffed with golden bell and vanguard, sage barb gets about 3% extra pdef. so i guess what it comes down to is.. would you rather have about 5% extra HP and 1-3% extra pdef, or would you rather have higher damage, and make up the defenses and HP with shards and refines? IMO theres not too much difference between level 10 barb attacks and the sage/demon versions except for a select few. I personally think the passives and buffs have better "upgrades" to them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide
    Fuzzy_Wuzzy - Raging Tide Posts: 770 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    ...that build is +12 all around... but even without the ornaments +12 its still showing a difference of only 1% while buffed...

    Not to be critical of Baalbak, Fuzzy play with the calc too from time to time, but is it really work looking at a full +12 build for sage/demon comparison? Me sure that not the norm. Perhaps run the numbers again with +7ish refine since that does seem to be the true average?


    ...just a thought.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Not to be critical of Baalbak, Fuzzy play with the calc too from time to time, but is it really work looking at a full +12 build for sage/demon comparison? Me sure that not the norm. Perhaps run the numbers again with +7ish refine since that does seem to be the true average?


    ...just a thought.

    oh lol thats not a build i came up with at all tbh. that one was posted in another thread. a build i was considering working towards was actually: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=18964d6998d2463b (here ive changed the gear refines to +7) as you can see there when you change the demon bki to sage, the defense difference is only 1% when cleric and bm buffs are applied. without cleric and bm buffs its sitting at 77% demon, 80% sage. HP difference (w/o blood bath applied) in sage true form 18843, in demon true form: 17790

    p.attack differences:
    self buffed sage barb in tiger: 4737-9290 (standing 5331-10448)
    self buffed demon barb: 5044-9879
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • Pint - Dreamweaver
    Pint - Dreamweaver Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Really looking at those numbers Baal, it seems there isnt a huge difference at all.

    Would seem to me that the end choice for each player is prefference alone. Skill of player is still the most important no matter sage of demon, So I would say go with what your heart tells you and just master that side of the cultivation and skills.

    Pint
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    true there isnt much difference at all when just those stats are considered, however the demon cultivation has a lot more damage potential in both forms beyond that of the sage cultivation when crit rate in taken into account from both passive and active skills. IE.. demon sunder gives 5 seconds of 100% critical attack rate (imagine demon spark -> chi siphon -> demon sunder) if youve got enough -interval stacked you could potentially deal up to 10 critical demon sparked attacks in a row. That doesn't touch the damage potential of other classes IMO, but for a axe build barb its a lot. Then for human form, bestial onslaught adds 35% critical rate for 6 seconds with an 8 second cool down. With the build linked above, thats a nearly constant 65% critical rate for demon barb.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..
  • rottsx2
    rottsx2 Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Again, thanks for the replies. Hopefully this will answer questions for others that are in smaller factions that do not want to TW . I am on the harshlands server, dont Pk ppl unless i get attacked ( like last night, so sorry for that zulu with her nix..haha) I help out in bh,fb etc when i can for whoever needs help. I just enjoy the game for what it is. I am lvl 92, unbuffed in tiger form, my hp is 14069, true form 10188..when buffed true form is 13099 (have the sage book) tiger buffed is 16980. I think i would lose about 1200 in hp if i were to switch to demon. Which i can make up with shards when i go to end game gear.

    Thanks all. great replies! much appreciated!!
  • KennyC - Lost City
    KennyC - Lost City Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Has anyone calculated what is the neccesary base attack in which sage barbs masteries and buffs increase the attack enough to outdamage a demon barb? (excluding crit) Not that good with mathb:surrender

    Edit: I also played with the calculator, stateed every stat point into strength and used nirvana g15 polehammer to see the differences when only self buffed, only 1k difference between the two if i rember correctly, attack was at 30kish. Also by damage i mean pvp damge.
    +1 post
  • Baalbak - Dreamweaver
    Baalbak - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,624 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Has anyone calculated what is the neccesary base attack in which sage barbs masteries and buffs increase the attack enough to outdamage a demon barb? (excluding crit) Not that good with mathb:surrender

    Edit: I also played with the calculator, stateed every stat point into strength and used nirvana g15 polehammer to see the differences when only self buffed, only 1k difference between the two if i rember correctly, attack was at 30kish. Also by damage i mean pvp damge.

    well.. heres a sage version (with points reallocated) of the demon build i posted earlier: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8399adc0764ee879

    and for ease of access, the demon variant: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=18964d6998d2463b

    with these gear setups and leaving the dex (for crit and accuracy) alone, the sage barb now has more HP (slightly) and P.attack (slightly) than the demon variant. Note however that in both builds, blood bath from the respective cultivation is applied. Without blood bath, the demon barb has more HP than the sage barb does, both in tiger and standing. Differences in crit rate is 9% extra to the demon. OTOH, the sage barb has ~600 - 1200 more physical attack base while standing up as opposed to the demon barb.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Retired..