Almost broke 100k

well those people were idiots, 100K+ is common on a wizard.

tweakz wrote: »

200K+ is common on veno

no it isnt.

veno skills are a joke compared to wizard ones.

compare this (Water damage equal to base magic damage plus 500% of weapon magic
plus 13955.0.) which they commonly triple spark as a sage prior to casting this.

to

(300% of weapon magic damage as well as another 6606.0)

this is why we see wizards doing 5 digit normal damage in pvp, whereas veno only sees that after a heavily invested crit.

dumb butt is two words, or one with two B's, bro.

A match made in heaven.

Silest - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is why I should just quit playing venomancer. Because despite having 430 mag, I'm freaking weak, only doing 24k crits. Or maybe its cause I'm not packing a +12 weapon.

And tweakz you better back off and not say anything to me about this post.

I broke 100k with a +5 wep as a HA/AA veno. So, I'm pretty sure you could do more.

But, my hypothetical theory is that crit must have something to do with luck or the ppl your surrounded by. b:surrender

Here's my story, lmao...

It seems whenever im in a squad with a certain group of friends, I crit highs like no tomorrow. However if it's a random group, my crits aren't high.

Maybe somewhere in my mind I trust the cleric I'm with to heal me if i get aggro and keep it or the barb to take it back,.... while in random squads I don't trust the cleric to do that, or the barb to get aggro back. So maybe I'm subconsciously lowering my crits. (My playstyle doesn't change between squads.)

So my conclusion is: find a group of ppl you fully and subconsciously trust to squad with regularly, and maybe you'll get alot of lucky high crits. b:chuckle

^That was a sad and pathetic argument, I know... but it's a very true story for me b:surrender

Over 100k (look at the red marked area) on 102 boss. Back then, I was heavy veno.


http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab200/eftg86/2009-12-2211-04-17.jpg

Tweakz - WHY are you? Seriously.

As for the crits - 24k seems a bit low, but I don't see how you break 100k.

(I can GET to 50k, if the mindbreak effect lands and I crit - add amp damage and you're now at 60k - where does the rest of it come from?)

Edit: Duh. Heavens flame stacks. Stupid me, that's 100k for a well timed crit.
Not seeing 200k, but maybe the demon skills and 20 levels will add enough.

I have a question considering all these crits. xD

My highest crit on a [?] TT2-3 boss with Amp + Tangling Mire was 6.2k and my highest crit on Pole and Nob were only close 22k b:surrender (I really don't know if that's good or weak...but meh.. xD)

But...when I went to weddings and attacked the Jealous Ex...my crit was 60k o____o'

I'm wondering is it because the boss is a low level (forgot the exact level) or because of all those other high leveled people that were with me and had debuffs on the boss?

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tweakz - WHY are you? Seriously.

As for the crits - 24k seems a bit low, but I don't see how you break 100k.

(I can GET to 50k, if the mindbreak effect lands and I crit - add amp damage and you're now at 60k - where does the rest of it come from?)

Edit: Duh. Heavens flame stacks. Stupid me, that's 100k for a well timed crit.
Not seeing 200k, but maybe the demon skills and 20 levels will add enough.

100k+ soloing in Eden w/o bm,sin,etc. Not even using EP. Keep up those vit builds TearValerin promotes! -lol

I have..427mag. And 46 vit. I had 50, but eh... If it were possible, I'd do away with ALL my strength.

well higest crit i ever have seen is 450k o.o idk how 2 get so hige probably on low lvl mob xD

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

While everyone is free to develop their character as they wish, I would caution against focusing too much on maximizing one single aspect of your character such as mag.

matk goes as:
matk = (1 + mag/100) * (level + weapon_attack + equipment_attack)

Let's assume you have a TT90 wheel of denied fate since that's high on everyone's drool list while still being attainable. It has 562.5 average weapon magic attack. Let's also assume you have two demon's heart rings since that has higher matk (91) than base L88 3-star rings (77 equip attack). Throw in a flawless sapphire shard (25 equip attack) and say you refine to a modest +2 (40 equip attack).

matk = (1 + 427/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 25 + 40 + 2*91) = 4875.3
Set this as the baseline case.

Say you were somehow able to dump all your excess vit into mag (from 46 to 3), taking you up to 470 mag. How much would that improve your matk?
matk = (1 + 470/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 25 + 40 + 2*91) = 5262.1 (7.9% improvement)

Now, instead, say you refine your weapon to +5 (114 equip attack).
matk = (1 + 427/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 25 + 114 + 2*91) = 5276.4 (8.2% improvement)

What if you camped AH and found two decent 3-star level 88 rings with +21 and +24 matk mods (122 total).
matk = (1 + 427/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 25 + 40 + 2*122) = 5211.3 (6.9% improvement)

How about if you switched to a perfect sapphire?
matk = (1 + 427/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 40 + 40 + 2*91) = 4956.6 (1.7% improvement)

How about if you added a second socket with another flawless shard?
matk = (1 + 427/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 2*25 + 40 + 2*91) = 5010.8 (2.8% improvement)


Put another way, go back to the baseline case:
matk = (1 + 427/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 25 + 40 + 2*91) = 4875.3

The left side and right side operate independently of each other and multiply the total, so you can look at them separately.

Adding 1 mag gives a
(1+428/100) / (1+427/100) = 1.001898 = 0.19% improvement to matk.

Adding 1 level or 1 weapon attack or 1 equipment magic attack gives a
(90+562.5+25+40+2*91+1) / (90+562.5+25+40+2*91) = 1.001112 = 0.11% improvement to matk.

In other words, in your case a ring which gives 2 extra matk is more valuable than one which gives +1 mag. Pretty sobering when you consider that on level 88 rings, typical adds are +21 matk (5.1% improvement) vs. +5 mag (3.7% improvement). You definitely should be looking for +matk mods on your rings, not +mag.

On top of that, since sparks go on the left side with mag, that means having high mag score does not increase your sparked damage in the slightest. A HA/LA build with just 3 mag per level gains just as much damage from sparking as a pure mag Arcane build. In fact, a HA/LA build compensating for low mag by loading up equipment attack will gain more damage from sparking than a pure mag Arcane build.

And just to stay on topic, I had a 51k melee hit triple sparked and self-debuffed (Amp, EP, armor break). Very close to my theoretical max of 53k at the time. If a BM had been along to HF, that would've been a 102k hit. But it was on a BH79 boss, not a level 100 like the OP's.

Does the above eqaution work for physical attacks as well, substituing physical attacks and strength into the equation that is?

tweakz wrote: »

Non pure mag = needing to use pots also to keep up dps which equates to ongoing expense.

Are you talking high mag increasing the amount of mp you gain back from a Soul Transfusion? First, the extra ~25% mp a pure mag has means I have to use an extra yuanxiao every 3-4 min to keep up. Over an hour, that's a whopping 9-12k in cost. Whoop de doo.

Second, if you're heavy, you can melee and do about the same DPS as pure mag while only having to use mana for Amp and myriad. So your mana costs are actually lower than the pure mag's.

+matk on rings / ornaments = sacrificing -ch.

Ah, glad you mentioned that. I'd forgotten about it in my original post. Use L88 3-star rings (+77 matk) as a baseline since you're highly unlikely to find -6% channel rings with +matk, unless you pay for lunar rings:
matk = (1 + 427/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 25 + 40 + 2*77) = 4669.33

Switching one ring for a L88 3-star with a +matk mods giving 122 matk (leaving the other ring at 77 matk):
matk = (1 + 427/100) * (90 + 562.5 + 25 + 40 + 77 + 122) = 4967.43 (6.4% improvement)

Now, instead, use a L88 3-star ring with -6% channel. Your matk remains the same as the base case, all that happens is you can squeeze out spells more quickly. Say you're at 30% channel (I'll take that as a typical amount - the higher your channeling the more benefit you gain from extra channeling). Adding a -6% channel ring to a Ironwood + Lucky + 4xVenomous cycle decreases channel+cast time from 11.9 to 11.36 sec. A 4.8% improvement to overall damage. Spell damage is partly based on matk, partly some fixed constants. So a 4.8% improvement over the above spell cycle with 4669 matk correlates to a 7.1% improvement in matk.

So going from 77 to 122 matk on one of your rings yields about the same improvement to DPS as adding -6% channel to the original ring at a lot less cost. See, where channeling helps most is in your reaction time. You were casting a spell, but suddenly your pet gets hit. You cancel your spell and fire a heal. Channeling lets you squeeze off that heal quicker. That's why it's very popular in PvP - so you can spam off spells as quickly as possible in response to changing situations

In PvE, channeling also helps your DPS, but in terms of damage they're not much better than more easily obtainable +matk mods. (They help a lot more at healing since after a certain point you heal more quickly than a boss attacks, meaning you always land a heal in between hits.) Now, if you can get -6% channel with decent matk like on the lunar rings, then that's a different story.

I should also point out that piling on channeling burns mana more quickly, since you were so concerned above about extra expense from excessive mana usage.

+matk on rings vs +mag = again less MP, mprecov, and mdef.

The amounts of those you get from +mag on your ring is so small it's almost negligible.

A 7.9% improvement on top of the other improvements can make a difference of 2 hit kill vs 3 hit kills or even 4 vs 3 which is a major advantage when AoE grinding. (Saving 1/4 or 1/3 the time vs 7.9% of the ttk as well as taking far fewer hits if any).

That's only if the 7.9% improvement takes you over the threshold needed to make a 3 hit kill a 2 hit kill. The same can be said of all the other % improvements, including the one from extra +matk. On average, a 7.9% increase in damage will take you across that threshold 7.9% of the time.

Anyhow, my point wasn't that one of these is more important than the others. My point was that they're all important. And designing your build to concentrate on just one while ignoring the others is a poor way to improve the effectiveness of your character.

I should also point out that piling on channeling burns mana more quickly, since you were so concerned above about extra expense from excessive mana usage.

Was I so concerned or were you just ignorant of it? Increasing the level of your skills burns mana quicker. -Whoop de doo

Are you talking high mag increasing the amount of mp you gain back from a Soul Transfusion?

You're again ignoring many other factors.

The amounts of those you get from +mag on your ring is so small it's almost negligible.

Yes, on my single ring I gain a mere 210 matk, a mere 144 MP, a mere 79 mdef and probably an insignificant mp recov.

I should stat vit (for the meager amount of HP we get from it), imbue turquoise and refine ornaments for mdef rather than refine armor for HP and imbue for hp/pdef. I should also use +matk and mp recov pots to keep up with the inferior pure mags. b:chuckle

I hope PWI is paying you promoters of fail builds.